Have I done something wrong?! Help!

[HazyDavy]

presumably, you already know my answer to those questions. :>

I think so

your handle is hazydavy? just another spirit in the night? :>

Yeah, I'll be heading out to the darkside of Route 88 a little later

 

[EveningBreeze]

Thanks. There seems to be two schools of thought emerging here- I've either been hard done by or I'm a stalker! It's not easy! And I think your advice is very, very sound by the way so don't doubt yourself I've resolved to just leave it now, which will be much easier when I move jobs in about a month, and leave it to her to think through (if she wants to). Who knows whether I'm suppossed to send her a Christmas card or not though?! Guess I wait to see if I get one?! Can always try initiating contact again in June by sending a card when its her birthday Might have sorted herself out by then... but I'm NOT depending on it.

It would be nice to get her a card. To make it seem genuine though, send her a hand-written or handmade card is what I think best. A short line alone the lines of "Thinking of you" would be nice... Lol, now you have the next month planned out. Go do what you're best able to cope with. But if you just leave that wound sitting there when you want to do something about it, it will probably eat away at you.

Trust me, I've been in a semi-similar position where my friend, after my several gestures to establish contact again after a pointless fight, had all but avoided me, and obviously so. When I tried e-mailing them they'd give me short answers not revealing much, and when I'd log onto AIM, within 30 seconds they'd "mysteriously" sign off. They had told me before that everything was okay, and that there were no hard feelings, but their actions showed otherwise. I was truly hurt and tried to move on with my life, but we were so close, and like you and your friend, had revealed some very personal stuff to eachother and known eachother for over two years. Time went by and we hadn't talked for around two months. Then, on Thanksgiving day, I got the courage and finally sent him an e-mail wishing him a happy Thanksgiving. He replied warmly, and explained to me that his avoidance had nothing to do with me. A lot had been going on in his life and he apologized for what it seemed like. This morning I decided to get on AIM and happened to catch him while he was at work. We just finished talking, and things are, as it seems, back to normal.

Now, don't get me wrong in what I'm trying to say. Things may not be as perfect for you as in my situation. She may feel differently or have different reasons for doing so. But I'm backing up my suggestion in that you'll never find out if you don't try. Right now wouldn't be a good time, though. Christmas, or a little later, would be better, allowing her some time to cool off. Six months away is a little much and may cause you to lose her forever.

But, it doesn't matter what I think or anyone else. It all matters in what you choose to do because it's best. And, thanks for the compliment on my advice. I hope I didn't just cause you to eat your words .

Take care and good luck.

 

[wicked woman]

It would be nice to get her a card. To make it seem genuine though, send her a hand-written or handmade card is what I think best. A short line alone the lines of "Thinking of you" would be nice... Lol, now you have the next month planned out. Go do what you're best able to cope with. But if you just leave that wound sitting there when you want to do something about it, it will probably eat away at you.

oooo no....sorry my vote is a veto on this one. I'm voiting with ed....do not send a Christmas card or birthday card. As difficult as it will be (and yes she's being unfair giving you the cold shoulder instead of talking to you, explaining where she sees you in her life...or more accurately doesn't see you) just leave the woman alone. Follow her lead...don't initiate. I understand why you're in disbelief about her reaction to your confession...but it's a chance you took. Confessing our deeper feelings for a 'friend' doesn't mean they'll be returned. Sometimes they aren't and it makes the recipient uncomfortable. Your only 'crime' was not reading her signs well enough and heeding them. You read them now...pay attention to them.

 

[SweetErika]

oooo no....sorry my vote is a veto on this one. I'm voiting with ed....do not send a Christmas card or birthday card. As difficult as it will be (and yes she's being unfair giving you the cold shoulder instead of talking to you, explaining where she sees you in her life...or more accurately doesn't see you) just leave the woman alone. Follow her lead...don't initiate. I understand why you're in disbelief about her reaction to your confession...but it's a chance you took. Confessing our deeper feelings for a 'friend' doesn't mean they'll be returned. Sometimes they aren't and it makes the recipient uncomfortable. Your only 'crime' was not reading her signs well enough and heeding them. You read them now...pay attention to them.

