Herbal Magic?

[AngelicAnguish]

Just wondering if anyone has tried this for weight loss and if it works?

I've given it some thought but realize that the better way is through a proper diet and excercise, it's just soooo tempting if there is something that will boost it.

And if not herbal magic, some other supplements that will encourage fat buring and lend some energy.

Thanks!

 

[SweetErika]

Just wondering if anyone has tried this for weight loss and if it works?

I've given it some thought but realize that the better way is through a proper diet and excercise, it's just soooo tempting if there is something that will boost it.

And if not herbal magic, some other supplements that will encourage fat buring and lend some energy.

Thanks!

I wasn't familiar with Herbal Magic, so I checked out their website. Of course people are losing weight with "...the emphasis of each program is the reduction of carbohydrates and fat calories in a well-balanced diet..." Of course they have supplements, but I'm suspicious of any company that doesn't tell you exactly what's in them.

It's true there are tons of supplements that will increase your metabolism, but many of them can also give you high blood pressure, a stroke, heart problems, or kill you. The rest of them are generally just a big waste of money.

One supplement that has been studied is Green Tea Extract. You have to find a (preferably decaf) supplement with enough EGCg in it (I believe the study was done with 90mg of EGCg three times a day), but I haven't seen anything that says it's anything but good for your health and metabolism and extremely safe overall.

A lot of people have also had some success with a B-complex, a good multivitamin, and making sure they're getting enough minerals like magnesium (a deficiency can lead to sugar cravings).

EJFan has a great thread on weight loss here if you're interested as well.

 

[EJFan]

EJFan has a great thread on weight loss here if you're interested as well.

thanks... mudpuppy's thread in the HT cafe has gone much farther than the one i started way back when.

as far as herbal magic goes... no, it doesn't work and let me be blunt here... THERE ARE NO HERBAL OR PRESCRIPTION PILLS THAT WILL HELP YOU LOSE WEIGHT. the exception to this rule is if you take the pill of your choice while eating scant amounts of food... but this method will work without the pills as well.

point is, save your money. diet and exercise. period. eat less than you burn and you'll lose weight safely and for the long term... plus it's far cheaper.

 

[hob_knob]

No No No

I hate things like this! They play on peoples fears and self esteem.

The only right and healthy way to do this is through proper diet and exercise. Any shortcut methods can only lead to problems, trust me, I know!

 

[AngelicAnguish]

Yeah I thought so, just needed to hear it reconfirmed.

I've been following the other threads with interest (lurker though). Just hit a milestone (and not a good one at that) that is a wake up call and I've gotta do something about it.

Thanksall.

 

[EJFan]

Just hit a milestone (and not a good one at that) that is a wake up call and I've gotta do something about it.

Thanksall.

may i ask what you mean by "a wake up call"???

 

[houseman]

It's true there are tons of supplements that will increase your metabolism, but many of them can also give you high blood pressure, a stroke, heart problems, or kill you. The rest of them are generally just a big waste of money.

Curious:

Which ones can kill you?

 

[SweetErika]

Curious:

Which ones can kill you?

Well, people have died from the pills containing ephedra/Ma huang. Even something like caffeine can raise blood pressure to the point of stroke and death. Kava and St. John's Wort have been shown to damage the liver with long-term use. Overdosing on certain minerals will cause serious damage and/or kill. Most of these supplements are unregulated, and sometimes you don't know what the hell's in them or what effect they'll really have on your body. Your doctor may not even know, though most will tell you to stay away from the big ones like ephedra altogether.

I know a lady who has been taking a very popular "natural metabolism supplement" that contains ephedra and caffeine for years. She's tried to quit, but has serious problems when she's done so...extreme lethargy, rapid weight gain, irritation at everything and everyone, headaches, etc. She's addicted, and her personality has completely changed with frequent and severe mood swings. After a few months off of the pills, her personality returned to normal, but her metabolism was so fucked up, she gained a lot of weight and went right back on them...the unbearable mood swings and poor judgment has returned with the pills. She has to take more and more to keep "functioning" and her weight steady.

I'm a big proponent of natural treatments, and have found some things like decaf green tea, b-supplements, calcium/magnesium/zinc, and a good multivitamin to help me feel better overall, reduce hunger and cravings, and enhance a healthy diet and exercise. I ALWAYS research thoroughly and check with my doctor. But messing around with "magic pills" and risking my health and life for pounds that can be taken off in a healthy way isn't worth it.

