Guidelines for Good Criticism

SimonDoom

Kink Lord
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Apr 9, 2015
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Earlier today I got a new comment on a story I'd written well over a year ago: "Total rubbish." I've done this long enough and have a thick enough skin that it didn't bother me. But the comment got me to thinking about what constitutes good criticism and bad criticism. I try to follow these basic guidelines when I write comments, which also are what I like to see in comments or criticism I receive:

1. Be constructive. The number 1 rule. The purpose of a comment should be constructive and helpful -- to praise the author for achieving something good or to point out in a useful way how the author might have done something better.

2. Don't be insulting or dismissive and don't use obscenity. "Total rubbish" is dismissive and unhelpful. I want to know HOW my story was rubbish and how I might make it less rubbishy. "Cuckshit", same thing.

3. Help the author write a better version of his/her story rather than a story that's more like how or what you write or like. It does no good to tell someone "You should have written something totally different." Criticism should be along the lines of "You were trying to accomplish X, and here's how you could have accomplished it more effectively."

4. Do not impose your own moral views or what you think are acceptable or unacceptable types of erotica. Related to number 3. This is not helpful. If someone's cup of tea is poison for you, it's totally unhelpful for you to tell them so or criticize them for it. It may make you feel good but it doesn't help them. If it's a published story, then presumably it's passed Laurel's test, and the author doesn't need to hear your disapproval. This criticism does NOT apply to unpublished works where the author wants to know if it satisfies Laurel's content guidelines.

5. Be specific. If the author did something you don't like as a reader, be specific and give an example of what it was so the author knows what you are talking about.

6. Try to do more than just give your own subjective opinion. This dovetails with (3). It's not helpful to hear "I would do this differently." Explain why, and give a reason why a change should be made that's tied to making the story.

7. Try to find something you like in the story. We're all human and it's hard to be criticized. It goes down better when there's a little praise offered as well.

8. Be judicious about comments on spelling, grammar, and style. I know people are all over the map about this. Some authors don't like giving or receiving this kind of advice. I DO like to receive comments about these errors so I can identify whether it's a repetitive problem I need to be on guard to correct. I try not to be a spelling/grammar Nazi but I do point out certain kinds of things that authors frequently slip up on and which significantly impair my ability to enjoy the story, like unconscious tense-shifting or point of view shifting, or lack of basic knowledge about how to write dialogue. A little of this goes a long way.

9. Finally, don't be an asshole. It kind of falls under some of the others above, but it's a good idea when you're done writing a comment to ask yourself, "Am I being an asshole?" I have hit the comment delete button a few times when I wrote something and was about to send it but then thought to myself that the recipient might think I'm an asshole.

Agreements or disagreements about these? Anyone have other guidelines for good criticism?
 
Any response from a provoked reader is better than no response. Any comment is worth exactly the effort put into it. I'm not paid to write; readers aren't paid to review; we all do this for the lulz.

IOW -- I don't sweat critiques. If they're correct, fine. If not, then feh.
 
Earlier today I got a new comment on a story I'd written well over a year ago: "Total rubbish." I've done this long enough and have a thick enough skin that it didn't bother me. But the comment got me to thinking about what constitutes good criticism and bad criticism

The readers aren't usually giving you criticism. They're giving you a gut-level reaction. Personally, that's the reaction I want, even if it's non-constructive and laced with obscenities.

You can take College-level courses in literary critique if you want. We had a reader who went by the name of JohnnySpade who did that and made the mistake of declaring himself the "critic laureate of Literotica," which as you might imagine got him an unfavorable reaction.

I offered my second story on Lit as fodder to see how well he did. His response is here (you have to scroll down). I thought it was a good critique, though I wished his rating scale were different.

Take a look. Is that the sort of thing you expect the readers to give you?
 
No amount of praise has ever motivated someone to do better or strive for greater achievement than criticism. If that were the case, basic training in the military would be a lot different, churning out pussies too afraid to do what it takes to accomplish the mission.
🐾Kant
 
The readers aren't usually giving you criticism. They're giving you a gut-level reaction. Personally, that's the reaction I want, even if it's non-constructive and laced with obscenities.

You can take College-level courses in literary critique if you want. We had a reader who went by the name of JohnnySpade who did that and made the mistake of declaring himself the "critic laureate of Literotica," which as you might imagine got him an unfavorable reaction.

