Good Manners

[oggbashan]

In his 90s, living in a retirement home because his short-term memory was gone, but still physically fit, my father was aware that it wasn't done to open doors for women only so he opened doors for men and women.

He stood up whenever a woman entered a room, even if it was the cleaner come to check the state of his washbasin. He held chairs for the other residents at meal times, helped frail and wobbly residents into and out of their chairs, and treated everyone, resident or staff, with respect.

He liked to inspect the kitchens twice daily because his career had involved catering. If he found something amiss he would have a quiet word with the person responsible and suggest that there were better ways... He ought to have been resented. He wasn't because he never embarrassed or denigrated the cooks and their assistants. The kitchens were always immaculately clean and hygienic because nothing less would do to satisfy him. The catering staff passed all their hygiene examinations with high marks because of my father's coaching.

He believed in people and thought that everyone deserved to be treated with respect UNLESS they demonstrated that they weren't worthy. His idea of the purpose of good manners was that they help to make people feel comfortable when they were in new situations.

I try to live up to his standards but it isn't easy in the 21st century when good manners can be taken as an affront.

Og

 

[BlackShanglan]

Like many, I open doors for everyone. I try to make life kinder when I can and to show respect and tolerance to others. God knows there's enough unpleasantness in the world already. I like those sorts of manners in anyone, and respect anyone who shows them.

I regret the continual erosion of the idea that there is anything on the face of the earth worth dressing for. I'm far from finicky in my own daily dress, but it's depressing to think that people really want to live in a world where nothing has a sense of occasion, ceremony, or specialness to it. I don't really want my own convenience to be the centerpiece of every activity and location.

I also bitterly mourn the loss of the idea of civilized debate from most public spheres. Vitriol has been elevated to the status of virtue; the nastier one is to those who disagree with one's ideas, evidently the more proud one can then be of one's uncompromising principles. That any decent set of principles would suggest being kind and generous to others and attempting to promote one's ideals rather than offend people with them seems a lost concept. I miss it.

Shanglan

 

[Aurora Black]

Do you lament the passing of good manners?

Daily.

 

[McKenna]

I regret the continual erosion of the idea that there is anything on the face of the earth worth dressing for. I'm far from finicky in my own daily dress, but it's depressing to think that people really want to live in a world where nothing has a sense of occasion, ceremony, or specialness to it. I don't really want my own convenience to be the centerpiece of every activity and location.

I miss this, too.

I grew up in a household where "Sunday best" really was the best we had. My dad wore a suit, my brothers as well, and my mom and sisters and I all wore dresses. There are times I miss the dressing up (not so much the religion.) I had an opportunity to go to a service at a "come as you are" church, and it just didn't feel the same.

A few weeks ago I went to a wedding. I wore a skirt and blouse set, quite snazzy, and I was one of the better dressed there. At first I debated if a skirt would be "too casual."

I don't mean to come off like a snob; I do realize there are more important things in life than clothing, but even a clean, pressed, well-worn shirt looks better than a t-shirt, in my opinion, especially if the occasion warrants something dressier.

 

[Liar]

"Today's youth are selfish, discourteous lazy and self-indulgent. Lacking the respect for their elders or for common decency, the young (are) hedonistic, shallow, amusement-seeking creatures… The
boys (are) feeble, flippant, and soft intellectually, spiritually and physically. Even worse the girls (are) brash loud, and promiscuous with young men."
-Cornelia Corner, 1911

 

[kendo1]

A kilt is always good for any occassion.

I find that being polite takes up a lot of time.
I couldn't get away from a shop the other day, as the asian shopkeeper would not stop talking. True, I asked him how he was. He responded about how his business was doing in difficult trading, with supermarkets taking much of his business away. Customers came and went as the conversation continued, with hardly a word spoken by them as they made their purchases.

 

[L_homme]

You missed the point, friend. MANNERS ARE ACTIONS NOT WORDS OR DIALOGUE..

