Health Care

R. Richard

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I got this from Yahoo. I was shocked and I would urge everyone in Literorica to read it and then peep.

5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

If you read the fine print in the Congressional plans, you'll find that a lot of cherished aspects of the current system would disappear.

In promoting his health-care agenda, President Obama has repeatedly reassured Americans that they can keep their existing health plans -- and that the benefits and access they prize will be enhanced through reform.

A close reading of the two main bills, one backed by Democrats in the House and the other issued by Sen. Edward Kennedy's Health committee, contradict the President's assurances. To be sure, it isn't easy to comb through their 2,000 pages of tortured legal language. But page by page, the bills reveal a web of restrictions, fines, and mandates that would radically change your health-care coverage.

If you prize choosing your own cardiologist or urologist under your company's Preferred Provider Organization plan (PPO), if your employer rewards your non-smoking, healthy lifestyle with reduced premiums, if you love the bargain Health Savings Account (HSA) that insures you just for the essentials, or if you simply take comfort in the freedom to spend your own money for a policy that covers the newest drugs and diagnostic tests -- you may be shocked to learn that you could lose all of those good things under the rules proposed in the two bills that herald a health-care revolution.

In short, the Obama platform would mandate extremely full, expensive, and highly subsidized coverage -- including a lot of benefits people would never pay for with their own money -- but deliver it through a highly restrictive, HMO-style plan that will determine what care and tests you can and can't have. It's a revolution, all right, but in the wrong direction.

Let's explore the five freedoms that Americans would lose under Obamacare:

1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan

The bills in both houses require that Americans purchase insurance through "qualified" plans offered by health-care "exchanges" that would be set up in each state. The rub is that the plans can't really compete based on what they offer. The reason: The federal government will impose a minimum list of benefits that each plan is required to offer.

Today, many states require these "standard benefits packages" -- and they're a major cause for the rise in health-care costs. Every group, from chiropractors to alcohol-abuse counselors, do lobbying to get included. Connecticut, for example, requires reimbursement for hair transplants, hearing aids, and in vitro fertilization.

The Senate bill would require coverage for prescription drugs, mental-health benefits, and substance-abuse services. It also requires policies to insure "children" until the age of 26. That's just the starting list. The bills would allow the Department of Health and Human Services to add to the list of required benefits, based on recommendations from a committee of experts. Americans, therefore, wouldn't even know what's in their plans and what they're required to pay for, directly or indirectly, until after the bills become law.

2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs

As with the previous example, the Obama plan enshrines into federal law one of the worst features of state legislation: community rating. Eleven states, ranging from New York to Oregon, have some form of community rating. In its purest form, community rating requires that all patients pay the same rates for their level of coverage regardless of their age or medical condition.

Americans with pre-existing conditions need subsidies under any plan, but community rating is a dubious way to bring fairness to health care. The reason is twofold: First, it forces young people, who typically have lower incomes than older workers, to pay far more than their actual cost, and gives older workers, who can afford to pay more, a big discount. The state laws gouging the young are a major reason so many of them have joined the ranks of uninsured.

Under the Senate plan, insurers would be barred from charging any more than twice as much for one patient vs. any other patient with the same coverage. So if a 20-year-old who costs just $800 a year to insure is forced to pay $2,500, a 62-year-old who costs $7,500 would pay no more than $5,000.

Second, the bills would ban insurers from charging differing premiums based on the health of their customers. Again, that's understandable for folks with diabetes or cancer. But the bills would bar rewarding people who pursue a healthy lifestyle of exercise or a cholesterol-conscious diet. That's hardly a formula for lower costs. It's as if car insurers had to charge the same rates to safe drivers as to chronic speeders with a history of accidents.

3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage

The bills threaten to eliminate the one part of the market truly driven by consumers spending their own money. That's what makes a market, and health care needs more of it, not less.

Hundreds of companies now offer Health Savings Accounts to about 5 million employees. Those workers deposit tax-free money in the accounts and get a matching contribution from their employer. They can use the funds to buy a high-deductible plan -- say for major medical costs over $12,000. Preventive care is reimbursed, but patients pay all other routine doctor visits and tests with their own money from the HSA account. As a result, HSA users are far more cost-conscious than customers who are reimbursed for the majority of their care.

The bills seriously endanger the trend toward consumer-driven care in general. By requiring minimum packages, they would prevent patients from choosing stripped-down plans that cover only major medical expenses. "The government could set extremely low deductibles that would eliminate HSAs," says John Goodman of the National Center for Policy Analysis, a free-market research group. "And they could do it after the bills are passed."

