Heroes: A Marathon and a Rant

3113

Hello Summer!
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Nov 1, 2005
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Being that my husband and I are into comic books we kept getting asked about the tv series: Heroes. Finally, we got the Season 1 boxed set and had a marathon session so we could honestly give our opinion. Understand, we've read a lot of comic books, and because Heroes lifts from issues of past comics, famous and excellent ones, there were many times when we not only knew what was going to happen, but we ended up saying, "That's X-Men issue #--!". In fact, I'm not at all sure what the Watchman movie is going to do when it comes out and gets compared to Heroes which plagiarized its plot! On the whole, here is what I thought: I thought the initial episodes (disks 1-4) were very watchable, with some likeable characters and a few good spikes/twists in the story. I thought the rest (disks 4-7) were sluggish as they tried to draw out a huge conspiracy/serial killer plot (two plots I don't like anyway) into 22 episodes; I though stories grew increasingly muddled, derivative and annoyingly predictable. And the dialogue became more and more dreadful.

No need to defend the show, however, if you liked it. I do understand the enjoyablity of the "Lost" concept of strangers meeting under unique and harrowing circumstances, I understand as well that the central "Hero"--the Japanese guy named Hiro--is charming and fun, that there's some sexy ladies and cute guys, as well as the cliff-hangers and mysteries. I *get* why people may have liked this show. As a storyteller, however, I have to say that had the writers been true professionals, they would not have gotten sloppy toward the end.

Here' what I mean: In a superhero story, things usually start off good, even great, with the origin. You've got a cool tale of a person discovering that they have a power, how they deal with it, how their friends/family deal. The writing can have lots of twists and turns and surprises and creativity; best of all, you can pit them against the wimpest villains and they can still mess up, fail, botch the job. Next step: you move onto them learning how to handle the power, learning about it. All good. They can deal with mid-level villains here--learn how to escape them, fight them, survive. Cool. But once they've dealt with the origin problems and learned how to handle the superpower, what then? This is where we separate the pros from the wannabes. Typically, the wannabe cops out and uses one of the following cheats:

1) They create a super-villain who is ten times more powerful or clever or just several steps ahead of the hero. You've seen this. The hero creeps in to kill the villain...and there's a gun pointed at his head. The villain was there before him, waiting! The villain seems to know what the hero is going to do before the hero decides to do it! The problem with this is that instead of making the hero back into an underdog (he went through that phase in the origin!), he begins to look like a wimp!

2) Make the hero stupid. Oh, this is a great idea :rolleyes: That's where the viewer/reader ends up shouting at book/television/movie screen: "Why doesn't he just __________?" This is where the hero does something like: lets the villain talk him out of killing him, or hesitates, or doesn't use a power he has and gets knocked out.

3) Remove the hero's power. This is where the writer makes the hero temporarily weak--either via a reason (kryptonite) or a psychological problem (loses faith in himself). Thus, the hero's powers are conveniently taken out of play. This an be a valid measure, but it has to be done well. Do it sloppy and the viewer/reader can see exactly what you're up to...and why!

4) Threat to a loved one. One of the few valid methods--but that doesn't make it any less tiring. Villain holds a little girl hostage and hero can't use his powers or, worse, must surrender.

Heroes used ALL of these over and over again. To me, that doesn't speak well for the writers' ability to sustain their plots or characters. I understand--I really, really do!--that it's hard to work out clever plot devices to drag out a story over 22 episodes. Especially one involving people with superpowers. But I think that if a writer is going to commit to such a thing, to 22 episodes of one very looooooong story...then a writer should find away to avoid using such cliches and cheats. The ending to such stories should, somehow or other, try to be as clever and fresh as the beginnings.

Thanks or letting me rant!
 
I do kinda understand what you're saying (and indeed swallowed my immediate, impulsive, indignant and frankly, idiotic response in defence of a favoured entertainment) and can see how it might grate to a comics fan. However, I fell in love with Heroes for the same reason that I did with Buffy - the writers created real people and made me give a damn what happened next.

To be honest, you can get away with a lot of cliches if you make me feel for the people, rather than the characters.

The Earl
 
3113 said:
1) They create a super-villain who is ten times more powerful or clever or just several steps ahead of the hero. You've seen this. The hero creeps in to kill the villain...and there's a gun pointed at his head. The villain was there before him, waiting! The villain seems to know what the hero is going to do before the hero decides to do it! The problem with this is that instead of making the hero back into an underdog (he went through that phase in the origin!), he begins to look like a wimp!

