He closed the door FIRMLY (writerly thread)

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"I believe the road to hell is paved with adverbs, and I will shout it from the rooftops. To put it another way, they're like dandelions. If you have one on your lawn, it looks pretty and unique. If you fail to root it out, however, you find five the next day... fifty the day after that... and then, my brothers and sisters, your lawn is totally, completely, and profligately covered with dandelions. By then you see them for the weeds they really are, but by then it's - GASP!! - too late." ~ Stephen King - On Writing

If you haven't read this book, read it. NOW! I'm currently reading it for the third time and each time I read it I swear I absorb a bit of his soul into mine. That bloke knows what he's talking about.

I love his take on adverbs, and he puts it all in such a way that is so bloody easy to comprehend. None of this bollocks that a lot of "writing manuals" tend to spout. This is good stuff (and a fun read) straight from the horse's mouth (King, not Camilla).

As the thread title says: He closed the door firmly. Spot the evil adverb and banish it from your prose. As King states, it expresses a degree of difference between He closed the door and He slammed the door, but it's all about context and "all the enlightening (not to say emotionally moving) prose which came before He closed the door firmly."

Show, don't tell, in other words. Let the readers know the mood and motivations of the character through the prose, and not through using clumsy (and often redundant) adverbs.

King believes writers use adverbs when they are afraid. When they're afraid they aren't expressing themselves clearly, and are not getting the point across to the reader. Banish that fear. Have faith in your own writing (and in the reader's own imagination/intelligence) that the point is getting across.

DO NOT, EVER, EVER, use adverbs in dialogue attribution. It gets tiresome and detracts the reader from the actual dialogue.

"Hello!" he shouted loudly. How else is he going to shout?

"Oh, hi," she replied meekly. Yes, I imagine she is meek, with someone bellowing a hello at her so loudly.

DON'T DO IT!

Ok, lesson over for today. ;) There's so much more I want to pass on about this book, it's quite brilliant. If you don't own it, buy it. Read it and read it again. Then eat it.

This thread is now open for discussion on adverbs and the craft of writing economic, but lively, evocative prose.

Cheers!

Lou :rose:
 
Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to write like Steven King Jr., and if I want to use an adverb, I'm going to use it.

--Zoot
 
Seconded, Thirded and Fourthded. Whether you like his books or not, On Writing should be the Bible of every fiction writer ever.

The Earl
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to write like Steven King Jr., and if I want to use an adverb, I'm going to use it.

--Zoot

Zoot said emphatically.
 
Often when you have an adverb it's the fault of a weak, neutral verb:

Spoke (quickly?/loudly?/hesitantly?
Walked (measuredly/purposefully/sadly)
Stood
Sat

and especially

Looked

A thesaurus (even shift-F7 in MS Word) is helpful.

But don't forget, glancing wistfully at the cakes in the window is sometimes fine.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't want to write like Steven King Jr., and if I want to use an adverb, I'm going to use it.

--Zoot

You haven't read the book then? You really should. Seriously. He talks a lot about the importance of finding your own style.

Loulou
 
Tatelou said:
"Oh, hi," she replied meekly. Yes, I imagine she is meek, with someone bellowing a hello at her so loudly.

I agree with most of this, except that one. Dialogue is a fuzzy place in the first place, and if you don't describe how they are saying what they are saying, when someone takes your book and turns it into a screen play, it will be horrificly butchered ;)
 
TheEarl said:
Seconded, Thirded and Fourthded. Whether you like his books or not, On Writing should be the Bible of every fiction writer ever.

The Earl

Amen and alleluia.
 
Sub Joe said:
Often when you have an adverb it's the fault of a weak, neutral verb:

Spoke (quickly?/loudly?/hesitantly?
Walked (measuredly/purposefully/sadly)
Stood
Sat

and especially

Looked

A thesaurus (even shift-F7 in MS Word) is helpful.

But don't forget, glancing wistfully at the cakes in the window is sometimes fine.