Very well said, WW.

There seems to be two schools of thought emerging here- I've either been hard done by or I'm a stalker!

I don't think anyone's asserting you ARE a stalker; the majority of us are simply advising you do not take further action that will make you SEEM like one. I'm guessing most of us have either been on the giving or receiving end of those extra phone calls, emails, conversations (that can feel like or turn out to be confrontations), letters, etc., and, like you, at some point we've realized we/they started to cross the line between making an effort and overdoing it. It sounds like you feel you're on, or perhaps your toes are just over that line (from her perspective). As difficult as it is to stop trying, I think that's the only shot you have at preserving the slim chance of her wanting to re-establish contact in the future.

FWIW, the last time I let someone I loved go, didn't make contact that one last time, gave the relationship space, and moved on with my life, they came back. It hurt like hell at first, then I felt a sense of peace knowing I did what was right in stopping at a good place for both of us. I would have been fine had we stayed apart, but the return was a lovely surprise and felt like a reward. It was a slightly different situation, but a very similar solution.

 

[phoenix1224]

I don't think anyone's asserting you ARE a stalker; the majority of us are simply advising you do not take further action that will make you SEEM like one.

Exactly.

HD, you have to keep in mind that unwanted/unsolicited attention (of almost any sort) in today's day and age can be construed as stalking... Or at the very least, harrassment.

So, do yourself a favor (as difficult as it may be) and break off contact... You never know, six months or a year from now she may realize that she made a mistake and try to contact you. *shrugs*

 

[chicago31man]

My opinion on what happened...

No comment.

 

[human_male]

In general, when a woman meets a man and has had any time (could be just a few minutes) to form an impression, she will put you into one of four categories:

1. I want to sleep with this guy
2. I want a relationship with this guy
3. I want to be friends with this guy
4. I don't want to be associated with this guy

Once you are in a category, it is very easy to go down a category, but not very easy to go up one.

I don't know about this. Down here it's almost unheard of for two people to date and form a relationship that way. In fact there isn't much of a dating scene at all here. Every one I've ever known met their bf/gf by being friends first. That's just how it's done. I've always thought this is rather wacked but it's reality. It may be just a peculiarity to my country but women can't be all that different here than anywhere else. Also, don't women associate feelings of intimacy and closeness with feelings of sexual attraction? So it seems more natural to go from close friend to lover.

As for you Davy... seriously, just keep away from her.

 

[NaiveOne]

You deserve better.




Enough said.

 

[SweetErika]

HazyDavy-

I read your post, and based on my experience (I'm a professional life coach, and I do a lot of work with women/relationships, etc), here is what happened:

In general, when a woman meets a man and has had any time (could be just a few minutes) to form an impression, she will put you into one of four categories:

1. I want to sleep with this guy
2. I want a relationship with this guy
3. I want to be friends with this guy
4. I don't want to be associated with this guy

Once you are in a category, it is very easy to go down a category, but not very easy to go up one.

You started out in the "friendship" category. When you are in this category, its very hard to move out of it, especially if you are acting like a friend all the time. Based on what you have stated in your post, she put you into this category, and when you let the cat out of the bag, she moved you down to category #4 - mainly because she's not attracted to you in that way, and doesn't want to deal with you wanting a relationship.

Granted, I only have experience in being a woman, relationships, female friends, and talking to a ton of people, but the generalizations above don't match the majority of experiences I've had or heard about. Just about every romantic relationship I've had has evolved from a friendship; when the trust, knowledge, intimacy, commonalities, and feelings are already there, it's very easy to take that step up. As human_male said, and peoples' stories back up, this is common.

Your theory certainly is valid sometimes, but I think much of the time it's just an excuse in the vein of "nice guys finish last," and is more common with those who are less experienced and/or mature. HazyDavy's friend could be giving him the cold shoulder due to lack of attraction, but it could also be any number of other things...without knowing more or hearing from her, there's no way to tell.

