Guns: A Research Question.

[Sateema Lunasi]

I would have posted this in Author's hang out where it most likely belongs but I am more likely to get an answer in here.

I need to know what kind of guns police officers use. ???
Also, what kind of gun might a rogue bounty hunting ex-secret service agent use? Something cool.

No, I am not glorifying vioelence here, it is just hard to write a story about the intrigues of secret service men, a greek heiress on the lamb and hit men without using guns in the story, or at least mentioning them.

Any help?

 

[MidnightAngel]

The one police office I've dated had a .38 (Ummm...his gun was a .38 ......his police-issue service revolver. )

Some also have 9mm

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

It depends upon the individual police department.

DC uses Glocks. But it's different every where you go. The all need a good bigger caliber. .357mag, .45ACP, .44Sig, 9mmLuger, etc..

Smith & Wesson, Colt, Browning, Berretta, Ruger - all big names make weapons in these calibers.

Some police departments even let the officer choose his weapon if it fits "general criteria" mandated by the local government. Interesting too is that same mandated criteria will hold the choices of "exactly what type" of ammunition is allowed or not allowed.

 

[Shockdoctor]

I think most police officers use some model of .38,

this link http://www.ci.madison.wi.us/police/PDF%20Files/6-202.PDF provides some more info.

 

[Sateema Lunasi]

Thanks people! Mmmmmuuuuaaahhhh Kiss.

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

In RL as opposed to "movie cool,"

handguns owned and operated by lawmen - are not very "flashy." Chrome and nickle plate - reflect light - not good if you would prefer to keep a lower profile - especially while on stakeout. Dark "blued," teflon, or Parkerized finishes are "in." Small is in. The big gun Dirty Harry uses - a .44 Mag S&W is way to big and clumsy by today's standards. The optimum equation would be some sort of really small (about as big as an average mans hand) lightweight polymer frame - dark colored - as big of a "man stopping" caliber as possible and as many rounds - (they average between 7 and 10 now days) - that is reliable and safe - is the cool gun to have.

 

[SweetBrat73]

police...most popular is a 44 mag...some use a 45 cal...most detectives like to carry a 38 special or a 38 snub nose because it can be consealed easy. Also police carry a M16 in the truck...used if they think a criminal is wearing a bullet proof vest. They also have a shotgun locked on the dash of the car.

ex secret service...maybe a US military issued 45 baretta or the same as a police dective.

Hope this helps.


Brat

 

[Sateema Lunasi]

This is helping TONS. Thanks again

 

[JazzManJim]

Weeeee! Something in my realm of expertise!


Most police departments don't use the .38 for their rank and file beat officers. It's small and really hard to aim at a distance beyond, say, 30 feet. They reserve those for use by plainclothes detectives (because the snubnose .38 is very concealable).

Uniformed patrol officers around my way use either the 9MM or .40 caliber (by either Beretta or Glock, depending). They used to use .357 revolvers and you may still see some departments with them but, by and large, police departments have gone to semi-automatic weapons. Any holdouts tend to be in poorer departments or out in the Western US (I think I heard that New Mexico or Arizona Highway Patrol were still carrying .357s).

Officers can also carry "secondary" weapons, authorized by their department. Those are weapons owned by the officer, carried in secreted places as an amergency if, for some reason, they lose their issued firearm in a struggle or accident. Those tend to be the smaller, fewer-shot weapons like the .38 snubnose and the .380 semi-automatic. Some carry 4 or 5 shot 9MM or .40 caliber guns, too. Officers usually carry those in ankle holsters, or in "pancake" holsters which are hidden in the wastebands of their pants.

How's that?

 

[Shockdoctor]

Wow, you wouldn't happen to be a cop or ex-cop would you JazzManJim?

 

[Sparky Kronkite]

I just happen to be picking up some new pieces tomorrow....

A Kel-Tek P-11 pistol and a really cool Kel-Tec SubRifle - both in 9mm. I'm having them Parkerized to. The little pistol can hold 11 with one in the chamber too. Pretty spiff pair I'd say.

Check'em out at -

http://kel-tec.com/prod01.htm

And -

http://kel-tec.com/prod03.htm

Cheap thrills too. Both for under $700 with excesories.

 

[JazzManJim]

Wow, you wouldn't happen to be a cop or ex-cop would you JazzManJim?

Close. I've been a police dispatcher for about 13 years. I'm not a cop, but have worked around them long enough, been out drinking, and been party to an awful lot of firearms discussions over the years.

Hell, I don't even own a gun!

 

[MidnightAngel]

Hell, I don't even own a gun!

Wanna borrow one? I've got lots of 'em!

