Grief mgmt.

[zuzub]

Hi zuzub! I just read through your thread. Having lost first my Dad at 13 (effects and sadness still linger) and my Baba in my 20's (Slovak for grandmother - she was the one who really raised me as my mom worked), I don't think that you have any need to apologize.

I do agree with those who have advised that you get on with your life. Sometimes that can be harder when you have the financial resources through family or finances to continue sinking into sadness - if life demands that you "pick yourself up" it's easier to do at some level.

I cannot imagine your Mom not wanting you to have the full life that you deserve. And I have to "ditto" what EG and others have said about reaching out to others, doing for others, as one solution. I can't speak for anyone else but for me, volunteering has not only helped me to "get out of myself," it has given my losses purpose that helped me to rediscover joy in living.

Is there anything in particular that touches your heart (e.g., animals, young children, etc., older people who are alone, folks who are homeless)? This could be the place to start.

Neon

You and Satin are pure class. I will try to listen to your advice because of where it comes from. That is true for all of you. Sex or no sex, this is one of the most healthy, together places I've ever been and it's a pleasure to know you (if just a bit). It just makes me laugh sometimes. Mainstream has no clue. If they did, you'd be looking at Titanic sized membership. So maybe I'll keep it to myself.... <grin>

 

[zuzub]

Why do you have to fit into their picture?

Because my life was always about family and suddenly it isn't.

 

[zuzub]

Why do you have to fit into their picture? How about painting one of your own? And it doesn't have to be a mural big enough to decorate the new World Trade Center (or whatever they're gonna call it) buildings - some of the most glorious works of art are miniatures, little bits of perfection as small as 2 inches square.

Okay, enough of the metaphor What arouses enough interest in you that you'd be willing to give up some definite portion of your "off time," of which you have a plenitude? Do you like animals? Go to a local animal shelter and volunteer an hour or two every other day, or four hours a week to "visit" with the animals, give them some individual human contact/attention time while they're there. They get lonely in those cages. Do you like old folks? Go to a nursing home and visit with some of the folks there who don't have any visitors. God knows there are lots of them! If you like gardening, someone suggested finding a vacant lot and planting a flowerbed... or find one in a disadvantaged area, and plant pole beans, carrots, etc., etc., for the area residents to pick once they're grown - and maybe even show some of them how to take care of the plants once they've shown an interest. No matter what your interests are, you can find a way to share them with others who may not normally get an opportunity to enjoy them, if you try.

You seem to be a basically good person who, through no fault of her own, has some advantages that many others don't, along with having suffered some losses and setbacks that have made you question your own worth. The first step to recover from those questions is to stop comparing yourself to others in and around your family whose accomplishments you've mentioned. Compare yourself to you and what you can accomplish if you try. You've as much as outright said that you're wasting your talents and your time, so... figure out your talents and interests, and how they can be used to make you a better you. Don't get me wrong - 'taint easy. The first steps won't be. But as you make yourself take those first steps, you'll find that each succeeding step will likely get a little easier. There may be times when you backslide a little. Beat yourself (figuratively) with a wet noodle for five minutes or so, then regain the area lost, and move forward again.

Somehow my marriage proposal got wiped. However, it still stands. Will you marry me? As I said before, I have a really annoying family but we can move to Costa Rica (as long as they have indoor plumbing and decent take out).

I also admitted that my family kind of scares me now. When I was growing up we had nothing. Now we have all this shit and I feel like I don't really know them anymore. They think I should have all this stuff too, but I am my mama's girl. Just give me a bed, a computer & a stereo and I'm ok. Well, throw in the dealer while you're at it.... Now we're talking. <grin>

 

[satindesire]

Thank you very much.

Here's another of my two pesos.

You can't take material possessions with you in the afterlife.

-THINGS- are just that. Soulless items of matter strung together to keep us entertained while we're trapped here in corporeal form. What really matters is how you loved yourself and the people around you.