The best advice I have on this one is this - find another woman. There are plenty of them out there. Start acting more like a man. Don't chase her. Go find another woman, stop calling her, etc. Once she sees that you have someone else, she may start to see you in a different light, and may start chasing you. If you continue to pursue her, try to be her friend, etc you will just come off as a wussy, which will further kill her attraction for you.

I think HazyDavy HAS acted like a man, and "wussy" doesn't come into it. He's been kind and generous to this woman, and was assertive in trying to get the relationship back on track. Those are all good qualities, ones most women look for in friends AND lovers.

Remember, women (and men) want what they can't have. Be a man. Find another woman, stop being a wussy (not trying to put you down here, we have all been there - believe me), and get on with your life. Once you do this, you may be surprised when she comes after you!

Actually, I only want what I realistically CAN have, and wouldn't want someone who would come after me because I seem less available, or vice versa...that seems shallow and like setting yourself up for heartache. I only want friends and lovers who value me, are thoughtful, generous, honest, open, appreciative, and make an effort. And I want people who are focused on just being genuinely good people, not those who are caught up in fitting society's loose definition of a "man" or "woman."

Like it or not, calling someone a wussy IS a put down. I'd think a life coach would have more tact, know synonyms, and express their thoughts in a way that were unlikely to offend/put people on the defensive so they'd be more able to focus on the coach's advice.

 

[silverwhisper]

hazydavy: if you run into the lake in just your socks and shirt, i may need to send a horde of dancing bananas at you

ed

 

[HazyDavy]

Not sure it's great netiquette to bring this one to the top after so long but thought I'd provide a quick update as you have all been so helpful.

Got a Christmas card a couple of days ago. No great outpouring of emotion but I was pleased to get one and returned in kind today: nice handmade card and similar message to one received, i.e. merry christmas and best wishes for 2006. Hopefully that is allowed! Won't do anymore, just leave it there, although I found out a guy I know died of cancer last week and it really got me thinking that I would hate it if something happened while we were not on good terms. Oh well.

 

[Eilan]

Not sure it's great netiquette to bring this one to the top after so long but thought I'd provide a quick update as you have all been so helpful.

Some of us nosy folk like to know how things turned out.

 

[human_male]

Not sure it's great netiquette to bring this one to the top after so long but thought I'd provide a quick update as you have all been so helpful.

Got a Christmas card a couple of days ago. No great outpouring of emotion but I was pleased to get one and returned in kind today: nice handmade card and similar message to one received, i.e. merry christmas and best wishes for 2006. Hopefully that is allowed! Won't do anymore, just leave it there, although I found out a guy I know died of cancer last week and it really got me thinking that I would hate it if something happened while we were not on good terms. Oh well.

I'm pleased to get an update too. I think it's fine that you sent a card, but yeah leave it at that. And remember she put you on not good terms, not you.

 

[EveningBreeze]

Truly Wishing the Best

Not sure it's great netiquette to bring this one to the top after so long but thought I'd provide a quick update as you have all been so helpful.

Got a Christmas card a couple of days ago. No great outpouring of emotion but I was pleased to get one and returned in kind today: nice handmade card and similar message to one received, i.e. merry christmas and best wishes for 2006. Hopefully that is allowed! Won't do anymore, just leave it there, although I found out a guy I know died of cancer last week and it really got me thinking that I would hate it if something happened while we were not on good terms. Oh well.

I'm happy for you that she sent you a card. I don't mean to read into it, or add another flame to the confusing argument. BUT (here it comes) it shows she may still have some thought of you in the back of her mind. Please let me know if anyone disagrees with me. Now, this thought may just be missing that friendship she had, thinking of what she should of gotten, or just a simple polite gesture, wishing an old friend a Merry Christmas, along with all her other friends she knows. Who knows. But she is thinking of you, no matter how much you or anyone else battles it, when she picked out that card on the rack at Target and sealed the envelope. I don't necessarily recommend trying to get her back or anything, let me just point that unnecessary and unwanted point to give you something back.