2) Make the hero stupid. Oh, this is a great idea :rolleyes: That's where the viewer/reader ends up shouting at book/television/movie screen: "Why doesn't he just __________?" This is where the hero does something like: lets the villain talk him out of killing him, or hesitates, or doesn't use a power he has and gets knocked out.

3) Remove the hero's power. This is where the writer makes the hero temporarily weak--either via a reason (kryptonite) or a psychological problem (loses faith in himself). Thus, the hero's powers are conveniently taken out of play. This an be a valid measure, but it has to be done well. Do it sloppy and the viewer/reader can see exactly what you're up to...and why!

4) Threat to a loved one. One of the few valid methods--but that doesn't make it any less tiring. Villain holds a little girl hostage and hero can't use his powers or, worse, must surrender.

I hate #2 and #4 the most, with #1 coming in a distant, but still annoying third.

But I only saw three or four episodes of Heros, so I didn't really notice most of the downfalls of the series.
 
Another lift;

"Hiro Protagonist" is the name of the main character of Neil Stephenson's book "Snow Crash," published in 1992.
 
TheEarl said:
the writers created real people and made me give a damn what happened next.
I don't think the writers created real people; I think the writers created semi-real television people. That is, they have real elements (geekiness, ambition, the desire to fit in)...but aren't real enough to make things messy. Don't believe me? Take a look at all the fictional cliches: A very typical serial killer (weird, crazy, obsessed...blah, blah, blah), a conspiracy run by mild-seeming ultra wealthy man (can you say James Bond villain?), a know-it-all-hermit who is reluctantly talked into "training" the young hero--and does so brutally :rolleyes: Viewers have seen these, know these, they're instantly recognized and absorbed.

When I first saw Nikki on the internet trying to stay afloat with a son and an ex-con husband...the first thing I thought was, "Too pretty" and "too clean." Her home, situation, etc. was television "real," which is to say, there was a barcode on her forehead: "single stripper woman/loving mom with cute kid and troubled past." She's right there on the "Television characters" shelf at Wal-Mart. And there's a good reason for this; if they'd made her REAL, she wouldn't have been so easy to absorb. If you don't know what I mean, watch an episode of "The Shield," which tends to hire actors that look very real, present locations that are very realistic, and writes some very messy realistic characters. Now imagine if THAT show had created a character like Nikki. What kind of actress they would have picked, what would her home have looked like, what would her situation have really been like?

I'm not saying there's no reality to these characters, only that they're not so real as the show pretends they are. Which is fine. I don't have a problem with any show or story doing that. My problem is that the show wants to have it both ways. Wants to be real...but isn't willing to be as real as it could or ought to be. Which, again, allows it to be sloppy. It's real when it wants to be, not real when that would mess up the plot, story or characters. It cheats. To take another example: the premise is that there are all these people out there with powers in OUR real world--the world YOU live in. We are told that there have been such people for at least a generation, finding their powers every day at every age. So. Real world. Why is no one selling their abilities on Craig's list? No one writing a blog? Seeking "Freak" friends on MYSPACE? No forum for the superpowered? No Spam offering a pill that will "give you superpowers!" (or take them away?)?

Why not? Because the writers wanted these super folk thinking they were the only ones--and then discover each other slowly. It would hardly be dramatic for them to go looking on the internet for others--and find them so easily on MYSPACE.

I understand why the characters are as they are, and I understand why viewers would like such characters...but I, myself, didn't like the fact that the show sits on the fence between realistic and fairytale, insisting it's one while really being, mostly, the other. IMHO, if it's going to be real, it should run with that all the way. And if it's going to be mythic, it shouldn't try to hide that; it should revel in it's myths.
 
Stella_Omega said:
Another lift;

"Hiro Protagonist" is the name of the main character of Neil Stephenson's book "Snow Crash," published in 1992.
Oh, the lifts are too numerous to count. I don't mind the ones which were "wink-wink" homage ones, like naming a character "Claremont" after Chris Claremont, or cameos by George Takai and Stan Lee...etc. But when they were doing the whole "days of future past" X-Man story it came across as really lazy. Been there, done that, read that (several times!)...you couldn't think of anything new?
 
I know from experience trying to write superhero epics that it's almost impossible to not be faced with having to use some of those cliches at one point or another. Reason being that those cliches are tied hand in hand with the pitfalls and shortcomings of the superhero/action genre itself.

