Help This hopeless case!

[shithitsfan]

Well I'm going into my 20th birthday and, sad to say, I'm still a virgin, never had a serious relationship, never kissed any girl, and (as far as I know) never had a girl whom I fancied to reciprocate.

I guess I'm at my wits end I've tried everything like trying to talk to them more, go to more parties, meet new people, be (or at least try to be) confident and have higher self esteem. I dont consider myself ugly, but I'm not as attractive as most other males I know. I'm definately not the 'alpha male' type, not much of a leader among my group of friends. But I'm positive I have (quite) a good dress sense and have to a certain degree a sense of humor (except I find it exceptionally hard to display this sense of humor to people that I hardly know/had just known). I also believe that I can hold a good (intelligent) conversation with friends. I've recently started working out regularly but theres not much results yet. I dont have that many talents, just a little bit of everything I've tried (the guitar, soccer, photography, sketching), I don't have my own vehicle, and I sure as hell don't have a whole lot of money.

I've tried asking several girls out, but I've only ever dated this ONE girl and after a few weeks she totally stopped talking to me, and to be honest it kind of sucks.

But that was long ago, although I'd really like to find out what's wrong? I seem to be the only one among my friends to be lacking companionship. When is the right time to ask a girl out? Whats the right way to introduce yourself to a girl you hardly know? How do you know if you even HAVE a chance of asking this girl out successfully? And last of all, with so many 'alpha males' around, will I stand a chance?

P.S. I must apologize if all this seems a little mechanical and strange, I mean by all means call me a loser but I'm at my wits end.

 

[Colton_White]

Well I'm going into my 20th birthday and, sad to say, I'm still a virgin, never had a serious relationship, never kissed any girl, and (as far as I know) never had a girl whom I fancied to reciprocate.

cheers dude, look at me and get happy
I'm 21 y.o and I've never had any type of sexual activity with
any man/woman/child/TS/dead/plastic doll,
so I'm also a virgin like you [and many people here on Literotica just start make fun
of me when they get out of any other thing to debate .esp. on playground]
but I don't care.
I blame my location of residence for it. and not myself.

and I believe in positive thinking.

[I will post some [lame] advice .. but I need to copy paste them from the other thread where I advised same kinda of problem recently ]

 

[Colton_White]

But that was long ago, although I'd really like to find out what's wrong? I seem to be the only one among my friends to be lacking companionship. When is the right time to ask a girl out? Whats the right way to introduce yourself to a girl you hardly know? How do you know if you even HAVE a chance of asking this girl out successfully? And last of all, with so many 'alpha males' around, will I stand a chance?

P.S. I must apologize if all this seems a little mechanical and strange, I mean by all means call me a loser but I'm at my wits end.

well you posted your details very well, and I find you have a good, sincere character and personality. [acco. to you post.]

I don't have any answer to your above querries.[I'm not techniacally qualified for it anyways lol, reason my previous post].
let someone experienced come over and post something e.g. Velvet/Erica/emap/Mr.G/ etc. [and other regular posters too]

"The truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do.
The hard part is doing it."

-Norman Schwarzkopf


just copy pasting my reply from another thread:-

there are no cut and dried - universal principles and rules e.g. Go to X place/website
and do/say Y thing and you will find the Z girl with lot love and care for you.
its a matter of luck and time,

there are men and women looking good and having good personalities but still single / stuck
in bad marriage/relationship.
on the other hand there are assholes who score/get laid with sexiest ladies.

its a matter of luck and time,
but that doesn't mean you sit down on your computer chair and hope the things to happen
on their own.
and you did try...
I see you already have
humor
good look
nice personality
hobbies classes

the only thing you need luck and opportunity >

let me give some luck to you
http://img.123greetings.com/eventsnew/gen_luck/1012-004-38-1036.gif
don't give up the hope
there is still a big life ahead of you with lot sex to do with someone very special.
lot opportunities will arrive to you SOON!

 

[Emilio_di_Roccabruna]

I'm afraid I don't have that much experience myself shithitsfan, so I can only give you my personal opinion.

I am myself extremely shy (take a look at my post count ) and find it difficult to talk to or joke with people I hardly know. When it comes to asking a girl out, though, I have recently discovered it is much better to apply a Blitz-Krieg strategy (not literally of course) and ask her out as soon as you've established a basic conversation and discovered that:
- she is single;
- she might be even remotely interested in going out with a male specimen of the human race.