But over the time that's passed, I think either she wants your friendship or doesn't. Maybe a few letters and such at holidays will cause her to keep that reminder of you, but if you're both happy, and I pray you are, I'd suggest you try to find a woman that will love you back if you wish, in all cliches. What you do next in your own life is your choice, though, and I truly wish you the best.

Merry Christmas, Davy, everyone have a great New Year!

P. S.
SweetErika, you are very talented at telling people off . You read my mind exactly. Davy did nothing to become a "wussy," only what any self-respecting, loving person would do. I, being another woman, can back you up on that. Whenever I meet a person, I treat them as a human and let the relationship progress depending on how we interact, what we have in common, etc., I don't suddenly categorize men into my mold. I have dated men, and I'm sure many others have, that I hated at first. And still, ended up having a relationship with someone after being friends for a short time. People are human beings, actions they make, depending on what they are, change my opinion, up or down, sometimes very easily. People also just don't suddenly and uncontrollably go after a person once they turn the cold shoulder. They react in their own way, but it's never always the same reaction. And, yes, wussy and common phrases such as "Be a man," do not help the situation much and also surprises me coming from a counselor.

No offense, chicago31man, but you may need to rethink your strategy on human nature. It's unpredictable, it changes over time for various reasons, and it's life.

Anyway, Merry XXXmas ,
-The Eternal Optimist

 

[dude986]

I have some advice for you..

I found myself in a similar situation around 2 years ago. In my case it was someone who broke up with me. I still had feelings and tried to keep in contact and be all sweet and caring. Finally one day I had to kick my own butt and realize that I was pushing too hard and getting the opposite reaction that i wanted.

Sooooo....I moved on. I blocked her on msn and if I did get an email from her I responded with a short message days later. If she called I kept it short and sweet and the whole time didn't talk about myself. The key here is not to lay it on thick about how great life is. They will know you are lying...women figure us out too easy! hehe....

Now I was not up to anything here...i was not plotting...I just didn't want to get reattached so I kept my distance. And what do you think happend? as soon as times got tough she was looking for me and wanted to see me.

So my advice is like to many others...be nice....sending back a card is fine...but don't let it get you thinking at all. Just keep moving on and say hi nicely if you see her but nothing else. Act like you don't care because you shouldn't. Anyone who treats you this way doesn't deserve you.

Oh well that's my thoughts...but what do I know! hehe

 

[HazyDavy]

Thanks (again) everybody

No doubt whatsoever the card was a polite gesture, nothing more, which is fine: it is better than a kick in the teeth. I guess I've learned that sometimes there are no answers and to search for them is pretty futile. Just got to remember there are an enormous amount of questions in life and relationships that don't have answers; learning how to deal with that fact is the key.

Merry Christmas everybody.

 

[EveningBreeze]

Thanks (again) everybody

No doubt whatsoever the card was a polite gesture, nothing more, which is fine: it is better than a kick in the teeth. I guess I've learned that sometimes there are no answers and to search for them is pretty futile. Just got to remember there are an enormous amount of questions in life and relationships that don't have answers; learning how to deal with that fact is the key.

Merry Christmas everybody.

Hugs, Davy!

For my last message, I just wanted to wish you a formal goodbye. You're a great person. You truly deserve the world, honey, and I hope you get it. Thanks for opening up to us, I hope we at least added some insight to your problem. Again, I'm sorry you had to go through this. Some things in life are hurtful, but you'll benefit in the end if you make sure to learn from it. In a little while, you'll almost forget this happened, and be sitting in your gold-plated hot tub drinking martinis with your Chumpies and dolla bills, with someone who appreciates you.

Or... something like that .

Happy New Year and have a wonderful life!

 

[silverwhisper]

hazy davy quoth
just got to remember there are an enormous amount of questions in life and relationships that don't have answers; learning how to deal with that fact is the key.

that, sir, is wise.

ed

 

[HazyDavy]

Sorry guy and gals but I need to ressurect this one Small development and looking for confirmation that I'm reading this one right.