Oh, then please forgive my insolence in this instance. The words weren't from a story; they were just made up to illustrate a point, so I wasn't sure why you thought it warranted a carnal dismissal. Manners aren't just about actions. Often what you say counts for a lot when being polite. Problem is, these days, being polite by action, such as holding open a door, pulling a chair out etc might be seen as a bit old fashioned? I suppose what constitutes good manners in actions depends on the circumstance. Some of the recent points illustrate this well. Perhaps give me your example for me to understand the point your making about actions speaking louder than words?

 

[L_homme]

On the flip side, I often heard the Dutch say that Americans were "too polite."

Is that so? What about 'Americans being too brash, arrogant, etc'. I think its a generalisation, a misperception.

 

[Skip1934a]

If I open the door for a lady today, I'm just as likely to be met with a "thank you" as with a "what, do you think I'm fucking handicapped?!"

Manners change with the rest of the culture. Means new things to new generations. I'd say it's more geared towartds individualization these days, and less a mandatory collective pattern of behaviour.

You're so right, despite your ID of liar.I was born in the US in 1934 (get the ckue in my ID?), and we were taught to respect women, and treat them well. That meant opening doors for them, helping them from vehicles, walking on the street side of them (so they wouldn't get splashed from cars running throug puddles, I supposed, or maybe so you'd shield tham from run-a-way horses or whetever.

Then came the feminist movement, and things began to change. I'm not saying that everything they did was wrong; far from it. They now have a better chance of rising in the business world, and expressing their independance, and all that, which is good IMHO. But some of the stuff, like you said, if you try onening a door for some of them you get cursed out.

Manners is the key to getting along in the world today, just as it has been for centuries. Be polite, men and women. Treat each other with due respect.

(slowly descending from the soapbox, and bowing discreetely)

 

[Skip1934a]

I also bitterly mourn the loss of the idea of civilized debate from most public spheres. Vitriol has been elevated to the status of virtue; the nastier one is to those who disagree with one's ideas, evidently the more proud one can then be of one's uncompromising principles. That any decent set of principles would suggest being kind and generous to others and attempting to promote one's ideals rather than offend people with them seems a lost concept. I miss it.

Shanglan

Your post speaks to the newer idea that 'he who dies with the most toys, wins.' I agree with what you say. Whatever happened to grace in dealing with others? Grace in the context of undeserved respect. It drives the impolite mad when you do that to them.

 

[Skip1934a]

Is that so? What about 'Americans being too brash, arrogant, etc'. I think its a generalisation, a misperception.

The 'ugly american'. I saw that attitude in many European countries when I visited them. They were amazed that I didn't fit that mold.

 

[Skip1934a]

"Today's youth are selfish, discourteous lazy and self-indulgent. Lacking the respect for their elders or for common decency, the young (are) hedonistic, shallow, amusement-seeking creatures… The
boys (are) feeble, flippant, and soft intellectually, spiritually and physically. Even worse the girls (are) brash loud, and promiscuous with young men."
-Cornelia Corner, 1911

... and your quote applies to successive generations. Today's youth often display the same traits. That's why I think every male in the US should serve mandatory military time, so they will grow up. And every girl should suffer corporal punishment for bad attitude.

Each generation is responsible for training the next in how to live in society. And each gereration seems to fail. But as the younger generation matures, they do generally mellow into the norm that society has established. Even my own children have, and I thought the lot of them were unruly imbeciles as youth. (grin)

 

[McKenna]

Is that so? What about 'Americans being too brash, arrogant, etc'. I think its a generalisation, a misperception.

Nah, really?!

 

[matriarch]

Like many, I open doors for everyone. I try to make life kinder when I can and to show respect and tolerance to others. God knows there's enough unpleasantness in the world already. I like those sorts of manners in anyone, and respect anyone who shows them.