I offered my second story on Lit as fodder to see how well he did. His response is here (you have to scroll down). I thought it was a good critique, though I wished his rating scale was different.

Take a look. Is that the sort of thing you expect the readers to give you?

No. First of all, there's way too much of the critic talking about himself and his views. Too much filler.
No one needs to hear that.

I didn't read your story but I didn't agree with the advice that there wasn't enough description of physical appearance. There's no need for the author to do this. Often, it's better if the author doesn't.

The comment could be cut in half. What's left would be decent criticism.

3 stars seems too low to me for the comment given, considering the average score in incest is much, much higher than that.
 
No amount of praise has ever motivated someone to do better or strive for greater achievement than criticism. If that were the case, basic training in the military would be a lot different, churning out pussies too afraid to do what it takes to accomplish the mission.
🐾Kant

I sure don't agree with that. It depends on the situation. Writing a story is not basic training. A combination of praise and criticism works much better, IMO, than criticism alone.
 
3 stars seems too low to me for the comment given, considering the average score in incest is much, much higher than that.

He was using the scale defined by the site, which is/was different from the way most people vote.
 
No amount of praise has ever motivated someone to do better or strive for greater achievement than criticism. If that were the case, basic training in the military would be a lot different, churning out pussies too afraid to do what it takes to accomplish the mission.
🐾Kant

"ALL RIGHT YOU MAGGOTS I WANT TO SEE PENS IN THOSE HANDS AND SCRIBBLING IN THOSE BOOKS, GIVE ME 750 WORDS IN EROTIC COUPLINGS NOW OR EVERYONE WILL BE ON FIRE WATCH TONIGHT!!!"

"But gee whiz," Sergeant Carter, "If I write about Stan an me an 'awaii nobody back home in Mayberry is really gonna want to read about it, you know, I mean us bein' guys and all."
 
No. First of all, there's way too much of the critic talking about himself and his views. Too much filler.
I'm with Simon - that "critique" wasn't about NotWise's story, it was about the critic.

To expect intelligent input from story Comments is a crap-shoot at the best of times. When it comes it's wonderful, but to expect the nay-sayers to articulate their reasons in any kind of meaningful way is hopelessly optimistic: a) they can't; and b) they don't want to.

One of the champions of the Feedback Forum (a few years back, now) was Lien Geller. Those critiques were fearless, articulate, expansive - you might not like what was being said, but you sure knew why it was being said. I submitted one of my early pieces for a review, and whilst I wasn't exactly eviscerated, I was flayed and tortured because the bastard was fucking right (even when wrong ;)).

Simon's list of things to do is a good list of decent behaviour (and over in the Feedback Forum I think we do our best, in a jumbled sort of way, to do those things). But to expect the great unwashed to adhere 100% to being decent people is... well, they ain't going to change any time soon.

Besides, if the category police suddenly changed their spots, where's the fun in that? What would we bitch about?
 
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One of the champions of the Feedback Forum (a few years back, now) was Lien Geller. Those critiques were fearless, articulate, expansive - you might not like what was being said, but you sure knew why it was being said. I submitted one of my early pieces for a review, and whilst I wasn't exactly eviscerated, I was flayed and tortured because the bastard was fucking right (even when wrong ;)).

I think that what Mr. Doom wants isn't so much a critic as a teacher.

Re Lien. I think I read everything he wrote after I joined here. It was amusing and insightful. It was also stream-of-consciousness. It seemed like he read through once and commented as he went, so he sometimes criticized things that came clear later.

I'd love to see him return, though maybe not on one of my stories. Or maybe on one of my stories.

Edit: regarding the critique on my story, I thought it was long, but totally on point. He picked out what was good and what was bad, and he laid his comments out in a constructive framework. I'd already had a lot of input on the story so it was a good check.
 
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I think that what Mr. Doom wants isn't so much a critic as a teacher.

Re Lien. I think I read everything he wrote after I joined here. It was amusing and insightful. It was also stream-of-consciousness. It seemed like he read through once and commented as he went, so he sometimes criticized things that came clear later.

I'd love to see him return, though maybe not on one of my stories. Or maybe on one of my stories.

Edit: regarding the critique on my story, I thought it was long, but totally on point. He picked out what was good and what was bad, and he laid his comments out in a constructive framework. I'd already had a lot of input on the story so it was a good check.
I tend to agree (to both comments). Yes, I think Lien wrote whilst reading, part of the pleasure was the commentary itself. I chickened out with offering up a second story - I was still too much in love with Amelia from Rope and Veil, and that one was too precious to get shattered :).
 
