Green Energy

[mercury14]

This country would be better off had the government not wasted taxpayer monies on subsidizing nascent industries.

Okay but China is subsidizing green industry and is more than willing to take a loss in the short-term on it. Is it in our country's best interest to throw up our hands and just allow China to dominate the future or energy? Because by the time green energy becomes cost-effective China will have years, possibly decades of a head start. That means we'll have zero market share.

Do you really think it's in our nation's best interest?

 

[mercury14]

If we were serious about green energy Obama would toss a battalion of brainiacs onto a campus...say...Chanute Air Force Base, lock them in, and unleash them to create honest to god energy forms that are plentiful and cheap and do the job.

The other thing is: Summarily execute any kid who quits school before graduation or majors in socialist sciences at college. Medicine, engineering, and hard sciences oughta be the choices for all.

Fucking intellectuals. People shouldn't be learnin' anything in college unless they learn how to make something I can touch!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Good. Then let's end all government interventions that are designed to 1) manipulate the price of oil or 2) Assist oil acquisition in any way, anywhere. That includes insanely stupid and unsafe drilling practices in places like the Arctic as well as military/geopolitical involvement in foreign countries for no reason other than oil.

After we do that, we may find that the so-called "alternative" sources are, in fact, considerably cheaper.

You would be wrong on that account.

Government cannot spend that which it has not first plundered...

... under the name of the state the citizens taken collectively are considered as a real being, having its own life, its own wealth, independently of the lives and the wealth of the citizens themselves; and then each addresses this fictitious being, some to obtain from it education, others employment, others credit, others food, etc., etc. Now the state can give nothing to the citizens that it has not first taken from them.
Frédéric Bastiat

Increased gains in private Capital would then not only provide us with cheaper carbon energy, but also viable, innovative green solutions unlike the ethanol boondoggle...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Okay but China is subsidizing green industry and is more than willing to take a loss in the short-term on it. Is it in our country's best interest to throw up our hands and just allow China to dominate the future or energy? Because by the time green energy becomes cost-effective China will have years, possibly decades of a head start. That means we'll have zero market share.

Do you really think it's in our nation's best interest?

Yes.

That frees us up to do other things that will benefit China, directly, or indirectly.

In this scenario, China becomes the loser just as we did in trying to corner the ethanol market.

You are engaging on one of Bastiat's favorite Sophisms to debunk.

There will never be zero market share...

 

[shoulderblade]

We need to prepare for that day in a way that doesn't increase energy prices by 50 or 100% domesitcally and which plunges many of our less affluent countrymen into immediate distress...not while we still have decades and decades of energy resources we can draw from in our own country.

In other words, we need a smart long term plan which includes greater harvesting of our natural resources now and a smart investment plan to develop viable alternatives over time.

Right. But even seeing the problem coming from far off you need government intervention to introduce replacement energy forms.

No alternate energy, as far as I know, is anywhere near really profitable vs oil/coal/natural gas at this point.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Fucking intellectuals. People shouldn't be learnin' anything in college unless they learn how to make something I can touch!

True.

 

[amicus]

Okay but China is subsidizing green industry and is more than willing to take a loss in the short-term on it. Is it in our country's best interest to throw up our hands and just allow China to dominate the future or energy? Because by the time green energy becomes cost-effective China will have years, possibly decades of a head start. That means we'll have zero market share.

