Hey look! A question about writing!

[lovecraft68]

I'm daring to intrude upon the all the GB style threads that have been going through here lately with a writing question. Specifically about POV.

I am two thirds of the way through a full length BDSM novel. The book will consists of 5 parts. I have completed three and am partway through four.

The basic premise of the book revolves around a secret group that consists of successful, beautiful professionals who are also sexual dominants/deviants. There are 12 members (but groups spread out around the country this book's group are the east coast sect) and they are all about advancing each others careers as well as meeting once a month for some "home videos" and some sex games.

Part one is done from The POV of Justine who is the Mistress of the group. During this part we meet two of the other members Mark& Alex. This part ends with Alex saying he has found their new female member and them debating whether or not to giver her a cake walk or hardcore initiation into the group.

Part's 2/3 are from Allison's POV, she is the new recruit and these parts consist of her being approached about the group, her initiation and afterwards how the group is already beginning to advance her career. Through her pov we meet 2 more members Vicky/Amado.

Part 4 goes back to Justine and how she deals with something that went wrong after Allison's initiation.

So now I go to part five which is going to be a hard section because I now have a "meeting" and we meet the rest of the group. So for a couple of chapters I am going to be juggling 12 characters. This is of course Allison's debut to the group where she is introduced to everyone.


My question is I am torn on whose pov for this? Part of me thinks Justine as she is the leader of the group so the obvious choice of who should be "seeing" the meeting (I am writing 3rd person BTW).

But here is the thing. I have introduced the reader to 6 of the 12 members, but now you meet the other six. This means physical descriptions and something about them.

They will one by one introduce themselves to Allison which gives the excuse for them to say something in their own words about who they are.

On that note I now wonder if it should be Allison's pov as Justine already knows what these people look like so she would not describe them physically to the reader, but Allison would as it is the first time she is seeing them. I also think that it is a better perspective of the group to have it seen through the eyes of the newbie.

Any advice here?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Sorry, 3 paragraphs into your deluge I got bored.

 

[lovecraft68]

Sorry, 3 paragraphs into your deluge I got bored.

That's okay, I'm looking for advice from authors, not idiots with ADD.

 

[sr71plt]

As long as you keep them sectionalized, you can do that chapter from as many different perspectives as you like.

 

[lovecraft68]

As long as you keep them sectionalized, you can do that chapter from as many different perspectives as you like.

You mean bounce between the two within that part?

Justine opening the meeting then switching off to Allison as she enters the room?

 

[sr71plt]

You mean bounce between the two within that part?

Justine opening the meeting then switching off to Allison as she enters the room?

You can do that. I do that with a coauthor and haven't received any complaints about it. You just have to be careful it's quite clear whose eyes it's being seen through. We usually do that with titling, or getting enough identifying information into the first couple of sentences so the reader knows.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'm daring to intrude upon the all the GB style threads that have been going through here lately with a writing question. Specifically about POV.

I am two thirds of the way through a full length BDSM novel. The book will consists of 5 parts. I have completed three and am partway through four.

The basic premise of the book revolves around a secret group that consists of successful, beautiful professionals who are also sexual dominants/deviants. There are 12 members (but groups spread out around the country this book's group are the east coast sect) and they are all about advancing each others careers as well as meeting once a month for some "home videos" and some sex games.

Part one is done from The POV of Justine who is the Mistress of the group. During this part we meet two of the other members Mark& Alex. This part ends with Alex saying he has found their new female member and them debating whether or not to giver her a cake walk or hardcore initiation into the group.

Part's 2/3 are from Allison's POV, she is the new recruit and these parts consist of her being approached about the group, her initiation and afterwards how the group is already beginning to advance her career. Through her pov we meet 2 more members Vicky/Amado.

Part 4 goes back to Justine and how she deals with something that went wrong after Allison's initiation.

So now I go to part five which is going to be a hard section because I now have a "meeting" and we meet the rest of the group. So for a couple of chapters I am going to be juggling 12 characters. This is of course Allison's debut to the group where she is introduced to everyone.


My question is I am torn on whose pov for this? Part of me thinks Justine as she is the leader of the group so the obvious choice of who should be "seeing" the meeting (I am writing 3rd person BTW).

But here is the thing. I have introduced the reader to 6 of the 12 members, but now you meet the other six. This means physical descriptions and something about them.

They will one by one introduce themselves to Allison which gives the excuse for them to say something in their own words about who they are.

On that note I now wonder if it should be Allison's pov as Justine already knows what these people look like so she would not describe them physically to the reader, but Allison would as it is the first time she is seeing them. I also think that it is a better perspective of the group to have it seen through the eyes of the newbie.

Any advice here?

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

You are really Mikey2much, ain't cha?

This reads exactly like his little fantasy about his "lots of meetings" with a bunch of FemDom lesbians in Philly.

Does that mean when he said he had to leave to go to work that his job is being you????

If so, it SUCKS to be him cuz his job really is the pits!!!!

 

[talismania]

You mean bounce between the two within that part?

Justine opening the meeting then switching off to Allison as she enters the room?

