Grammarly... is it wrong?

[mynameisben]

If you have to ask, it's probably the fuck wrong.


Ben

 

[XerXesXu]

No educated person writes this way. People do speak this way sometimes, and when they do they reveal that they are uneducated. It's an appropriate construction in a story (1) in dialogue, revealing that the speaker probably is an uneducated person, and (2) in narrative, to reveal that the narrator is uneducated.

Grammar is not a matter of right and wrong, black and white. It's a complex of conventions, to enable and enhance communication, between the writer and the reader, and the speaker and the listener. The pronoun "me" is objective case, rather than subjective case. No educated, knowledgeable writer uses it as a subject in narrative, unless for a specific purpose.

I've read your post with care. Does it surprise you, that the content reveals to me, that you are uneducated?

 

[Ezeerider]

Apparently you don't want to respond to my post. Fine with me. Just want others reading the board to realize that you are off the wall.

Obviously, the old XXX is neither a logician or a writer. You simply can't attempt to support your "arguments" with references to the writing of other unspecified - and apparently unqualified persons you've found submitting on this site (Jesus, I've seen some truly atrocious writing here), or with the statement of some jock or another.

The nature of so many of the statements made by this person regarding the rules and very nature of the game, and the craft itself, serve to prove that while XXX may be many things, a writer ain't one of 'em.

Argument, as we see, is futile here, since reason remains unrecognized.

Just another example of a poor, benighted soul charging into a battle of wits unarmed.

It was fun for a while, but ... hey, look, a squirrel!

 

[KeithD]

I've read your post with care. Does it surprise you, that the content reveals to me, that you are uneducated?

I don't think you're surprising anyone--yet again.

 

[XerXesXu]

No educated person writes this way. People do speak this way sometimes, and when they do they reveal that they are uneducated.

Grammar is not a matter of right and wrong, black and white. It's a complex of conventions, to enable and enhance communication, between the writer and the reader, and the speaker and the listener. The pronoun "me" is objective case, rather than subjective case. No educated, knowledgeable writer uses it as a subject in narrative, unless for a specific purpose.

"People do speak this way sometimes, and when they do they reveal that they are uneducated. "

Emma has just matriculated with A* in Pure Maths, A* in Applied Maths and an A in Economics. She's not as uneducated as many. Perhaps, not as uneducated as you.

"No educated, knowledgeable writer uses it as a subject in narrative, unless for a specific purpose."

The evidence should tell you that the converse is true. The contributing authors to Lit are not uneducated. I found this usage quite quickly, twice, when I starting reading stories in the NEW list. It's a common usage EXCEPT when people are trying to produce writing FOR a specific purpose. That purpose is to satisfy the Stlye (including Grammatical Style) of a specific publisher.

 

[XerXesXu]

Obviously, the old XXX is neither a logician or a writer. You simply can't attempt to support your "arguments" with references to the writing of other unspecified - and apparently unqualified persons you've found submitting on this site (Jesus, I've seen some truly atrocious writing here), or with the statement of some jock or another.

The nature of so many of the statements made by this person regarding the rules and very nature of the game, and the craft itself, serve to prove that while XXX may be many things, a writer ain't one of 'em.

Argument, as we see, is futile here, since reason remains unrecognized.

Just another example of a poor, benighted soul charging into a battle of wits unarmed.

It was fun for a while, but ... hey, look, a squirrel!

I don't ask for thanks, but I see that just by annoying you I've improved your writing skills greatly.

 

[XerXesXu]

So my solution is this:

"On your knees, Bitch! Start sucking."

The angry tenor of the dialogue seems to demand an emphasis on Bitch. Plus I believe as a direct address it should be capitalized. Like "On your knees, Susan! Start sucking." Sorry, you wouldn't have known about the tenor of the dialogue preceding it. My bad.

I like that too. It's the product of a discussion about comma placement, but it's unleashed a creative and aesthetic approach to what one writes down. What did Grammarly suggest? What would the Chicago Guide suggest?

 

[ElectricBlue]

In a BDSM relationship, Bitch might be her name. In a cuckolding one, Bitch might be his name! Just saying!

Certainly, but if so, it would have to established before the line, otherwise it reads as an unnecessary capital letter.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you have to ask, it's probably the fuck wrong.

Ben

I like your concise logic, Ben. Simple but accurate .

