Green Energy

RightField

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Are the "green" jobs policies being advocated by the Obama administration a pure and noble pursuit or a perverse twisting of a good concept into another example of "Chicago" politics designed to decieve good citizens with lofty ideals who's real goal is tawdry backroom dealmaking to enrich friends.



Behind the ‘Green Jobs’ Curtain: Economic Fallacies and Counterfacts

by Nick Sibilla and Todd Wynn
October 6, 2011

“The art of economics consists in looking not merely at the immediate but at the longer effects of any act or policy; it consists in tracing the consequences of that policy not merely for one group but for all groups.”

- Henry Hazlitt, “The Lesson,” Economics in One Lesson. (1946, et seq.)

Solyndra’s impending liquidation, replete with 1,100 layoffs and U.S. taxpayer liabilities in excess of a half billion dollars, has put so-called green jobs initiative of the Obama Administration in negative light.

But make no mistake: recent loan guarantees from the U.S. Department of Energy to new solar projects to beat a September 31st funding cutoff is business-as-usual as the foes of oil, gas, and coal desperately seek business traction for an uneconomic energy.

From Climate Alarmism to ‘Green’ Jobs

With unemployment on the rise and new jobs scarce, politicians are keen to create employment, at least the visible kind that they can sum up for the public. And so yesteryear’s talk about addressing global warming (remember cap-and-trade?) has taken the back seat to policies geared towards restarting the sluggish economy.

Indeed, more Americans have grown skeptical about potential threats posed by climate change. According to a recent Pew Research poll, fewer Americans believe that global warming is a real threat than they did five years ago. A similar poll found that the top two priorities for Americans were the economy and jobs, while global warming ranked dead last.

So now, the sales pitch for forced energy transformation revolves around catch phrases such as the “renewable energy economy,” “green jobs,” and “leading the world in clean energy technologies.” In short, environmental policies have been rebranded as job creators.

What is a ‘Green’ Job?

Our report, The Dirty Secret Behind Clean Jobs, reveals numerous flaws with this approach. The definition of “green jobs” is vague; green job subsidies are based on flawed economic principles; and assumptions for job growth are inaccurate or downright false.

One is the shifting definition of what is a ‘green’ job. Is a green job a new job that has been created by a new environmental initiative? Or when an existing job has been made more environmentally friendly? Maybe both?

And what exactly is ‘green’ and not ‘green’? Often this term itself is based on dubious assumptions about economics, environmental impacts, etc. Indeed, some green initiatives have turned out to be more damaging to the environment than the status quo.

For example, ethanol is seen as a renewable fuel; and thus, those involved in its manufacture have green jobs. But according to a recent report published by the EPA, refining ethanol can actually emit more greenhouse gases than gasoline. Green jobs are not always green.

Despite the arcane wordplay and various definitions, environmental organizations and policy makers have claimed that the U.S. will see significant increases in green jobs. The media will often cite studies showing that green jobs have grown substantially and the rate of growth has outpaced other sectors of the economy.

Unfortunately for green job advocates, the low base numbers for green jobs means that percentage-wise, green job growth will seem impressive. But in absolute terms the economy may have added only a few jobs in this loosely defined labor sector. Furthermore, some of this growth in green job creation might not even be new jobs.

Many of these green jobs are simply jobs shifted from other sectors, or current employees with new green responsibilities. Denmark, a pioneer in wind energy, demonstrates the prevalence of such shifting. CEPOS, an independent Danish think tank, determined that approximately 28,000 people in the country were employed in the wind industry, but only one in 10 was a new job. In other words, 90% of these green jobs were simply positions shifted from one industry to another. This is hardly a recipe for growth.

But truly a “clean/green job” turns out to be just another term for big government. According to The Brookings Institution, the industry of “regulation and compliance” (i.e., government employees) was the fourth largest source of clean jobs in the United States. Surprisingly, the top sector for clean jobs was not installing sleek new solar panels or manufacturing electric cars, but “waste management and treatment” (386,000 jobs).

In other words, trash collectors. Rounding out the rest of the top four were “mass public transit” (350,000 jobs), conservation (315,000), and “regulation and compliance,” i.e., government employees (141,000).Should the 21st Century economy really depend on hiring more trash collectors, bus drivers, and bureaucrats?

Invisible Job Losses–Enter Economics

Henry Hazlitt in Economics in One Lesson explained how resources spent in one direction cannot be used in another, and how government jobs ipso facto crowds out private employment–and leaves everyone poorer. As he wrote:


It is obvious in the case of a subsidy that the taxpayers must lose precisely as much as the X industry gains. It should be equally clear that, as a consequence, other industries must lose what the X industry gains. They must pay part of the taxes that are used to support the X industry. And consumers, because they are taxed to support the X industry, will have that much less income left with which to buy other things. The result must be that other industries on the average must be smaller than otherwise in order that the X industry may be larger.