I regret the continual erosion of the idea that there is anything on the face of the earth worth dressing for. I'm far from finicky in my own daily dress, but it's depressing to think that people really want to live in a world where nothing has a sense of occasion, ceremony, or specialness to it. I don't really want my own convenience to be the centerpiece of every activity and location.

I also bitterly mourn the loss of the idea of civilized debate from most public spheres. Vitriol has been elevated to the status of virtue; the nastier one is to those who disagree with one's ideas, evidently the more proud one can then be of one's uncompromising principles. That any decent set of principles would suggest being kind and generous to others and attempting to promote one's ideals rather than offend people with them seems a lost concept. I miss it.

Shanglan

What the horsey said.
Good manners are, as far as I'm concerned, a state of mind, a result of being taught to always respect other people. I was brought up that way, and my sons were too. That doesn't make any of us wimps or morons, it simply means knowing that saying 'please' and 'thank you', and making the people you are with feel comfortable in any way you can are things we do because its the way we are. Smiling, as they say, costs nothing, and in the right place, will make someone else's day.

I have no problem with holding open a door for someone, male or female, saying 'please' or 'thank you' with a smile to someone I'm expecting to do a service for me, whether it be their job or not. It pays nothing to be polite and show them respect for what they're doing. I would give up my seat on a bus or train for someone more frail than me, and smile while I'm doing it. Why should I draw attention to their frailty AND make them feel guilty about it at the same time? It serves no purpose, and that small thing, done with a smile could be the one good thing that happens to them in their day.

Being polite, like I said, is all about being aware of other people and what's going on around you.

I despair sometimes, when I'm out in the 'wild'....the people around me so often don't seem like people, more like animals in a jungle. Treat it like a jungle, and very quickly it becomes one.

[/old-woman-yearning-for-the-old-days rant over]

Most people in this modern world have a real problem with accepting when they are wrong. I've lost count of the number of times a simple apology of mine, over even the most trivial of things, has completely turned around a situation. There's nothing unmanly or unwomanly about admitting when you're wrong.

I don't understand people who prefer to spend their lives in a state of constant aggression, constant confrontation, and apparently seeing no pleasure in anything - because smiling, being happy, and being aware of other people makes them look 'uncool'. Sad, sad people.

OK, I'm done now.

 

[matriarch]

I miss this, too.

I grew up in a household where "Sunday best" really was the best we had. My dad wore a suit, my brothers as well, and my mom and sisters and I all wore dresses. There are times I miss the dressing up (not so much the religion.) I had an opportunity to go to a service at a "come as you are" church, and it just didn't feel the same.

A few weeks ago I went to a wedding. I wore a skirt and blouse set, quite snazzy, and I was one of the better dressed there. At first I debated if a skirt would be "too casual."

I don't mean to come off like a snob; I do realize there are more important things in life than clothing, but even a clean, pressed, well-worn shirt looks better than a t-shirt, in my opinion, especially if the occasion warrants something dressier.

Exactly.
On the flip side of that, the problem with clothes is that they can so easily form a class barrier and division. And they definitely do with teenagers and even younger children now. The must have fashion item has now become the major way of fitting in,being one of the crowd. Most teenagers fail to see the irony of 'I wouldn't be seen dead in a school uniform', and 'But I HAVE to have those trainers/jeans/t-shirt/coat/bag - everyone who's someone has one. If you make me wear those (items bought by said parent), I'll be the laughing stock.'

I love to dress up for special occasions.....I also love to dress down and relax in what I call sloppies. Dressing up for a special occason, is, in my mind, a sign of respect for the host/hostess of the occasion you are attending. You are showing them that you value their invitation, and their occasion so much, you've gone to a great deal of trouble with your dress.