Use scene breaks to indicate change from one POV character to another. Or you can attempt omniscient POV, but I don't recommend that unless you've studied what that means and how to do it without turning your scene into a head-hopping fest.

 

[lovecraft68]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

You are really Mikey2much, ain't cha?

This reads exactly like his little fantasy about his "lots of meetings" with a bunch of FemDom lesbians in Philly.

Does that mean when he said he had to leave to go to work that his job is being you????

If so, it SUCKS to be him cuz his job really is the pits!!!!

What the hell are you talking about? Unlike you I don't feel the need to assume the identity of anyone else. (never mind disrespect the dead by spewing bile under their name)

I also have no interest femdom lesbians I like my fem's to dom men thank you very much.

But hey I do have a lesbian scene coming up! Maybe you can help me with it.

Oh, no, wait a minute, you don't write.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, no, wait a minute, you don't write.

Really being a bearded 350-pound semi driver named Bubba, I don't think (s)he's a lesbian either.

 

[lovecraft68]

You can do that. I do that with a coauthor and haven't received any complaints about it. You just have to be careful it's quite clear whose eyes it's being seen through. We usually do that with titling, or getting enough identifying information into the first couple of sentences so the reader knows.

That's a problem I have been having. I'm not co authoring and I have been working my ass off to have Justine and Allison think and act differently. I keep going back and editing dialogue where I catch them talking like each other.

Justine is older and very confident, Allison is hot shit to her little boy toys but out of her league and nervous here.

The separation would be easy enough, the reader would know it's Allison now as I would take it from her entering the room we were already in with Justine.

I hadn't thought of splitting for some reason. I guess because so far each part was clearly defined and these two have not been in the same place at the same time.

 

[lovecraft68]

Really being a bearded 350-pound semi driver named Bubba, I don't think (s)he's a lesbian either.

I'd challenge you on that, but that's a "Bet" I wouldn't want to take.

 

[PennLady]

I agree with SR and talis -- so long as you make it clear, somehow, whose POV it is, it shouldn't matter how often you switch.

 

[carlieplum]

Start writing it with the split POV. If it gets too confusing, you can go back and rework it as Allison, and you'll have much of the work already done.

 

[sr71plt]

That's a problem I have been having. I'm not co authoring and I have been working my ass off to have Justine and Allison think and act differently. I keep going back and editing dialogue where I catch them talking like each other.

Justine is older and very confident, Allison is hot shit to her little boy toys but out of her league and nervous here.

The separation would be easy enough, the reader would know it's Allison now as I would take it from her entering the room we were already in with Justine.

I hadn't thought of splitting for some reason. I guess because so far each part was clearly defined and these two have not been in the same place at the same time.

Just recently published a coauthored one where the separation is by chapters, but in the last chapter, both have a go at it. Just sectionalized them. I wouldn't do it every other sentence. But it can be done every couple of paragraphs, if you need it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Since you're writing in third person, you can probably get away with a little bit of head hopping.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

It depends, in my stories I do 'chapter breaks' whenever a bit of time or some boring events passes. I just put a
---

To break it up. Stay in third person and switch perspective for every chapter break.

 

[lance gt]

I use a break line between POV's, just to give the reader a cue for the change. The difference is clear in how the story is told after it.

 

[Handley_Page]

'She really is quite pretty," thought Justine as Alison walked through the door.

Alison looked up and saw Justine looking at her with a strange smile.

Or have I missed something ?

 

[lovecraft68]

'She really is quite pretty," thought Justine as Alison walked through the door.

Alison looked up and saw Justine looking at her with a strange smile.

Or have I missed something ?

For a line or two but throughout an entire chapter or series of chapters it would make my head spin.

 

[estragon]

More as a reader than a writer (I wouldn't dare try to do multiple POVs), I'd be afraid that the story would become a mixed doubles tennis match and I'd lose the focus. I'd recommend clear delineation of whose POV is up, and stick with that person's POV at least for a few sentences.

 

[lovecraft68]

More as a reader than a writer (I wouldn't dare try to do multiple POVs), I'd be afraid that the story would become a mixed doubles tennis match and I'd lose the focus. I'd recommend clear delineation of whose POV is up, and stick with that person's POV at least for a few sentences.

That's pretty much what I meant in my reply to Handley. It would be way to much to keep going back and forth.

 

[XXplorher]

Any advice here?

So now I go to part five which is going to be a hard section because I now have a "meeting" and we meet the rest of the group. So for a couple of chapters I am going to be juggling 12 characters. This is of course Allison's debut to the group where she is introduced to everyone.

You built it that way, mate. Own it.


They will one by one introduce themselves to Allison


Dont worry about it until then. That totally jives with a readers ability to absorb. Yer good, no issue there.


which gives the excuse for them to say something in their own words about who they are.


Aye. You already know the answer.



Overall question:

"Part one is done from The POV of Justine who is the Mistress of the group"

Why is that? Your situational probelm is right there. You open with one particlular POV and then you want to jump around from others? Nada, that won't work. Well, it COULD work... if you want to be awesome.
What do you want? Why do you want that. Alternate perspectives? Does that serve the story? Does it serve a - or several - characters?