But the result of this subsidy is not merely that there has been a transfer of wealth or income, or that other industries have shrunk in the aggregate as much as the X industry has expanded. The result is also (and this is where the net loss comes in to the nation considered as a unit) that capital and labor are driven out of industries in which they are more efficiently employed to be diverted to an industry in which they are less efficiently employed. Less wealth is created. The average standard of living is lowered compared with what it would have been.

Green job estimates do not account for job losses in other sectors. Unfortunately for the taxpayer, many reports supportive of green job creation schemes do not include the number of job losses. Since using green power may displace the use of coal, oil, and other “dirty” fuels, green jobs will also displace those currently working in the fossil fuel industry. In other words, one must take into account the opportunity cost of creating a green job through government intervention.

Any increase in green jobs through government intervention is likely to have a negative effect on existing jobs in a number of ways. First, there will be job losses resulting from the crowding out of less expensive, conventional forms of energy, i.e., replacing a coal plant with a wind farm.

Next, there will be job losses in energy intensive sectors. As conventional forms of energy are replaced by more expensive, less reliable forms such as wind power, higher energy prices will increase the cost of doing business, thereby making energy-intensive U.S. companies less competitive. Spain, a pioneer in renewable energy before the recession, is a sobering example. A recent Spanish economic analysis revealed that for every green job created, more than two jobs were lost.

More Cost, More Jobs: A Perversion

Many claim the green power industry is much more labor-intensive than the fossil fuel industry. Green jobs advocates, like former Green Jobs czar Van Jones, praise wind and solar for needing to employ more people than fossil fuels. Indeed, according to President Obama, businesses that lack labor-intensity are responsible for the nation’s high unemployment:


There are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers. You see it when you go to a bank and you use an ATM, you don’t go to a bank teller, or you go to the airport and you’re using a kiosk instead of checking in at the gate.

In other words, President Obama has fallen for the labor intensity fallacy: the idea that businesses must employ many people to provide jobs.

However, this is not a characteristic of a prosperous economy. It is a sign of inefficiency. If green industries are praised for their labor intensity, then why not mandate wind turbines, solar panels and other green technologies to be made of shoddy materials? This would ensure plenty of jobs manufacturing, replacing, and maintaining inferior equipment. Better yet, pay workers to physically turn the wind turbines when the wind stops blowing.

Can you imagine the ridiculousness of a series of pullies and ropes with thousands of previously unemployed Americans working to create “wind” energy? This would create thousands of jobs, but what is overlooked by misinformed politicians is the actually productive activities these workers could be engaged in instead of using physical labor to create a negligible amount of energy.

In the end, environmentalists should not base their calls to action on specious claims of job creation and policy makers should be wary of attempting to jumpstart the economy with flawed initiatives. As a way to end unemployment, creating new green job schemes and subsidizing green companies is not the answer. The idea of promoting green jobs is plagued with vague definitions, empty promises, and ignorance of basic economic principles.

Conclusion

Clean jobs have a dirty secret: They will not put Americans back to work. And they leave Americans as consumers and taxpayers poorer. Timeless economics and current facts (think Solyndra) reach the same verdict.
 
I'm sorry Right, I will read this I promise, but I got as far as "September 31st cutoff" and had to ask. Really?? He really said September 31st?? REALLY???
 
Green energy to Oblamer means a campaign donation and campaign dinner at every place he stopped.
 
People who attack the green economy/industry/energy/whatever, always make one of two arguments to support their advocacy of clinging to 19th century technology: Green isn't green, it has a carbon foot print; or, Green couldn't survive without government help.

Both arguments are idiotic and ignore the simple fact that one day, oil will be gone. That's a fact, not a political position. "Green" energy can replace some of the loss, but what else is there? The anti-greenies want to throw Green out as well. How fucking stupid is that? Is some alien going to come to Earth, wave his magic wand and give us another 1000 years of oil?

Yes, I said it... Oil is a finite resource. Shocking, ain't it?
 
This country would be better off had the government not wasted taxpayer monies on subsidizing nascent industries.
 
People who attack the green economy/industry/energy/whatever, always make one of two arguments to support their advocacy of clinging to 19th century technology: Green isn't green, it has a carbon foot print; or, Green couldn't survive without government help.

Both arguments are idiotic and ignore the simple fact that one day, oil will be gone. That's a fact, not a political position. "Green" energy can replace some of the loss, but what else is there? The anti-greenies want to throw Green out as well. How fucking stupid is that? Is some alien going to come to Earth, wave his magic wand and give us another 1000 years of oil?