4. Freedom to keep your existing plan

This is the freedom that the President keeps emphasizing. Yet the bills appear to say otherwise. It's worth diving into the weeds -- the territory where most pundits and politicians don't seem to have ventured.

The legislation divides the insured into two main groups, and those two groups are treated differently with respect to their current plans. The first are employees covered by the Employee Retirement Security Act of 1974. ERISA regulates companies that are self-insured, meaning they pay claims out of their cash flow, and don't have real insurance. Those are the GEs and Time Warners and most other big companies.

The House bill states that employees covered by ERISA plans are "grandfathered." Under ERISA, the plans can do pretty much what they want -- they're exempt from standard packages and community rating and can reward employees for healthy lifestyles even in restrictive states.

But read on.

The bill gives ERISA employers a five-year grace period when they can keep offering plans free from the restrictions of the "qualified" policies offered on the exchanges. But after five years, they would have to offer only approved plans, with the myriad rules we've already discussed. So for Americans in large corporations, "keeping your own plan" has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you'll get dumped into the exchange. As we'll see, it could happen a lot earlier.

The outlook is worse for the second group. It encompasses employees who aren't under ERISA but get actual insurance either on their own or through small businesses. After the legislation passes, all insurers that offer a wide range of plans to these employees will be forced to offer only "qualified" plans to new customers, via the exchanges.

The employees who got their coverage before the law goes into effect can keep their plans, but once again, there's a catch. If the plan changes in any way -- by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug -- the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months.

5. Freedom to choose your doctors

The Senate bill requires that Americans buying through the exchanges -- and as we've seen, that will soon be most Americans -- must get their care through something called "medical home." Medical home is similar to an HMO. You're assigned a primary care doctor, and the doctor controls your access to specialists. The primary care physicians will decide which services, like MRIs and other diagnostic scans, are best for you, and will decide when you really need to see a cardiologists or orthopedists.

Under the proposals, the gatekeepers would theoretically guide patients to tests and treatments that have proved most cost-effective. The danger is that doctors will be financially rewarded for denying care, as were HMO physicians more than a decade ago. It was consumer outrage over despotic gatekeepers that made the HMOs so unpopular, and killed what was billed as the solution to America's health-care cost explosion.

The bills do not specifically rule out fee-for-service plans as options to be offered through the exchanges. But remember, those plans -- if they exist -- would be barred from charging sick or elderly patients more than young and healthy ones. So patients would be inclined to game the system, staying in the HMO while they're healthy and switching to fee-for-service when they become seriously ill. "That would kill fee-for-service in a hurry," says Goodman.

In reality, the flexible, employer-based plans that now dominate the landscape, and that Americans so cherish, could disappear far faster than the 5 year "grace period" that's barely being discussed.

Companies would have the option of paying an 8% payroll tax into a fund that pays for coverage for Americans who aren't covered by their employers. It won't happen right away -- large companies must wait a couple of years before they opt out. But it will happen, since it's likely that the tax will rise a lot more slowly than corporate health-care costs, especially since they'll be lobbying Washington to keep the tax under control in the righteous name of job creation.

The best solution is to move to a let-freedom-ring regime of high deductibles, no community rating, no standard benefits, and cross-state shopping for bargains (another market-based reform that's strictly taboo in the bills). I'll propose my own solution in another piece soon on Fortune.com. For now, we suffer with a flawed health-care system, but we still have our Five Freedoms. Call them the Five Endangered Freedoms.
 
Don't put us out of our cushy jobs, folks! Think of our Lexusses, and Cadillacs! Think of our children's Ivey League educations! Think of all that luxury we've been living in! You wouldn't want to take that away from us, would you?

Oh, and you guys who can't afford health care at all?

God loves you, your ills will be cured in heaven.

This public service announcement was brought to you by those loving, caring, folks at Blue Cross.

Who can see their cash cow leaving for better pastures.
 
Two questions...

1. How many people leave the US to have their healthcare needs met?

2. Why does everyone come her to have their healthcare taken care of immediately?
 
Let's see, under my current health plan....

1. Freedom to choose what's in your plan

Don't have that in my current Insurance plan. They have plans and what's in 'em is up to them, not me. Talk to my father. He can't even pick what medicines the insurance will pay for--THEY pick what medicines they'll pay for. No freedom lost there, it's already gone.