Do you really think it's in our nation's best interest?

~~~

As you appear to be the most indoctrinated asshole willing to Post your ignorance on this Forum, I will extend my everlasting appreciation for the opportunities you offer me to illustrate the futility of your collectivist diatribe.

China is a Communist country; there are no human rights, period. . . more periods just for emphasis.

There is much to appreciate from your Hippy Generation, concerning conservation of resources and concern for Government pollution of the Environment; those aspects of your silly societal concerns actually benefit mankind in general.

What does not benefit anyone, is your blind alliegiance to social control by a centralized government, that, by your leave, can decide to eliminate you, as unnecessary for the good of the whole.

I use your assinine remarks to hone my ability to expose your fundamental mis-understanding of human nature and your refusal to honor and cherish the right of the individual to live his or her life as they choose, without your filthy hands determining their free choices.

Some wise man once observed that, "necessity is the Mother of all Inventions...", and the concept behind that simple statement is of value.

We will never exhaust petroleum resources on the Earth, even though they are finite. What will happen, naturally, in the free market place, is that they will become cost ineffective and free men will discover or invent other energy sources.

And you don't get it.

And I understand that you don't get it.

I also understand that you and your parasitic friends are willing to steal from productive people to finance your silly-assed environmental dreams of a pastoral society for your own personal agrandizement.

You are, without a doubt, the ultimate assholes of the Universe, and I will do my damndest to illustrate that with each and every of your stupid and malicious offerings.

Amicus

 

[koalabear]

Fucking intellectuals. People shouldn't be learnin' anything in college unless they learn how to make something I can touch!

They make plungers for you,MORON.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The niche for green energy is 911 emergencies and camping or isolated, wilderness sites.

 

[Peregrinator]

You would be wrong on that account.

Government cannot spend that which it has not first plundered...

... under the name of the state the citizens taken collectively are considered as a real being, having its own life, its own wealth, independently of the lives and the wealth of the citizens themselves; and then each addresses this fictitious being, some to obtain from it education, others employment, others credit, others food, etc., etc. Now the state can give nothing to the citizens that it has not first taken from them.
Frédéric Bastiat

Increased gains in private Capital would then not only provide us with cheaper carbon energy, but also viable, innovative green solutions unlike the ethanol boondoggle...

Which has nothing to do with what I posted, but it sure sounded good.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Which has nothing to do with what I posted, but it sure sounded good.

Then you did not read both and understand.

There is no way green is cheaper either with, or without, government intervention or it would be in place.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Then you did not read both and understand.

There is no way green is cheaper either with, or without, government intervention or it would be in place.

Amen.

On the otherhand I drive an old GEO (cuz its cheap) and most posters here drive 4000 pound SUVs.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I have always refused to put ethanol into my '94 S-10 and in return, it has rewarded me with 265,000+ reliable miles at 22-24 mpg...

 

[Dazzle1]

As a Green advocate it has to be rational

And rthat is the problem, Nuclear energy is a viable Green energy. But due to environmental lobby who are mostly ignorant (Al Gore) the U.S has not built a plant in many years.

 

[Ishmael]

In reality there is no such thing as "green power." Each and every one of the so called 'green technologies' merely moves, temporarily' the 'dirt' that is visible with the current methods of energy production behind the green curtain. The industrial equivalent of sweeping the dirt under the carpet. The dirt is still there, but the visitors won't notice.

The Obama et al vision of labor intensive jobs is just about right, unfortunately the only place that they can actually get away with this philosophy of 'job growth' is the public sector, and that ploy is catching up with them in a climate where so many in the private sector are out of work and suffering. Those unfortunates, and their still employed relatives and friends, sit around watching public sector employees wages rise and their benefits expanded. WI, IN, OH, and FL are the harbinger of things to come regarding public sector employees.

The manufacturing base that provided the jobs in the past are gone. They've been driven off-shore by labor costs, energy costs, and regulatory costs, the latter two of which are purposely designed to achieve that very goal. The labor cost issue is being driven more by unions than regulatory or energy, but even there it seems the current administration is trying to stack the deck in the unions favor (see any discussion on the Boeing-S. Car. issue). I like the textile workers as an example here. That industry in all but dead in the US and those workers who once had a job, albeit a low paying job, now have none at all. That particular industry segment disappeared virtually overnight. The "Laws of Unintended Consequences" are real bitches, and they tend to sneak up on you.