This works for me because I can avoid running a million disaster scenarios in my head, after all what's the worst that can happen? She'll say no in front of your friends, who will joke about it for about 2 minutes and then offer you a beer and a laugh if they're really your friends!
Basically thinking about it forever or waiting for the perfect moment never worked for me, s the best thing to do, in my opinion, is take the plunge right away! You'll feel a lot better afterwards because you had the guts to do it and you'll know her intentions right away.

I repeat, this is only my opinion, based on my own personal experiences, but I hope it helps
Let me know how it goes...

 

[cloudy]

Women can smell desperation a mile away, trust me on this.

My advice is to find things that you enjoy doing, and just do them. Enthusiasm is contagious, and you'll be enjoying yourself, so there will be none of those nasty desperation fumes coming off you.

I've learned that the harder you try to meet "someone," the less likely you are to actually meet anybody.

Relax, you're really still a puppy. You've got tons and tons of time.

 

[shysilverwing]

Good luck

I always think its interesting how a guy that over 18 and still a virgin is kind of looked down on by society. Yet if your a girl and over 18 and your a virgin (like myself...) you're pure or whatever. Sorry, just had to go off on my own rant.

Maybe your not looking for the right gal, I find myself irresistibly attracted to the bookish shy guys, so even if your shy (and not the alpha male), there should be someone out there that is attracted to you. It may just be you psyching yourself out, you think that you're going to fail then that mindset makes you fail. Now, that doesn't mean be an arrogant prick, but optimism is a good tool to have.

When introducing yourself to a girl, don't try to impress her (that will probably lead you to thinking about it way too much), just act natural. Even if you make a huge fool out of yourself, at least you then have a funny story to tell someone. One thing I can't stand are guys who are creepy, so please, don't say anything awkward or too forward for the girl.
One thing that turns me on with guys, is when they are smart. I can't stand the silly jock or college fraternity stereotype guys.

 

[SweetErika]

Women can smell desperation a mile away, trust me on this.

My advice is to find things that you enjoy doing, and just do them. Enthusiasm is contagious, and you'll be enjoying yourself, so there will be none of those nasty desperation fumes coming off you.

I've learned that the harder you try to meet "someone," the less likely you are to actually meet anybody.

Relax, you're really still a puppy. You've got tons and tons of time.

My thoughts exactly!

If you're thinking you're even somewhat hopeless and obsessing over meeting someone or your lack of experience at 20, you're definitely sending off a desperate vibe and repelling the ladies.

It's hard, but you've got to stop putting so much emphasis on this. Practice asking women you're really interested out and not letting all of your hopes ride on the answer. Every "no" you get will lead you closer to a "yes" because at least you tried and got some practice talking to women and overcoming your fear of rejection.

Don't worry about it; it'll happen if you put yourself out there and into situations where you're having fun and simply meeting new people!

And plenty of women don't go for Alpha types. I've found Betas usually treat me better and are more suitable for a LTR, so I specifically look for just plain nice, intelligent guys I have stuff in common and feel a connection with.

 

[SoleDesire]

I'm curious

What are you doing to meet women? Are you just going to clubs and parties, or are you looking other places as well?

What made me think of this, SHF, is your mention of alpha males. Ya, these guys tend to dominate clubs and parties, but they're not everywhere. Nor are their tactics successful everywhere. I think it's hard for anyone, male or female, to meet someone with whom to have a relationship in a club/party/meat market type of environment -- it's all about superficial, instant decision-making. You mentioned working out -- some gyms are good places to meet people, but others are just nightclubs with exercise equipment.

As a woman, what I'm really looking for in a guy is someone with whom I share things -- interests, activities, opinions. So the time/place I'm going to be most open to meeting someone is DOING those things. I'm passionate about politics, for example -- I enjoy volunteering for campaigns. If a fellow volunteer is interested in me, it's very easy for him to arrange for us to have contact while we're working. Then it's natural to talk about the campaign issues, veer into more personal territory, end up having coffee or drinks later. If that goes well, I'll want to see him again. The point is that I feel like we're fellow human beings enjoying each other's company, not like some sort of target.

And for the record, it's not unusual to not have a car or a ton of money at age 20. Any woman who expects you to is probably not going to be someone you really want a relationship anyway. Also, looks are relative. If a guy has a great personality and treats me well, I'll find him attractive.

Good luck!

 

[Primalex]

I've tried asking several girls out, but I've only ever dated this ONE girl and after a few weeks she totally stopped talking to me, and to be honest it kind of sucks.

No offense, but weeks without even a kiss? No wonder she didn't want to wait any longer.

Anyway, I wouldn't worry too much. When you are 30, come here and ask again.