2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs

Don't have that either. Oh, I do have the freedom to pay my real costs--especially when my Health insurance denies me and refuses to pay. I pay and pay all kinds of costs, though I don't know if any are "real costs." Seems the Insurance guys have raised rates so that their top executives get paid more. I pay them...and I wait breathless to see if I'll get any of that money back to pay for my doctor bills...after the huge deduction, of course.

So, won't lose that freedom. Don't got it.

3. Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage

Well, yes. I would lose that. *sigh* All that money I pay out for insurance, and for deductibles. How will I live without that freedom?

4. Freedom to keep your existing plan

Why would I wanna do that? The whole idea of this is to give me Freedom FROM my existing plan! Please!

5. Freedom to choose your doctors

Again, don't have that freedom now. HMO says I have to go with their doctors.

Sorry, RR, but none of this scares me. I know what I've got and I know how bad it is, and it, given my family's medical history has me scared shitless. I see what my old uncle is getting and my father, and I see my future relying on these insurance companies as terrifying. Far, far, FAR worse than this. Would I like better? I sure would. I'd love the very best. But I'll take anything that frees me and my doctors from the tyranny of greedy HMO's that take all my money and try every which way to deny it to me when I need it most. And you know what...I'd like to know where Yahoo got this report before I believe anything it's telling me to fear.

You're a bias source; you're absolutely against it and even if every fact said that this was the most amazing health plan every created, you'd find the one report that twisted those facts into a horror story and post it. So forgive me if I'm not going to take what you've posted on this as a valid analysis that I should trust.
 
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Don't put us out of our cushy jobs, folks! Think of our Lexusses, and Cadillacs! Think of our children's Ivey League educations! Think of all that luxury we've been living in! You wouldn't want to take that away from us, would you?

Oh, and you guys who can't afford health care at all?

God loves you, your ills will be cured in heaven.

This public service announcement was brought to you by those loving, caring, folks at Blue Cross.

Who can see their cash cow leaving for better pastures.



Yep.

Depending upon their employer, many people have fewer choices NOW.

Our premiums have quadrupled in the past ten years. We're healthy, don't smoke, aren't too far above optimum weight, have low cholesterol and blood pressure and until this year, relatively few medical costs.

Quadrupled premiums? They claim it is because of some catastrophic illnesses each year, and I'm certain they'll use hubby's surgeries as fodder for trying to increase next year's premiums.

And that's ludicrous. I'm talking about thousands of employees in a district with nearly 40 schools and assorted administration buildings.

The insurance company is doing just fine, thank you very much.

But as for our medical coverage now? We have NO choice over what procedures are covered.

The choice between low/high deductible makes no sense because of the exceptional cost difference in premiums.

We have no choice of doctors. If they aren't part of the plan, tough.

The district did finally change prescription drug coverage away from Blue Cross because they were attempting to raise generic drug costs to ridiculous levels.

I don't see much difference between what the government is planning and what any large corporation or business is already offering.

Edited to add - except that every person in this country would be covered. Everyone would be able to receive medical treatment.
 
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Two questions...

1. How many people leave the US to have their healthcare needs met?

2. Why does everyone come her to have their healthcare taken care of immediately?

two answers;
1; I got excellent dental care in the UK, and the dentist apologised for having to charge me 9 pounds because I was a non-resident The work has lasted three decades, unlike similar work I've gotten here in the US for hundreds of dollars. At this time I have put off dental care for about eight years because I can't afford it-- my rent and my kids come first.

I am paying off a ten thousand dollar emergency hospital visit, a hundred bucks a month. For ten grand you'd think I'd be able to use the finger more fully. :rolleyes: I forwent the therapy, i couldn't afford it.

2 Who is this "everyone" you speak of? One or two people Faux news told you about?

(eta)

My guess is that rrichard has no one to look after but himself, no compromises to make, steak on the table every night-- for one.
 
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This by the way is why I want to know Yahoo's source for all those points.

Who did the analysis you quoted? Surely not Yahoo. Interestingly, there seems to be one and only one very bias source for all the negatives being sited about health care. Is there a different source on this analysis? If so, who? And who paid for it? And where did it come from? And how much was Yahoo paid to run it? :confused:
 
I was right!

The Lewin Group which the washington post and fauxnews both are calling "nonpartisan," is a subsidiary of national health group, who just paid out four hundred million dollars to its clients for overcharging them for insurance. In ONE state.
 


