Google Translate help?

[Voboy]

So I'm not the most tech-savvy guy, and I'm curious.

Say I'm writing a story set in Afghanistan. I need a single word (NOT an extensive phrase) in Pashto or Dari. I type the phrase into Google Translate, which I've done before with good luck.

But. Folks who write Pashto do so right-to-left, in Arabic-looking characters.

I'm having no luck converting that into a "spoken" version of Pashto that I can use in a Lit story. For you folks who are savvier about Google Translate, is there a setting I'm missing that puts the English word into a Western version of Pashto, rather than the Arabic-looking characters?

 

[KeithD]

So I'm not the most tech-savvy guy, and I'm curious.

Say I'm writing a story set in Afghanistan. I need a single word (NOT an extensive phrase) in Pashto or Dari. I type the phrase into Google Translate, which I've done before with good luck.

But. Folks who write Pashto do so right-to-left, in Arabic-looking characters.

I'm having no luck converting that into a "spoken" version of Pashto that I can use in a Lit story. For you folks who are savvier about Google Translate, is there a setting I'm missing that puts the English word into a Western version of Pashto, rather than the Arabic-looking characters?

It can be a laborious process (and not always successful) to get a Romanized translation from English to a Romanized version of a language without a Latin alphabet, but I just managed it with Dari, running a phrase through a translator program (google didn't offer Dari), getting the Dari script, and then running the Dari script through a Dari to Latin converter program, both offered in the same google search.

 

[RejectReality]

With one word, it probably won't be as much of an issue, but getting a literal translation for a word in another language may not convey what you're trying to convey.

I had a phrase in Spanish I wanted to add to one of mine, and went that route. Fortunately, I had a bilingual speaker to run it past when I finished. She told me it was technically right, but it sounded like it was being read off in monotone by a Spanish teacher in her head. She gave me a more natural version of the phrase that meant the same thing, but wasn't so stiff and formal.

Sad thing is, I took two years of Spanish in school, and the only thing I can remember is how to order beer, ask where the bathroom is, and jump when I hear "Cierra tus bocas!" followed by a book slamming on the desk.

 

[KeithD]

If you put it in a Literotica story, you're doing it mostly for effect anyway and providing the English version somehow as well. This isn't a place for readers to have to understand unexplained (in English) Dari or Pashto.

 

[RejectReality]

If you put it in a Literotica story, you're doing it mostly for effect anyway and providing the English version somehow as well. This isn't a place for readers to have to understand unexplained (in English) Dari or Pashto.

Also less likely that you're going to be called out on something stiff/formal/wrong than a language more common in the U.S. like Spanish.

In mine, I had the character repeat it in English after a couple of deep breaths. She'd reverted to her first language in the heat of the moment, but translated for him as soon as she caught her breath.

 

[Voboy]

If you put it in a Literotica story, you're doing it mostly for effect anyway and providing the English version somehow as well. This isn't a place for readers to have to understand unexplained (in English) Dari or Pashto.

Exactly. It's explained in the very next paragraph. I've got a few options, but I was hoping I could simply reconfigure Google Translate.

Ah, well. I might just copy/paste the Pashto word, submit it, and then see what Laurel does with it. At least then I'd know.

Thanks, all.

 

[NotWise]

RubenR managed to place Amharic (I think it was) glyphs in a story. Maybe you should check with him on how he did it.

 

[Voboy]

RubenR managed to place Amharic (I think it was) glyphs in a story. Maybe you should check with him on how he did it.

Thanks!

 

[Hypoxia]

When I write, "Lóoviqu´s, that was nice, so nice," I don't expect readers to check to see if I used the Hopi word correctly. And nobody has yet complained.

 

[KeithD]

I had someone on another Web site offer to do better translations for me in one story (I forget the language), which was I nice way to tell me I'd butchered it. I hadn't put the story into the marketplace yet, so I gladly accepted.

 

[Javahead]

I had someone on another Web site offer to do better translations for me in one story (I forget the language), which was I nice way to tell me I'd butchered it. I hadn't put the story into the marketplace yet, so I gladly accepted.

The native speaker is always best. Sometimes literal, even if technically correct, translations convey totally the wrong meaning.