 

[WriterDom]

Studies have shown if you don't get your first kiss before you are 21 you'll likely turn gay.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

Hi ShitHitsFan,

I think the other posters are right about the desperation vibe. One of the things I found when I was younger and dated shy guys was that as soon as you become an item, you become everything to that guy because his circle of friends is limited and he wants to be in a successful relationship so much that he's prepared to overlook any number of fundamental incompatibilities. This type tends to be highly strung and needy, they need constant reassurance, which is draining on the person expected to give it. They feel unworthy and panic constantly that you're going to break up with them or that you'll meet someone 'better' and fall for them instead. The sure sign of one of these guys is when you tell them that things aren't working out and they decide that their life is over, spiralling into depression and convinced that they were right all along about being unworthy and that they'll never meet anyone else. This drives them into another revolution of the same desperate cycle.

I am not saying that this is you but these are the things that put many girls off of shy guys with lo self esteem. The biggest problem you have is your belief that you're unworthy of love. I'm now nearly 30. I don't own my house or drive a car. I don't make much money. I don't spend that much time, effort or cash on my appearance and I honestly couldn't give a shit about any of those things. I attracted my Master and my relationship partners before him by being warm, genuine, independent and happy with myself.

If you don't have self respect and trust in your character and intentions, you're a crap marketing agent for yourself. Just because others are alpha, doesn't mean you have to be at the opposite end of the spectrum. You're ahead of the game anyway at 20 because most guys are more bothered about sexual conquest and scoring points with their friends. They're not looking for long term relationships.

Just relax. Remember that you have the rest of your life to figure this shit out in your own damn time. Make a point of getting out and socialising with new people more but just chill, enjoy being young and single and stop desperately seeking any-fucking-body because if there's one thing that repels women, it's the knowledge that a guy has such little self worth that he'll fall gratefully at the feet of the first woman who pays him attention. Girls like to feel special and valued. They are not enamoured of the notion that anyone will do.

As soon as you relax, widen your social circle a little and STOP LOOKING in every corner like a drunk turning the house upside down for booze, that's when you'll meet someone. It'll be because you look friendly, approachable, attractive and fun to be around.

 

[Duvet_Thief]

+1 to much of what has been said here...

As people have said, appearing desperate is going to guarantee rejection! But I know from personal experience (I lost my virginity when I was 20 or 21... see, I can't even remember! it doesn't really matter) that it's inevtiable to just want to lose the damn thing!

But you sound an interesting, intelligent, nice guy, and not really lacking in self-confidence. There's probably nothing wrong with you!

I think the whole point is not to appear to be coming on to women, and to make them comfortable. "Would you like to go on a date????!" is a far more stress-inducing invitation for a woman than "I'll be in such and such a bar with some friends, feel free to join us."
By all means include other people: hang out with friends, and ask THEM to bring some female friends along: you might be unlikely to click, but at least you can learn to relax in women's company...

Good luck, and don't stress about it too much! You're young, there's nothing wrong with you. Enjoy living your life and other people will find you irresistable.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

"Would you like to go on a date????!" is a far more stress-inducing invitation for a woman than "I'll be in such and such a bar with some friends, feel free to join us."

Very true. It's possible to ask a girl out without actually asking her out if you're sneaky. That way, neither of you loses face.

 

[shithitsfan]

Thanks so much for all the encouragement and advice guys, I never thought so many would come to my aid...

But yeah I guess its true most 'alpha male' types (ok I'm catagorizing but yeah) would'nt look for a LTR, but some of my friends who WERE those types are actually finding nice stable relationships to settle down in, and to think that I have not even experienced a single bit of dating is just downright depressing... and it contributes to the 'desperation vibe' that you guys seem to talk about, so for me, its about getting out of this vicious cycle...

To think I actually tried to act arrogant and insensitive once, just to try being the 'confident, arrogant alpha' but looking back that was plain stupid and so unlike me(and did'nt yield any results; maybe I could'nt pull it off haha).

Oh and weeks without a kiss; I really have no idea how to do it, much less the sex...

"I always think its interesting how a guy that over 18 and still a virgin is kind of looked down on by society. Yet if your a girl and over 18 and your a virgin (like myself...) you're pure or whatever."

That is just so true why did'nt I think of that before haha

But I still have no idea how to approach people that I dont really know (more like a friend of a friend) besides the ususal "Hi my name is..." etc, which gets awkward sometimes...