As ususal, the innumerati of the something-for-nothing crowd wants all the rights and none of the responsibilities..., all the freedoms and none of the consequences.

If you believe that insurance is anything other than a savings scheme, you are ignorant. If you expect to get more out of insurance than you put into it, you are a fool. If you think insurance is a form of free lunch, you do not understand actuarial mathematics— you are one of that class of people who believes in the financial equivalent of alchemy ( yes, that same crowd that thought house prices only went in one direction— up, the same crowd that in 1999 thought Internet company stock prices only went up, the same crowd that in 2005 put an interest-only, third mortgage on their home, the same folk who run balances on credit cards ).


Æsop's ants and grasshoppers— all over again.

Over the weekend I ran into a Johns Hopkins physician-scientist. He's about to shut down his lab because the government is overwhelming it with regulation and paperwork. This is a guy who does basic research in hematology. He doesn't have time to do research because government is taking it all in order for him to fill out forms documenting work hours, lab demographics, wages and other minutiae.

___________________


"As the bitch returns to her vomit,
and the sow to her mire,
so the poor fool's bandaged finger,
returns to the fire."


-Rudyard Kipling





 
I got this from Yahoo. I was shocked and I would urge everyone in Literorica to read it and then peep.
5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
2. Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs

Most people have this now. If you are an overweight smoker you pay a higher premium than folks with a healthy lifestyle. It's true of both health and life insurance.

My take on this so called health care reform is simple. If it's not good enough to apply to the President and Congress? It's not good enough for my family.
Those asshats in Washington are employees of we the voters and taxpayers. They are not rulers even tough their imperial style might cause one to think otherwise. They need to be reminded of where they actually stand.
 
From NPR's All Things Considered:

SIEGEL: Here's an interesting question... Why are health care costs growing so fast? Does it have anything to do with the basic economics of scarce supply and high demand? If so, will any of the current reform ideas address supply and demand?

ROVNER: Well, there are lots of PhDs on this subject, and I'm not one of them. But I think it's mostly because health care is what we call an inelastic commodity. We are willing to spend whatever it takes to keep us healthy, particularly if we feel like it's somebody else's money. So, many of us have insurance that we feel like someone else pays for.
 
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I have read all sorts of handwaving claims agains the article I posted. Very little evidence, but a lot of hand waving.

When you pay for health insurance, you're NOT going to get your money's worth, in general. If you are an average health customer, you will wind up paying for the guy who gets Kushinsky's Syndrome. I have no problem with that and, no, I don't envy Kushinsky because he got a lot of expensive treatment for free. However, if you are one of the pathological cases, you do get taken care of.

What I have a problem with is items like this. The proposed government plan basically requires a Social Security card for a person to be treated. If there is an illegal immigrant who doesn't have a fake SS card, he/she/it has to be an illiterate out of the jungles of the Yucatan or someplace. Private insurance will be required to take in anyone, regardless of prexisting conditions. If I have terminal lung cancer from years of smoking, I can't wait to get my treatment for the same money as the people who didn't abuse themselves. Of course, government heath insurance will cost less, because of lower administrative costs. OK, check out the retirement plans for the cities in Texas that opted out of SS, back in the 1970s when that was briefly and option. They must have higher administrative costs than SS. If so, then why is it that they pay out about three times what SS pays and the retiree owns his/her/its retirement money?

The CBO has analyzed the plan the government is proposing and the CBO says, that there is no cost savings.

The government plan will only save money by cutting payments to doctors and hospitals. I don't know about you, but I WANT my doctor to drive a Mercedes V12. If he/she/it can afford the best, likely I'm getting the best. When it comes to my health, the best is none too good. JMNTHO.
 
You damage your case when you post from sources that are in the pockets of the business they defend.

The rest of your argument is your ever-present one; "people who need help don't deserve help."
 
And I for one, finally, agree with Richard...that's why when the options in health plans at my employer include and HMO I rarely pick it as being to restrictive. I go with the PPO or POS plan offered. Much more freedom.

I get to pick my doctor, I get to pick my hospital, I get the same drug plan as an HMO. I don't need a referral to see a specialist.

It's been said before, if it's not good enough for those who draft the plan, then it's not good enough for me and my family. Nor do I consider it good enough for my friends.
 
And I for one, finally, agree with Richard...that's why when the options in health plans at my employer include and HMO I rarely pick it as being to restrictive. I go with the PPO or POS plan offered. Much more freedom.

I get to pick my doctor, I get to pick my hospital, I get the same drug plan as an HMO. I don't need a referral to see a specialist.