Your decisions affect those around you in ways you may not see, sometimes for years later. But let me tell you this...you funding illegal activity with your habit is one of those choices that can and eventually will cause cause-and-effect ripples to spread out and can end up hurting people. And yourself. There's no such thing as 'maximum personal freedom'...everything you do from what you eat and where you work affects people, and what you buy and what you put into your system does too!

Numbing yourself with pot and hooch is escapism in it's lowest form. Just because you hurt doesn't mean you won't survive. And just because you feel doesn't mean you shouldn't. Feelings are okay, and so is how they affect us. Running away from them doesn't get rid of them, it only prolongs their affect on our lives.

What's better? Leaving the dishes in the sink to pile up and pile up, or just throw them in the dishwasher and nip the stink (and flies) in the bud? God knows we all hate doing the dishes, but they gotta get done.

I know it's a bit of an odd way to put it, but you MUST allow yourself to be sad. Pushing it away, repressing it or trying to kill it with mind altering substances will only cause the problem to worsen as time goes on, because once your body becomes dependent on the pot and booze, it won't know how to handle stress without it, leaving you feeling overwhelmed, lost, and confused.

Make a choice and do it. Don't procrastinate, if you want something, go after it! You see the effect of your choices everyday and now you don't even recognize yourself in the mirror anymore....that's a HUGE red flag that your life has got to do a real 180 before anything gets worse.

You are gonna hurt and you are gonna be scared and you are gonna feel lazy...and you will be afraid of what your family thinks about you. Be okay with that. And get on with your life in the best way you know how. ^_^

Many prayers and kisses sent your way.

 

[zuzub]

Thank you very much.

Here's another of my two pesos.

You can't take material possessions with you in the afterlife.

Don't I know it. I will NEVER forget going through all my mom's stuff and thinking "Is this it? Is this what a life amounts to?". It made me incredibly sad to sit in a room with her clothes and her jewelry and her shoes and try to find something that had meaning. In the end, I gave away everything except her running shoes that I used to tie for her and the hat I used to put on her head. Those things had meaning for me. Not much else did. Jesus. This is making me cry.

 

[satindesire]

Those things had meaning for me. Not much else did.

And even if you didn't have those things, you'd still have those memories...and isn't that what means the most?

I am so glad that my airheaded prattling could be of some use to you. My PM box will ALWAYS be open for ya.

 

[zuzub]

And even if you didn't have those things, you'd still have those memories...and isn't that what means the most?

I am so glad that my airheaded prattling could be of some use to you. My PM box will ALWAYS be open for ya.

Thank you and also, you're a lot smarter than you give yourself credit for.

 

[Hummingbyrd]

I've been on 'meds' for almost 2 years and it scares the hell out of me. I've had literal nightmares about being in a foreign country and running out of Effexor. It's my version of "Hostel".

Have you discussed a change in meds with your doc? Maybe effexor is the wrong one. It may not be that but it it's worth discussing. I wish I could make it better.

 

[zuzub]

Have you discussed a change in meds with your doc? Maybe effexor is the wrong one. It may not be that but it it's worth discussing. I wish I could make it better.

Not recently. I guess now would be the time. But it scares the hell out of me to screw around with the meds. Take away the booze, fine. Take away the pot, fine (I hate you). But take away the pills and I am well and truly fucked. If you want to know what it's like to be a heroin addict, try going off anti-depressants. It's like trying to fuction under heavy duty electro shock therapy. I can't drive or keep anything down for weeks. It's one hell of a weight loss plan.

Don't get me wrong. They kept me from killing myself, so I'll never say they're bad. But they're not pretty either and should NEVER be undertaken lightly.

I know you mean I should maybe switch or change dosage, but I'm even afraid of that. I am terribly, terribly afraid of fucking around with these drugs. I tried it once a year ago and ended up slitting both my wrists quite effectively (go up and down, not across). More drama, anyone?

 

[zuzub]

OK, all this depressive stuff sucks ass. Let's have some fun! I'm working on becoming bipolar. At least those people have SOME fun... Don't knock mania 'til you try it. <evil grin>

 

[zuzub]

I thought about what everyone said and I realized that I've gotten so used to feeling lousy that I haven't noticed how bad it's become. It's literally taken over my life.

