Green Energy

[Peregrinator]

I try to explain it as easy as I can.
You use other people's money to buy in the commodities market drive the price up pull the money out take the profit repeat over and over hope like hell your not holding when the bubble bust.
Google what happened with the tulips back in the 1930's
Are dot com are housing market are the sliver market.
What goes up must come down.

I understand how it works. My question is more about why no one ever mentions it when talking about how "expensive" alternative energy sources are, or when talking about how Obama is responsible for the rise in gas prices.

 

[sigh]

That part in italics is exactly what I was referring to.

There is not more "private" in drilling on "private" lands. I am not making anything up. When it gets done on "public" land it will still be by "private" companies being micromanaged by a government that thinks it can do ANYTHING, except lower the price of energy, by its own admission...

Therefore, this is nothing like what "conservatives would prefer;" it is just two words..

In this context, they have nothing to do with the private or public debate when it comes to economics.

You clearly don't understand what I was referring to at all, but in your wisdom you've decided to argue with me about what you say I think. Again.

Go away. Your editorializing has become shrill.

It took you more words to tell me what I conflated than was in my entire initial response to you. And you pretend you're not making things up?

 

[Peregrinator]

You clearly don't understand what I was referring to at all, but in your wisdom you've decided to argue with me about what you say I think. Again.

Go away. Your editorializing has become shrill.

It took you more words to tell me what I conflated than was in my entire initial response to you. And you pretend you're not making things up?

Get back over here in the pod with me.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

http://www.blackhoodie.co.uk/products/tshirt/thumbs/a13012a01mg.jpg

 

[mercury14]

That part in italics is exactly what I was referring to.

There is not more "private" in drilling on "private" lands. I am not making anything up. When it gets done on "public" land it will still be by "private" companies being micromanaged by a government that thinks it can do ANYTHING, except lower the price of energy, by its own admission...

Therefore, this is nothing like what "conservatives would prefer;" it is just two words..

In this context, they have nothing to do with the private or public debate when it comes to economics.

Do you know why there's not more drilling on public lands? Use sourced facts in your reply please.

 

[Byron In Exile]

First off, the biggest "oil companies" are actually countries.

No, you have that backwards: the biggest oil companies are global corporations.

They have no political prejudices, and couldn't care less where the product comes from.

Why would Saudi Arabia cut back its oil in order for its competitors to profit by pricing?

It's strategy would be better served to open the pumps since their oil is easier to get to and lower prices would deter the extraction of more expensive resources...

No, its best strategy is to get the most money for what every intelligent person on this planet knows is a finite diminishing non-renewable resource.

Furthermore, you would not see the tremendous price spikes that "tiny countries" (that are actually oil companies) like Venezuela and Iran can now have on the market and thus our nation.

Translate that into English, plz...

 

[Byron In Exile]

Yes, but we're smart not to lose sight of the lessons of the past. Human nature hasn't changed radically since then...there is still lots of political intrigue and war and other disruptive events still take place from time to time and the Middle East is a center of stress these days.

After the entire world economy has undergone a complete transformation from what it was in the past, attempting to apply "lessons" from that past to the present without taking that fact into account is rather foolish.

 

[RightField]

After the entire world economy has undergone a complete transformation from what it was in the past, attempting to apply "lessons" from that past to the present without taking that fact into account is rather foolish.

The points are:

1) As much as we try to avoid it, war seems to be a part of human nature (how many wars are taking place in the world now?)

2) War and other similar confrontations that don't necessarily involve guns are a destabilizing force for societly and by extesion, economy.

3) Oil and other similar natural resources are valuable commodities that have been a motivating factor in war and other confrontation in the past and probably will be again sometime in the future.

Fair?

 

[mercury14]

Do you know why there's not more drilling on public lands? Use sourced facts in your reply please.

Nobody on the right is willing to take this on? Shocking...

 

[bra_man69]

I understand how it works. My question is more about why no one ever mentions it when talking about how "expensive" alternative energy sources are, or when talking about how Obama is responsible for the rise in gas prices.

Its where they get money for the reelection and the media in bed with them.
Fellow the money all your questions well be answered

 

[amicus]

People who attack the green economy/industry/energy/whatever, always make one of two arguments to support their advocacy of clinging to 19th century technology: Green isn't green, it has a carbon foot print; or, Green couldn't survive without government help.