Yes, I said it... Oil is a finite resource. Shocking, ain't it?

Green is great ask Spain.
 
Not the point.

I know the point


The point is

$$$ will ALWAYS go to the most productive avenue (over time)

Overnment $$$ usually goes to BLACK HOLES...........

is a BLACK hole a RACIST hole?

I dunno, just AXIN..........

I read some NIGGER say it was

Just as BLACK FRIDAY is a RACIST Friday

I know

ELIMINATE NIGGERS, we ELIMINATE RACISM
 
I'm sorry Right, I will read this I promise, but I got as far as "September 31st cutoff" and had to ask. Really?? He really said September 31st?? REALLY???

I made this thread so we can have more than a sound-bite discussion. I'm not sure, it's a reference and I haven't vetted the reference, I have no reason to doubt it.
 
People who attack the green economy/industry/energy/whatever, always make one of two arguments to support their advocacy of clinging to 19th century technology: Green isn't green, it has a carbon foot print; or, Green couldn't survive without government help.

Both arguments are idiotic and ignore the simple fact that one day, oil will be gone. That's a fact, not a political position. "Green" energy can replace some of the loss, but what else is there? The anti-greenies want to throw Green out as well. How fucking stupid is that? Is some alien going to come to Earth, wave his magic wand and give us another 1000 years of oil?

Yes, I said it... Oil is a finite resource. Shocking, ain't it?

I agree completely. Oil is a finite resource and we need a considered, careful, smart approach for preparing for that day when oil supplies start declinging. Investing in Solyndra does not qualify as a viable approach, nor is throwing money at the problem in the absence of a sensible plan...it's a waste of precious resources (and they now want to take more out of my pocket so they can pay for that waste and enrichment of their friends).

We have a number of alternative energy initiatives in work and we ought to keep them going and maybe start expanding them when the technology starts showing legitimate promise. The investment should be done in a way similar to how DARPA and IARPA provide evaluation, guidence and investment with careful protection of our taxpayer dollars as opposed to the political grandstanding and staggering waste of Solyndra and the other politically motivated/friend enriching efforts that have become so visible lately (were hidden for a long time).

We need to prepare for that day in a way that doesn't increase energy prices by 50 or 100% domesitcally and which plunges many of our less affluent countrymen into immediate distress...not while we still have decades and decades of energy resources we can draw from in our own country.

In other words, we need a smart long term plan which includes greater harvesting of our natural resources now and a smart investment plan to develop viable alternatives over time.
 
I've been saying this for a long time in shorter version...

;) ;)

We don’t prevent pollution, we export it (along with our jobs).
A_J, the Stupid
 
People who attack the green economy/industry/energy/whatever, always make one of two arguments to support their advocacy of clinging to 19th century technology: Green isn't green, it has a carbon foot print; or, Green couldn't survive without government help.

Both arguments are idiotic and ignore the simple fact that one day, oil will be gone. That's a fact, not a political position. "Green" energy can replace some of the loss, but what else is there? The anti-greenies want to throw Green out as well. How fucking stupid is that? Is some alien going to come to Earth, wave his magic wand and give us another 1000 years of oil?

Yes, I said it... Oil is a finite resource. Shocking, ain't it?

Straw man argument.

Based on the with me or against me fallacy.

No one objects to the growth of green. A lot of us object to government interventionalism...
 
If we were serious about green energy Obama would toss a battalion of brainiacs onto a campus...say...Chanute Air Force Base, lock them in, and unleash them to create honest to god energy forms that are plentiful and cheap and do the job.

The other thing is: Summarily execute any kid who quits school before graduation or majors in socialist sciences at college. Medicine, engineering, and hard sciences oughta be the choices for all.
 
Straw man argument.

Based on the with me or against me fallacy.

No one objects to the growth of green. A lot of us object to government interventionalism...

Good. Then let's end all government interventions that are designed to 1) manipulate the price of oil or 2) Assist oil acquisition in any way, anywhere. That includes insanely stupid and unsafe drilling practices in places like the Arctic as well as military/geopolitical involvement in foreign countries for no reason other than oil.

After we do that, we may find that the so-called "alternative" sources are, in fact, considerably cheaper.
 
Good. Then let's end all government interventions that are designed to 1) manipulate the price of oil or 2) Assist oil acquisition in any way, anywhere. That includes insanely stupid and unsafe drilling practices in places like the Arctic as well as military/geopolitical involvement in foreign countries for no reason other than oil.

After we do that, we may find that the so-called "alternative" sources are, in fact, considerably cheaper.

...or sweetheart deals for drilling on public lands.
 
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