Have you ever written a story with a hermaphrodite character?

[sunandshadow]

What did you find challenging about it?

I personally find the pronouns to be a big dilemma. Choosing a male or female pronoun completely splits the audience, as male readers usually prefer a female pronoun and female readers usually prefer a male pronoun. Choosing some other made-up pronoun might please both groups but tends to feel awkward and result in lots of typos. Also, nouns that only exist in gendered forms (like aunt/uncle) don't work with a gender-neutral pronoun.

 

[TxRad]

What did you find challenging about it?

I personally find the pronouns to be a big dilemma. Choosing a male or female pronoun completely splits the audience, as male readers usually prefer a female pronoun and female readers usually prefer a male pronoun. Choosing some other made-up pronoun might please both groups but tends to feel awkward and result in lots of typos. Also, nouns that only exist in gendered forms (like aunt/uncle) don't work with a gender-neutral pronoun.

Working on one now. I solved the gender pronoun problem early on in the story and haven't had a problem so far.

 

[hylas_]

If you care about attracting a large readership, you probably shouldn't write about hermaphrodite characters. If you don't care, then use the pronouns that make sense for the character and story. How do they see themselves?

("male readers usually prefer a female pronoun and female readers usually prefer a male pronoun" -> is this based on anything, or just your assumption?)

 

[AwkwardMD]

Most of my stories involve a transsexual or intersex character. The pronouns involved are a personal preference of the character. Whatever you choose will be fine, as long as you have a reason for it. The gender of the reader factors into it exactly zero, just like how the people you pass on the street have no input on yoyr own personal hairstyle.

 

[sunandshadow]

("male readers usually prefer a female pronoun and female readers usually prefer a male pronoun" -> is this based on anything, or just your assumption?)

I did an experiment - wrote a story using male pronouns and then edited a version of the same story to use female pronouns, and posted both at the same time. Readers had to make a choice at the beginning of the story which version to read, and I could see the stats of the choices, plus the comments on the two versions tended to reveal the gender of the person commenting. I did not have a third version with gender-neutral pronouns though; that would have been interesting data.

Aside from that experiment, I've repeatedly run across people commenting vehemently about the combination of male pronouns with the ability to get pregnant (which one would assume that herms have). This is a very strong audience dividing line, people hate it or love it, with few being neutral.

 

[sunandshadow]

use the pronouns that make sense for the character and story. How do they see themselves?

Most of my stories involve a transsexual or intersex character. The pronouns involved are a personal preference of the character. Whatever you choose will be fine, as long as you have a reason for it. The gender of the reader factors into it exactly zero, just like how the people you pass on the street have no input on your own personal hairstyle.

I am generally writing about a whole species where all individuals are herms and there are no males or females, so it's not an individual choice. The original language of a herm species like this would not have male and female pronouns, they'd have only a gender-neutral pronoun. So I see myself as a translator, trying to decide how to convert that foreign language pronoun and other terms like their gender-neutral term for aunt/uncle, into English. Or whether to leave them untranslated in an otherwise-English story.

 

[TxRad]

I am generally writing about a whole species where all individuals are herms and there are no males or females, so it's not an individual choice. The original language of a herm species like this would not have male and female pronouns, they'd have only a gender-neutral pronoun. So I see myself as a translator, trying to decide how to convert that foreign language pronoun and other terms like their gender-neutral term for aunt/uncle, into English. Or whether to leave them untranslated in an otherwise-English story.

I have a scifi story where the aliens change sex throughout their life. In that case, I used the pronouns for whatever state they were in. With a hermaphrodite society, gender neutral would be best if that is how society sees itself.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Choosing some other made-up pronoun might please both groups but tends to feel awkward and result in lots of typos.

All words were made up somewhere along the way, but "they" as gender-neutral singular pronoun has been with us for ~ 800 years. If it was good enough for Chaucer and Shakespeare...

 

[StrangeTamer]

Yes, I have a hermaphrodite in my story but I did not find it hard to write for her. I just made her female side dominant so she identifies as a female.

 

[weftandwarp]

What did you find challenging about it?

I personally find the pronouns to be a big dilemma. Choosing a male or female pronoun completely splits the audience, as male readers usually prefer a female pronoun and female readers usually prefer a male pronoun. Choosing some other made-up pronoun might please both groups but tends to feel awkward and result in lots of typos. Also, nouns that only exist in gendered forms (like aunt/uncle) don't work with a gender-neutral pronoun.