I'm down to eating once every second or third day. Pretty soon, I'll be able to go for 4 days or more without food. I've canceled the gym because I don't have the physical strength to do it anymore. I sleep (or don't) for days at a time. I drink when I'm awake, if I'm not in too much pain from the last time. I don't go out and I don't return calls. I don't clean my house. I don't bathe. I feel like I'm dying or want to.

When I look at it on paper, I realize that I'm describing 'severe depression' ie failure to function. Fear of meds or not, I gotta go see the doctor. This situation is out of control and I don't seem able to bring it back by myself.

 

[Netzach]

Not recently. I guess now would be the time. But it scares the hell out of me to screw around with the meds. Take away the booze, fine. Take away the pot, fine (I hate you). But take away the pills and I am well and truly fucked. If you want to know what it's like to be a heroin addict, try going off anti-depressants. It's like trying to fuction under heavy duty electro shock therapy. I can't drive or keep anything down for weeks. It's one hell of a weight loss plan.

Don't get me wrong. They kept me from killing myself, so I'll never say they're bad. But they're not pretty either and should NEVER be undertaken lightly.

I know you mean I should maybe switch or change dosage, but I'm even afraid of that. I am terribly, terribly afraid of fucking around with these drugs. I tried it once a year ago and ended up slitting both my wrists quite effectively (go up and down, not across). More drama, anyone?

So don't. Don't listen to the Tom Cruise bullshit - if they're keeping you from killing yourself it is entirely possible they're a medical necessity.

 

[catalina_francisco]

zuzub, I'm sorry because I do not know whether you are for real or just attention seeking, and have been this way since the first post, but I will admit to being more than a little disenchanted with your repetitive 'thanks, you are all so great' speeches when you can't even have the respect and decency to get it right about who it was who was human and real enough to share their loss of a child with you in the hopes of helping you, and someone who is highly respected and loved here.

My best suggestion is you get a little real with yourself, whether this is a real story or whether it is just fun for you, because until you do, I can't really see any point in the discussion. I guess perhaps it is my professional experience coming our here, but if you really are as into meds, drugs and alcohol (not to mention the rest) as you put out there, pity is only an aid to enabling and encouraging you to continue and quite frankly, in such situations hard lines and less soft and gentle approaches work far better. If you aren't, then have the decency to not use others' pain for your own entertainment value. I just feel so very disgusted that you could be so self absorbed and thoughtless as to offer your gratitude for something so heartbreaking to the wrong person, and then continue gibbering on about marriage proposals etc to the Doms on the board. Sorry, but I think you are a very shallow person, and for that, there is not a lot anyone else can do. Have a nice life.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

You're too smart for me. No, I'm not mocking AT ALL. I take the point about middle class whining. You're right, I wouldn't have all this time to jerk around if I had to worry about keeping a roof over my head. Different people have different problems I guess, but mine are silly in comparison. Proust is harsh though! That's just plain mean. <smile>

I believe in God and I go to mass (almost) every sunday. My brother believes in branding. He must, because everything he owns has a high end logo, right down to the rolex. I've never understood how such a smart man can be such a slave to Marketing. My dad's gf is the same. Her brother is dating the Editor of French Elle magazine. Apparently fashion is distasteful, but the fact that she's an Editor makes it ok. And I will fit into this picture how?

Hey, I don't mean it critically, I don't think it's whining. You are in a unique vantage point - having money doesn't make you shallow and it's not a crime. It's just where you're at. What you do with it is the issue. Proust maybe is mean, but he also had a comfortable background and a sad existence, if you catch my drift. I would not trade problems with someone just because they've got cash and I don't. I hung with the elite throughout my education and I would totally totally NOT trade lives.

You clearly don't want to fit into that picture - while this is causing some tension and despair I think this is to your credit. You are clearly facing down the big questions and you are not fitting into your family's values - that's not a bad thing though. In my estimation going to mass has more value than branding too, but I'm not really in a position to judge. My point is that you are at a point of wondering what to do next, and I think the hard part is realizing how many options you actually do have, or deciding how to narrow them down.