 

[XerXesXu]

Please provide some authority that holds that construction ("me" first) as grammatical. It isn't. I use it to identify the undereducated--and, yes, there are a whole lot of undereducated folks walking about. There aren't many eighteen-year-old women pro tennis players who are English grammar authorities.

Do you use that construction in your writing?

How can I have overlooked you?

The authority is in the evidence, not in the book. Remember the Enlightenment, Empiricism versus Authority etc. Do you know who won?

Whatever you say, Emma is the authority. The speech of every native speaker is an authority on the Grammar of their native language, or they wouldn’t be able to speak it.

You can’t argue from an ought to an is. Conversely, you can’t argue from an oughtn’t to an isn’t. That’s an appeal to authority.

A little thought experiment.

Imagine a large room, it’s full of people, and they're all undereducated.

Imagine you’re in the room.

Do you think, anyone, would point at you, and say, “This guy doesn’t belong here?”

No, they wouldn’t, and that’s because you’re an Authoritarian. You appeal to your Bible, but Linguistics is an empirical science.


“Do you use that construction in your writing?”


In dialogue – I never have, but I would, without qualm, if it was the grammar of the character. That’s uncontroversial, I hope.

I narrate in 3rd person omniscient, there is no narrative 'me'. If I ever used 1st person I would, if it was congruent with the voice of the narrator.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've read your post with care. Does it surprise you, that the content reveals to me, that you are uneducated?

It would not surprise me, based on your previous comments, that you would come to this conclusion. But you would be wrong.

 

[gordo12]

I like that too. It's the product of a discussion about comma placement, but it's unleashed a creative and aesthetic approach to what one writes down. What did Grammarly suggest? What would the Chicago Guide suggest?

"On your knees, Bitch! Start sucking."

"On your knees, BITCH! Start sucking."

Grammarly and Word accepted both versions.

Edited to make it clearer.

 

[MillieDynamite]

"On your knees, Bitch! Start sucking."

"On your knees, BITCH! Start sucking."

Grammarly and Word accepted both versions.

Edited to make it clearer.

But did, BITCH, accept it, kneel, and start sucking?

 

[XerXesXu]

It would not surprise me, based on your previous comments, that you would come to this conclusion. But you would be wrong.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

[XerXesXu]

"On your knees, Bitch! Start sucking."

"On your knees, BITCH! Start sucking."

Grammarly and Word accepted both versions.

Edited to make it clearer.

But Grammarly didn't suggest you change anything in your original wording. Word only suggested you delete the coma.

Would you have changed anything if Word had accepted your original text, as it did in my version?

 

[KeithD]

Whatever you say, Emma is the authority.

No, what ever ridiculous thing you post (and you do that a lot), Emma, the math and economic whiz, is not an authority on English grammar. Don't be this stupid. Using the "me and Tulula" construction is colloquial--by those who are undereducated.

And, sure, as SD noted, I'd use the construction in dialogue of a character I wanted to show as undereducated. It would be a clear indication of undereducation. I would use it precisely because it would show the character was undereducated in English grammar.

 

[XerXesXu]

No, what ever ridiculous thing you post (and you do that a lot), Emma, the math and economic whiz, is not an authority on English grammar. Don't be this stupid. Using the "me and Tulula" construction is colloquial--by those who are undereducated.

And, sure, as SD noted, I'd use the construction in dialogue of a character I wanted to show as undereducated. It would be a clear indication of undereducation. I would use it precisely because it would show the character was undereducated in English grammar.

The challenge remains open. You show me yours and I'll show you mine.

What are your credentials in linguistics?

You'll note that Gordo12 has arrived at strong, vivid, correctly punctuated wording in response to his query. What contribution did the dross you posted make to that?

Your education is inverse to your conceit.

You cling to your Bible, holding it before you, sprinkling nonsense from your aspergillum, uttering words of exorcism in the belief that the God of your bible will rescue you from your discomfort. It won't. An educated person would know better.

 

[gordo12]

But Grammarly didn't suggest you change anything in your original wording. Word only suggested you delete the coma.

Would you have changed anything if Word had accepted your original text, as it did in my version?

No, I originally had the comma there myself. Grammarly had no problem with it. But Word (before Grammarly was open) flagged it as an error. That's what started me asking because I believed it wasn't.

But I prefer what I've arrived at with the help here.

Thanks to all!

 

[SimonDoom]

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

I am no lady.

 

[UtilityCurve]

The speech of every native speaker is an authority on the Grammar of their native language, or they wouldn’t be able to speak it.

