Greedily seeking constructive criticism.

[ellynei]

I noticed there are very few, new, seeking constructive criticism, posts just now. So I figured this would be a good time for me to jump in and be greedy.

A good while back I requested feedback good and bad, for Majgen Ch. 001 (that IS a good while back, chapter 10 of it is up now.) I got some great feedback back then, that enabled me to improve the chapter immensely. The originally posted version was also subsequently seen to by two people editorially, (and a third gave me wonderful suggestions on a thread were I requested an editor).

The third version of Ch. 001 is up now, (thank you so much for the -EDITED function literotica). The third version of Ch. 001 has not been seen editorially so now, with the immense greed of an obsessed person, I ask:

Nit-pick it please.
Does it still lack structure? If so please give me specific examples.
Is there still a lack of immediacy? If so please give me specific examples.
Are there other problems? Which? Any suggestions on how to fix those?

A very skilled writer, suggested that I should cut (the original Ch. 001) to half word size. I fear my horrid personality has cut me off from further advice from that wonderful source, however. (That was sincerety btw not sarcasm.) Maybe someone who has not yet grown tired of my obnoxious nature could further that advice by telling me what ought to be cut?

Right here it is:

Ch. 001

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=363364

Sincerely

The greedy and obnoxious

Ellynei

 

[Guest]

Wow-- that is one substantial rewrite, ellynei! And a much-improved chapter, in my estimation; I was one of those who blathered on in response to your original request for feedback.

Structurally, this chapter is much improved; better hook and better flow. I recommended shortening it by 20-30%; I can't be sure but I think you've gone beyond that. Whatever, it works.

Thanks for dealing with the "whites" issue, btw.

Two quibbles (and they're just that; the chapter stands on its own merits as written): you have a fair number of typos in this draft although nothing egregious jumped out at me, and I still find some of your exposition (as in your description of the "wallet" and its functions) to be a bit "clunky."

But that's just me.

And as ALL your chapters in this series proudly sport red H's, your readers are obviously quite pleased.

Congratulations!

 

[ellynei]

(and a third gave me wonderful suggestions on a thread were I requested an editor).

That was you GnomeDePlume I couldn't have improved the chapter like I did without your comments, I am still immense grateful for them.

And thank YOU for making me clearly aware of the 'white' issue

Eeek typos, crap, shit, bugger, aaaaargh. EVIL GRIEF. I guess I'll find them eventually Thanks for telling me I still got work to do on finding typos though better to know, so can search and remedy, than to not know and do nothing

Yes I remember well you told me the 20-30%, a close english-speaking friend actually demonstrated to me some of my first paragraphs could shrink by 20-30% simply by rephrasing yet keeping the exact same content. I was unable to be that efficient when trying to do that myself through the rest of the chapter, my english skills are not THAT good - yet.

In reality even though the beginning has shrunk by 20-30% the full chapter has not shrunk much in word size, but all exposition has been moved to its proper context, (as best I could so far), and most of it severely rephrased. I did suspect that some of the comments regarding too many words, might come from the fact that lots of this stuff was badly placed and phrased (= lots of sentences looked like senseless, needless rubbish, in earlier versions,) but I wasn't sure.

I can't tell you what a big relief it is, lots of weight of my shoulders, that you say it worked. I was so worried when the end result turned out to not be many words less.

I'll make sure to remember clunky and wallet part, to keep it in the back of my head and chew on thoroughly while reading the wallet part again, to see if I can see it - then, and if so: Fix it. (And see if I can figure out which other parts might be clunky too.)

Thank you yet again

 

[The_Fractal_King]

The writing is very solid but it takes a long time getting to the action (your main characters interacting). Cutting the beginning down by a few paragraphs would be a good way to pull the reader in. You've expressed that you don't want to lose the backstory but do want to solidify Majgen's image for the reader so I would advise slicing down the size of some descriptions. I'll do my best to give a sample edit.


"Design of lecture style classrooms was intended to increase focus on lecturers, and decrease focus on surroundings. Although white was efficient for this, the design balance required to avoid obstructive effects on concentration, was hard to attain with exclusive use of white. This school however, the Mentariata, had been designed and decorated only by people who were exceedingly skilled in their field. The Mentariata could afford the best."

The messages here seem to be: she's in a lecture hall, it's white, Mentarion's are efficient and controling, the Mentariata is wealthy.

"Lecture halls were intended to place all focus on the lecturers. Although white was efficient for this it usually became distracting in its own right. But this school, the Mentariata, hired only the best designers to balance the color."


Keep in mind that prefer comics to books because I can't stand descriptions of what things look like, so this might be best taken with a grain of salt.

Besides you're posting in Non-Erotic and every single chapter has an H tag. What do you want from us?
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k10/DocZaius/scanners9pv.gif

 

[ellynei]

What do you want from us?

I want to learn which parts of my writing deters, annoys, detracts, confuses. I want to learn to write well. So what I want is for you to tell me such things.

