Grammarly... is it wrong?

[jaF0]

Writing is no different from anything else. It's a craft, ...

For some.

For others it's just a casual pastime with no real goals.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's interesting to me to see the continual hostility that so many writers at Literotica have toward grammar.

Agree this. But then there's the distinction between writers and good writers, and writers and popular writers; and they're not always the same thing, here or in the marketplace.

Given that most of the more grammatically aware writers tend to be professionals (either as writers or in their own career), university educated, well read, and culturally aware, I think that (some? many?) of the proponents of "writing with everyman's rules", or "write how I like" might have an anti-intellectual chip on their shoulder that's more revealing about them than it is about me.

I would have thought, as you do, that those who want to get better at what they do would indeed pay attention to a decent toolbox and what's in it, and at least try to brush up on the basics. And I suspect most who wander by here do pay attention and do indeed pick up a few tips, and it's only the vociferous few who keep fighting for a low bar to crawl under.

- and I still haven't gone back and fixed the tenses in that story. But my tense control is perfect now, thanks to a polite pointing out. "It was completely subconscious, your Honour."

"No, you just hadn't learned all the rules."

 

[SimonDoom]

For some.

For others it's just a casual pastime with no real goals.

That's fine. There's no law that says how you have to write. But then don't be surprised if you get the same reaction as the carpenter whose chairs collapse because he pays no attention to the basic conventions of carpentry. You're in no more position to complain than is the carpenter. If you don't care about that, then OK.

 

[KeithD]

It's interesting to me to see the continual hostility that so many writers at Literotica have toward grammar.

I've always felt the hostility here for trying to give writing presentation advice, yes. That I try to give a citation to an authority doesn't help--and even when I try to point to the flexibility in the usage. They hate on both the authority and me. It's like I should feel guilty that I put in the work to get the credentials in the art.

 

[XerXesXu]

It's interesting to me to see the continual hostility that so many writers at Literotica have toward grammar.

Foot, mouth, insert. You have a bad habit.

Say aloud the words:

'lets + eat + grandma' Do you hear any apostrophes, commas or capitalisations. No, because they're not properties of grammar. The sentence is perfectly comprehensible without them, disambiguation is by context. Are you addressing grandma, or your sibs and/or first cousins?

The typographical marks on the written word are "Style'.

Write out 100 times

'It's interesting to me to see the continual hostility that so many writers at Literotica have toward a publisher's style.'

If you're not going to use a publisher, why should you conform to their style? To appease the style trolls?

Writing is a creative process. In the 21st C anyone can publish. They can use stylistic markings creatively, or leave them out where they serve no purpose. A better, more elastic, more inclusive style will probably emerge, that serves the needs of the screen, rather than paper.

Join the future.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Writing is a creative process. In the 21st C anyone can publish. They can use stylistic markings creatively, or leave them out where they serve no purpose. A better, more elastic, more inclusive style will probably emerge, that serves the needs of the screen, rather than paper.

Join the future.

Considering those who complain most about reader comments savaging them for lousy grammar do in fact have lousy grammar, your argument just encourages people not to learn a few basic rules. Sure, language evolves, but why fight what works? Learn the basics and your writing life gets easier. It's a head scratcher for me wondering why folk insist on making their lives harder.

Sure, anyone can publish, but it doesn't mean they're not publishing crap. I'm sure if you do a random sample of successful writers, you'll find the vast majority of them adhere to a fairly common grammatical structure, and aren't just making it up as they go along.

If writers want to get read, it's probably not a bad idea to adhere to a set of rules that most readers know. Conventions, that's why we have them.

 

[jaF0]

My commas are chameleons. They can vanish or appear as colons or semi colons or ellipsis.


I'm more concerned about my Es apeparing in the right place and not between the t and h in 'the' or between double letters like in 'appearing' above.

 

[KeithD]

Literotica is a publisher. Bottom line here is if Literotica accepts it, you're good to go as far as Literotica is concerned and no one will/should bother you (although you'll note that Laurel rejects stories left and right for not observing this publisher's standards--and folks come here to whine about that frequently). They jolly well might down rate or negative comment your story, though. If they do, and they are right (often they aren't) that's just tough for you.

If you assert that "whatever" is good to go beyond Literotica, though, you're out of bounds. If you still want to argue about it, you're arrogant, ignorant, and stubborn. If you bring a question about best practice to the discussion board, you should expect to get a "best practice" answer. Chances are you'll get both that and a "what might fly on Literotica" response. If you want to continue arguing your "it's all about me" personal preference style beyond that, you, again, are being arrogant, ignorant, and stubborn.

Your choice. Most of the problem here, though, is a poster asking for best practice advice and getting a bunch of half-baked, purely personal preference answers that are going to bog them down in false information for a long time to come. We get that "well, I was taught" wildly wrong weighing in on issues here all the time. That becomes "well, someone posted" (that wildly wrong and damaging to development) guidance on the Literotica board. Equality on the Internet is equal access, not equal knowledge about a specific issue. Many don't seem to be able to understand this and they feel free to weigh in on the basis of unbaked or half-baked supposition/personal preference.

Illustrations of that are continuing to be posted to this very thread.

 

[Nouh_Bdee]

This thread is great for letting me know which users to add to my Ignore List

 

[XerXesXu]

Considering those who complain most about reader comments savaging them for lousy grammar do in fact have lousy grammar, your argument just encourages people not to learn a few basic rules. Sure, language evolves, but why fight what works? Learn the basics and your writing life gets easier. It's a head scratcher for me wondering why folk insist on making their lives harder.

Sure, anyone can publish, but it doesn't mean they're not publishing crap. I'm sure if you do a random sample of successful writers, you'll find the vast majority of them adhere to a fairly common grammatical structure, and aren't just making it up as they go along.

