Here's the botton line on health care.

[YANCEY]

America, the so called beacon of light to the rest of the world has to decide whether or not we are a compassionate enough nation to consider health care as a right or a privilege. It's a question of morality, plain and simple. Are we a nation so focused on the capital markets, economics and self indulgence or are we a caring nation whose focus is on helping or fellow man? The choice is becoming increasingly clear.

 

[Squibbs]

America, the so called beacon of light to the rest of the world has to decide whether or not we are a compassionate enough nation to consider health care as a right or a privilege. It's a question of morality, plain and simple. Are we a nation so focused on the capital markets, economics and self indulgence or are we a caring nation whose focus is on helping or fellow man? The choice is becoming increasingly clear.

There is no decision.

It is now law.

Those who fight it are now criminals.

 

[unregistered]

 

[CandiCame]

The choice is between liberty or tyranny, free choice, or the dictates of Leviathan. The choice is between the free market allocation of medical resources, or the demonstrable failure of command order government allocations represented by those socialized government endeavors that litter the dustbin of history. The choice is between the efficiency of the competitive market place based on and adjusted by the millions upon millions of economic decisions of consumers, or the stagnate, reactive decisions of a few elites occupying a distant bureau in Washington. Will you decide to lower your standard of living and subordinate your personal liberty in order to claim coverage that we cannot afford or will ever realize. Those are the questions.

That someone without access to Google would ask.

 

[Not Normal]

America, the so called beacon of light to the rest of the world has to decide whether or not we are a compassionate enough nation to consider health care as a right or a privilege. It's a question of morality, plain and simple. Are we a nation so focused on the capital markets, economics and self indulgence or are we a caring nation whose focus is on helping or fellow man? The choice is becoming increasingly clear.

I think a group that is getting larger wants the former, but we still are the latter. I don't believe we will transition to the former ever, and for sure, not in my lifetime. We claim to be a beacon of light and a nation of beliefs of equality and godliness, but the true God of the nation is money. People will fuck over their own blood just to get more, how do you think they think about the guy down the street?

 

[YANCEY]

The choice is between liberty or tyranny, free choice, or the dictates of Leviathan. The choice is between the free market allocation of medical resources, or the demonstrable failure of command order government allocations represented by those socialized government endeavors that litter the dustbin of history. The choice is between the efficiency of the competitive market place based on and adjusted by the millions upon millions of economic decisions of consumers, or the stagnate, reactive decisions of a few elites occupying a distant bureau in Washington. Will you decide to lower your standard of living and subordinate your personal liberty in order to claim coverage that we cannot afford or will ever realize. Those are the questions.

If you have current coverage with your employer you can keep it. How is that tyranny? If your employer raises your premium or cuts back on your benefits, that's between your employer and the insurance carrier. It's not because the ACA raised your premium. Be upset with your employer and greedy insurance companies who are not just looking for a way to pass on the costs since they now have to accept higher risks individuals.

The free market only tends to be free for those whom can afford it. All to often, the poor and disenfranchised get left out in the cold. Government is there to help do for the collective what cannot be done by the individual.

So are you honestly saying that the current market place is efficient? Really?

In my personal situation, coverage is provided through my employer for myself and my family. However, I am indeed excited for those currently without coverage, options and opportunity to now be able to have adequate coverage. I feel as Americans, sometimes we must sacrifice for the benefit of or fellow man. If you cannot see that then you probably have no empathy or concern for your fellow American.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The choice is between liberty or tyranny, free choice, or the dictates of Leviathan. The choice is between the free market allocation of medical resources, or the demonstrable failure of command order government allocations represented by those socialized government endeavors that litter the dustbin of history. The choice is between the efficiency of the competitive market place based on and adjusted by the millions upon millions of economic decisions of consumers, or the stagnate, reactive decisions of a few elites occupying a distant bureau in Washington. Will you decide to lower your standard of living and subordinate your personal liberty in order to claim coverage that we cannot afford or will ever realize. Those are the questions.

Those aren't the choices but given the results seen world wide if they were then I choose tyranny and the dictates of Leviathan. Apparently he needs me fat and healthy before he devours me I'm better off under his rule than free to die in the wild. The competitive market has proven to be innefficient in this area and the stagnant market has saved and improved millions of lives. It's not a coincidence that the entitled Europeans are outpacing us in upward mobility. They simply don't have to save as much for a rainy day and can more freely engage in what's left of their free market. I haven't lowered my standard of living, I've improved it a great deal.

 

[YANCEY]

We claim to be a beacon of light and a nation of beliefs of equality and godliness, but the true God of the nation is money. People will fuck over their own blood just to get more, how do you think they think about the guy down the street?

No argument here. Power and money...

 

[CandiCame]

Those aren't the choices but given the results seen world wide if they were then I choose tyranny and the dictates of Leviathan. Apparently he needs me fat and healthy before he devours me I'm better off under his rule than free to die in the wild. The competitive market has proven to be innefficient in this area and the stagnant market has saved and improved millions of lives. It's not a coincidence that the entitled Europeans are outpacing us in upward mobility. They simply don't have to save as much for a rainy day and can more freely engage in what's left of their free market. I haven't lowered my standard of living, I've improved it a great deal.

