Has a Lit member ditched you and you have no clue why?
- Thread starter Cheyenne
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Desert Amazon
Esse Quam Videri
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Tabby432
Nostalgic
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DCL & Dessert Amazon
I know what your saying is true... but the more time I spend talking to people on-line the more REAL it seems. I try and keep it in perspective... but I don't want to.
Maybe it's because I've only been online for a few months? Either way, I like these people and I consider a few to be friends.
So it's an illusion? I like magic tricks too.
I know what your saying is true... but the more time I spend talking to people on-line the more REAL it seems. I try and keep it in perspective... but I don't want to.
Maybe it's because I've only been online for a few months? Either way, I like these people and I consider a few to be friends.
So it's an illusion? I like magic tricks too.
Dixon Carter Lee
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I cry at movies. The movie isn't real, but my emotion is. Still, I don't "love" the movie the same way I'd love a friend.
I think you can like, help, understand, laugh with, learn from, appreciate, and miss people you meet on line, I just don't think you can ever know them the same way you can know a friend you've talked to, driven across country with, went to school with, planned surprise parties with, held hands with, invited into your home, introduced to your family, GIVEN YOUR REAL NAME TO, shown picture albums, etc. etc.
A frienship, an actual friendship, requires an investment not only in loyalty and time, but in intimate trust. A friend knows you on a tangible, tactile level.
On line friendships are fun, but they don't even come close to the bonds you make with people who've seen you on bad hair days, who've been to your wedding, etc.
How many of your real life acquaintances would you say KNOW you? Two? Three? Certainly not ten. How hard it is to be that revealed. How hard and precious is friendship. It requires much, much, much more than clever prose and incest confessions.
Nobosy is "walking away" from you. They're just going back to their real life.
I think you can like, help, understand, laugh with, learn from, appreciate, and miss people you meet on line, I just don't think you can ever know them the same way you can know a friend you've talked to, driven across country with, went to school with, planned surprise parties with, held hands with, invited into your home, introduced to your family, GIVEN YOUR REAL NAME TO, shown picture albums, etc. etc.
A frienship, an actual friendship, requires an investment not only in loyalty and time, but in intimate trust. A friend knows you on a tangible, tactile level.
On line friendships are fun, but they don't even come close to the bonds you make with people who've seen you on bad hair days, who've been to your wedding, etc.
How many of your real life acquaintances would you say KNOW you? Two? Three? Certainly not ten. How hard it is to be that revealed. How hard and precious is friendship. It requires much, much, much more than clever prose and incest confessions.
Nobosy is "walking away" from you. They're just going back to their real life.
Desert Amazon
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Re: DCL & Dessert Amazon
Barb Dwyer
Literotica Guru
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I think Cheyenne's point was that when 2 people not only email consistently and then move to MSN (or any other 'real-time' conversational tool) and get to know each other it becomes more than just a casual online interaction.
It sounds as if the people involved exchanged more than the basic back and forth of this BB. They may very well have used real names and invested in other instances of intimate trust as Dixon suggested.
I can see similarities between this and "real life." I don't know the statistical pattern, but I would agree that it is probably a higher percentage of men that do this. I suppose women have a louder internal guide that tells them to be nice, play by the rules and apologize while the men find it easier to just walk away. But, Cheyenne I don't know if I can agree that most people can walk away like that without feeling some guilt.
How many times in real life have you heard of women sitting by the phone waiting for the call that never comes? It is a gender intrinsic complaint "Why did he ask for my number if he never intended to call?" That doesn't seem as heinous as this situation. Those instances usually revolve around people who've just met.
But don't you think that people who try to establish friendships over the internet deserve a certain level of courtesy and respect? My guess is that a simple explanation of any sort would be better than silence. I see the point that the woman probably sits there wondering what she did wrong (blaming herself). Unfortunately, it is probably fairly common.
Dixon did give good advice though - but I think it applies to real life as well.
Very cynical, but very true.
It sounds as if the people involved exchanged more than the basic back and forth of this BB. They may very well have used real names and invested in other instances of intimate trust as Dixon suggested.
I can see similarities between this and "real life." I don't know the statistical pattern, but I would agree that it is probably a higher percentage of men that do this. I suppose women have a louder internal guide that tells them to be nice, play by the rules and apologize while the men find it easier to just walk away. But, Cheyenne I don't know if I can agree that most people can walk away like that without feeling some guilt.
How many times in real life have you heard of women sitting by the phone waiting for the call that never comes? It is a gender intrinsic complaint "Why did he ask for my number if he never intended to call?" That doesn't seem as heinous as this situation. Those instances usually revolve around people who've just met.