 

[EJFan]

I know a lady who has been taking a very popular "natural metabolism supplement" that contains ephedra and caffeine for years. She's tried to quit, but has serious problems when she's done so...extreme lethargy, rapid weight gain, irritation at everything and everyone, headaches, etc. She's addicted, and her personality has completely changed with frequent and severe mood swings. After a few months off of the pills, her personality returned to normal, but her metabolism was so fucked up, she gained a lot of weight and went right back on them...the unbearable mood swings and poor judgment has returned with the pills. She has to take more and more to keep "functioning" and her weight steady.

on a sort of unrelated note...

it's now not proper to refer to this as anything like "withdrawal"... it's seriously referred to as "discontinuation syndrome." i couldn't believe my ears when a doctor actually used this term on an episode of 60 minutes or a similar show.

 

[Eilan]

on a sort of unrelated note...

it's now not proper to refer to this as anything like "withdrawal"... it's seriously referred to as "discontinuation syndrome." i couldn't believe my ears when a doctor actually used this term on an episode of 60 minutes or a similar show.

Oh, to be politically correct. . .

This is why, if my husband uses a Taser on (or does anything else to subdue) a suspect who's resisting arrest, his division now refers to it as "response to resistance" instead of "use of force."

[/hijack]

 

[SweetErika]

on a sort of unrelated note...

it's now not proper to refer to this as anything like "withdrawal"... it's seriously referred to as "discontinuation syndrome." i couldn't believe my ears when a doctor actually used this term on an episode of 60 minutes or a similar show.

Oops.

LMAO

 

[houseman]

Well, people have died from the pills containing ephedra/Ma huang. Even something like caffeine can raise blood pressure to the point of stroke and death. Kava and St. John's Wort have been shown to damage the liver with long-term use. Overdosing on certain minerals will cause serious damage and/or kill. Most of these supplements are unregulated, and sometimes you don't know what the hell's in them or what effect they'll really have on your body. Your doctor may not even know, though most will tell you to stay away from the big ones like ephedra altogether.

I know a lady who has been taking a very popular "natural metabolism supplement" that contains ephedra and caffeine for years. She's tried to quit, but has serious problems when she's done so...extreme lethargy, rapid weight gain, irritation at everything and everyone, headaches, etc. She's addicted, and her personality has completely changed with frequent and severe mood swings. After a few months off of the pills, her personality returned to normal, but her metabolism was so fucked up, she gained a lot of weight and went right back on them...the unbearable mood swings and poor judgment has returned with the pills. She has to take more and more to keep "functioning" and her weight steady.

I'm a big proponent of natural treatments, and have found some things like decaf green tea, b-supplements, calcium/magnesium/zinc, and a good multivitamin to help me feel better overall, reduce hunger and cravings, and enhance a healthy diet and exercise. I ALWAYS research thoroughly and check with my doctor. But messing around with "magic pills" and risking my health and life for pounds that can be taken off in a healthy way isn't worth it.

Tylenol can kill you.
Advil can kill you.
Aspirin can kill you.
Caffeine can kill you.
Cigarettes can kill you.
Alcohol can kill you.
Water can kill you.

My point? All of the above - all legal consumables - can kill you if abused.

People did not die from Ephedra. People died because they abused it.

Ignorance, I guess, is bliss.

 

[Layne]

Weight Loss pills

Excuse me for butting in here, and please note that I only read a couple of the replies before jumping in, BUT...............................

No supplement manufacuturer is EVER going to produce and sell a truly effective weight loss drug, in the sense that most people are looking for. I didn't say it wasn't possible, but it will never be produced. They make more money if they can keep you coming back for the "New and Improved" version.

Best bet is the 2-step plan. Step one, eat less. Step two, move around more. Believe me it works.

Layne

 

[houseman]

Best bet is the 2-step plan. Step one, eat less. Step two, move around more. Believe me it works.

Layne

You plan is flawed. Eating less is not the answer. Most people trying to lose weight already eat less. Starving the body of food will help you lose weight to a point. But eventually you stall out, get frustrated and stop altogether.

Believe me, it don't work.

 

[Layne]

Clarification

I do not mean less frequently, I mean fewer calories. Weight loss or gain, is simply a mathmatical equation. Caloric deficit equals weight loss, plain and simple. Believe it or not, I too used to be quite overweight. I now eat 6 meals a day, but control my caloric intake, and stay away from fad diets.

Layne

 

[houseman]

I do not mean less frequently, I mean fewer calories. Weight loss or gain, is simply a mathmatical equation. Caloric deficit equals weight loss, plain and simple. Believe it or not, I too used to be quite overweight. I now eat 6 meals a day, but control my caloric intake, and stay away from fad diets.