Oh and the sneaky date trick sounds interesting, though you'd still have to approach the girl for a conversation alone... =)

 

[human_male]

I don't think twenty is young to still be a virgin so don't feel bad. But don't give up. Keep trying. Try not to come off desperate sure but you don't want to be fifteen years down the line and still be in the same boat and wondering what the fuck happened.

I wish you well.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

But I still have no idea how to approach people that I dont really know (more like a friend of a friend) besides the ususal "Hi my name is..." etc, which gets awkward sometimes...

I think one of the best things is to appear interesting as opposed to interested. Girls are not an alien species and you can talk to them about most things in exactly the same way you talk to guys. If you appear relaxed, happy, approachable and that you are an intelligent person with something to say for yourself, that'll go further for you than learning a load of chat up lines.

If you ask a girl out before you've chatted casually and got to know her, she'll wonder why you're interested already. She'll either catch on to the 'desperately seeking' vibe or she'll think you're shallow and aren't interested in her as a person, neither of which is true.

Join a club or hobby group you're interested in, cycle or walk the dog every day. Dogs are good tools incidentally. Walking a dog gives you a reason to be out strolling alone and most girls will find you more approachable. Make a point of holding someone's gaze and smiling when they look at you instead of lowering your eyes. Allow yourself to be drawn into conversation and chat rather than answering and then falling silent if a girl exchanges pleasantries in passing. There are lots of little things you can do that will become more natural and feel less false as time goes on.

 

[razor_nut]

All I could really add or reinforce is to be patient. I was 26 when my first time finally happened, with an amazing woman I'm completely in love with to boot!
Persevere, be patient, be positive!

 

[subwannabe]

I agree with the desperation thing. I don't think it's really necessary to go out and find strangers. That can be difficult for most people who aren't introverted. It sounds to me like you have several "friends" already. I would try using that to my advantage by being friends with their friends and their friends. Somewhere along the line that will translate into female friends and hopefully dates. Don't panic just because of your age as we get back to the women smelling desperation thing all over again. I kissed my first girl in the fifth grade, didn't have sex until I was 25. I had the virgin stigma in my mind a lot back in those years but I can honestly say I'm glad I didn't make the mistakes a lot of my friends made and eventually had to pay the price. Also, I lost the opportunity to date this girl in high school who I really had the hots for, by trying to be someone I wasn't, Mr. Tough Guy. One of my friends was upset with this other guy and I decided to be that Mr. Tough Guy. I knew this person was coming into my school room and just as I saw them entering I let out the most meanest, thoughest look on my face you could possibly imagine. My face immdediatlely turned to utter horror as the person who had walked into the room turned out to be that girl I had the hots for. That was the end of that opportunity and I learned a valuable lesson.

 

[SoleDesire]

Oh and weeks without a kiss; I really have no idea how to do it, much less the sex...

But I still have no idea how to approach people that I dont really know (more like a friend of a friend) besides the ususal "Hi my name is..." etc, which gets awkward sometimes...

Oh and the sneaky date trick sounds interesting, though you'd still have to approach the girl for a conversation alone... =)

What's coming across here is that maybe you find women, as a gender, really intimidating. A good place for you to start might be to make some female friends. NOT for any ulterior purpose, just to get used to talking to women. As someone said, we're not an alien species. We share many of the same interests and traits as men, actually, and you can treat us the same way in many situations.

For example: what do you do when you see a guy you don't really know but want to talk to? Don't you say "Hey, aren't you such-and-so's friend? We met at whatever-event..."? And you go from there. Works the same way with women.

Also, who told you that you had to get a woman alone to ask her for a date, sneaky or otherwise? All you have to do is say "Hey, do you want to grab a cup of coffee?" You don't have to pick her off from the herd. Granted, you probably want to be careful with timing or you just end up inviting everyone in the vicinity, but it's not that hard.

The kiss thing will happen when it happens. There's tons of information out there about how to be a good kisser and also how to interpret body language. Same thing with sex. Again, as everyone here has said, if you're putting out the vibe that all you want is a girlfriend, it's going to backfire.

 

[Duvet_Thief]

Totally agree with SoloDesire on this!

Make some female friends! Just to hang out with. In terms of friendship, women respond to pretty much the same things as men: relax, be yourself, do something you enjoy.

I don't know whether you realize how easy people are to chat to:


So I have a challenge for you. An easy one!

I'm sure you DO speak to women in your everyday life: at work, at a cash register in a supermarket, the barista at a Starbucks, a waitress, whatever.
Simply double the length of your interaction with them (regardless of whether you find them attractive or not, okay?)