Well, damn well choose a stronger, more powerful verb, then!
 
tolyk said:
I agree with most of this, except that one. Dialogue is a fuzzy place in the first place, and if you don't describe how they are saying what they are saying, when someone takes your book and turns it into a screen play, it will be horrificly butchered ;)

As stated above, what about the context? What about the prose which came before that?

She could have shuffled her feet and fiddled with her hem, while averting her eyes from his gaze, then said, "Oh, hi."

;)
 
tolyk said:
I agree with most of this, except that one. Dialogue is a fuzzy place in the first place, and if you don't describe how they are saying what they are saying, when someone takes your book and turns it into a screen play, it will be horrificly butchered ;)


.... he said, confidently and hopefully.




Softouch
 
Tatelou said:
As stated above, what about the context? What about the prose which came before that?

She could have shuffled her feet and fiddled with her hem, while averting her eyes from his gaze, then said, "Oh, hi."

;)
What I said was mostly a joke.. I don't underestimate the intelligence of my readers, I do have a low opinion of the people who write bad screenplays out of good novels though. :)
 
tolyk said:
... if you don't describe how they are saying what they are saying, when someone takes your book and turns it into a screen play, it will be horrificly butchered ;)

And on this bit... How come we, as readers of his books, know they got horrifically butchered when turned into screenplays? Are we, us mere punters, more intuitive/imaginative/intelligent than those film maker types?

EDIT! I just saw your post above mine: indeed and quite! LOL! ;)
 
Tatelou said:
You haven't read the book then? You really should. Seriously. He talks a lot about the importance of finding your own style.

Loulou

Does that mean I can keep my, well ... you know. Keep my fragments?

:D :D :D
 
It's difficult to create your own style when all you hear are guidelines that say, "Don't do this, don't do that..."

Sure, adverbs shouldn't pepper a story (and I'm guilty of using them more than I should), but they have their place and uses.
 
Tatelou said:
Well, damn well choose a stronger, more powerful verb, then!

He thrust wistfully at the cakes in the window.
 
Tatelou said:
And on this bit... How come we, as readers of his books, know they got horrifically butchered when turned into screenplays? Are we, us mere punters, more intuitive/imaginative/intelligent than those film maker types?

Butchered horrifically?
 
"Shut the door firmly" and "shouted loudly" are obviously silly.

But what about "He kissed her desperately."? How else are you going to say that? "He ground his lips back and forth against hers"?

No, I just bristle whenever I read anything that tells you what you can and can't do in fiction. It's a knee jerk response.

I know that a lot of people swear by his book, but you know, I've never really cared for his writing so I was never interested. The only specific thing I've ever heard about his advice is his hatred of adverbs, though. What else does he say? I'd be interested.
 
CrimsonMaiden said:
It's difficult to create your own style when all you hear are guidelines that say, "Don't do this, don't do that..."

Sure, adverbs shouldn't pepper a story (and I'm guilty of using them more than I should), but they have their place and uses.

Ok, maybe I belaboured the point a little. But, my main point was... I agree with King. ;)

I think On Writing is bloody marvellous and I would encourage any aspiring writer to read it. Of course, his word is not gospel; we are free to disagree with him, but all the same, he knows his stuff.

He only has two big don'ts, btw: the use of adverbs and the passive voice (try to avoid both, at all costs - but even he admits that they do have their place, sparingly, very sparingly indeed).
 
Tatelou said:
And on this bit... How come we, as readers of his books, know they got horrifically butchered when turned into screenplays? Are we, us mere punters, more intuitive/imaginative/intelligent than those film maker types?

EDIT! I just saw your post above mine: indeed and quite! LOL! ;)
GOD I hope so!! :)
 
I like adverbs, but there again I'm new to writing. Maybe my style will change as I get more confident.
I might even start joyfully splitting infinitives.
 
kendo1 said:
Tatelou said:
And on this bit... How come we, as readers of his books, know they got horrifically butchered when turned into screenplays? Are we, us mere punters, more intuitive/imaginative/intelligent than those film maker types?

Butchered horrifically?

Maimed. :p
 
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