You've sort ofd thought it out, but not fully.

Sort it out fully. Know what you want at the end of it all. Know from which your speaking from. You're NOT speaking from '12 juggling characters'. There is a consistency within them - and that's where you're speaking from.

Honestly, I would ask you to ask the characters you've created - to know what to do. They will tell you.
I also know that's a 'perfect world' scenario that might not be appreciated...


I just watched Hunger Games last night. I liked it (I thought the filmakers made some brave choices). What resonated through my mind, continually, was that... where Lord of the Flies is a grand debate on society in general - this was a through-that-dead-arrow... kill on Morality. Straight and true. Therefore, the 'teller' must continually affirm that our hero can navigate a morally challenged scenario... Lest a hero throw away... an audience. Consider that, eh.

My bad. You didn't ask all that.

If you want to spin POV like that (something I've done, succesfully here), you MUST retain legitimacy. You'll have to create that beforehand. You'll need a plan. You'll need to prove to yourSELF, why it's reasonable. And if you'd done that, you would not be asking.

Go to work, mate.

 

[lovecraft68]

So now I go to part five which is going to be a hard section because I now have a "meeting" and we meet the rest of the group. So for a couple of chapters I am going to be juggling 12 characters. This is of course Allison's debut to the group where she is introduced to everyone.

You built it that way, mate. Own it.


They will one by one introduce themselves to Allison


Dont worry about it until then. That totally jives with a readers ability to absorb. Yer good, no issue there.


which gives the excuse for them to say something in their own words about who they are.


Aye. You already know the answer.



Overall question:

"Part one is done from The POV of Justine who is the Mistress of the group"

Why is that? Your situational probelm is right there. You open with one particlular POV and then you want to jump around from others? Nada, that won't work. Well, it COULD work... if you want to be awesome.
What do you want? Why do you want that. Alternate perspectives? Does that serve the story? Does it serve a - or several - characters?

You've sort ofd thought it out, but not fully.

Sort it out fully. Know what you want at the end of it all. Know from which your speaking from. You're NOT speaking from '12 juggling characters'. There is a consistency within them - and that's where you're speaking from.

Honestly, I would ask you to ask the characters you've created - to know what to do. They will tell you.
I also know that's a 'perfect world' scenario that might not be appreciated...


I just watched Hunger Games last night. I liked it (I thought the filmakers made some brave choices). What resonated through my mind, continually, was that... where Lord of the Flies is a grand debate on society in general - this was a throught that dead arrowed on Morality. Straight and true. Therefore, the 'teller' must continually affirm that our hero can navigate a morally challenged scenario... Lest a hero throw away... an audience. Consider that, eh.

My bad. You didn't ask all that.

If you want to spin POV like that (something I've done, succesfully here), you MUST retain legitimacy. You'll have to create that beforehand. You'll need a plan. You'll need to prove to yourSELF, why it's reasonable. And if you'd done that, you would not be asking.

Go to work, mate.

Nice post, thank you. Although I will pass on hunger games myself.

One thing I'll explain is that it is a must for the two pov's (well to me anyway) Justine shows you the group. The book starts with her and another member debating how one of the women will be punished for breaking a rule.

during this debate a lot about the group is hinted at and bits and pieces learned. It then goes into a hardcore sex scene where the woman is punished, by the man who ends up initiating Allison.

When I shift to Allison there is a sex scene where she dominates this young guy she has been "training" for awhile. she is then approached about the group and figures she can handle an initiation because there is not a man she cannot handle. So this kind of builds up to the clash between the two at her initiation.

I'm comfortable with everything except the one particular scene in question. But going by most here can make it easier by breaking it down a little further and doing some back and forth.

 

[XXplorher]

>One thing I'll explain is that it is a must for the two pov's (well to me anyway) Justine shows you the group. The book starts with her and another member debating how one of the women will be punished for breaking a rule.

Okay then - that is our 'carved in stone' observance. That's who we see it from... there IS no other POV.

Unless you're awesome. ; )

[edit: I didn't read that properly. You're saying we're initiated by 2 disparate opinions? The other Member is afforded just as much importance as Justine? From a 'Tell' perspective? That might be the key to you earning allowance from the reader later on.]


>during this debate a lot about the group is hinted at and bits and pieces learned.

Okay. That sounds interesting. I get it. I see what you want to do... maybe.



>When I shift to Allison there is a sex scene where she dominates this young guy she has been "training" for awhile.

The manner in which you make that shift will absolutely define you as amazingly astute - or a hack.

You need to pull that off, big time. If your question is 'how to pull that off'? That's for you to figure out, mate (otherwise you'll owe me money). Enjoy the navigation. That's the fun part.

You've built yourself something worth working on. Get it right, mate. Solve that problem. It's worth it!


But going by most here...

Don't do that.

Do you want to be 'most'?

Judging by what you're saying you're trying to do with that... you DON'T want to be most. So don't be.

A lot of people will demand you stay within a box, else they can't deal. Recognize the difference between that and a useful opionion.


Hammer that thing out, mate.