 

[Netzach]

OK, the consensus is to lose the dealer. Dammit anyway. I've ALWAYS had the dealer, it's the shrink and the trainer that are new and I don't think they're carrying their weight. Don't get me wrong, I'm far too old to do anything other than smoke pot. Anything else hurts my body too much and I'm looking at other options in that regard anyway. <grin>

The truth is I'm an emotional coward. I don't WANT to feel things. I've spent my whole life trying to avoiding 'feeling'. I just make jokes. I find that easier and so does everyone else apparently.

But I don't have enough jokes to hide how badly wrong this is going. My jokes don't help me when I look in the mirror, either. Nothing funny here folks, just a human train wreck in the making.

I've thought about telling my dad to cut me off, but I'm too chicken. Plus, in a weird way, I think it makes me feel 'taken care of' which I miss terribly. I've thought about going to rehab but I look ridiculously lame compared to most of these people. I've gone to a couple of AA meetings and everybody looks at me like my house just fell on their witch! Hello, are you from this planet? Oh look, there's Glinda! Plus, to be honest, I'm not sure if booze/pot is the problem or just a symptom.

I know I need to get out of this prolonged pity party, I'm just not sure how. I wake up everyday and think, "today is going to be different' but it never is. I've spent my life around ass kickers. Hell, my mom was the David Beckham of Ass Kicking. That woman could 'score' from overseas. Rod (my longterm) was another MVP in the kick ass dept. My discipline has always come from external sources. I am conditioned to look outside for structure & rules. Which would make me roughly in kindergarten at this point...

OK - so lose the dealer & find something to care about that's 'bigger' than me. I've always wanted to be a foster parent. I never had kids of my own and I know what it is to need a safe, secure place, but obviously I'm in no shape to do that right now. Maybe I could start taking some prep courses though?

Since I can't bare to go back and look at what I drunkenly wrote, I will add that this has been a stellar year for death in my family. I lost my aunt, then my mom, then my grandma and now my uncle and one of my best drinking buddies have both been diagnosed with terminal cancer. It just does my head in. Why not drink? Hell, just keep drinking and join them. Technically, it isn't suicide. I care about that because I'm catholic <snort. giggle>.

Thank you all for taking the time to share your stories. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to lose a child. I'd be in the looney bin, period.
All of you show me that this CAN be done, but to do it, I need to tackle problems that I have successfully evaded to date. I don't know if I have the courage to do it, but then what are my options? Few and far between...

Honestly, I don't think the problem is that you're grieving still. I think the problem is that you are looking externally to see what you "should be" doing and feeling and the problem is that you are totally harshing on yourself for being you and for feeling the hurt and the confusion or for dealing with it in ways which may not be ideal - fuck it, if you choose to be UN ideal for a while, be kind to yourself.

You deserve some serious kindness and patience -- from you.

 

[zuzub]

zuzub, I'm sorry because I do not know whether you are for real or just attention seeking, and have been this way since the first post, but I will admit to being more than a little disenchanted with your repetitive 'thanks, you are all so great' speeches when you can't even have the respect and decency to get it right about who it was who was human and real enough to share their loss of a child with you in the hopes of helping you, and someone who is highly respected and loved here.

My best suggestion is you get a little real with yourself, whether this is a real story or whether it is just fun for you, because until you do, I can't really see any point in the discussion. I guess perhaps it is my professional experience coming our here, but if you really are as into meds, drugs and alcohol (not to mention the rest) as you put out there, pity is only an aid to enabling and encouraging you to continue and quite frankly, in such situations hard lines and less soft and gentle approaches work far better. If you aren't, then have the decency to not use others' pain for your own entertainment value. I just feel so very disgusted that you could be so self absorbed and thoughtless as to offer your gratitude for something so heartbreaking to the wrong person, and then continue gibbering on about marriage proposals etc to the Doms on the board. Sorry, but I think you are a very shallow person, and for that, there is not a lot anyone else can do. Have a nice life.

