Hey Jealousy

[carsonshepherd]

Do you feel it?

If you do, do you admit it?

Do you feel like it's a form of control, or just a way for someone to show they care?

Personally, on the rare occasions I feel a pang of jealousy I'll deny it, even to myself.

 

[zeb1094]

I used to get jealous when I was young and newly wed.

Now thirtysome odd years later I don't have the energy to be jealous.

And looking back (hindsight is 20/20) I think to myself what the hell good did it do to be jealous, she still with me!

 

[logophile]

I so rarely feel jealous that I could probably tell you every time it's happened to me and it would go so fast you wouldn't even get bored.
That being said, I will add that most of the times it's happened was in my relationship - but you know all about that one - that chick was like heroine.
She was also the first person I ever dated that was jealous. I think maybe one person's jealousy begets the other's.
Or I could smack-talking again.
It happens.

I've missed you, by the way.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I so rarely feel jealous that I could probably tell you every time it's happened to me and it would go so fast you wouldn't even get bored.
That being said, I will add that most of the times it's happened was in my relationship - but you know all about that one - that chick was like heroine.
She was also the first person I ever dated that was jealous. I think maybe one person's jealousy begets the other's.
Or I could smack-talking again.
It happens.

I've missed you, by the way.

Aww! me too!

The only time I get jealous is when I think someone should be paying attention to me and they're paying attention to someone else. But that's because I'm a spoiled brat.

 

[logophile]

Aww! me too!

The only time I get jealous is when I think someone should be paying attention to me and they're paying attention to someone else. But that's because I'm a spoiled brat.

I don't know that I'd say that about you.
I think you're sweet.
But you knew that already.

 

[carsonshepherd]

I don't know that I'd say that about you.
I think you're sweet.
But you knew that already.

I'm a sweet brat.

 

[sophia jane]

Yes, I have a tendency toward jealousy. But I have to admit that it's mostly cuz of my own insecurities, not a control issue. I don't have any desire to control anyone, etc, nor am I particularly possessive. I'm just terribly insecure.

 

[BlackShanglan]

*nuzzles* to Carson.

I'm with Sophia on this. When I do feel jealousy, it's essentially insecurity. It is also, in my case - and I sure it is not in Sophia's! - that little whiny child voice within - "What about meeeee?" Fortunately, that phrase is of great aid to me. I find it laughable and extraordinarily unattractive, so when I start to feel a bit jealous in any circumstance - romantic, professional, what have you - I nudge myself with it. It is my equivalent of Sherlock Holmes asking Watson to whisper the word "Norbury" in his ear if Holmes seems to be getting a bit full of himself. It works fairly nicely; generally I can laugh at myself, and then turn my attention to either being genuinely happy for someone who has done well or looking for ways to give my own life a boost.

Shanglan

 

[fieryjen]

*nuzzles* to Carson.

I'm with Sophia on this. When I do feel jealousy, it's essentially insecurity. It is also, in my case - and I sure it is not in Sophia's! - that little whiny child voice within - "What about meeeee?" Fortunately, that phrase is of great aid to me. I find it laughable and extraordinarily unattractive, so when I start to feel a bit jealous in any circumstance - romantic, professional, what have you - I nudge myself with it. It is my equivalent of Sherlock Holmes asking Watson to whisper the word "Norbury" in his ear if Holmes seems to be getting a bit full of himself. It works fairly nicely; generally I can laugh at myself, and then turn my attention to either being genuinely happy for someone who has done well or looking for ways to give my own life a boost.

Shanglan

That's a really good way of looking at it. I may have to use that for myself, when I get a bit of a jealousy fit. However, while I can snap myself out of it in some situations, in others it just doesn't work.

I have never been jealous in a relationship, but I've never really had cause to. It would really take a very inconsiderate performance by my boyfriend to get me jealous, and even then, I'm more likely to be angry.

I do feel jealousy in other situations where I wish I didn't. When my sister gets more of my parents' love because she's around them and I'm not - unfounded, and unreasonable, and it bothers me that I do feel the way I feel about it.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I do feel jealousy in other situations where I wish I didn't. When my sister gets more of my parents' love because she's around them and I'm not - unfounded, and unreasonable, and it bothers me that I do feel the way I feel about it.