I got M’lady to help me with a couple of Chinese translations for a character in a story (a ‘naughty’ tattoo). She pulled up a couple of Google images to explain that ‘love’ tattooed there was just nicely risqué, but the lady with ‘friends’ in the same place was probably a professional sort of friend. Who knew?

 

[Voboy]

When I write, "Lóoviqu´s, that was nice, so nice," I don't expect readers to check to see if I used the Hopi word correctly. And nobody has yet complained.

Right, and that's exactly what I want to do, but that's not the problem I'm having. You're using Latin letters up there, no matter what characters the Hopi used in writing; what I'm trying to do is get the Pashto "letters" transliterated into the Roman alphabet, which is the step I can't easily find out how to do.

 

[KeithD]

The native speaker is always best. Sometimes literal, even if technically correct, translations convey totally the wrong meaning.

I got M’lady to help me with a couple of Chinese translations for a character in a story (a ‘naughty’ tattoo). She pulled up a couple of Google images to explain that ‘love’ tattooed there was just nicely risqué, but the lady with ‘friends’ in the same place was probably a professional sort of friend. Who knew?

I agree that's best, but I also repeat that I think non-English phrases in an English-language story should only be there for atmospheric effect and should be explained in English terms somehow, so "best" translation isn't all the critical for me.

(And, as one who was forced by academic requirements to trudge through several years of Mandarin, I'll note that there's no "Chinese" spoken language. There are, instead, hundreds of dialects. The unifying "Chinese" is in the written ideographs, not in any spoken dialogue.)

 

[KeithD]

Right, and that's exactly what I want to do, but that's not the problem I'm having. You're using Latin letters up there, no matter what characters the Hopi used in writing; what I'm trying to do is get the Pashto "letters" transliterated into the Roman alphabet, which is the step I can't easily find out how to do.

What you need is an “English to Pashto” converter (https://translate.google.com/?tl=fa#view=home&op=translate&sl=en&tl=ps) and then a Pashto to Latin converter (http://mylanguages.org/pashto_romanization.php). Two steps. This isn’t available for all languages on the Internet and actual functionality can get delicate.

 

[Javahead]

I agree that's best, but I also repeat that I think non-English phrases in an English-language story should only be there for atmospheric effect and should be explained in English terms somehow, so "best" translation isn't all the critical for me.

(And, as one who was forced by academic requirements to trudge through several years of Mandarin, I'll note that there's no "Chinese" spoken language. There are, instead, hundreds of dialects. The unifying "Chinese" is in the written ideographs, not in any spoken dialogue.)

I actually agree, for atmosphere. It’s mangled dialogue that gets problematic. Or phrases that native speakers find hilarious because of their common slang meanings. Here be dragons.

But I’m quite aware of the multiplicity of Chinese dialects. My example was specifically on the written form for a tattoo - and per M’lady, the connotations hold for both dialects she speaks (Cantonese and Mandarin).

At least we’re not indulging in the once-common practice of including long untranslated classical quotations in Latin or Greek to show our erudition.

 

[Comentarista82]

With one word, it probably won't be as much of an issue, but getting a literal translation for a word in another language may not convey what you're trying to convey.

I had a phrase in Spanish I wanted to add to one of mine, and went that route. Fortunately, I had a bilingual speaker to run it past when I finished. She told me it was technically right, but it sounded like it was being read off in monotone by a Spanish teacher in her head. She gave me a more natural version of the phrase that meant the same thing, but wasn't so stiff and formal.

Sad thing is, I took two years of Spanish in school, and the only thing I can remember is how to order beer, ask where the bathroom is, and jump when I hear "Cierra tus bocas!" followed by a book slamming on the desk.

That would have been "¡Cierra tu boca!" by the way.

If you need something translated to be sure what it is (and it's not long, like an entire story), I'll be happy to help if I'm available.

And just in general regarding the thread: google translate is a one-per-word machine translation, so unless the one word or phrase has been reviewed by a native speaker and it's been verified (it will show up with a check), it still might not be right depending on what's input. It will be better for some languages than for others, but that depends on native speakers having verified each translation...and then you still can't be 100% unless you happen to know enough of the language to know it's right by the context.

 

[KeithD]

Or you can just not worry that much about writing for the anal retentive.