Both arguments are idiotic and ignore the simple fact that one day, oil will be gone. That's a fact, not a political position. "Green" energy can replace some of the loss, but what else is there? The anti-greenies want to throw Green out as well. How fucking stupid is that? Is some alien going to come to Earth, wave his magic wand and give us another 1000 years of oil?

Yes, I said it... Oil is a finite resource. Shocking, ain't it?

~~ ~

Greenies, pinkos, the entire left wng, socialist, commumist, social democrats, are so divorced from reality and common sense that I doubt their heads ever come out of the clouds for surely their feet are not on the ground.

The Eco Freaks and the Environemtal terrorists have been at this pastoral quest since the 1960's and all with good intentions, of course, have used political pressure to destroy the energy industry of America. Not a new oil refinery or nuclear power plant built in 40 years now is it? Years and years of license and environmental challenges all intended to prevent industry from supplying the nation with the essential energy to maintan a mondern society. See how that goes hand in glove with the weenie hippies and their disease ridden flower girls, who slept with anyone anywhere any time, peace love and drugs brother and equality too, thanks to hey, hey, LBJ how many babies did you kill today.

Yes, I said it... Oil is a finite resource.

Actually, if you get out of the propoganda mode and actually think for an instant, you would understand that there are NO finite resources on earth or in nature. There is a point of diminishing returns when the commodity is more costly than efficiency and frugality requires. More oil is reaching maturity every day; everytims a vocano erupts, gold, silver, diamonds, precious metals of all kinds are created on a massive scale. The irony is, the dipshit Left hs stolen the 'conserative' philosopy of actually conservng resources and managing their business and enterprise to be cost effective and profit making. A further, delicious irony is that plate tectonics continually returns the surface mantel layer to be reborn in fire and you silly shits don't understand that all that petroleum, fossil fuels of all kinds, goes up in flames as it subducts.

These artsy fartsy wimpy feminine males and useless females have never looked ahead to imagine the world they live in going dark becaue they curtailed the major sources of energy production without a viable alternative. This is another badly intended and morally corrupt concept, the licentious Left have a mantra of faith in that they believe the world is over populated and if they exercise their power to forbid energy production, curtail land use policies to drastically increase the cost of housing....hell, I bought a three bedroom ranch on a half acre for 23 Grand in the seventies; you couldn't build a single car garage for that today as outrageous land prices, building costs because of Union Labor and rules and regulations that caused the price of a modest home. 'Sky high' prices for energy the uncouth bastard in the White House said, "I will bankrupt anyone who dares to build a coal or gas fired energy plant.

Sad and sorry for the progeny of the wasted hippies, they refuse to bear children because of their mistaken idea of over population, but will fuck every black man or Mexican to sooth their ruffled temperament about racial equality. Who knows, in 500 years perhaps all the negroid blood will be so diluted by the white genes, that the IQ of blacks may actually rise to the lowest level of caucasian intelligence and maybe the fat lips and fat women will be bred out as well.

One can calculate the approximate time the nation begins to curtail electric consumption as the thirty year lifetime of nuclear plants, about a hundred of them in the US and more in France and Japan, as the useful lifetime expires and they go off line and no new facilities will come on line for years; this country could go dark before this decade is out. Thanks, you weasely little bastards, I hope the ghetto gangs of fatherless black brutes invade your inner sanctum in every possible was as retribution for your abject and obscene stupidity. And all for what?

Black outs in cities with high black populations will be the first to descend into darkness and then it will spread as law enforcement is overwhelmed and the Watts riots will look like campfire girls and cities burn.

This fucking idiot obama is the culmination of a generation of idiocy finally come to rest in the seats of power that may well turn this country into a prison state with martial law if that cocksucking bastard is elected again.

When everyone is in souplines and singing, "Happy days are here again.." You should go out and shoot an environmentalist and as many stupid female vegetarians and vegans as you can as a service to those who survive the coming holocaust.

dah dah dah da da da, dadada dah dah dah, dah, (singalong to Happy days you imbeciles, some liberals can actually sing, but most just lip synch as they have no talent at all .

Toodles...

der amicus

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The president has boasted that domestic oil production has risen since he took office in 2009 but fails to mention that operations on private lands are responsible for the increase. The amount of petroleum extracted from federal lands - under White House jurisdiction - actually fell 13 percent in 2011, according to the Institute for Energy Research.

RF, I thought this was what conservatives preferred. More private, less federal.

This is not less "Federal."

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Nobody on the right is willing to take this on? Shocking...