You know, I very nearly added in my own post that the most difficult situation I deal with as far as jealousy goes is with my sibling. We have never been close, and it is difficult for me to be happy for my sibling's joys. It's always a struggle to overcome years of ingrained resentment and dislike. It's an ugly thing to admit, but there it is. Often the best I can do is remind myself how wretched a thing that is, and to feel ashamed of my uncharitable thoughts. It's harder to feel joy or pleasure.

For what it's worth, I heard a priest once give an excellent sermon on the parable of the prodigal son. His central point was that while it might at first seem unfair that the "good" son got less reward than the prodigal, the chief point of joy was not simply that the prodigal son had returned, but that he had changed and become one with the others - thinking of their good as well as his own, and becoming a good person. Surely, said the priest, this was indeed worth celebrating - not that the same selfish, unpleasant person had returned, but that he had been remade as well as returned. That helped me to see how I might recast my relationship with my sibling. Should the day come when I truly felt that our relationship had changed, and that my sibling had chosen to be part of that change, then indeed I would be happy. That at least is something to look forward to, if not in this life then in another.

It also helps with the jealousy issue; I just imagine that pure, idealized, wonderful Platonic ideal of a sibling having wonderful things happen and having a close and loving relationship with the rest of the family, and for that I can be happy. It helps me loosen the grip of my resentment a little, and eventually I can grudgingly concede some happiness for the actual and somewhat less ideal sibling.

Lord, though. I won't say it's not a labor.

Shanglan

 

[sophia jane]

I'm with Sophia on this.

Always nice to spend time with you, Shang.

I tend to snap myself out of it, too, and maybe I should try that whiny inner voice, too- maybe it would speed the process.

 

[fieryjen]

You know, I very nearly added in my own post that the most difficult situation I deal with as far as jealousy goes is with my sibling. We have never been close, and it is difficult for me to be happy for my sibling's joys. It's always a struggle to overcome years of ingrained resentment and dislike. It's an ugly thing to admit, but there it is. Often the best I can do is remind myself how wretched a thing that is, and to feel ashamed of my uncharitable thoughts. It's harder to feel joy or pleasure.

For what it's worth, I heard a priest once give an excellent sermon on the parable of the prodigal son. His central point was that while it might at first seem unfair that the "good" son got less reward than the prodigal, the chief point of joy was not simply that the prodigal son had returned, but that he had changed and become one with the others - thinking of their good as well as his own, and becoming a good person. Surely, said the priest, this was indeed worth celebrating - not that the same selfish, unpleasant person had returned, but that he had been remade as well as returned. That helped me to see how I might recast my relationship with my sibling. Should the day come when I truly felt that our relationship had changed, and that my sibling had chosen to be part of that change, then indeed I would be happy. That at least is something to look forward to, if not in this life then in another.

It also helps with the jealousy issue; I just imagine that pure, idealized, wonderful Platonic ideal of a sibling having wonderful things happen and having a close and loving relationship with the rest of the family, and for that I can be happy. It helps me loosen the grip of my resentment a little, and eventually I can grudgingly concede some happiness for the actual and somewhat less ideal sibling.

Lord, though. I won't say it's not a labor.

Shanglan

Thank you for this post, as it made me feel much better about admitting what I just did. I am actually fairly close with my sister, although it has always seemed to me as if she was much less interested in my life than I was in hers. Still is that way, as a matter of fact, although we get along much better now that we only see each other about once a year.

For the most part, my jealousy isn't even related to my sister directly but to the situation. My parents are very fair and considerate of our feelings,and they usually do not discriminate. However, since my interaction with them is now mostly limited to phone conversations, I just cannot get the same level of love and support I did when I was still at home. For example, I wish I was home for my birthday, and I know that they do too. When I hear about all the things they did for my sister's birthday to cheer her up and make her feel great, I do feel sad and jealous, little as I like to admit it.

 

[sophia jane]

What's the difference between jealousy and envy?
My biggest problem in being jealous is with my ex. I'm not in love with him and don't want to be married to him anymore, but it's still very difficult for me to hear about him having a life and meeting other women. I think it's because I'm envious of his freedom while I'm stuck home raising his kids. But part of me has a little "what's wrong with me?" thing happening that's definitely not pretty.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Jen, my sympathies - it's difficult to be away from one's family, especially on birthdays and things of that nature. I haven't lived near to any of my relatives for many years now, but I still miss them.