When I was a kid, we didn't have much money, but we all had one set of clothes that was 'special', and occasionally, on a Sunday, we'd all get scrubbed up and into our special outfits (scarlet dresses for me and my sis, with little blazers with brass buttons, and highly polished shoes ) to go on a train (a real treat to actually leave the small town where we lived) - a steam train - to Ipswich, around 20 miles away - to spend the afternoon in a huge public park with tea rooms, walks, playgrounds. We enjoyed ourselves, even in our 'Sunday Best', still behaved like kids, had fun...but the whole day was special, and felt that way.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Most people in this modern world have a real problem with accepting when they are wrong. I've lost count of the number of times a simple apology of mine, over even the most trivial of things, has completely turned around a situation. There's nothing unmanly or unwomanly about admitting when you're wrong.

I don't understand people who prefer to spend their lives in a state of constant aggression, constant confrontation, and apparently seeing no pleasure in anything - because smiling, being happy, and being aware of other people makes them look 'uncool'. Sad, sad people.

OK, I'm done now.

At the risk of seeming to start a mutual congratulation society, I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Mat. I can't convince myself that even people who "win" in this sort of thing - that is, force others to back down or kowtow to them - can possibly be happy. It's like spending your life in the role of top jackal at the carcass, snapping and snarling in constant fear of someone else getting a bite and knowing that the second you back down you'll get it in the hamstrings. Delightful way to live.

Shanglan

 

[scheherazade_79]

I have a real thing about aggressive rudeness - people who shout at public sector workers, or are pushy on the roads, or ignore queues, or swear at random strangers.

I also get annoyed when people don't say please and thank you.

I don't have any real problem with admitting when I'm in the wrong. I might not be all sunshine and light when I'm declaring it, but I still do it. I lose respect for other people when they don't.

Other things I consider rude:

1. Using a stranger's drive to turn your car around in.
2. Bumming cigarettes off people you don't know.
3. Calling customers by their first name.
4. Chafing your shopping trolley against someone else's heels.
5. Not letting the person with only two items go in front of your weekly grocery items.
6. Slouching with your hands in your pockets when something serious is being discussed.
7. Interrupting.
8. Being picky over food when you're at someone else's house - you eat everything and say it was nice, regardless of how much it turned your stomach.

There are probably way more, but I realise I'm beginning to sound like a character from an Enid Blyton novel already, so I'd better stop now

 

[Guest]

 

[scheherazade_79]

People who wee over toilet seats and don't wipe it.

 

[English Lady]

My daughter has been taught her manners since being tiny. When we go out to shops, she will always say "excuse me,please." if she would like to get past someone. So often these people comment on how well mannered she is. She says "please" and "thank you" and engages people in conversation. I think this is just politeness and nothing special, but you'd be amazed by how many people comment on it.

I will open a door for anyone, man, woman or child because I know how difficult it is to open doors with my hands full. I'll give up a seat for a person who needs it more than me on a train/bus and I'll ask someone who looks distressed if they'd like any help. I smile and say "please" and "thank you." to shop assistants and those folks in council offices or on the phone to customer service reps who really help me. A smile, or a kind word often follows from them. It makes everything far more pleasant.

I have to say I don't often see bad manners where I live, but actually it's usually not teenagers being impolite, it's more often than not someone between 20-80 being selfish and unthinking. In fact apart from being kinda loud, the teens (and I get a bus with a ubnch of them every evening when picking Beth up from school) are very polite.

I think manners make the owrld an easier and happier place to be. I'll continue to use my manners and be polite even if somone yells at me for doing so.

 

[FallingToFly]

Alright, call me pathetic but there's a commercial on the past couple weeks that gives me warm fuzzies. I think it's for an insurance company or something. Starts with a guy picking up a stuffed toy that a kid in a stroller has dropped. Somebody sees him do that and it inspires them to do something kind for someone else. The chain goes on for quite a few people. I'm a sap but I like that commercial.

I love that one too! I want the song off it, but I can't think of who sings it, lol.