Agreements or disagreements about these? Anyone have other guidelines for good criticism?

10. Don't be condescending. When I have reacted negatively to criticism, it has been because I felt that I was being condescended to.
 
I think Simon’s points are very instructive if we are talking about ā€˜How to be a useful Litizen’. But are the comments that readers sometimes leave really criticism? Or are they just comments? I suggest that the two are a world apart.
 
I realize I'm not being entirely realistic. My guidelines are more a matter of aspiration than expectation.
Most of the comments I get on my stories don't meet these criteria, and I don't mind that much. I was hardened early by the unbelievably nasty reactions to my Loving Wives spoof story 2 1/2 years ago. They still make me laugh.

I don't expect a lecture. I've read one paragraph comments that contained one or more useful insightful nuggets, and that's plenty.
 
I figured it out...

I am Hermann Rorschach, and my stories published on Lit are India ink blots on 90# cardstock.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann
 
5. Be specific. If the author did something you don't like as a reader, be specific and give an example of what it was so the author knows what you are talking about.

This is also a good idea for positive feedback. I'm always happy to get an "I loved this story", but "I loved this story because of X" is more useful and makes more of an impression on me. Especially when X is something I was trying hard on.

8. Be judicious about comments on spelling, grammar, and style. I know people are all over the map about this. Some authors don't like giving or receiving this kind of advice. I DO like to receive comments about these errors so I can identify whether it's a repetitive problem I need to be on guard to correct.

Also, if you're going to give that kind of feedback, make sure it's correct. Don't be the person who recently posted a spelling "correction" on one of mine because they weren't aware that "looses" is a word. Stop and check a dictionary/style guide/etc. and remember that there's more than one version of English.
 
Personally, I do not reckon I know enough about the craft of writing to make a 'sweeping comment'.
Particularly when it gets down and dirty with parts of speech.

I'll say if I have enjoyed it, though.
 
Just yesterday, I came across a YouTube video with pretty high production values, made by an Arabic person or group of some reasonable intellect and education I would say. It was setting out to make videos promoting the Arabic culture, ostensibly NOT from the typical Western 'Orientalism' viewpoint - and the narrator discussed a few folkloric stories from the Arab culture, and then he mentioned Lovecraft and basically proceeded to describe some of the named 'occult/mystical' Arab figures Lovecraft mentioned in his stories, AS THOUGH THESE WERE ACTUAL REAL PEOPLE AND NARRATIVES FROM REAL ARABIC TRADITION AND HISTORY.

So this is almost a hundred years after Lovecraft passed away, no millionaire by any means, and certainly never properly respected for the historian and literary researcher that he was in his own time.

Readers, critics, historians, academics... ...mangle everything.

Can we 'train' them to be a little bit more thoughtful...

A great question if you think about it from a purely positive mindset. Succeed and you will have changed the course of world history.
 
Agreements or disagreements about these? Anyone have other guidelines for good criticism?
My advice to readers would be to leave a comment. What it says doesn't matter. I just enjoy getting comments and want more of them.

Comments are both useful and not very useful. One person's very short opinion doesn't tell me much, but lots of different short opinions might tell me something.

The only comments I leave now days are thanks to the writer for sharing an enjoyable story.
 
Advise from Lisa's mom.

"Never argue with a pig. It makes you look stupid, and it annoys the pig."

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann
 
This is also a good idea for positive feedback. I'm always happy to get an "I loved this story", but "I loved this story because of X" is more useful and makes more of an impression on me. Especially when X is something I was trying hard on.



Also, if you're going to give that kind of feedback, make sure it's correct. Don't be the person who recently posted a spelling "correction" on one of mine because they weren't aware that "looses" is a word. Stop and check a dictionary/style guide/etc. and remember that there's more than one version of English.

I have, on a couple occasions, gotten more confused on grammar issues when multiple commenters have given conflicting advice.
 
Yeah, but first you have to figure out who the pig is.
One evening in October,
When I was far from sober,
And carrying a load with manly pride,
I began to slip and stutter,
So I laid down in the gutter.
And a pig came up and lay right by my side.
I warbled, "It's fair weather
When good fellows get together!"
But a Christian passing by was heard to say,
"You can tell a man who boozes
By the company he chooses."
Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.
--traditional
Goo-goo-ga-joob.
 
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