But don't you think that people who try to establish friendships over the internet deserve a certain level of courtesy and respect? My guess is that a simple explanation of any sort would be better than silence. I see the point that the woman probably sits there wondering what she did wrong (blaming herself). Unfortunately, it is probably fairly common.
Dixon did give good advice though - but I think it applies to real life as well.
Very cynical, but very true.
Malachi
Beware the Zombie Cats!
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A Possible Explanation
Some people might pull away from an online relationship in the same way that they would pull away from a real-life relationship that was going too fast. This could be especially true if they were starting to feel close to someone but had been seriously misrepresenting themselves. Of course, that doesn't make them any less of a jerk.
Some people might pull away from an online relationship in the same way that they would pull away from a real-life relationship that was going too fast. This could be especially true if they were starting to feel close to someone but had been seriously misrepresenting themselves. Of course, that doesn't make them any less of a jerk.
Cheyenne
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FINALLY- someone who got it! I was getting frustrated reading all the responses about just email and people getting to know each other in initial stages. My fault for not making it perfectly clear that the two people I'm talking about had moved on past just online chat into phone calls and knowing more about each other.Barb Dwyer said:
I'm not talking about just bb or just email relationships with fake online names. Although I admit I've had my share of guys who emailed for awhile and then disappeared into the wild blue yonder.
The case I'm talking about is two people who exchanged real names (truthfully, I don't know if they exchanged real last names, too, but I think so) and spent time on the phone with each other. NOT just email, not just bb. No romance, just friendship of two people who had a lot in common.
The whole point is exactly this, as you said: My guess is that a simple explanation of any sort would be better than silence. I see the point that the woman probably sits there wondering what she did wrong (blaming herself).
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Svedish_Chef
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Re: Re: I'll say Hello...
Take that back now cheyenne...
All mine that disappear one night are female....
Cheyenne said:
Take that back now cheyenne...
All mine that disappear one night are female....
Sometimes it isn't personal. I know the guy who introduced me to the Lit board has had computer malfuntions and I was missing in action for awhile for the same reason. Sometimes RL just gets in the way. I am sorry to hear that so many people are not treated the way that they should. Just like in RL there are people who don't have any respect for others. Hope you all can find real online friends who can appreciate you all.
cymbidia
unrepentant pervert
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Hmmm. Interesting topic.
I've been online for almost 10 years, a very long time relative to most others and to the net itself as a medium for reaching out to others. In that time, i've seen net interactions evolve from exceedingly primitive and unbelievably (by today's standards) slow bulletin boards through every kind of real time chat, almost-instantaneous bulletin board (like Lit today), and IM imaginable.
I've seen the rise of a truly global culture, one in which we make friends not based on who we work with or who is our lab partner in Chemistry at school but on how we use our words and where we choose to spend those words.
I've seen the "rules" of etiquette change, too, almost overnight. Suddenly we're all online - our mothers, our lovers, our friends (old and new) - and how we respond and relate to them has changed in the last 10 years. I've seen many people come online and be dazzled by the easy intimacy and furious pace of friendships that form from nothing and dissolve as quickly, often leaving one partner hurt.
The rules have changed, the rules that we all adhere to in our everyday, sunlit lives. You know what i'm talking about. In our everyday sunlit lives, we aren't permitted to hurt other people unnecessarily, to completely ignore the person with whom we were affectionate yesterday, to backstab at will, to be a player without penalty. Those rules still apply in out everyday lives but here on the net, well, it's sorts like the Wild West.
Here on the net, for some, there are no rules. Here, for some, the person on the other end of the keyboard is less of a person than the person in the next room - no matter how many intimacies have been exchanged or phone calls made or secrets shared.
DCL is right, but not only from the man's perspective. For many people, especially those new to online living, the person on the other end of the keyboard simply isn't as real - and cannot be as real - as someone in their everyday life. It takes time to understand on the level that one understands their everyday, sunlit friendships that one cannot and must not engage in instant friendships (by "instant friendships" i mean those formed online and that remain online, and i include lots of time spent in IM in that as well) and expect them be as meaningful over the long term as friendships that have survived bad hair days and divorces and losses of email and the other fucked stuff life throws at us all.
In other words, for some, online friendships seem easy to make, easy to break, easy to walk away from, and easy to make anew. No one is immune to being on the hurting side of these kinds of "friends", are we? If you've been online for any small length of time, you've been hurt by such a brush-off or been stung by out-of-the-blue ignoring by someone to whom you really felt close.