It's been said before, if it's not good enough for those who draft the plan, then it's not good enough for me and my family. Nor do I consider it good enough for my friends.
And you pick PPO while getting minimum wage, right? Or more commonly these days, COBRA?
 
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Is that what rrichard thinks, trysail? In your opinion?

Stella,
I have no idea what rrichard thinks.

The health care proposal is yet one more 1,200 page behemoth that nobody has read. John Conyers has said as much. Nobody knows what the hell is in the damn thing. The CBO says it'll cost $1,000,000,000,000 over the next ten years and there's no source of funding.

One way or another, healthcare is going to be rationed ( it already is ). The U.S. simply cannot afford to pay everybody's medical bills. If you don't think healthcare is rationed in countries with national health care systems, you're only kidding yourself.

I chose my physician on the recommendation of my best pal ( who moved out to the Left Coast with his whole family in order to roll the dice in starting a biomedical company— he may go bust, but he does have an M.D. to fall back on if he has to ). I skimp on a lot of medical spending because it IS MY MONEY and I have to spend it wisely. I have a comparatively high deductible and my insurance premiums reflect it.

I know of physicians who will no longer accept ANY form of insurance because they don't want to fool with the reimbursement hassle and the paperwork. They will only accept cash on the barrelhead. These are physicians that my pal ( in his youth ) described derisively as physicians "specializing in diseases of the rich."

My congenital antipathy for bureaucracy of any size, shape or form does not lend itself to a great deal of faith in government solutions or mandates.
 
And you pick PPO while getting minimum wage, right?

No, but I was smart enough to go school and get a education an to keep up with the technology associated with my profession so that I earn more than minimum wage. True I used my GI Bill money to do it, but then I was also brave enough to serve my country.

The way is there is you apply yourself.
 
No, but I was smart enough to go school and get a education an to keep up with the technology associated with my profession so that I earn more than minimum wage. True I used my GI Bill money to do it, but then I was also brave enough to serve my country.

The way is there is you apply yourself.

I applied myself.

My mistake was in choosing to teach, I suppose. Not a lot of financial bang for the bucks I invested.

Silly me. Not deserving of proper health care then?
 
Stella,
I have no idea what rrichard thinks.

The health care proposal is yet one more 1,200 page behemoth that nobody has read. John Conyers has said as much.
I swear, based on the people appointed and the bills passed since January, the motto of this adminstration has to be "rushed and Flawed"!
 
Stella,
I have no idea what rrichard thinks.

The health care proposal is yet one more 1,200 page behemoth that nobody has read. John Conyers has said as much. Nobody knows what the hell is in the damn thing. The CBO says it'll cost $1,000,000,000,000 over the next ten years and there's no source of funding.

One way or another, healthcare is going to be rationed ( it already is ). The U.S. simply cannot afford to pay everybody's medical bills. If you don't think healthcare is rationed in countries with national health care systems, you're only kidding yourself.

I chose my physician on the recommendation of my best pal ( who moved out to the Left Coast with his whole family in order to roll the dice in starting a biomedical company— he may go bust, but he does have an M.D. to fall back on if he has to ). I skimp on a lot of medical spending because it IS MY MONEY and I have to spend it wisely. I have a comparatively high deductible and my insurance premiums reflect it.

I know of physicians who will no longer accept ANY form of insurance because they don't want to fool with the reimbursement hassle and the paperwork. They will only accept cash on the barrelhead. These are physicians that my pal ( in his youth ) described derisively as physicians "specializing in diseases of the rich."

My congenital antipathy for bureaucracy of any size, shape or form does not lend itself to a great deal of faith in government solutions or mandates.
From my side of the fence, rationed health care is still better than none at all. I do without, mostly, that's how I manage my costs.

and Google takes up much of the slack. :D :(
 
No, but I was smart enough to go school and get a education an to keep up with the technology associated with my profession so that I earn more than minimum wage. True I used my GI Bill money to do it, but then I was also brave enough to serve my country.

The way is there is you apply yourself.
Oooh, I clean forgot to apply myself!:rolleyes:
 
From my side of the fence, rationed health care is still better than none at all. I do without, mostly, that's how I manage my costs.

and Google takes up much of the slack. :D :(

Look closely at what is planned for the elderly. When did you plan on getteing refered to hospice instead of treatment? Euthanasia is just around the corner for whomever they deem old and useless, or just too expensive to keep around.
 
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