Something I do to check on how badly a translation might be garbled is to run it back through the process, back to English, and see how close it is to what you wanted to convey.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

My ‘Hinn’ series uses a bunch of latinized Arabic terms discovered through quite a bit of online research, including going into multiple Arabic thesaurii & digging around to compare different meanings/interpretations. I’ve also done similarly with Russian and Icelandic to a much lesser degree.

I started out by finding via google & google translate a word that seemed like it might be close to what I wanted, then spent time finding & using thesaurii. Over half the time, this has eventually led me to what seem to be terms that fit better.

 

[Voboy]

That would have been "¡Cierra tu boca!" by the way.

If you need something translated to be sure what it is (and it's not long, like an entire story), I'll be happy to help if I'm available.

And just in general regarding the thread: google translate is a one-per-word machine translation, so unless the one word or phrase has been reviewed by a native speaker and it's been verified (it will show up with a check), it still might not be right depending on what's input. It will be better for some languages than for others, but that depends on native speakers having verified each translation...and then you still can't be 100% unless you happen to know enough of the language to know it's right by the context.

I know all this. It's just one word.

KeithD is right. It's for atmosphere, not for the anal-retentive.

 

[Comentarista82]

I know all this. It's just one word.

KeithD is right. It's for atmosphere, not for the anal-retentive.

And with all due respect, my post was not directed to you/at you. However, I will reply.

In your context, you don't have to worry about one word in a story that's not likely to be linguistically scrutinized so yes you are "off the hook" in that sense. However, if your one word in your story did matter, that would be different.

Otherwise, one word linguistically speaking can have tons of meaning and one word misspoken can even cause tragedy. A perfect example of this is Choate, who translated from Spanish to English for the Texas Rangers when they were looking to find a man who murdered someone. He mistakenly misidentified the "man" as Gregorio Cortez, and because of that major mistranslation, we have "The Ballad of Gregorio Cortez," which is a South Texas literary treasure, where Cortez outwits the Rangers for over 3 weeks. He was exonerated of the crime, and this was even documented in the 1900s in the San Antonio Light.

So my other point is, it's best to clarify your statement with "it's only one word, for atmosphere," which makes your point, but to add "not for the anal-retentive" invokes a genetic fallacy.

 

[Bramblethorn]

With one word, it probably won't be as much of an issue, but getting a literal translation for a word in another language may not convey what you're trying to convey.

Even one word can easily go wrong if there's more than one way to translate it, or if the word is modified by context as happens a lot in non-English languages.

If I want to translate the instruction "Drink!" into German, for instance, that could be "Trink!", "Trinkt!", or "Trinken!" depending on whether I'm talking to one person or several, and on whether I'm talking to children, an adult I know well, or a stranger.

 

[Javahead]

I know all this. It's just one word.

KeithD is right. It's for atmosphere, not for the anal-retentive.

Alas, I am sometimes anal-retentive. And knowing that I got it wrong drives me crazy.

I believe that Mark Twain said that the difference between the right word and the almost-right word was the difference between lightening and a lightening bug.

And even when I know, rationally, that it doesn't really matter . . . it bugs me.

 

[KeithD]

Alas, I am sometimes anal-retentive. And knowing that I got it wrong drives me crazy.

I believe that Mark Twain said that the difference between the right word and the almost-right word was the difference between lightening and a lightening bug.

And even when I know, rationally, that it doesn't really matter . . . it bugs me.

Then don't put any foreign words in your stories. It's not a requirement.

 

[Javahead]

Then don't put any foreign words in your stories. It's not a requirement.

I keep them to a minimum. And do my best to make sure that I don't make any avoidable mistakes the rest of the time.

Then again, I'm a software guy on my day job. And I know with glum certainty that the best you can do is use good practices and eliminate all known bugs. But any sizable piece of code will likely be obsolete before all the unknown bugs are tracked down and fixed.

 

[Voboy]

And with all due respect, my post was not directed to you/at you. However, I will reply.

In your context, you don't have to worry about one word in a story that's not likely to be linguistically scrutinized so yes you are "off the hook" in that sense. However, if your one word in your story did matter, that would be different.

...

So my other point is, it's best to clarify your statement with "it's only one word, for atmosphere," which makes your point, but to add "not for the anal-retentive" invokes a genetic fallacy.

Okay, except that I already spelled all that out in Post 19. Might want to read it. I also posted what I was looking for in the post which began this thread.

Thanks.