Layne

Yeah, I knew what you meant

I agree on less calories but only to a point. Seriously. I diet on 3500 cals/day and it's more than enough combined with training and cardio for me to lose 1-2lbs/week. Sometimes, it's almost too little calories.

People need to get out of this mentality that in order to lose weight they must eat less. Yes, it's true but eating less and starving yourself are to very different things. I've seen males drop down to 1000 cals/day when trying to lose weight in addition to weight training and cardio. Yes, they lost weight initially but in 4-5 weeks the weight loss stopped. They reduced cals even more and exercised more.... little more weight came off but not much and eventually they thought "this isn't working for me" so they go back to eating their "normal" routines again and the weight they did lose quickly came back in addition to an extra 10-15lbs.

They starved themselves for so long that their body shutdown on them and started hording onto everything they fed it. When they upped the calories... the body was still in shutdown mode which meant everything they ate was stored and weight gain was going to be a given.

That's all I'm trying to get across. A lot of times it's not that people should cut calories but rather increase calories to lose weight (fat).

 

[Eilan]

Ignorance, I guess, is bliss.

You know, I generally enjoy your posts, because it's obvious that you know what the fuck you're talking about.

But I resent this comment, and it wasn't even directed at me. I think you'd already made your point without it.

 

[houseman]

You know, I generally enjoy your posts, because it's obvious that you know what the fuck you're talking about.

But I resent this comment, and it wasn't even directed at me. I think you'd already made your point without it.

It wasn't directed at anyone other than society as a whole.

We need to stop being ignorant to what the media and Government spoon feed us and take the rose colored glasses off and look at things for what they truly are.

That's all I meant by is.

Edit: I didn't mean for you or anyone else to be offended by it.

 

[SweetErika]

Tylenol can kill you.
Advil can kill you.
Aspirin can kill you.
Caffeine can kill you.
Cigarettes can kill you.
Alcohol can kill you.
Water can kill you.

My point? All of the above - all legal consumables - can kill you if abused.

People did not die from Ephedra. People died because they abused it.

Ignorance, I guess, is bliss.

Take care in calling people ignorant, especially when you've completely missed the point of their posts.

I'll try to explain it again and give you some evidence to ponder, k?

Let's say someone wants to lose weight. S/he figures if they lose weight, they'll feel and look better in general. They take a supplement advertised as "natural" and start having headaches and maybe an increase in pulse rate, but HEY! they're losing pounds and already feel more energetic. A few weeks later, they are out exercising to speed up the weight loss, have a stroke and/or go into cardiac arrest, and die. The pills raised the blood pressure just enough for them to stroke out or their heart couldn't take the extra stimulation. The person didn't know any better...they figured something natural taken according to the package directions combined with something so good for their body could only help them.

Associated Press - December 30, 2003 WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration is banning the sale of ephedra early next year, and urged consumers Tuesday to immediately stop using the herbal stimulant that has been linked to 155 deaths and dozens of heart attacks and strokes.

It was the government's first-ever ban on a dietary supplement, one that comes eight years after the Food and Drug Administration first began receiving reports that ephedra could be dangerous.

The FDA's Ephedra Info Page
Another article.
Yet another.

You're right...lots of things can kill you. However, Tylenol and most other drugs don't play on a person's self-esteem and are not sold as unregulated natural products. There are warnings all over the place (hell, even Tylenol's manufacturer is putting warnings on TV), and it's almost unheard of for something like Tylenol taken in accordance with directions to seriously harm.

Supplements, on the other hand, have not been proven safe or effective like medications, don't come with all of those warnings, and even if the directions are followed can certainly cause serious injury. Certain ones, when combined with something like exercise, being outside in the heat, or even having a HEALTHY liver can really hurt people.

 

[EJFan]

i wasn't going to get involved but there are so many things in life i've regretted NOT doing so what the hell...

i don't believe ANYTHING the government tells me about fitness or nutrition. not because their intentions are bad, but because you simply can't generalize it. period. the cure for obesity and poor health is simple. people need to learn what is good and what is good for THEM.

a logical argument could be made for carbs to top the food pyramid, or for meat, or fiber or anything else. dried fruits are good for you in certain situations... in others they're not. diet and fitness is simply TOO personal.

the same logic applies to ANY OTC drug... i don't care if it's regulated, unregulated, "natrual," herbal, pharmaceutical or whatever. some people can live on ephedra and others can take one pill and explode. it all comes down to personal responsibility and gathering enough GOOD information to make a qualified decision for YOURSELF. if something goes wrong, it's simply the consumer's fault.

at the risk of going of on a huge tangent, i believe one of the problems with this type of thing is that we, as a society, have come to RELY on the government to protect us... to protect us from getting hurt on a bicycle, from getting hurt in a playground, from getting hurt in our cars, from getting hurt while baking, while having sex, while breathing... whatever... we HAVE to get back to an attitude of personal responsibility and away from the assumption that an agency is going to have a cure-all or guaranteed safety guideline that fits every situation. if such a guideline is created, it's immediately at huge risk for compromise and as soon as that first suit comes in the face of said regulation/guideline, it gets patched with more regulations and guidelines... and on and on...

again, i suggest we make an entire world out of nerf.