Does Leviathan have some other meaning that I'm not aware of? I thought the Leviathan was a giant alligator that Jesus was gonna wrestle as part of the apocalypse. I literally did not understand the previous question because I had no idea what they were referencing. Was that a weird metaphor? Was our government the gator?

 

[CandiCame]

But I never understood Leviathan very clearly. It's like it was already here? Because god tells it to get the fuck out? But then it doesn't? So he fights it and makes us eat it? It's one of the weirder things in there...

 

[RobDownSouth]

Conservatives on Lit often splutter "but...but...LIBERTY!" or "but...but...FREEDOM" or "but...but...TYRANNY" when they are cornered.

It's their way of saying "You're right, but I lack the personal integrity to admit it".

 

[Sean Renaud]

Does Leviathan have some other meaning that I'm not aware of? I thought the Leviathan was a giant alligator that Jesus was gonna wrestle as part of the apocalypse. I literally did not understand the previous question because I had no idea what they were referencing. Was that a weird metaphor? Was our government the gator?

In this case it's something big that's gonna swallow us all because it's hungry. You know like Microsoft.

 

[CandiCame]

In this case it's something big that's gonna swallow us all because it's hungry. You know like Microsoft.

That's not at all what happened to Leviathan. We ate him. Bad analogy.

 

[Tryharder62]

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh yea god forbid the gubbmint be all big and overbearing about medical care....unless it's one of the billion other markets the RWCJ want's death grip big gubbmint control over.

I love it...."conservatives" always love to run on and on about how they want the market to decide not big gubbmint........FUCKING LIARS!! They only want that when it's too their advantage, otherwise they fucking LOVE huge gubbmint control. They start fucking WARS to control markets FFS.....they should rename the GOP to the party of "Greedy fucking soulless sacks of shit"



Oh and the left...you fucking pussy ass bleeding heart fucks... you go so overboard with the boo hoo stories,

spare me

You are so right on so many things, but on nearly every issue somewhere along the way you drop the fucking ball and cut your noses off pulling some 3rd grader partisan hack shit. More often than not you take a great idea and then try to solve issues by apply law in the most asinine, worthless dickhead way possible. THEN you try and justify it with "Well I'm so righteous the ends justify the means so I'm going to be childish and make this hurt as much as I can." Further fueling the partisan pissing contests that result in breakdowns....

 

[tactful]

Make the Insurance companies non-profitable Health Exchanges with no shareholders, charge what people can afford (minimum price) and it's half way to success, instead of half way to hell, of course, if jobs were created early on (full time jobs) and an in depth study of Obamacare would have helped, prior to shoving down everybody's throat, Idiot Politicians.

 

[Sean]

Does Leviathan have some other meaning that I'm not aware of? I thought the Leviathan was a giant alligator that Jesus was gonna wrestle as part of the apocalypse. I literally did not understand the previous question because I had no idea what they were referencing. Was that a weird metaphor? Was our government the gator?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(book)
Vettebigot has never read it, but Drudge or someone uses the analogy so he repeats it like the good little lemming that he is.

 

[phrodeau]

I thought this was a thread from 2010. Those healthcare issues were all decided long ago.

 

[kotori]

It's sad such a nice person can be so stupid.

 

[CandiCame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leviathan_(book)
Vettebigot has never read it, but Drudge or someone uses the analogy so he repeats it like the good little lemming that he is.

Oh, cool! I've learned something!

 

[richard_daily]

The choice is between liberty or tyranny, free choice, or the dictates of Leviathan. The choice is between the free market allocation of medical resources, or the demonstrable failure of command order government allocations represented by those socialized government endeavors that litter the dustbin of history. The choice is between the efficiency of the competitive market place based on and adjusted by the millions upon millions of economic decisions of consumers, or the stagnate, reactive decisions of a few elites occupying a distant bureau in Washington. Will you decide to lower your standard of living and subordinate your personal liberty in order to claim coverage that we cannot afford or will ever realize. Those are the questions.

^^^^
Spoken like a true criminal, and probably also a terrorist.

 

[Tryharder62]

It's sad such a nice person can be so stupid.

If you think that the government is going to handle our health care better than they did public assistance and medicare, medicaid I think you are nuts. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The less government the better is all I am saying.

Have a beautiful morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7au2eWtEVY

 

[RobDownSouth]

If you think that the government is going to handle our health care better than they did public assistance and medicare, medicaid I think you are nuts. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The less government the better is all I am saying.

Have a beautiful morning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7au2eWtEVY

I'd love to see you explain to a formerly "uninsurable at any cost" person how having no insurance at all is vastly preferable to a purportedly "inferior" government-run product.

Medicare isn't perfect but we'd have a fuck-ton more dead seniors without it.

 

[sufisaint]

Here is the bottom line on healthcare...we need more well clinics for prevention at a reasonable actual cost, we need more doctors and more trained healthcare professional to do the more mundane things, we need legal reform to stop the practice of defensive medicine, we need to stop protecting drug companies and their outrageous prices, we basically need real solutions NOT ANOTHER PONZI FINANCE SCHEME like Obamacare!!!

 

[contrifan32]

There is no decision.

It is now law.

Those who fight it are now criminals.

Prohibition was once the law... were those who fought for repeal criminals too?