If you have a hero, you have to have a villain who's stronger or finds a way to weaken the hero or uses a loved one or innocent people to negate the hero's innate superior physical aspects. I think it's not if you use cliches, but how. If you use them in a way that's new and interesting, I think it's fine. Never seen Heroes, though.
 
I agree with flavortang. I'm a huge fan of Heroes mainly because it simply does remind me of the comics I read as a kid. I don't think Tim Kring ever intended to do anything other than mold all the classic superhero plots and subplots he himself grew up with into one immense story. His involvement of so many recognizeable aspects, faults, character traits, etc. are every bit as intentional as his "lifts" of character and place names. Kring is making an hommage to the classic comics stories of the 60s through the 80s.

Which is why I love it. As I watched each episode, I found myself eagerly looking for recognizeable plot effects and devices. That's part of the appeal. Geeks around the world watch the show and say, "Hey! That's Kitty Pride!" or, "Man, I bet I know what's going to happen next." But because this is a different media -- a superhero television series -- the obviousness of the plot is overlooked by the novelty of the medium.

After all, I knew exactly what was going to happen in Spider-Man. I knew Mary Jane was going to be caputred by the Green Goblin. I knew Green Goblin was going to die by being impaled upon his own glider. But I was waiting for that! I wanted to see how the movie transformed static images from a comic book into animated art.

Heroes does the same thing for me.

I think you may have done yourself a slight disservice by watching all the episodes back-to-back, 3. Part of what I loved about Heroes, about what kept me hooked, was that week's worth of anticipation between episodes. Seven days to figure out what was going to happen next, and then to be either rewarded or pleasantly surprised.

I can't wait for the next season ;)
 
I have to agree with Slyc on this one... I was never into comic books as a child... they were too simple for me, ( i had a college reading level in third grade) but to see the adventures come alive on the screen is really something i can dig my teeth into. I love how the characters seem more real to me.

oh yes and at times it can be very predictable because its stereotypical.

ms.read
 
*shrug*

So watch The 4400... basically the exact same show but with a sci-fi future twist. With much more real characters, case in point the high school loner who got mind control powers and nailed the hottest chick in the school. I mean seriously... how much more 'real' can you get.

Personally, I don't want to watch my tubby next door neighbor on TV... I want a psychotic, super_strong, stripping Ali Larter.

What's next? No sex on Gray's Anatomy!!! My girlfriend might shoot herself.
 
Watched the first 3 or 4 episodes here in the UK, then just gave up, it was getting long and boring.

I agree the first couple of episodes introducing people were pretty good, but then they seemed to get bogged down. They seem to be making it long and complicated just for the sake of it. The bomb is 6 weeks away, for heavens sake, do we have to experience every single day of those 6 weeks??

Now I just can't be arsed to watch it, which is a shame, because all the pre-trailers were great, making me want to watch.
 
i loved heroes

was totally pissed of cos the kids didn't tape it while i was away in China for 3 weeks!

i didnt go too deeply into it like you guys - i just watched it for fun! :D
 
You said it well Slick :)

My room mate and I would make popcorn and pick a spot to hang and then watch it Avidly....
And shout and yell and go OMFG!!!! He didnt!!!! What a mind Fuck!
Regardless of the gimmicks it was fun, fresh, riviting, and just good watching...

September 24th!!!! Season Premier!
 
3113 said:
But when they were doing the whole "days of future past" X-Man story it came across as really lazy. Been there, done that, read that (several times!)...you couldn't think of anything new?

I find the difference between a fun homage and a cheap rip-off very tricky to nail down when I'm trying to write one. I like the way Law & Order used to do it -- uses a headline story as the backstory, but then moves onto its own twists and resolution.

But, hey, it could be worse: they could try to homage Scott Summer's family tree. O_O
 
I think it's fun and mostly brain candy. The performances are good and the art direction is the part of the show I enjoy the most.

Especially little easter eggs like the genetic pattern repeating itself in the background.

I was hooked when in one of the first episodes, I saw in the pool in the backyard, the pool divider was arranged in the spiral code of the DNA strand that finds its way into so many bits of the art direction.

That appeals to me.

I forgive the plot foibles because it's nowhere near as bad as it could be.

This show to me is like a comic book. Pretty. I'm not really expecting depth, so I'm not disappointed.
 
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