 

[houseman]

Take care in calling people ignorant, especially when you've completely missed the point of their posts.

I've already apologized and explained what I meant by the comment. I see no need to do it yet again.

I'll try to explain it again and give you some evidence to ponder, k?

Let's say someone wants to lose weight. S/he figures if they lose weight, they'll feel and look better in general. They take a supplement advertised as "natural" and start having headaches and maybe an increase in pulse rate, but HEY! they're losing pounds and already feel more energetic. A few weeks later, they are out exercising to speed up the weight loss, have a stroke and/or go into cardiac arrest, and die. The pills raised the blood pressure just enough for them to stroke out or their heart couldn't take the extra stimulation. The person didn't know any better...they figured something natural taken according to the package directions combined with something so good for their body could only help them.

Associated Press - December 30, 2003 WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration is banning the sale of ephedra early next year, and urged consumers Tuesday to immediately stop using the herbal stimulant that has been linked to 155 deaths and dozens of heart attacks and strokes.

It was the government's first-ever ban on a dietary supplement, one that comes eight years after the Food and Drug Administration first began receiving reports that ephedra could be dangerous.

The FDA's Ephedra Info Page
Another article.
Yet another.

You're right...lots of things can kill you. However, Tylenol and most other drugs don't play on a person's self-esteem and are not sold as unregulated natural products. There are warnings all over the place (hell, even Tylenol's manufacturer is putting warnings on TV), and it's almost unheard of for something like Tylenol taken in accordance with directions to seriously harm.

Supplements, on the other hand, have not been proven safe or effective like medications, don't come with all of those warnings, and even if the directions are followed can certainly cause serious injury. Certain ones, when combined with something like exercise, being outside in the heat, or even having a HEALTHY liver can really hurt people.

I'm not going to get into a pisisng contest with you on the subject. I won't say I'm an expert in the field because I am not. I will say that I am willing to bet my life I have a virtual lifetime worth of experience over you with supplements, training, nutrition, etc and could easily take the opposite stance on what you wrote (and cited) above.

I won't because it doesn't matter and you are most definitely entitled to your opinion. I'm not about to change that opinion so it's a wasted effort on my part.

I will say one thing. In the cases which you mention and cite above, it was the abuse of the person which lead to their problems (death or illness). They either ignored the label warnings; their own physical health problems; abused the product; or a combination of all 3.

I for one, am tired of seeing society "babied" because they are too stupid to make wise choices and proper decisions with their lives. They take a product, get sick (or die) and then claim the product is bad. Well yes it's bad because they took it in 140 degree heat while knowing it would raise blood pressure, increase body temperature oh and by the way, they took twice the recommended dosage.

Why can't people by responsible for their own actions? Smoking causes more harm to the human body (and not even just those who partake in the activity) and the health care system yet it is solid as a legal product. It comes with warnings just like Ephedra did yet Government won't ban it. Why?

Stop listening to the media and what your Government is telling you. Pick up a book. Fire up PubMed or the Journal of Endocronology or any other medical journals online and do some research for yourself. Protect yourself.

I have no pity for ANYONE who abuses something that comes with warnings and then complains about the problems they have a sa result of said warning.

And for the record, even pharmacology products escape into full usage without always knowing the side effects 100%.

That's all.

 

[houseman]

Just for the record...

Just for the record... by in large I feel most "weight loss" supplements are a joke and waste of your time and more importantly... money.

A solid diet and weight training program coupled with cardio performed 4-5 times a week can yield a person amazing results without fat loss supplements.

The key is patience and time. Like novacain, give it a little bit of time it always works

And, supplements are just that... supplements. They're an aid. If diet and training are not in check you won't see jack shit from them no matter how much you take.

 

[SweetErika]

I've already apologized and explained what I meant by the comment. I see no need to do it yet again.

Yes, I was posting while you were apologizing.

I'm not going to get into a pisisng contest with you on the subject. I won't say I'm an expert in the field because I am not. I will say that I am willing to bet my life I have a virtual lifetime worth of experience over you with supplements, training, nutrition, etc and could easily take the opposite stance on what you wrote (and cited) above.