Gee merc, which special subset of "federal land" did you have in mind because it sure ain't ANWAR...

 

[Saint Peter]

It's back!

 

[phrodeau]

(edited)

Actually, if you get out of the propoganda mode and actually think for an instant, you would understand that there are NO finite resources on earth or in nature. There is a point of diminishing returns when the commodity is more costly than efficiency and frugality requires. More oil is reaching maturity every day; everytims a vocano erupts, gold, silver, diamonds, precious metals of all kinds are created on a massive scale.

Ooh, that must explain why countries with volcanoes in them are so well off, like Greece.

Volcanoes don't create elements. Elements are created by nuclear fusion, which only occurs naturally in stars. The only elements that change on planet Earth are the radioactive ones as they decay. Gold, silver and other precious metals are elements of which there is a finite amount on Earth.

Diamonds are made by planetary processes out of the element carbon. There may be a limitless supply of carbon in the universe, but here on Earth, we only have as much as we've always had.

 

[pornstarwannabe]

Form Obama's 2008 speech - that was a whole lotta shit he was shoveling that day:

First, we’ll commit ourselves to getting one million 150 mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrid cars on our roads within six years. And we’ll make sure these cars are built not in Japan, not in China, but right here in the United States of America.

Second, we’ll double the amount of our energy that comes from renewable sources by the end of my first term. That means investing in the clean technology research and development that’s occurring in facilities all across the country. It means investing in tax incentives to encourage the production of renewables like wind and solar power and to develop next generation biofuels. It means finding safer ways to use nuclear power and store nuclear waste, and to use more coal, ones of America’s most abundant energy sources. And it means working to modernize our national utility grid so it can accommodate these new power sources without being overrun by blackouts.

Finally, I will call on businesses, government, and the American people to meet the goal of reducing our demand for electricity 15% by the end of the next decade. This is by far the fastest, easiest, and cheapest way to reduce our energy consumption – and it will save us $130 billion on our energy bills. One report found that right here in Ohio, improvements in energy efficiency can help save homes and businesses $1.5 billion in energy costs by 2020.

The state of California has implemented such a successful efficiency strategy that while electricity consumption grew 60% in this country over the last three decades, it didn’t grow at all in California. There is no reason we can’t do the same thing all across America.

In just ten years, these three steps will produce enough renewable energy to replace all the oil we import from the Middle East. Along with the cap-and-trade program I’ve proposed, we will reduce our dangerous carbon emissions 80% by 2050, slow the warming of our planet, and create five million new jobs in the process.

 

[JohnnySavage]

...



Actually, if you get out of the propoganda mode and actually think for an instant, you would understand that there are NO finite resources on earth or in nature. There is a point of diminishing returns when the commodity is more costly than efficiency and frugality requires. More oil is reaching maturity every day; everytims a vocano erupts, gold, silver, diamonds, precious metals of all kinds are created on a massive scale. ... A further, delicious irony is that plate tectonics continually returns the surface mantel layer to be reborn in fire and you silly shits don't understand that all that petroleum, fossil fuels of all kinds, goes up in flames as it subducts.

...

Funny stuff.

 

[RightField]

This thread sure has taken an odd turn.

 

[RightField]

Obama’s energy lies
By JAY AMBROSE
New York Post 3/25/12

In his weasel-worded decision to block a perfectly harmless pipeline that would have provided America with jobs, energy and hope, President Barack Obama betrayed his country, lied and then, just the other day, halfway reversed himself, once more fraudulently.

Not so long ago, this country was in a terrible energy fix. Thanks largely to China and India, world demand for oil was going up while supplies remained limited, meaning prices were soaring as dependence on production in the volatile Middle East grew. However, owing in part to new technology, we found vast new possibilities to obtain oil and gas in the United States, and our neighbors were discovering new resources, too.

Canadian tar sands, it turns out, hold 100 billion barrels of obtainable oil, which is to say, we have Saudi Arabia II sitting right next door. Stretching a pipeline from Canada to Texas refineries is no big deal in a country with 2 million miles of pipeline already. What’s more, there is good besides oil that would flow from it.

It would create thousands of jobs and experts note that a pipeline is far cheaper and safer than other modes of transportation, especially shipping it across the ocean.

The Keystone XL pipeline, in short, would assist in a bonanza of multi-billions, but some environmentalists were unhappy because this tar-sands oil has a lot of carbon dioxide in it, and, by their calculations, would contribute to global warming. There were answers to their concerns. One was that if we don’t use the oil, China will. China then gets all the advantages, and any increased global-warming risk would still be there.