Sophia, that's an awfully good point on envy vs. jealousy. I can't really say which some of my feelings are, come to think of it - or indeed if they are really either. My dislike for my sibling stems from childhood; I am the younger of two children, and my elder sibling enjoyed tormenting me. Being older and I think the more talented at such things, my sibling was very good at not revealing these actions to my parents. Thus my feelings are complex; there's resentment not simply for the nasty, deceptive, and vicious behavior itself (which continued, in various guises, well into our college years), but also for the fact that it never played into my parents' perception of my sibling, who remains, in their eyes, a wonderful person. I'm not sure what one calls the feelings one then has at being sung that person's praises, but ... well. They're not very attractive feelings. Let us set them aside.

Your own position, Sophia, seems to me a very difficult one. I should hasten to add that I do not have children, and so have difficulty wholly understanding the feelings involved. But it seems to me very hard to be caught in that way, loving one's children and yet forced to accept on one's own all the labor and pains one had planned to share with someone else. I admire the strength of anyone who faces that situation and handles it at all. It seems to me really natural to feel hurt and angry; I'm not sure I would even call it envy. "Envy," to me, calls to mind a sort of jealous or selfish longing for things belonging to others, but in your case, it seems to me that you resent being given what belonged to him - his responsibilities in raising your children. That feeling doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Shanglan

 

[Stella_Omega]

Aww! me too!

The only time I get jealous is when I think someone should be paying attention to me and they're paying attention to someone else. But that's because I'm a spoiled brat.

Me too!
But isn't that envy, really?

jealousy, I think, is so much worse- it's the belief that you own, that you have a right to another person. True jealosy has nothing to do with circumstance, it wouldn't matter if your love object were right next to you, you would still be certain that their thoughts were straying elsewhere...
I think, anyway.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Me too!
But isn't that envy, really?

jealousy, I think, is so much worse- it's the belief that you own, that you have a right to another person. True jealosy has nothing to do with circumstance, it wouldn't matter if your love object were right next to you, you would still be certain that their thoughts were straying elsewhere...
I think, anyway.

You're thinking of Carson, aren't you? Aren't you?

 

[curious2c]

At one time I had serious 'jealous' issues. That was right after my wife had her 'indescretion'. I hadn't ever had jealousy issues before that time...and it took about eight years for those feeling to go away too.

Other than that...I've always pretty much felt that each person gets what they deserve in life...and I have no need to worry or be envious of them. For every good thing you may think that they are having there is always a host of things you may not see that subtract from that good.

Of course...for the most part I don't look at it from a negative viewpoint...as some people have wonderful lives and they most definitely deserve them too. I guess I just see that the grass isn't necessairily greener on the other side of the fence.

BUT...I am kind of jealous of a certain movie star at the moment since he is dating a kind of a crush I have...heh

 

[Stella_Omega]

You're thinking of Carson, aren't you? Aren't you?

yes, I'm thinking of Carson riding off with you into the sunset
You'd like that, wouldn't you? Even my high-barrel riding boots would just disappear in your dust.

That's the worst of it with queer folk- that are far too many permutations!

 

[Belegon]

awww, my most passionate rant.

Jealousy. Certainly, the world has greater adversaries for us to fight. Starvation, war, greed. But to me, this is the one that is most personal. Jealousy is the one that has done and continues to do the most damage to my own day to day existence.

My marriage has been the most successful and longest relationship of my life, but it is not the most formative. That was a 3 1/2 year relationship in the eighties and what drove that relationship to it's grave was jealousy.

Possessiveness is inherently tied to my perceptions of jealousy. When I think of jealousy, I think not only of the need to have something, but also of a need to deny it to others. That is where I draw a line between jealousy and envy. In an attempt to seperate the desire to experience something that another has experienced, which I do not regard as evil, from the desire to be the only one who can experience it I have placed the word "Envy" on one set of desires and the word "Jealousy" on the latter.

I think that jealousy is as great a natural enemy of love as a 747 taking off is of quiet.

 

[English Lady]

hmm, I thought i got jealous, but maybe it's more envious. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. It's mostly within my relationship with my husband. I don't think I've ever been jealous of my sister, not that i can remember anyway.

Anyhow, my husband struggles with depression and when he's at his most depressed he goes into his computer -almost literally. Day and night he'll be on his computer, he'll forsake everything else for it. I know it's a way for him to escape and I also know he doesn't do it to purposefully hurt me.

But of all the instances of jealousy I've felt (and I think I should be using the word envy,really) it's been towards his computer, feeling like I'm lower down his list of priorities.