So, instead of telling your waitress "I'll have the burger and a coke, please," say "If you had to choose between the burger and the steak sandwich, which would you choose?" She'll reply. Maybe ask her why she chose that one. Smile. If you're feeling cheeky, pick whichever one she didn't recommend. Smile. Relax.

Or in the supermarket checkout, instead of just paying and leaving, say "It's pretty busy, huh?" (or not) and see what they say.

No need to overdo it, just relax and have SLIGHTLY longer conversations with people. There's no creepy subtext. Certainly no innuendo. Just chat. You will realize:

a) It's easy.
b) People LIKE interacting with smiling, friendly people.
c) It makes you feel good to interact with people.
d) It makes THEM feel good.
c) Talking to strangers needn't be a big deal.

I know getting to know women if you're attracted to them is a slightly different matter, but the principles are the same, and it will give you confidence to realize how easily you can build up friendly relations with people.

Let me know how it goes!

 

[Taterpatch]

Hey Bud, dont give up your hopes! I have always been a shy guy and not the most popular in school, but dont let your self get down. I always had my eyes on girls that I knew, but was always to shy and always had the fear of rejection. One of my close friends always had girls all over him, and I asked him how he does it. He said," just walk up to any girl with your mind set that NO girl is too good for you". Well one night I worked up the guts and tried it, and boy was I shocked! That year I got with more girls than I ever had thought possible. It was even making some of my buds jealous. Its a skill that you learn, its just hard to get up the nerve and push yourself over the edge. Once your there, you like," Damn, what took me so long?" LOL Any ways, that was a while ago and now I am "Married with children". Good Luck!

 

[mrcaj]

Lucky

Well I'm going into my 20th birthday and, sad to say, I'm still a virgin, never had a serious relationship, never kissed any girl, and (as far as I know) never had a girl whom I fancied to reciprocate.

I was lucky. As a teenager the first girl I invited over to my house after school screwed the heck out of me within a few minutes of getting there.

As others said, I think girls (and guys) are drawn to confident people. It's difficult to hunt for a companion when you are out of your element. Do what you like and try to meet others who are doing the same thing. Or, meet girls at common places (yes, even the supermarket) and invite them to join you in your favorite activities.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I don't know whether you realize how easy people are to chat to:


So I have a challenge for you. An easy one!

I'm sure you DO speak to women in your everyday life: at work, at a cash register in a supermarket, the barista at a Starbucks, a waitress, whatever.
Simply double the length of your interaction with them (regardless of whether you find them attractive or not, okay?)

So, instead of telling your waitress "I'll have the burger and a coke, please," say "If you had to choose between the burger and the steak sandwich, which would you choose?" She'll reply. Maybe ask her why she chose that one. Smile. If you're feeling cheeky, pick whichever one she didn't recommend. Smile. Relax.

Or in the supermarket checkout, instead of just paying and leaving, say "It's pretty busy, huh?" (or not) and see what they say.

I think this is excellent advice. Many people find it a bit awkward to talk to someone they don´t know. It does take some practice to get that social smalltalk to flow.
I don´t think you have this really great special approach for a girl you find interesting either. Most people don´t expect everything that comes out of your mouth to be really smart and funny and those who do will be very tiresome to be around anyway.

 

[but_a_dream]

Well, I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but whatever.

I think the best thing to do is not to stress so much. You sound like a smart guy, who's interested in a lot of different things. So I say, throw yourself headlong into the activities you're passionate about. This will serve two purposes: first, it'll get your mind off the whole "holy shit I'm halfway to the 40-year-old-virgin!" thing, and onto more productive (for yourself and for society) things; and second, it'll provide opportunities to meet like-minded people who are active, interesting, and passionate about life - in other words, potential friends (and yes, potential girlfriends).

Just to give a few solid examples of things you could do: join a recreational soccer team (you're 20 - are you in college? If so, look into co-ed intramurals), join a cycling or running club (you mentioned you like working out), join a photography club or take a photography class, volunteer for a cause you can get behind, etc.

Also, be patient. When you ask about how to ask a stranger out, I kind of cringe - sure, some hook-ups start this way, but most relationships don't (at least most of mine haven't). I think it's better to let things evolve in a more organic fashion. So be patient. The first time you talk to a girl you might be interested in, just have a casual conversation (Duvet_Thief gave some excellent advice on how to practice this in situations where you needn't fear rejection). Be nice, be funny, but be desireless. Arouse her curiosity, and then go on your way. You'll see her again - maybe in a few days, maybe in a week or two - and when you do, things will flow naturally, because you've planted the seeds of curiosity.

So there's my restatement of the excellent advice in this thread Good luck.