If writers want to get read, it's probably not a bad idea to adhere to a set of rules that most readers know. Conventions, that's why we have them.

Successful print-book writers have to adhere, pretty strictly, to their publisher’s ‘stylistic’ structure, that’s why you’ll find it there. Obvious, on a moment’s reflection?

The point I was making to Simon is, that if you’re going to prescribe for others, try to get beyond the first sentence without displaying a profound misunderstanding of the distinction between grammar and style. “Style” isn’t a difficult word to use.

I believe you’re wrong to think that most readers know stylistic conventions. Most of those, who go beyond reading, and write, don’t.

Wherever you publish, most people will think what you publish is crap. In the literary world, that’s after having been through a pretty stringent crap test, the slush pile, as well. Sharing, especially in writing, is not for the sensitive.

Get out more, swap a life of ease for one of challenge, excitement, creativity, innovation, and, dare I say ’fun’, and you’ll never return to a life of ease, under the dead-hand of a control-freaking authority.

Head scratching makes you go bald.

 

[KeithD]

Wherever you publish, most people will think what you publish is crap.

Hey, what?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Head scratching makes you go bald.

Lol. Too late!

I guess I never had all this angst that the bewailing masses seem to have about grammar because along the way I picked it all up, and now it's as automatic as breathing. Or like driving in Oz, on the left; which like most rules makes things so much easier.

Taking one of your points, though - I reckon writing with a personal style still requires a decent foundation in grammar. They're not substitutes for each other, one builds on the other. I, for example, have a characteristic style that uses a lot of long, languid sentences. I couldn't write the way I do if I didn't have the first clue about punctuation and where to use it.

 

[XerXesXu]

Hey, what?

Late breaking news? Surely not.

There was this guy, about 40, banging his Grandma, doggie-style, over the dustbin. He pauses for breath and says, "I see W.C.Grace has scored a century against Australia at Lords."

Granny replies, "Where the fuck did that come from? This is the first fuck I've had since your Grandad ran off with his mother, and you're blethering about cricket."

"I'm reading the piece of newspaper stuck to your asshole."

 

[XerXesXu]

Lol. Too late!

I guess I never had all this angst that the bewailing masses seem to have about grammar because along the way I picked it all up, and now it's as automatic as breathing. Or like driving in Oz, on the left; which like most rules makes things so much easier.

Taking one of your points, though - I reckon writing with a personal style still requires a decent foundation in grammar. They're not substitutes for each other, one builds on the other. I, for example, have a characteristic style that uses a lot of long, languid sentences. I couldn't write the way I do if I didn't have the first clue about punctuation and where to use it.

Ahh. One of Geoffrey McGeechin's mates. There's a man with voice; and the voice is AUSTRALIA.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Ahh. One of Geoffrey McGeechin's mates. There's a man with voice; and the voice is AUSTRALIA.

Never heard of him. Until now.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Ahh. One of Geoffrey McGeechin's mates. There's a man with voice; and the voice is AUSTRALIA.

(Quick Google search...) Nope, never heard of him either. I probably should read more local novels.

 

[KeithD]

Late breaking news? Surely not.

True? Of course not. And it pretty much ruins anything else you have to post on this.

 

[XerXesXu]

True? Of course not. And it pretty much ruins anything else you have to post on this.

I'm beginning to think you work in vanity publishing.

 

[KeithD]

I'm beginning to think you work in vanity publishing.

I'm beginning to think you're totally self-absorbed.

 

[XerXesXu]

I'm beginning to think you're totally self-absorbed.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[KeithD]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

You, of course will source that. You won't just petulantly assert it. It all matches my observation of your general miscuing and hostility to publishing and to the writing development welfare of writers at Literotica. I'm particularly interested in what I have posted that leads you to the conclusion that I work in vanity publishing. I'm quite publicly one of the only writers here who is publishing with publishers, not self-publishing. Specific citations please. My view is that you are just trying to personally wound. Good luck with that.

My mainstream publishing background is vetted with the moderator of Literotica's editor's forum. Is yours? Do you have any training or experience in publishing at all, or do you just pull your "it's all about me" preferences and prejudices out of your ass here? But then I'm not all that interested in that. Happy to see your libeling of me backed up, though.

 

[XerXesXu]

You, of course will source that. You won't just petulantly assert it. It all matches my observation of your general miscuing and hostility to publishing and to the writing development welfare of writers at Literotica. I'm particularly interested in what I have posted that leads you to the conclusion that I work in vanity publishing. I'm quite publicly one of the only writers here who is publishing with publishers, not self-publishing. Specific citations please. My view is that you are just trying to personally wound. Good luck with that.

My mainstream publishing background is vetted with the moderator of Literotica's editor's forum. Is yours? Do you have any training or experience in publishing at all, or do you just pull your "it's all about me" preferences and prejudices out of your ass here? But then I'm not all that interested in that. Happy to see your libeling of me backed up, though.

I'm in a good mood today. I shan't be unkind.

 

[KeithD]

I'm in a good mood today. I shan't be unkind.

You already have been . . . today. Or do you not know what day it is?

I'll take that as a, no, you're not going to back up your assertion because you were just making it up to personally attack. You didn't have to post at all for me to know that's what you were doing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Um, is one of you about to say, "I'm rubber, your glue, what you say bounces off me, and sticks to you?"

That's a joke, don't hate me for it. It's just y'all been hitting each other for a long time now.

 

[XerXesXu]

You already have been . . . today. Or do you not know what day it is?

I'll take that as a, no, you're not going to back up your assertion because you were just making it up to personally attack. You didn't have to post at all for me to know that's what you were doing.

I may be old, but I still have all my adult teeth. We can continue when yours come through.