So I've moved jobs now and no longer working with aforementioned person. Same building but different area, although it is possible I will be returning to work in that area in 12 months or so. Anyway, being the nice person I am, I send an e-mail to all my colleagues, including aformentioned person, thanking them and wishing them the best for the future. Lo and behold, response from person saying something along the lines of "very much look forward to working with you again in the future" and, more annoyingly, signed off with "don't be a stranger". What the hell am I supposed to make of that?! This is the person who blanked me two months ago and showed no interest whatsoever in attempting to get our friendship back on track.

Here's my take and I just need a sanity check. It's a throwaway comment; nothing more. I don't think she is intentionally messing with my mind but it has had that effect and I just can't see that it is a hint she's looking to ressurect the friendship. I am not even sure it matters if she is; I think it would be very difficult to recapture what we had and, frankly, I'm not sure she deserves it. That being said, annoyingly, I don't think a day has passed in the last three months when the situation hasn't crossed my mind at some point and this feels like a bit of a watershed- I'm obviously not going to act on the comment immediately, certainly not for a month or two if at all, but I've not convinced myself that I would want to miss the opportunity if that is what is being presented. But neither do I want to try again and get blanked again. I have some respect for myself! Not much, but some.

I feel more than a little pathetic, and about 13 years old, worrying about something like this but you guys have been really helpful up to now so I hope you don't mind me coming back to you. Guess I'm looking for an independent view into what is going on here. Apart from me being rather too much of a wuss of course! I hear the "you've got to get over it and move on" comments coming and I think I would agree with you...

 

[human_male]

Sorry guy and gals but I need to ressurect this one Small development and looking for confirmation that I'm reading this one right.

So I've moved jobs now and no longer working with aforementioned person. Same building but different area, although it is possible I will be returning to work in that area in 12 months or so. Anyway, being the nice person I am, I send an e-mail to all my colleagues, including aformentioned person, thanking them and wishing them the best for the future. Lo and behold, response from person saying something along the lines of "very much look forward to working with you again in the future" and, more annoyingly, signed off with "don't be a stranger". What the hell am I supposed to make of that?! This is the person who blanked me two months ago and showed no interest whatsoever in attempting to get our friendship back on track.

Here's my take and I just need a sanity check. It's a throwaway comment; nothing more. I don't think she is intentionally messing with my mind but it has had that effect and I just can't see that it is a hint she's looking to ressurect the friendship. I am not even sure it matters if she is; I think it would be very difficult to recapture what we had and, frankly, I'm not sure she deserves it. That being said, annoyingly, I don't think a day has passed in the last three months when the situation hasn't crossed my mind at some point and this feels like a bit of a watershed- I'm obviously not going to act on the comment immediately, certainly not for a month or two if at all, but I've not convinced myself that I would want to miss the opportunity if that is what is being presented. But neither do I want to try again and get blanked again. I have some respect for myself! Not much, but some.

I feel more than a little pathetic, and about 13 years old, worrying about something like this but you guys have been really helpful up to now so I hope you don't mind me coming back to you. Guess I'm looking for an independent view into what is going on here. Apart from me being rather too much of a wuss of course! I hear the "you've got to get over it and move on" comments coming and I think I would agree with you...

I can't believe you're even still thinking about this women. I know how hard it is to move on when you're not in the situation where you meet many women. I'm in the same boat right now. I should move on, but to where? I don't know anyone else. But in your case, and given that she made it so abundantly clear that she wants nothing to do with you, you should definately drop it. At least I would if it were me. Ok, if she apporaches you and makes a concerted effort to regain your friendship then maybe think about it, but otherwise just forget about her.

Just take no notice of her and try not to dwell on the situation and you'll get over it eventually.

 

[HazyDavy]

I can't believe I'm thinking about it either... but I am so there you have it Guess some people are just affecting like that. It's not my intention to continue thinking about it but I do, although you will note that I'm only revisiting it because of something she has done and I have been happy to leave it well alone until then... and still am now. You are of course right and I know that really.

 

[TBKahuna123]

I can't believe I'm thinking about it either... but I am so there you have it Guess some people are just affecting like that. It's not my intention to continue thinking about it but I do, although you will note that I'm only revisiting it because of something she has done and I have been happy to leave it well alone until then... and still am now. You are of course right and I know that really.