No need to bet anything. I'll take your word that you have more experience. I was simply pointing out people need to educate themselves on things and work with medical professionals to reduce the risk of harming or killing themselves because even things that seem harmless (like diet supplements and herbs) can, in fact, do a hell of a lot of harm. It seems we agree on that, and the fact that many things, including medications and legal drugs like nicotine, can also be harmful, so there's no need to argue.

I won't because it doesn't matter and you are most definitely entitled to your opinion. I'm not about to change that opinion so it's a wasted effort on my part.

I simply figured if you misinterpreted my opinion, others might as well, so I clarified that for you and anyone else. The beauty of a discussion forum is the ability to exchange thoughts and information, so I'd disagree it's a wasted effort, but that's your perogative.

Respectfully, houseman, the problems for me are not caused by your disagreement...it's in the way you came into this thread and countered posts that set me (and I'm guessing some others) on edge, or at the very least, led to miscommunication. People disagree with me all of the time, but they generally do it in a way that signals some sort of respect for differing views and discussion. I've found Litsters, especially HT regulars, to be exceptionally good at communicating their opinions and discussing even volatile topics. I love to discuss, hear different views, and learn from others, and have found that's a lot easier to do when I do certain things to indicate that's my goal (vs. proving people wrong, starting arguments, etc.).

 

[houseman]

Respectfully, houseman, the problems for me are not caused by your disagreement...it's in the way you came into this thread and countered posts that set me (and I'm guessing some others) on edge, or at the very least, led to miscommunication. People disagree with me all of the time, but they generally do it in a way that signals some sort of respect for differing views and discussion. I've found Litsters, especially HT regulars, to be exceptionally good at communicating their opinions and discussing even volatile topics. I love to discuss, hear different views, and learn from others, and have found that's a lot easier to do when I do certain things to indicate that's my goal (vs. proving people wrong, starting arguments, etc.).

I'm sure it pissed you off. However, when it comes to things like nutrition, training and topics of the like I ain't here to fuck around.

I'm a person who believes in fact. I loathe rhetoric and can't stand gross generalizations and misinterpertations.

I don't have time to play games nor do I think you or anyone else here does as well.

You said certain supplement can kill a person. I asked which one's to which you replied. I already knew exactly what you were getting at well before you put pen to paper (or int his case fingers to keyword lol) which is why I took the position I did.

If my abraisive nature offended you or anyone else here. I'm sorry. I like to get to the nity grity and get to it quickly without the bullshit. I don't have to chime in on such threads but I have a wealth experience and knowledge in this area. I know it like the back of my hand. I don't want to see misrepresentation and distortations of facts (not saying you were doing that) without people seeing the WHOLE picture over just bits and pieces of it which is exactly what happens when people's opinion are guided by media and Government (again, not saying you are/were).

This is what I call communication and debate.

I hold no ill will. Debate in all forms regardless of style or manner is healthy. Only time it becomes a problem is when people get personal. We didn't. I don't see a problem with how we carried out our discussion.

Have fun.

Free free to continue on debating the topic if you wish.

 

[KurayaminoVaria]

Try this

Actually, contrary to popular belief, eating less and doing more can actually be harmful in certain situations. The idea behind eating less and doing more to lose weight is that you will burn fat instead of carbohydrates and the stuff you got from your food. The problem is that this is not what happens without a PROPER diet. Without enough protiens and minerals in your diet, your body becomes unable to do the kind of usuall maintenince on itself that it usually does, and so muscle and vital tissues are also metabolized along with the fat. You will lose the weight, but because a large percentage of that weight will infact be from muscle, you'll be worse off than when you started the diet. As soon as you start eating a normal amount again, you'll start gaining weight because you'll have less muscle with which to burn the fat. Aerobics and things that are normally considered excercize are usually not enough to offset the loss.

My mother simply could NOT loose weight that she put on after she had me. She ran, she tried at least 5 different diets that I can recall, and not one of them really worked. My dad finally found this Slow Burn Revolution book that basically supplements a specific kind of weight training in which the goal is to reach muscle fatigue with as little effort and risk of injury as possible. It also describes a low-starch-but-normal-protien-and-minerals kind of diet which I'm not sure if she followed, but she did do the excercises and it worked very well. It's a well researched book written by 2 MDs and a guy that runs a fitness center in NY, so it's at least got some credibility behind it. I'd reccomend at least looking at the book in a bookstore to get an idea of what it's about. The info above is all from it. It has a kind of infomercially tone, but it seems very credible to both me and my father who is a preventive health specialist.