An "authority” (probably more accurately a data point, authoritative to that extent), but not the "authority"--that requires followers (as you correctly observe, grammar is descriptive [majoritarian perhaps], not prescriptive, but it is also true that at any moment I in time it is used prescriptively so as to provide a guide to making oneself understood most readily by the greatest number).

A toddler's speech, his native use of his language, is a clear and universally accepted example of speech which may be comprehensible but not admirable.

If the use of the subjective "me" rather than the objective "I" causes the majority of listeners to pause and (effectvely) translate, the use of "me" is simply incorrect within the context of grammar, which exists to facilitate communication not to require translation.

 

[gordo12]

I note that the question of Grammarly vs Hemmingway came up.

I stopped using the free version of Hemmingway some time ago. The reason was simple. It has a default font in it. When you copy and paste your work in, it's switched to that font. When you paste it back, you now have two sets of fonts.

It also has a default spacing in it, and pasting back, brings that problem with it too.

Libre seemed to struggle with the issue when you tried to change it back.

Grammarly never gave me that problem. And yes, the professional version with its increased number of suggestions is well worth it. I don't agree with all, but I can tell you it's most. It does struggle with things like in to vs into and hyphens. (even in this sentence, it's trying to join in to and now its suggestion is that to, be changed to too)

So there are problems with it. But I will also say that my writing went up several levels once I started using it. It makes me rethink clunky sentences. It catches spelling errors and all the missing commas that I so like to ignore. Despite the problems with it, I will be renewing mine shortly.

 

[SimonDoom]

I note that the question of Grammarly vs Hemmingway came up.

Grammarly, or Hemmingway, or whatever, should be used as a tool, not an authority.

They're useful for catching things you might miss, or might mistakenly type, as you write.

There's no substitute for learning the rules of grammar yourself. If you are an author who is not confident about your knowledge of grammar, take a little time and read 10 how to articles here at Literotica. Absorb the information. It will be helpful. There's a ton of helpful information at this site if you just look for it.

Grammarly, or MS Word's reviewing tools, which I use, don't tell me anything I don't already know. But they help me catch things I miss as I write because my fingers do weird things when they hit the keyboard.

If you are an American fiction writer and you want an authority, I strongly recommend the Chicago Manual of Style, and I also recommend Benjamin Dreyer's Dreyer's English. He's the chief copy editor of Random House. You cannot be more of an authority on fiction editing than that.

 

[gordo12]

But did, BITCH, accept it, kneel, and start sucking?

The only woman around, Millie dear, is my wife. Were I to tell her THAT, I'm sure her black belt years would kick in and kick me!

I'm a wuss where pain is concerned.

 

[gordo12]

Grammarly, or Hemmingway, or whatever, should be used as a tool, not an authority.

They're useful for catching things you might miss, or might mistakenly type, as you write.

There's no substitute for learning the rules of grammar yourself. If you are an author who is not confident about your knowledge of grammar, take a little time and read 10 how to articles here at Literotica. Absorb the information. It will be helpful. There's a ton of helpful information at this site if you just look for it.

Grammarly, or MS Word's reviewing tools, which I use, don't tell me anything I don't already know. But they help me catch things I miss as I write because my fingers do weird things when they hit the keyboard.

If you are an American fiction writer and you want an authority, I strongly recommend the Chicago Manual of Style, and I also recommend Benjamin Dreyer's Dreyer's English. He's the chief copy editor of Random House. You cannot be more of an authority on fiction editing than that.

With over 5 decades since I haunted an English classroom, my punctuation skills are/were non-existent. I had to relearn a LOT!

Grammarly is good because, in the heat of writing, I miss stuff. Having mistakes highlighted helps immensely. We all know how many mistakes we miss no matter how many times we re-read our work.

It's not an authority but it's a damn effective tool. It saves me hours on editing.

 

[SimonDoom]

With over 5 decades since I haunted an English classroom, my punctuation skills are/were non-existent. I had to relearn a LOT!

.

Many people are the same way.

I had a good English education, but the main reason I know grammar isn't talent or education; it is years of practice. I've had over three decades of a career in which I have written daily, and it has been imperative to write grammatically correct English. We all have different experiences.

When I started writing fiction, five years ago, it was a whole new ball of wax. I had to pay attention to words in a way I hadn't before. I wasn't trying to persuade somebody of something. Instead, I was trying to write something that would turn someone on.

Erotica is a lot of fun to write, and I think it keeps you on your toes.