Hello Nurse

[Netzach]

In post 12, she wrote: "And yet, even in the late 90's, if I said I was a nurse, someone was bound to ask me if I had a uniform I could put on for them or any 'toys'... you know, like stethoscopes or clamps... that we could play with."

I could be wrong, but also this doesn't sound like something taking place IN the workplace at all, but rather the general dipshittery of the populace in its after-hours incarnations. Which you can't expect a lot from.

The demeaning bullshit one's treated to at work doesn't have to be sexual at all. And thus perfectly legal.

And again, my perspective is certainly someone who has a few bones to pick in terms of how her profession has been defined by others.

 

[Netzach]

In a way, isn't "Dominatrix" simply the "naughty nurse" of Dominant women?

 

[EmpressFi]

I could be wrong, but also this doesn't sound like something taking place IN the workplace at all, but rather the general dipshittery of the populace in its after-hours incarnations. Which you can't expect a lot from.

The demeaning bullshit one's treated to at work doesn't have to be sexual at all. And thus perfectly legal.

And again, my perspective is certainly someone who has a few bones to pick in terms of how her profession has been defined by others.

actually no.. it happened in the workplace too.. though it's easier to "remind" someone to treat you like a trained professional when you're sticking catheters into their penises or starting IV's in their arms, etc.

 

[JMohegan]

And with all right to be. There's a pretty wide swath of overzealousness in the creation and theorizing of said laws and still somehow women are subject to quid pro quo harrassment, totally vulgar commentary and everything as before these wonderfully protective laws. Even workplace rape and assault, they still manage to continue. Treating a dumbass with a naughty nurse joke the same way you'd treat quid pro quo sexual innuendo ( you really could go places in our company) isn't appropriate, to me.

Being a dipshit doesn't necessarily create a hostile environment. Continuing to be a dipshit intentionally over and over when called to the carpet, joining in with friends to create a pervasive and hostile coterie of dipshittery - those begin to be quite clear and obvious. When you've experienced them you know it. It's another animal than the clueless joker who doesn't really know better doing it once.

I'm becoming kind of an enforcement versus legislation nut, lately. All the laws of the land still don't seem to do anything for our food supply if you look at peanuts, but one Georgia based motherfucker facing extradition to every state where people died for trial for manslaughter might.

As a guy who's spent years in both large corporations and his own small consulting firm, I've sat in on, and conducted, more sexual harassment workshops, meetings, and info sessions than I could possibly mention.

Quid pro quo SH is much, much cleaner. Easier to define, easier for everybody on both sides to understand.

Hostile environment SH is a right royal pain in the ass for the non-dick worker, and a playground for the dick.

The guy who just got off the bus from South Carolina may not be *trying* to act like a condescending asshole when he says "Thank you, darlin" in response to the secretarial staff. But he'll get slammed for it a lot faster than the dick who purposefully makes lewd comments in private.

I agree with you that enforcement is the way to go, but enforcement is a lot tougher when the guy knows exactly what he's doing, and is therefore taking steps to avoid getting caught.

And I agree about the peanut guy. Not only should he be prosecuted, he should be locked up with murderers, rather than tax evaders or some other type of corporate cheat.

 

[Netzach]

actually no.. it happened in the workplace too.. though it's easier to "remind" someone to treat you like a trained professional when you're sticking catheters into their penises or starting IV's in their arms, etc.

Other pt's always scared me with just how damn stupid some people can actually be.

 

[JMohegan]

Treating a dumbass with a naughty nurse joke the same way you'd treat quid pro quo sexual innuendo ( you really could go places in our company) isn't appropriate, to me.

I don't know anyone who treats those the same, or would advocate treating them the same.

Netzach, if you're advocating expansion of society's vocabulary, to distinguish between those two more clearly, I'm happy to listen.

But in my experience, whether in a school, workplace, community service, or any other organized context, "harassment" is a word that has been used to include both quid pro quo AND things like unwanted naughty nurse jokes. And this has been true for more than 30 years.

I first heard the term sexual harassment in college. A quick google to see if the topic still resonates on campuses today uncovered this. God, that brings back memories of so many nasty fights. In a campus context, attempts at SH regulation have never made sense to me. Information, yes. Regulation, no. If asked for a vote on this subject, I would oppose it to this day.

 

[Betticus]

uhm, thanks? That was a complement, right?

We should go out for a nice evening with some wine and a few friends.

And something I just found, not sure if it's your taste.

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/618/813/26/pQ4ieqyCi0pQDUM.jpg

 

[Netzach]

I don't know anyone who treats those the same, or would advocate treating them the same.

Netzach, if you're advocating expansion of society's vocabulary, to distinguish between those two more clearly, I'm happy to listen.

But in my experience, whether in a school, workplace, community service, or any other organized context, "harassment" is a word that has been used to include both quid pro quo AND things like unwanted naughty nurse jokes. And this has been true for more than 30 years.

I first heard the term sexual harassment in college. A quick google to see if the topic still resonates on campuses today uncovered this. God, that brings back memories of so many nasty fights. In a campus context, attempts at SH regulation have never made sense to me. Information, yes. Regulation, no. If asked for a vote on this subject, I would oppose it to this day.

I just wonder if we spent less time in the grey areas, and more time on refining existing policy on stalking, intimidation and assault there might be more shift in terms of peer pressure.

Again, I've been in the situation of all kinds of things being assumed about me in a crass, joking, and vulgar manner because of my choice of work - work which I to this day believe helped people, maybe not as obviously and directly as nursing nor as selflessly, but still -

AND I've been in the situation of having things grabbed that should not have been, having lines blurred that should not have been, and because I was in a grey market and voluntarily so- having nothing but the force of my personality and five foot four of me to back me up and make it STOP.