Such is the way of many people online. They have to learn that they're dealing with other real people before they grow enough conscience not to hurt unnecessarily.
Be very careful on whom you decide to spend your "reality".
It's fascinating and fun to play with other people online, i know, and we all make mistakes in judgment from time to time, but if you find other people cutting you off abruptly too often (or if you find yourself shutting others down too often), you need to ask yourself some hard questions about what you're looking for from other people or what you're out there offering.
However, there *are* times when we all trust someone else in error, times when we offer our trust in unwisely. It's always best, of course, to tell the other person what they've done that upset you - but we can't all always be that good, can we? Sometimes, all we can do, all we can bear to do, is completely cut the contact and hope the other person knows what went wrong, why we felt so badly that we had to cease all contact with them. If this happens and if it's NOT a regular occurrence, don't beat yourself up. Just like in your everyday, sunlit life, sometimes this kinda thing happens.
If we all follow that "Do unto others..." guideline, here and Out There, wouldn't things flow more smoothly for everyone?
I've been online for almost 10 years, a very long time relative to most others and to the net itself as a medium for reaching out to others. In that time, i've seen net interactions evolve from exceedingly primitive and unbelievably (by today's standards) slow bulletin boards through every kind of real time chat, almost-instantaneous bulletin board (like Lit today), and IM imaginable.
I've seen the rise of a truly global culture, one in which we make friends not based on who we work with or who is our lab partner in Chemistry at school but on how we use our words and where we choose to spend those words.
I've seen the "rules" of etiquette change, too, almost overnight. Suddenly we're all online - our mothers, our lovers, our friends (old and new) - and how we respond and relate to them has changed in the last 10 years. I've seen many people come online and be dazzled by the easy intimacy and furious pace of friendships that form from nothing and dissolve as quickly, often leaving one partner hurt.
The rules have changed, the rules that we all adhere to in our everyday, sunlit lives. You know what i'm talking about. In our everyday sunlit lives, we aren't permitted to hurt other people unnecessarily, to completely ignore the person with whom we were affectionate yesterday, to backstab at will, to be a player without penalty. Those rules still apply in out everyday lives but here on the net, well, it's sorts like the Wild West.
Here on the net, for some, there are no rules. Here, for some, the person on the other end of the keyboard is less of a person than the person in the next room - no matter how many intimacies have been exchanged or phone calls made or secrets shared.
DCL is right, but not only from the man's perspective. For many people, especially those new to online living, the person on the other end of the keyboard simply isn't as real - and cannot be as real - as someone in their everyday life. It takes time to understand on the level that one understands their everyday, sunlit friendships that one cannot and must not engage in instant friendships (by "instant friendships" i mean those formed online and that remain online, and i include lots of time spent in IM in that as well) and expect them be as meaningful over the long term as friendships that have survived bad hair days and divorces and losses of email and the other fucked stuff life throws at us all.
In other words, for some, online friendships seem easy to make, easy to break, easy to walk away from, and easy to make anew. No one is immune to being on the hurting side of these kinds of "friends", are we? If you've been online for any small length of time, you've been hurt by such a brush-off or been stung by out-of-the-blue ignoring by someone to whom you really felt close.
Such is the way of many people online. They have to learn that they're dealing with other real people before they grow enough conscience not to hurt unnecessarily.
Be very careful on whom you decide to spend your "reality".
It's fascinating and fun to play with other people online, i know, and we all make mistakes in judgment from time to time, but if you find other people cutting you off abruptly too often (or if you find yourself shutting others down too often), you need to ask yourself some hard questions about what you're looking for from other people or what you're out there offering.
However, there *are* times when we all trust someone else in error, times when we offer our trust in unwisely. It's always best, of course, to tell the other person what they've done that upset you - but we can't all always be that good, can we? Sometimes, all we can do, all we can bear to do, is completely cut the contact and hope the other person knows what went wrong, why we felt so badly that we had to cease all contact with them. If this happens and if it's NOT a regular occurrence, don't beat yourself up. Just like in your everyday, sunlit life, sometimes this kinda thing happens.
If we all follow that "Do unto others..." guideline, here and Out There, wouldn't things flow more smoothly for everyone?
Never
Come What May
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I'm going to try and be serious here - and try to not sound odd, but hey, I'm an otaku.
I find that DCLs 'rules' are reversed to what I know of the Net.
The people I know in real life are not real; my friends, my family, the people I know at work all wear masks. They always act the way people think they ought to act, it's only in cyberspace that I've ever 'known' another person.