 

[Weird Harold]

I need to know what kind of guns police officers use. ???
Also, what kind of gun might a rogue bounty hunting ex-secret service agent use? Something cool.

Most of the answers so far are applicable to US police departments. Greek, and othr European Police Agencies have different standards -- English police are famed for not carrying guns at all (at least not beat officers). Some Police agencies outside of the US don't issue handguns to their officers, providing them with something like an UZI (9mm submachine gun) or AK-47 (7.62 Assault rifle.)

A bounty hunter would be less concerned about "cool" than about concealability and stopping power. I wouldn't worry a lot about specific brands and models of weapons though. Most people can tell the difference between an AK-47 and everything else because of the news emphasis on how terrible "Assault Rifles" are. They can probably tell the difference between an automatic and a revolver, or a rifle and a pistol, but couldn't tell you the difference between a Glock and a Colt ACP at first glance.

One thing to consider -- how big a gun looks depends on which end of the gun you're on. Even a .22 looks like a sewer pipe when you're staring down the barrel.

 

[Guest]

Once, when I was driving my taxi, two Japanese hitmen who had flown in from Canada, wanted to know if I could get them a .22 caliber handgun with a silencer. Of course they didn't tell me they were hitmen, but why fly into a country and then buy a gun with a silencer. Not hard to figure out. (I turned them down when I realized this gun would probabley be used tokill someone. Also, I probabley would have been next.) Why leave a taxi-driver behind as a potential witness? I don't think so.

So, hitmen sometimes use 22's with silencers.

 

[sf1112]

Once, when I was driving my taxi, two Japanese hitmen who had flown in from Canada, wanted to know if I could get them a .22 caliber handgun with a silencer. Of course they didn't tell me they were hitmen, but why fly into a country and then buy a gun with a silencer. Not hard to figure out. (I turned them down when I realized this gun would probabley be used tokill someone. Also, I probabley would have been next.) Why leave a taxi-driver behind as a potential witness? I don't think so.

So, hitmen sometimes use 22's with silencers.


ps: had problems with this post the first time (sorry to post twice)

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

police...most popular is a 44 mag...

.44 Remington Magnum is one of the least popular chamberings for a Law Enforcement Officer's firearm there is - for multiple reasons, not the least of which is the public relations nightmare when actually used or even just noticed by the public. Other reasons include the fact that most LEOs do not have the firearms expertise to wield a handgun chambered for .44 Mag in a law enforcement situation, most firearms chambered for .44 Mag are too large for convenient carry by an LEO and are revolvers (most LEOs carry semi-auto pistols instead of revolvers).

some use a 45 cal...most detectives like to carry a 38 special or a 38 snub nose because it can be consealed easy.

I can see from your post that you watch too much TV. Typically most LEOs carry the same standard firearm they are either issued or they are told to carry - this includes the chambering. Most LE agencies settle on one of three chamberings: 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W or .45 ACP. In revolvers, most are chambered for .357 Remington Magnum, a few .38 S&W Special.

Usually, if an LE agency adopts a particular chambering and firearm, pretty much the whole agency uses that chambering and firearm so they can can share ammo and magazines, and their training is standardized. Detectives will just use a smaller version chambered for the same cartridge - that is one reason why Glock is so popular; they have three different sizes in most of the chamberings and the mags from the larger sizes usually fit into the smaller sizes.

Glocks have the downside (for LEOs) that they do not have an "active" safety mechanism (when you pull the trigger they go bang!), so they need a little more training for people who don't engage their brain before handling a firearm (you would be surprised at how inept and unsafe many LEOs are at handling firearms - and I speak as a former LEO).

Sateema, the most popular makes LEO firearms are Glock, Beretta, S&W and H&K.

Also police carry a M16 in the truck...used if they think a criminal is wearing a bullet proof vest. They also have a shotgun locked on the dash of the car.

Some LEOs carry a rifle - especially the LAPD - but most do not.

ex secret service...maybe a US military issued 45 baretta or the same as a police dective.

The US military does not and as far as I know never has issued any Beretta (correct sp) in .45 ACP - they issue the Beretta 92F which is chambered for 9mm Parabellum. The US military used to issue M1911A1 Browning (Colt) in .45 ACP, but the military pretty much stopped issuing that handgun when they switched to 9mm. Currently, about the only military issue handgun in .45 ACP is the H&K USP, and that usually only goes to special forces.

For authors, there is a book out there about firearms specifically geared to authors who know little or nothing about firearms. I don't remember the name of it, but its purpose is to keep authors from making silly mistakes such as describing a handgun as 9mm semi-auto revolver, or a rifle as a lever action M16.