In my experience we never referred to any one as hermaphrodite. There are many syndromes that cause sexual dissonance. If we had to identify the problem we always used the name of the syndrome There is no size fits all. To cope with the problem we always used the identity the patient wanted. To use any thing other than that was regarded as offensive. To use gender neutral language was often regarded as especially offensive. It's a situation I'd never want to put my hand up for. Too often it's extremely difficult. I think it would be unusual for some one with extreme sexual dissonance(such as in this thread) to be able to have children.

 

[hylas_]

@sunshadow: so cool that you did that experiment! I thought you're just making assumptions, but it was me who was making assumptions!

If it's about an entire species of hermaphrodites, with their own culture and language, I would use "they/them" as a pronoun, and make up words for gendered terms (auncle?)

 

[Elloelle]

I wrote a story about a Greek Goddess but it wasn't Aphrodite it was Hestia but it didn't have any sex in it or nothin' cause she was a virgin and stuff. But I was wonderin' about Hermaphrodite cause is that Hermes and Aphrodite's baby cause I don't remember that in the Greek stories I read and stuff.

Debbie

 

[ElectricBlue]

What did you find challenging about it?

I thought about doing it for a character in my current work-in-progress. But then I did some research into intersex people...

important note: hermaphrodite is no longer a preferred term:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

...and realised that my ignorance of the issues faced by the intersex community is such that I wouldn't be able to write with sufficient sensitivity and respect. So I quickly decided, for the idle purposes of my erotica, that it wouldn't be a very good idea.

 

[sunandshadow]

In my experience we never referred to any one as hermaphrodite. There are many syndromes that cause sexual dissonance. If we had to identify the problem we always used the name of the syndrome There is no size fits all. To cope with the problem we always used the identity the patient wanted. To use any thing other than that was regarded as offensive. To use gender neutral language was often regarded as especially offensive. It's a situation I'd never want to put my hand up for. Too often it's extremely difficult. I think it would be unusual for some one with extreme sexual dissonance(such as in this thread) to be able to have children.

Um, you may be mistaken about what a hermaphrodite is. There are no real human hermaphrodites. There are, however, real animals where it's normal for an individual to have both the ability to bear children and the ability to sire children. Those are hermaphrodites. This thread is about fantasy or alien people who are modeled on these animals, as well as the myth of Hermaphroditus. This thread is not about intersex or transsexual people.

 

[sunandshadow]

I thought about doing it for a character in my current work-in-progress. But then I did some research into intersex people...

important note: hermaphrodite is no longer a preferred term:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex

...and realised that my ignorance of the issues faced by the intersex community is such that I wouldn't be able to write with sufficient sensitivity and respect. So I quickly decided, for the idle purposes of my erotica, that it wouldn't be a very good idea.

I am not talking about intersex people at all. I am talking about a fantasy or alien creature, like a mermaid, but instead of an imaginary person with a fish tail it's an imaginary person with both a functional penis and a functional uterus.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am not talking about intersex people at all. I am talking about a fantasy or alien creature, like a mermaid, but instead of an imaginary person with a fish tail it's an imaginary person with both a functional penis and a functional uterus.

Ok, but your first post didn't actually say that, did it? Hence several posts re intersex and medical hermaphroditism, and talking about the real condition - which is where my comment was coming from.

 

[weftandwarp]

Um, you may be mistaken about what a hermaphrodite is. There are no real human hermaphrodites. There are, however, real animals where it's normal for an individual to have both the ability to bear children and the ability to sire children. Those are hermaphrodites. This thread is about fantasy or alien people who are modeled on these animals, as well as the myth of Hermaphroditus. This thread is not about intersex or transsexual people.

Yes, hopefully you're right but I note you still use the word "children".

 

[sunandshadow]

Yes, hopefully you're right but I note you still use the word "children".

I don't see an issue with the word children? I guess the word offspring might be a bit better for talking about animals, but for fantasy humanoids or aliens then children seems the most correct.

 

[sunandshadow]

Ok, but your first post didn't actually say that, did it? Hence several posts re intersex and medical hermaphroditism, and talking about the real condition - which is where my comment was coming from.

True, I didn't specify. I guess, because I've never used the word hermaphrodite to mean intersex, I didn't expect that they could be confused.

 

[ElectricBlue]

True, I didn't specify. I guess, because I've never used the word hermaphrodite to mean intersex, I didn't expect that they could be confused.

Fair enough - this looks like unintended confusion all around, where a fantasy world collided with the real world, and it took a while to figure out the difference.

Now that I know what you meant I doff my hat and retire gracefully, and bid you well with your strange creatures.