Catalina

My error was simply that. I haven't been here for very long and I don't know people very well yet. I went back to try to find the original post so that I could respond but it was gone (or atleast I can't find it). I didn't feel comfortable saying nothing, so I took a shot and it was wrong. In retro, I should have explained that I couldn't find the post, instead of trying to guess.

My concern at the moment is that the person who made the post feels the way you do. Other people's pain isn't 'entertainment' for me. I don't know how anyone survives the loss of a child. A year ago family friends lost their 17 son to suicide. It was like a bomb went off in their lives - total, utter devastation and god only knows whether their marriage and their other children will survive it. I am very, very sorry that I mistook the name, but the thoughts and emotions expressed are still with me.

I appreciate other people's thoughts and insights. To be honest, I often doubt my own, so not only do I get new ideas but I also get a 'sanity check' so to speak. Sometimes it takes me a while to distill all of the input. I find it difficult to deal with emotional situations and frequently make bad jokes etc, to buy myself time (or hide if I feel I'm getting too 'out there').

I'm not sure whether your response is about feeling 'protective' of a friend or your own feelings, but quite honestly the vitriol would suggest that this isn't just about an extremely unfortunate case of mistaken identity.

My suggestion to you is simple, if you don't like me - then don't read or respond to my posts. I will be more than pleased to extend you the same courtesy. Right now, I am working very, very hard to avoid responding to you in 'kind'.

However, I do want to thank you for pointing out my error. I needed to know that.

R.

 

[zuzub]

I'm on my way to see the doctor. I have two goals:

1. Tell the WHOLE truth. What kind of idiot lies to their doctor? <ahem, looks at feet>

2. Do NOT turn it into a joke. It will be difficult to impart just how badly this sucks ass if I am smiling and/or laughing at the time.

OK 1, 2, not that hard. I feel hopeful. YAY!

 

[JupitersGirl]

I'm on my way to see the doctor. I have two goals:

1. Tell the WHOLE truth. What kind of idiot lies to their doctor? <ahem, looks at feet>

2. Do NOT turn it into a joke. It will be difficult to impart just how badly this sucks ass if I am smiling and/or laughing at the time.

OK 1, 2, not that hard. I feel hopeful. YAY!

Fingers crossed for you, zuzub.

 

[zuzub]

While this thread is a source of embarassment (amongst others), I wanted to say Hummingbyrd & Smartie Girl (Netz) YOU WERE RIGHT! It turns out that my body was so adjusted to the meds that they had basically stopped working. The doc adjusted the dosage on Friday and already it's making a HUGE difference. Oh thank GOD! Hopefully, over time I can redeem myself from the crazy, self absorbed, aging Barbie whiner you have come to know and avoid. <grin> Thanks for helping me 'see' again.

And Shy, please forgive me for mistaking you for Hottie.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Hopefully, over time I can redeem myself from the crazy, self absorbed, aging Barbie whiner you have come to know and avoid. <grin> Thanks for helping me 'see' again.

Who said we were embarrassed?

 

[zuzub]

Who said we were embarrassed?

Sheesh. It's all about me, baby!

 

[Chris_Xavier]

?

So how are you doing?

 

[zuzub]

So how are you doing?

Hey Chris,

Slowly returning to the land of the living, thanks. I lost 18 pounds on the depression diet otherwise known as self imposed starvation. I'm trying not to be too pleased about it, but hey, i'm just looking at the bright side here!

So anyway, now that the meds have been stabilized, the next step will be some fairly intensive therapy. I need some help developing coping skills that don't come out of a bottle. I'm not someone who drinks everyday, but if something goes wrong you'll find me at the bar, or more precisely under it. Although it kills me to say it, the pot has to go too. As stupid as it sounds, it scares me to death. It's my blankie.

 

[Chris_Xavier]

Glad you are coming to grips with the fact that there is a problem. I don't know all the steps but I do believe that is the first one. Congrats!

 

[Sir_Winston54]

There are no absolutes in human nature.

I just now noticed that, and my perverted mind wondered: Is that an absolute truth?