And you did.

Thank you for the very good example, I gotta especially say that:

Although white was efficient for this, the design balance required to avoid obstructive effects on concentration, was hard to attain with exclusive use of white.

rewritten to:

Although white was efficient for this it usually became distracting in its own right.

Is bloody brilliant!

Thank you for the constructive criticism. This was really nice of you.

 

[Guest]

I'll make sure to remember clunky and wallet part, to keep it in the back of my head and chew on thoroughly while reading the wallet part again, to see if I can see it - then, and if so: Fix it. (And see if I can figure out which other parts might be clunky too.)

Well, here's one example. See if you like it.

Baglian took out his wallet and placed it on the table for unfolding. Like most mentarions he always kept his wallet in a wrist pocket on the underside of his arm, in the inner sleeve. The double sleeves of mentarion uniforms made them particularly suited for keeping wallets in wrist pockets.

The inner sleeve was skin tight making its wallet-pockets more useful, in loose sleeves pockets would only be useful to store extremely small and light-weighted things. Also the outer sleeve hid the undecorative lump formed by a filled pocket from plain view.

"Wallet five crimson unfold horizontal shape five."

The wallet unfolded itself. When Baglian had first placed it on the table it had been a small black rod, a bit thinner than his little finger and half as long as his hand from wrist to tip of index finger. Once it had attained what Baglian called 'shape five' in his personalised settings, it had become a flat screen lying horizontally on the table.

Becomes something like this:

Like most mentarions, Baglian always kept his wallet in a wrist pocket on the underside of his arm; the skin-tight inner sleeve of mentarion uniforms was particularly suited for this use. The looser outer sleeve, useful only to store extremely small and light-weight objects, hid the undecorative lump formed by the phone.

As Baglian placed his wallet on the table it was a small black rod, a bit thinner than his little finger and half as long as his hand from wrist to tip of index finger.

"Wallet five crimson unfold horizontal shape five."

The wallet unfolded itself, becoming a flat screen lying horizontally on the table--what Baglian called 'shape five' in his personalised settings.


Not saying that's the end-all and be-all, but it's an example of how exposition can flow more smoothly and succintly.

ellynei, do I understand from your replies to FK and to me that English is not your native language? If so, you should be enormously proud of what you're accomplishing. Hell, you should be enormously proud anyway!

 

[ellynei]

Thank you yet again GnomeDePlume, that was a really great example too.

Yes, english is not my native language -- I'm danish -- but that doesn't mean I get to lay back and say 'to heck with bad sentences!' I chose to write in english, so I gotta bloody learn.

I will -- eventually. The question is simply: How long will it take? and how many people will I drive nuts with questions along the way?

 

[litchipking]

Hey Elly,

I emailed you my thoughts on this chapter. Hope they are helpful.

I wanted to post here as well because it gives me the opportunity to publically thank you for all you have done for so many writers on this site. There are several regulars who lend of their time and talents to help us aspiring writers and you are among the best.

Writers, if you have ever been a recipient of help, advice, critique or praise from ellynei then you should be jumping on this chance to pay her back. I know that her patience and insight have been invaluable to me in my short time here and I will be eternally grateful for her kindness.

Thank you, Elly for sharing your skills as both a reader and a writer. My life is richer for meeting you.

Chip

 

[ellynei]

Chip they were very helpful -- very.

I am just as aspiring as the writers whose writings I comment on. In fact, in many cases, I am quite inferior in skill to the authors whose work I comment on.

I feel in debt to people who has aided me here on lit too.

When I first came a lit author 'ewebie' helped me with the hopeless grammar on my very first writing here. If this is the time for public thanks I want to say. Thank you ewebie, you are a star, your generous aid got me started and now I am so happily writing away. I got tons to learn yet, but am happy on the journey.

And thank you elfin odalisque for back when gave the very specific advice on what would be a good improvement for 'roleplays' opened my eyes for the importance 'pulling in value' in a story. And JJ too. I never did get back to you for further advice on roleplays elle, was planning to but got 'roleplays'-editing fatigue.

And back on roleplays Fractal king got me on the right track with not placing multiple dialogues in one paragraph, thanks for that too.

And... Oh dear, I could keep this up all night, there are so many people who has aided. So much wonderful help.

And I hope there will be more in the future too.


Not everyone is happy about my attempts to help, I am rather clumsy... But I keep trying, cause some are happy about it, some it helps.

I owe it to the ones who helped me and got nothing in return, to help others without expecting return.

#

Of course, since I'm not all that altruistic I sometimes strike Quid Pro Quo-deals (ye know, 'Silence of the Lambs'-style.

"Quid Pro Quo, Clarissse, Quid Pro Quo."

Yes, that's how evil and selfish I am

Some of the people who went:

"Sure, Quid Pro Quo, Dude, sweet deal."

Didn't hehe.

Apart from those, noone owes me