Just a few days ago a 'friend' I had known for nine months just dumped me. One day I showed up at his house as planned and he wasn't there - in fact, he had left thirty minutes ago so he wouldn't have to deal with me.
Why did he do it? Because I had been promoted in the company and wasn't his assistant anymore. I wasn't doing his work so he had no more use of me. Why didn't I see it coming? Because he's an actor, a really good one. Even now when I try to explain what happened to other people no one believed me because this man is so nice, and so charming.
Over the net all you are is your words and your actions.
Those people that drop you on the net are scumbags, plain and simple. But they probably don't she that part of themselves in real life - or they don't show it that often. That doesn't mean it isn't in them. That doesn't mean they don't lie and cheat and treat people poorly in real life. It just means they get away with it.
I had friends online who are real friends. Yes, people drift away because of 'real life' then again 'real life' causes 'real' friends to drift just as often. Why is it that I get birthday cards from people in Austraila who've never heard my voice and not my co-workers? Because they're my friends. I know people on line that I can turn to.
The truth is, no matter if it's VR or RL a true friend is difficult to find. Almost impossible at times.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, I'm rambling, but you catch my drift.
I find that DCLs 'rules' are reversed to what I know of the Net.
The people I know in real life are not real; my friends, my family, the people I know at work all wear masks. They always act the way people think they ought to act, it's only in cyberspace that I've ever 'known' another person.
Just a few days ago a 'friend' I had known for nine months just dumped me. One day I showed up at his house as planned and he wasn't there - in fact, he had left thirty minutes ago so he wouldn't have to deal with me.
Why did he do it? Because I had been promoted in the company and wasn't his assistant anymore. I wasn't doing his work so he had no more use of me. Why didn't I see it coming? Because he's an actor, a really good one. Even now when I try to explain what happened to other people no one believed me because this man is so nice, and so charming.
Over the net all you are is your words and your actions.
Those people that drop you on the net are scumbags, plain and simple. But they probably don't she that part of themselves in real life - or they don't show it that often. That doesn't mean it isn't in them. That doesn't mean they don't lie and cheat and treat people poorly in real life. It just means they get away with it.
I had friends online who are real friends. Yes, people drift away because of 'real life' then again 'real life' causes 'real' friends to drift just as often. Why is it that I get birthday cards from people in Austraila who've never heard my voice and not my co-workers? Because they're my friends. I know people on line that I can turn to.
The truth is, no matter if it's VR or RL a true friend is difficult to find. Almost impossible at times.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Okay, I'm rambling, but you catch my drift.
Svedish_Chef
On Walkabout
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Never said:
Fuck, and it wasn't me who sent you a birtday card... OK so who's the Aussie you have been hiding?
True friends you can call after 2 years and go and see and they are still there for you. Never's last sentence says it all for me...
Dixon Carter Lee
Headliner
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Siren said:
If sobriety is a "man" quality, well, uh, okay.
We're all talking about degrees of emotional investment here, and there's just no way that an Internet, Telephone or Candygram relationship is going to ever afford you the same sort of emotional investment opportunities that face time will.
Friendships, love affairs and loyalty are built on actions, not conversations. You can't attend a birthday party, or show up with a beer on a bad day, or help him shop for the perfect Mother's Day gift, or support him in an argument with the counter girl at McDonald's on the telephone. All you can do is chat agreeably, and maybe mail a card or two. It's very nice, but it's not in any way comparable.
The guys' a dick, no doubt. Walking away is a shitty thing to do, but, where no actions are invested, it's not incomprehensible.
Sorry you got hurt, Cheyenne.
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Cheyenne
Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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Dixon Carter Lee said:
DCL, you normally read better than that. Here is one of my opening paragraphs from this thread:
"I had a discussion tonight with a fellow Lit member. The same thing happened to her with another Lit member a couple months ago. One minute good friends, the next, nothing. She never did figure out what happened to their friendship. "
I'm not talking about me here. The specific instance I'm talking about involves two other Lit members from about two months ago. The female in the friendship also happens to be a friend of mine. The male is an acquaintance, I'd say. My point was that the abrupt ending was still bugging her now, and I could relate to that lingering feeling based on things in my own past. Lack of closure is the way I would desribe the problem.
I am clarifying that it isn't me but another regular member only because I want the other half of that demolished friendship to recognize himself when he reads this and think about what he did. I'll never know if that happens, of course, but it is more likely to occur if he is clear that this thread wasn't about me, but about the friend that he ditched.
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