I get over it. It doesn't help that I'm a natural born sulker and I won't confront him about it. Something small will happen to make me realise I'm beign daft. ie he'll get off his computer to hug me or play with Beth or tidy the livnig room etc and I'll realise I've been being daft again.

I think like Sophia was saying that it's my insecurity, I don't think it's a control issue. (It may partly be, though.I do like things and people to do as I think they should do *L*) Mostly it's just an issue of me feeling unwanted.

I often think of the St Francis prayer when I am struggling with something like this:

"...O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life."

It just gives me the kick in the arse i need to stop mooning about selfishly and go and do something. It always makes me feel better.

 

[Liar]

maybe it's a semantic glitch on my behalf, but I don't think of jealousity as something that negative. When I feel jealous of someone, it means I see someone elses riches/luck/happiness and think "Hey, I deserve that too." Which is a reminder for me to get off my lazy ass and go out and get it. What I'm most often jealous about is other peoples' courage and confidence, and I don't have to rob them of theirs to generate some for myself.

 

[impressive]

I'm with Bel on the jealousy/envy split (but, that's hardly surprising).

I do hear Shang's "What about meeeeeee?" whiney voice from time to time ... but it's more envy (and yes, SJ, it's rooted in that pesky insecurity) because I would not ever wish to deny someone else their love/strokes/attention.

And it is horridly unattractive, I agree. I do my best to stifle it, but it's prone to sneak under/around/through my defenses in times of stress. (When observed, friends have firm instructions to smack me upside the head & tell me to snap the fuck out of it.)

 

[carsonshepherd]

maybe it's a semantic glitch on my behalf, but I don't think of jealousity as something that negative. When I feel jealous of someone, it means I see someone elses riches/luck/happiness and think "Hey, I deserve that too." Which is a reminder for me to get off my lazy ass and go out and get it. What I'm most often jealous about is other peoples' courage and confidence, and I don't have to rob them of theirs to generate some for myself.

Liar, I really feel you're talking about envy.

envy, noun
1a. A feeling of discontent and resentment aroused by and in conjunction with desire for the possessions or qualities of another.

Whereas I am referring more to jealousy.

1. Fearful or wary of being supplanted; apprehensive of losing affection or position. 2a. Resentful or bitter in rivalry; envious: jealous of the success of others. b. Inclined to suspect rivalry. 3. Having to do with or arising from feelings of envy, apprehension, or bitterness: jealous thoughts. 4. Vigilant in guarding something: We are jealous of our good name. 5. Intolerant of disloyalty or infidelity; autocratic:

Although they can be used interchangably, they are not really the same. Jealousy, like Belegon described, is more a feeling of control and ownership over some other person, at least to some of us. If your girl gets a phone call and you start demanding who it was and why they were calling, that choked, insecure feeling you have in your gut is jealousy. If you don't have that feeling, then you are not prone to jealousy, which is more related to insecurity and a need to possess than it is to the other thing, envy.

I don't suffer from envy. Material things don't mean that much to me so I'm not covetous of what other people own. Envy can make you bitter and destroys your inner peace because you can never be content with what you have. It can also be a motivating factor too, like you said.

I completely agree with Belegon about jealousy being the enemy of love. That is a very good way of putting it. Insecurity, control and possessiveness eat away at the positive aspects of love. The basic feeling at the bottom of jealousy, in my opinion, is lack of trust, and without that solid building block love will crumble.

Very interesting thoughts on jealousy here.

 

[carsonshepherd]

Sibling rivalry is another interesting aspects of jealousy. Thanks for bringing it up, Shanglan.

My brother is one of those golden people who is the best at everything without effort. He always got perfect grades, was popular in school, and won everything and was better at everything than I was. I was the dorky geek.

Was I jealous? Looking back, I don't think so. Jealousy seemed hopeless. I would never be as good at anything as he was, so it was pointless to be envious.

Maybe if I was, it would have motivated me to achieve more.

I was somewhat jealous of my brother's relationship with our mom, but I now know that he was jealous of my closeness with our dad. So I guess it works both ways.

 

[minsue]

Carson, you've gotten the Gin Blossoms stuck in my head now. Considering I woke up with Twisted Sister wandering around in there uninvited, I suppose I owe you a thanks.

And yes, jealousy's a bitch. I keep waiting to grow out of it.