Of course, in a regulatory system that allows no one to sneeze without prior investigations of earthquake dangers, we still had to quadruple-check everything, and so the State Department and 11 other agencies spent three years and endless scientific effort compiling eight volumes of evidence demonstrating there was nothing to worry about.

Obama had promised a decision by the end of last year, but then, on top of screams from environmental extremists, some Nebraskans complained that a physically impossible tainting of aquifer water might occur as the pipeline crossed their state. Obama was in a tough spot -- there was an election coming up and whatever decision he made would displease either environmental supporters or union supporters. He punted, saying the State Department was going to study a new path for the pipeline, and that this would take at least a year, by which time the election would be over. Political problem solved?

Not quite, because Republican senators said they would agree to a two-month payroll-tax decrease if Obama would move ahead with the decision, and Obama, eager to come back to another argument on a further 10-month extension of the payroll tax, said that compromise suited him fine. He got it, and we now have a pipeline decision in which he complains he was shoved into an arbitrary deadline for political purposes. That’s a lie. This man, who had once said he bowed to science, had snubbed his nose at science, skipping his original deadline for political purposes.

Because of the overly speedy process of more checking that would not be necessary with old routes, he said we could not be sure the pipeline was safe, another lie. He added we were meanwhile producing more natural gas, increasing our energy supplies without as much carbon-dioxide peril. That’s true, but that still leaves us with major energy deficiencies at present while the emissions reductions mean there’s less to worry about in any emissions increases from the tar-sands oil.

Suddenly, gas prices are up dramatically again, and Obama is in a political pickle. His Chevy Volt and Solyndra solutions are like putting out a forest fire with a squirt gun that doesn’t work. His record on denying drilling hither and yon, and a past, reported statement about not seeing oil as a solution to anything, hardly help the country, especially since he is thus sending oil markets signals to increase prices more. Increased production in our own land has happened despite him instead of because of him.

And now he is going to get out of the mess by promising half a pipeline that will accomplish zip without a northern part Nebraskans along with greenies particularly don’t want? If the American public is dumb enough to buy all that – and I don’t think so – we deserve this guy and the gas prices that come with him.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinio...rgy_lies_htZgwdjovVx2R93bTU4ZEK#ixzz1qBMf6ozG

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It is a partisan, maybe even a racial attack to judge in terms of outcomes instead of intentions.


A man should be measured by his intentions...

Obama has never been overly modest about his own powers. [during his campaign], he declared that history will mark his ascent to the presidency as the moment when “our planet began to heal” and “the rise of the oceans began to slow.”
When you anoint yourself King Canute, you mustn’t be surprised when your subjects expect you to command the tides.
Charles Krauthammer

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

“I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal."
President Obama, June 2008

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

“Look, I’m at the start of my administration. One nice thing about the situation I find myself in is that I will be held accountable. You know, I’ve got four years. A year from now I think people are going to see that we’re starting to make some progress. But there’s still going to be some pain out there. If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s going to be a one-term proposition.”
Barack Obama, The Today Show February 1, 2009.

"It's time for us to refocus and make sure that we understand that 'change we can believe in' was never going to be change overnight. Rather it's gonna be a slow, steady progression during which this aircraft carrier that we call United States of America slowly shifts in a direction that promises more opportunity. I’m going to need another term to finish the job.”
Barack Obama, Gotham Bar and Grill in the East Village (where donors forked over $25,800 each) December 1, 2011

 

[miles]

“

"It's time for us to refocus and make sure that we understand that 'change we can believe in' was never going to be change overnight. Rather it's gonna be a slow, steady progression during which this aircraft carrier that we call United States of America slowly shifts in a direction that promises more opportunity. I’m going to need another term to finish the job.”
Barack Obama, Gotham Bar and Grill in the East Village (where donors forked over $25,800 each) December 1, 2011

"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Senator Barack Hussein Obama, 2006

The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents - #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back -- $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic.
Barack Hussein Obama

 

[miles]

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Senator Barack Hussein Obama, 2006

The problem is, is that the way Bush has done it over the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion for the first 42 presidents - #43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome, so that we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back -- $30,000 for every man, woman and child. That's irresponsible. It's unpatriotic.
Barack Hussein Obama

I'd say the GOP campaign has enough Obama quotes to beat him in ten elections. Hopefully they have the smarts to use it.