Those things weren't even close - to me, personally. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Netzach]

Oh, and there are definitely things about the quintissential "Domme" of pro-world fantasy that annoy the shit out of me and things that I find alluring and hot and seductive to myself. The relationship I have to that is FILLED with peeve and enjoyment both - very complex.

 

[00Syd]

We should go out for a nice evening with some wine and a few friends.

And something I just found, not sure if it's your taste.

http://i1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/618/813/26/pQ4ieqyCi0pQDUM.jpg

I would love to. Let me know the next time your on the East Coast, haha

And no, its not really my style, but I appreciate the thought anyhow!

 

[Keroin]

Helllllloooooo stuntgirl!

Anyone?

No?

Fine.

p.s. 00Syd, I've ordered five cases of Veuve for our UN brainstorming session on the south of France, do you think that will be enough? And I'm thinking we'll probably need some massage therapists as this will, no doubt, be stressful work. Your input on this matter would be appreciated.

p.p.s still working on securing funding but I'm hopeful!

 

[00Syd]

Helllllloooooo stuntgirl!

Anyone?

No?

Fine.

p.s. 00Syd, I've ordered five cases of Veuve for our UN brainstorming session on the south of France, do you think that will be enough? And I'm thinking we'll probably need some massage therapists as this will, no doubt, be stressful work. Your input on this matter would be appreciated.

p.p.s still working on securing funding but I'm hopeful!

I think that some massage therapists would really help us come up with some good ideas. I say get them.

I have faith in you!

 

[JMohegan]

I just wonder if we spent less time in the grey areas, and more time on refining existing policy on stalking, intimidation and assault there might be more shift in terms of peer pressure.

Again, I've been in the situation of all kinds of things being assumed about me in a crass, joking, and vulgar manner because of my choice of work - work which I to this day believe helped people, maybe not as obviously and directly as nursing nor as selflessly, but still -

AND I've been in the situation of having things grabbed that should not have been, having lines blurred that should not have been, and because I was in a grey market and voluntarily so- having nothing but the force of my personality and five foot four of me to back me up and make it STOP.

Those things weren't even close - to me, personally. That's all I'm saying.

I don't wonder, I *know* that what you are saying is right.

SH on my campus included verbal harassment, the rules for which went something like this. Somewhere beyond smiling & respectfully saying "you look nice today, Netzach," there's a line. We can't tell you exactly where that line is (oh, and by the way, the placement differs from female to female). However, if you cross that line, then your ass can be hauled in front of the administration and sanctions applied.

Why on god's green earth would you want to foster disrespect for the grabbing = assault concept, by lumping it in with this other bullshit? And anyway, what makes anyone think they could fairly regulate the distinction between awkward social advances and verbal dipshittery among college males?

 

[Keroin]

I think that some massage therapists would really help us come up with some good ideas. I say get them.

I have faith in you!

Well, 00Syd, bad news. I was thinking we could get a chunk of the money your new Prez is handing out but it turns out it is a stimulus bill and not a stimulation bill, as I had thought. Who knew? Anyway, they turned me down flat.

I have a back up plan, though. Tonight I am going to drink several martinis and eat a bag of potato chips, while thinking very important thoughts. You are welcome to do the same, with the beverage and junk food of your choice. Together we can solve this problem of…um, what was it we were going to do again, exactly?

 

[00Syd]

Well, 00Syd, bad news. I was thinking we could get a chunk of the money your new Prez is handing out but it turns out it is a stimulus bill and not a stimulation bill, as I had thought. Who knew? Anyway, they turned me down flat.

I have a back up plan, though. Tonight I am going to drink several martinis and eat a bag of potato chips, while thinking very important thoughts. You are welcome to do the same, with the beverage and junk food of your choice. Together we can solve this problem of…um, what was it we were going to do again, exactly?

Uhmmm... uh.... something of great import, I know that.

 

[LilyBart]

I just wonder if we spent less time in the grey areas, and more time on refining existing policy on stalking, intimidation and assault there might be more shift in terms of peer pressure.

Again, I've been in the situation of all kinds of things being assumed about me in a crass, joking, and vulgar manner because of my choice of work - work which I to this day believe helped people, maybe not as obviously and directly as nursing nor as selflessly, but still -

AND I've been in the situation of having things grabbed that should not have been, having lines blurred that should not have been, and because I was in a grey market and voluntarily so- having nothing but the force of my personality and five foot four of me to back me up and make it STOP.

Those things weren't even close - to me, personally. That's all I'm saying.

I don't wonder, I *know* that what you are saying is right.

SH on my campus included verbal harassment, the rules for which went something like this. Somewhere beyond smiling & respectfully saying "you look nice today, Netzach," there's a line. We can't tell you exactly where that line is (oh, and by the way, the placement differs from female to female). However, if you cross that line, then your ass can be hauled in front of the administration and sanctions applied.

Why on god's green earth would you want to foster disrespect for the grabbing = assault concept, by lumping it in with this other bullshit? And anyway, what makes anyone think they could fairly regulate the distinction between awkward social advances and verbal dipshittery among college males?

Yes.
And yes.

Having been blatantly harassed in the workplace in my youth (the, "you could go far if" ...statement)...and seeing my daughters harassed today. The lack of progression is mind-boggling.

Women have made great strides in the last century ( a century being one hundred freaking years)...but it is all related to mostly legal issues. Sociologically, we still have a very long way to go.

There are socially deficient people, men and women, who will continue to populate the earth. And some of these are the people that are unable to understand the significance that Fi or Netz or any other woman (or man) of any other profession plays in their lives.

And I am in favor of Netz's earlier post on enforcement.

But I am pretty sure enforcement of no more college-aged dipshittery is potentially a new area of study. Mostly (but not always, among boys).

~Last paragraph written in my parent voice.~

~LB