 

[peterpan]

No, I am not glorifying vioelence here, it is just hard to write a story about the intrigues of secret service men, a greek heiress on the lamb and hit men without using guns in the story, or at least mentioning them.

Any help?

Violence is ok, but I can't abide cruelty to underage sheep

 

[Weird Harold]

a lever action M16.

Isn't that the M16a1 with the "bolt assist device" sticking out of the side?

 

[patient1]

Thank You, Shy Tall Guy.

That is as I suspected, but my knowledge was a bit dated, so I saw no point in questioning her prior post.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I need to know what kind of guns police officers use. ???
Also, what kind of gun might a rogue bounty hunting ex-secret service agent use? Something cool.

No, I am not glorifying vioelence here, it is just hard to write a story about the intrigues of secret service men, a greek heiress on the lamb and hit men without using guns in the story, or at least mentioning them.

Any help?

Oops! Sorry! I glossed over the USSS aspect. Last I heard, USSS agents are issued Sig-Sauer P229s chambered for .357 SIG (40 S&W necked down to 9mm - it has similar ballistics to the .357 Magnum in the lighter projectiles). They are also sometimes issued H&K MP5 SMGs (not sure of the chambering, possibly either 10mm or .45 ACP).

As for "hit men" - umm, there are very few real/professional "hit men", most "hit men" are just cheap thugs who are just as likely to sell out the people who hire them to the police rather than actually kill someone for money. What firearm they would use could widely vary depending on who they are and what they had handy.

A few tips - most would not use supressed (silenced) firearms as the possesion of a sound supressor in the US without the proper tax paperwork in itself a federal felony, and in some states supressors are just plain flat out illegal. Same goes for select-fire firearms such as an MP5 SMG; firearms capable of full-automatic fire require special background checks and the paying of a tax when transferred/purchased. It is very rare that these types of firearms are actually used in crime - despite what TV and the newspapers would have you believe.

If a hit man want to silently kill someone with a firearm, it is more likely that they would wrap a handgun with a pillow than go to the trouble of acquiring and using a sound supressor. Even more likely would be that they would use a baseball bat, a hammer, etc.

Not that they are above using illegal weapons - just that the mere possesion of such could result in them going to prison, and there is little reason for them to expose themselves thusly. If I were stopped by a traffic cop with a firearm in my automobile I would be checked for priors and let go because I have no record, if I were stopped and I had a supressor or MP5 without the proper paperwork I would be arrested.

An ex-USSS agent would probably not be using an MP5 SMG, and might not even want to use a Sig-Sauer (although they are an exquisitely nice firearm). For that matter, an ex-USSS agent probably wouldn't be a bounty hunter - with all due respect to bounty hunters (which is actually very little), an ex-USSS agent would/could have just about any law enforcement/protection job they wanted - public or private. Bounty hunters usually have little if any law enforcement experience - usually they are bouncers from bars who can't pass the physical to get into an LE agency.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Isn't that the M16a1 with the "bolt assist device" sticking out of the side?

No - that's the "pump action" M16

Seriously, there are some pump action versions of the M16 out there; the idea is to use the base parts of an AR15, but circumvent legal restrictions of some locales on semi-auto versions.

 

[Weird Harold]

Seriously, there are some pump action versions of the M16 out there; the idea is to use the base parts of an AR15, but circumvent legal restrictions of some locales on semi-auto versions.

I an see how that would be an easy conversion, but I'll bet if you referred toit in a story you'd get tons of hate mail about how big an idiot you are.

Like I said earlier, other than obvious things like semi-auto-revolvers, authors should stick to what the character would know about guns -- ie most people can't tell a Glock from a Mattel. Alla victim really knows most of the time, is that somebody has something the size of a sewer pipe pointed at their face and they're going to die soon. Noticing details of model and caliber is not foremost in most people's mind at a time like that.

Now a captor might brag about his (or her) favorite plaything, a la Dirty Harry (Do you feel lucky?) but most of the rest of the cast is just going to notice the bare minimum of (maybe) revolver or automatic, maybe only handgun vs long gun. They will almost always over-estimate the size of the weapon if it's pointed at them and underestimate it otherwise.

 

[La Huesera]

Most MO. State Hwy. Patrol, Water Patrol, Conservation, County, and City police around where I live use .40 Glocks

 

[JazzManJim]

Wanna borrow one? I've got lots of 'em!

C'mere hon and wrap your hand around another big barrel.

Actually...yeah..I love target shooting and plinking around int he woods with guns. I've a couple friends through the years with whom I've done that, using their guns. It was a lot of fun and I learned a lot more than I would have just by reading a book or listening to them talk about it.