The notion that 'green energy' is going to create jobs is ludicrous in the extreme. A vision of Utopia in the minds of the elites who have become blinded to reality. The thought that somehow a labor intensive energy production sector, that by definition will raise energy costs, will somehow NOT accelerate the flight of industry off-shore is naive in the extreme. And those that actually believe the tripe coming out of the mouths of these politicians and evangelists will undoubtedly find themselves in the same condition as those former textile workers, sitting around wondering where it all went wrong, and then turning their ire on Levi-Strauss or (fill in the blank with any EVIL company) who moved their operations off shore to keep from going out of business altogether.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Amen bro and pass the plate...





Perg needs some change he can believe in...

 

[Ishmael]

The true believers in all this tripe attempt to co-mingle the sources of power in such a way that it seemingly has no impact on the consumer, commercial or residential, when it comes to writing the check. The first, and most obvious response is that in fact it does have an impact. And most folks haven't quite figured out yet exactly how much of an impact it has proportionately. (Here meaning how a contribution of .5% power from wind translates into a 10% increase in the power bill.)

I have a little intellectual test for those disciples of the green myth. Let's suppose you have 5 power feeds coming into your home, each with it's own meter. Between the meters and your power distribution panel you have a 5 position switch. One position allows you to select hydro-power at $.05/Kwh, the second is nuclear at $.07/Kwh, number 3 is coal at $.09/Kwh, 4 is wind at $.11/Kwh, and the last is solar at $.15/Kwh. Where do you set your switch?

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

They will tell you where they want to go set their neighbor's switch...




NIMBY!

 

[Ishmael]

They will tell you where they want to go set their neighbor's switch...




NIMBY!

That's pretty much what it boils down to.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

At least Perg tries to green up his life.



His error is in assuming that we don't when it's an actual viable alternative...

We've purchased solar generators for when (not if) the grid goes down in either a Joplin-style disaster or a Soviet-style disaster...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Every economic recovery I know of was based on 3 conditions: Unmet consumer demand, new technology thats popular and significantly more productive than what exists. And the new technology must be cheap.

In 1977 I bought a calculator to do my math problems faster than pencil and paper (I managed the engineering department of a construction company). In 1980 I bought a computer to do math calculations even faster, and to do construction estimates quickly. By 1983 my suppliers offered PC software to make all of my engineering work easy and quick.

In 1988 I used a PC to score and evaluate psychological tests.

In 1995 cell phones shelved pagers and business radios.

In 2011 their aint shit on the drawing board. Harvard now cranks out Fairy Studies majors and Ecological Justice experts.

 

[Ishmael]

At least Perg tries to green up his life.



His error is in assuming that we don't when it's an actual viable alternative...

We've purchased solar generators for when (not if) the grid goes down in either a Joplin-style disaster or a Soviet-style disaster...

I saw that recent post of his. The 'all or nothing' alternative. He assumes that just because we don't want to shove Brussel Sprouts down our neighbors throat that we don't eat them ourselves. Too many people with too much time on their hands trying to lecture everyone else on how they should live their lives. Trust Fund babies can be a real pain in the ass.

Ishmael

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I saw that recent post of his. The 'all or nothing' alternative. He assumes that just because we don't want to shove Brussel Sprouts down our neighbors throat that we eat them ourselves. Too many people with too much time on their hands trying to lecture everyone else on how they should live their lives. Trust Fund babies can be a real pain in the ass.

Ishmael

I already put $5 in the plate...



"It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
CS Lewis

 

[trysail]

'BP Solar' has a big factory/R&D facility not far from me. They must have some inside info...

Solarex has been in business in Frederick (Maryland) since at least 1977. Several of my schoolboy acquaintances went to work there in the late '70s. According to wikipedia, it was acquired by Amoco in 1983 ( Amoco was bought by BP in the late '90s ).

The Frederick facility will close this year.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP_Solar

 

[JohnnySavage]

Solarex has been in business in Frederick (Maryland) since at least 1977. Several of my schoolboy acquaintances went to work there in the late '70s. According to wikipedia, it was acquired by Amoco in 1983 ( Amoco was bought by BP in the late '90s ).

The Frederick facility will close this year.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP_Solar

That's the facility I was talking about. I don't know anything about it, other than driving past it on my way to Deep Creek Lake.