And a side note:

All of my teenagers (we call them grasshoppers) are polite. There's only about ten of them right now, but I can take them en masse or one on one and trust that they won't embarass me. I can take them anywhere, from the opera to a mosh pit, and I know they will behave like young ladies and gentlemen. The reason is very simple: if they screw up, I grab their ear, haul them out by it, after excusing us, and apologizing for their conduct, and they never get to go anywhere with me again.

The best way to encourage manners is to reward them, just like anything else. Asking me for something politely will not only get what you want 9 times out of 10, but you get the added benefit of a smile, a hug, an affectionate gesture. Kids are starved for those things it seems, and something as simple as putting a hand on their shoulder while you lean over them and tell them they're doing a great job on the board they're nailing in goes a milion miles along the right path.

 

[English Lady]

I love that one too! I want the song off it, but I can't think of who sings it, lol.

And a side note:

All of my teenagers (we call them grasshoppers) are polite. There's only about ten of them right now, but I can take them en masse or one on one and trust that they won't embarass me. I can take them anywhere, from the opera to a mosh pit, and I know they will behave like young ladies and gentlemen. The reason is very simple: if they screw up, I grab their ear, haul them out by it, after excusing us, and apologizing for their conduct, and they never get to go anywhere with me again.

The best way to encourage manners is to reward them, just like anything else. Asking me for something politely will not only get what you want 9 times out of 10, but you get the added benefit of a smile, a hug, an affectionate gesture. Kids are starved for those things it seems, and something as simple as putting a hand on their shoulder while you lean over them and tell them they're doing a great job on the board they're nailing in goes a milion miles along the right path.

Wise, wise words for a side note

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Other things I consider rude:

1. Using a stranger's drive to turn your car around in.

I have to disagree with that one. Sometimes that's the safest (or only) way to turn around in some neighborhoods (especially with narrow streets).

the only reason I don't like people doing that in my driveway is that it gives me the false hope that I'll get to say "hello" to someone, and then my they drive away and I'm left alone. It'snot really their fault that I have those thoughts running through their head. They just needed to turn around for whatever reason.

 

[kendo1]

I expect god manners from my kids too.


As for school uniforms, it is necessary at their school. Pupils are returned home if they are not presented to the standard required. This applies to their hair, make-up, jewellry, etc. as well. It's a great leveller, so they can concentrate on why they are going to school.


I do object to people ignoring me when I hold a door open and they just brush past me as if I'm the doorman. I generally say 'thankyou' to them in a loud voice to make my point and call attention to their rudeness.

Hannibal would be proud of me.

 

[Just-Legal]

I have a real thing about aggressive rudeness - people who shout at public sector workers, or are pushy on the roads, or ignore queues, or swear at random strangers.

I also get annoyed when people don't say please and thank you.

I don't have any real problem with admitting when I'm in the wrong. I might not be all sunshine and light when I'm declaring it, but I still do it. I lose respect for other people when they don't.

Other things I consider rude:

1. Using a stranger's drive to turn your car around in.
2. Bumming cigarettes off people you don't know.
3. Calling customers by their first name.
4. Chafing your shopping trolley against someone else's heels.
5. Not letting the person with only two items go in front of your weekly grocery items.
6. Slouching with your hands in your pockets when something serious is being discussed.
7. Interrupting.
8. Being picky over food when you're at someone else's house - you eat everything and say it was nice, regardless of how much it turned your stomach.

There are probably way more, but I realise I'm beginning to sound like a character from an Enid Blyton novel already, so I'd better stop now

I'd like to agree with all of Zade's points, excluding 8, as I have rotten food allergies.

--

I'm 22 years old - I'd just like to get that out of the way now - and to be honest, the more polite I am in public the more I wonder why I bother. I will hold doors open, smile, be courteous, offer my seat etc and all I get are dirty looks and mumbled whispers. I'd love to live up to the image people seem to have of me sometimes because I'm so tired of trying to prove narrow minded idiots wrong.

A very tired J.Le