See ladies, guys have feelings too!

I wish I had some decent advice to give you, but this is a tough one. I gotta say though, unless there is something specifically about her that compells you to keep thinking about her, I would say you are more enamored witht he concept of what might ahve been. If that's the case, let her go and move on.

If there is something specific about her that just keeps drawing your mind back, then you might look at her letter as an opening ot make one more stab at it. I stress though, only if there is something specific that draws you to her, otherwise it's not her, it's just your ego railing against the rejection. Been there, done that!

 

[SweetErika]

<snip> Here's my take and I just need a sanity check. It's a throwaway comment; nothing more. I don't think she is intentionally messing with my mind but it has had that effect and I just can't see that it is a hint she's looking to ressurect the friendship. I am not even sure it matters if she is; I think it would be very difficult to recapture what we had and, frankly, I'm not sure she deserves it. That being said, annoyingly, I don't think a day has passed in the last three months when the situation hasn't crossed my mind at some point and this feels like a bit of a watershed- I'm obviously not going to act on the comment immediately, certainly not for a month or two if at all, but I've not convinced myself that I would want to miss the opportunity if that is what is being presented. But neither do I want to try again and get blanked again. I have some respect for myself! Not much, but some.

Listen to me: Listen to what YOU'RE saying here, Davy. That is all.


You're singing a different tune than you were previously, and I believe you have good reason to be doing so. You had a loss, grieved, and has come to a place of acceptance. That doesn't mean you aren't sad, have forgotten, or won't doubt, but it sounds like you're so much better off and are seeing this whole situation/relationship in a balanced light. Your perspective, instincts and thoughts have moved to the center and away, quite correctly. Even if her note was an attempt to reconnect, your position of self-respect is right and I don't believe it'll take you down the wrong path no matter what. Great work...I know how difficult it can be to move to that place, but you've done it well.

 

[silverwhisper]

hazydavy: you have good instincts. trust 'em, hm?

btw: the DVDs that accompany the re-release of born to run rock.

ed

 

[HazyDavy]

See ladies, guys have feelings too!

Absolutely.

Listen to me: Listen to what YOU'RE saying here, Davy. That is all.

Thanks. I knew that even before posting I think but sometimes you just need the benefit of others' opinions- I'm racked by self-doubt at the best of times . Even I know I don't have all the answers. All the questions maybe, but not all the answers.

you have good instincts. trust 'em, hm?

Did. Today in fact. At my desk when guess who stops by?! "How's the new job?" Inspired by this thread, I thought this can't go on and we had a bit of a chat about how I was finding it difficult to talk to her now in light of being ignored for so long. She said she was very sorry if that had been the impression I had gathered, that it wasn't her intention and that she wouldn't like me to cut off contact altogether. Now, I wasn't really having that and outlined the instances when it was obvious she had been ignoring me. I said that had disappointed and hurt me enormously, apologised for causing any distress (and said I hoped she hadn't felt harrassed )but said the time had passed and I had needed to move on for my own sanity. Also said that I consoled myself in the knowledge that if I had done anything to upset her then it had only been with her best interests at heart so I could live with it.

I then thanked her for her friendship and support over the past year, that I respected her enormously, genuinely hoped she would be able to find a place where she is able to understand just how terriffic she is and that if she ever needed to talk then she knew where I was. Last bit was genius; it is the kind of thing she would say to me but I got in there first to put the emphasis on her instead of her saying it to me and the situation being reversed. And, while I absolutely meant it, we both knew that she will never want to take up the offer. Anyway, it felt right and I seem to have succeeded in drawing a line under it all (although I obviously reserve the right to resurrect this thread during any moments of relapse on my part). It hurt a lot to be honest because I will always care about her enormously, maybe more than anyone else I've ever met, but it was the right thing to do. For both of us.

the DVDs that accompany the re-release of born to run rock.

Ain't they great! Genuinely an awesome experience watching some of that and just about means he is forgiven for releasing Human Touch