Good at writing foreplay, bad at writing sex

[Feotakahari]

This is something I've been struggling with for a while now. I do pretty well at writing the initial kisses and strokes, slowly building erotic tension, but when it comes time to cattle prod the oyster ditch with the lab rocket, I have no idea what to say. The main act seems less freeform and spontaneous, so I have a hard time describing it in ways that aren't already cliche. Does anyone have any advice to help with this?

 

[Brandie69]

Sometimes less is more. I know different readers will react to it differently, obviously.

But why not something like this:

"At last, with her hands on his waist, she drew him to her, and he entered her. She let out a soft cry as he pressed to his full depth. They held each other in a passionate embrace as their bodies moved together, now faster, now slower, and after he felt her clenching on him at her peak, he let himself go, streaming inside her."

The idea is not to be graphic, but rather, to be indirect, almost impressionistic, using pretty words rather than raunchy ones. It avoids entirely the use of words for the genitals, as their involvement is clearly implied.

Now, this probably won't work at all if the description of the foreplay has been fast, blunt and raunchy. The contrast would be just too great.

In one of my stories, the climax (in the literary sense of the word) was getting the mother and son to decide to cross the line and have sex at all. The whole point of it was to plausibly get them there, and I felt no need to describe an act that has been described uncounted millions of times. The story ends with the line "I opened my legs to him."

Now I'll grant you, maybe 10% of the comments are of the sort, "I just wish you had gone ahead and finished it," and the score is "only" a little over 4.0. But I am quite content with the piece, and feel that anything more at the end would have been blatant pandering on my part.

Your mileage may vary. Good luck and keep writing

p.s. "the oyster ditch." I completely disapprove, and yet love it.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

... but when it comes time to cattle prod the oyster ditch with the lab rocket ...

The what with the what?

I've been reading your other thread where you seemed to lose readers with your complex descriptions. This is an example of it.

You don't need to impress us with your imagery. This sort of talk makes it sound like you are uncomfortable with sex, and are trying to distance yourself from it with obscure words.

I have to agree with Brandie69 here. The sentence "I opened my legs ..." conveys a lot more to me than "cattle prod the oyster ditch with the lab rocket".

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is something I've been struggling with for a while now. I do pretty well at writing the initial kisses and strokes, slowly building erotic tension, but when it comes time to cattle prod the oyster ditch with the lab rocket, I have no idea what to say. The main act seems less freeform and spontaneous, so I have a hard time describing it in ways that aren't already cliche. Does anyone have any advice to help with this?

IMHO: don't focus too much on giving a blow-by-blow description of the physical action. Most readers have had sex, they already know the basic mechanics; if they just want a mental image of people fucking, they can get it far more easily on youporn or wherever it is the videos are these days. Unless you put them in unusual positions or something, there isn't going to be much novelty in the act itself; it's all been done many times.

But with prose, you can communicate state of mind. That doesn't need to stop at intromission. People can still talk and think while they're having sex, and that gives a lot more scope for creativity.

 

[Brandie69]

"But with prose, you can communicate state of mind. That doesn't need to stop at intromission. People can still talk and think while they're having sex, and that gives a lot more scope for creativity."

Exactly.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I try and remember advice Hemingway gave concerning all writing: Aim for where important change happens. The example he gave was fishing. You dont start with dragging the fish into the boat. You start with the bait nibble. Sex is pretty much the same process.

 

[lovecraft68]

I feel the same way, but don't see it as a big problem.

Think about it, most women will tell you the foreplay is, if not better than sex, at least just as good.

If the build up is there the sex will be good.

Same with stories, if you've really built it up, then the act of sex can be quicker and less detailed.

I spend a lot of time on the build up and anything other than "straight sex" I put a lot of detail into oral sex or fondling, but once its time to 'get it on' I don't drag those scenes out.

Haven't heard any complaints.

 

[PennLady]

I recently discovered -- and I know how it may sound -- that if the sex is important to my story for whatever reason, then it's easier to write it. In some of my romances, the sex isn't so integral, so writing it is a chore. In my last story, King's Bay, it was much easier b/c sex was more important to the story. (A friend of mine noted that when I want to, I can write some hot sex, so I guess I just need the right conditions. ).

What everyone else says is right to varying degrees. I think it's what happens around the sex -- the emotional build up and payoff, the reactions and feelings of the characters before, during and after -- that makes it more interesting and exciting.

I also agree with Brandie in the sense that you do not necessarily have to be graphic in describing the sex act. You might want to be, but you don't have to and those scenes can be just as arousing to some readers.

 

[lovecraft68]

I recently discovered -- and I know how it may sound -- that if the sex is important to my story for whatever reason, then it's easier to write it. In some of my romances, the sex isn't so integral, so writing it is a chore. In my last story, King's Bay, it was much easier b/c sex was more important to the story. (A friend of mine noted that when I want to, I can write some hot sex, so I guess I just need the right conditions. ).

What everyone else says is right to varying degrees. I think it's what happens around the sex -- the emotional build up and payoff, the reactions and feelings of the characters before, during and after -- that makes it more interesting and exciting.

I also agree with Brandie in the sense that you do not necessarily have to be graphic in describing the sex act. You might want to be, but you don't have to and those scenes can be just as arousing to some readers.

I think this is also another example of erotica vs. porn.

In romance I;m sure the sex does not have to be XXX to fit the story and be enjoyable, because there si some emotional attachment as well.

In stroke stories, they want things like "as he plunged his hard throbbing prick into my tight little box"

depends on not only the reader, but the writer and category.

I've read a couple of your stories, and I've also read a few by Boxlicker.

Now there's your apples and oranges and erotica vs Porn.

 

[PennLady]

I think this is also another example of erotica vs. porn.

In romance I;m sure the sex does not have to be XXX to fit the story and be enjoyable, because there si some emotional attachment as well.

In stroke stories, they want things like "as he plunged his hard throbbing prick into my tight little box"

depends on not only the reader, but the writer and category.

I've read a couple of your stories, and I've also read a few by Boxlicker.

Now there's your apples and oranges and erotica vs Porn.

It may be an example of erotica v. porn. But that doesn't mean there can't be a little emotional buildup/payoff of some sort in porn. And I've never thought I was a porn writer, or sometimes even an erotica writer.

And yes, almost every question here about writing and stories is answered with "It depends on ..." and there are a lot of things it depends on.

 

[lovecraft68]

It may be an example of erotica v. porn. But that doesn't mean there can't be a little emotional buildup/payoff of some sort in porn. And I've never thought I was a porn writer, or sometimes even an erotica writer.

And yes, almost every question here about writing and stories is answered with "It depends on ..." and there are a lot of things it depends on.

Trust me, there is no emotional pay off in Boxlicker's stories.

But they're good and they're fun and he does very well here. But if I was called out to pick out a "porn" writer he would be my first pick.

For me, erotica is simply how we got there than the act itself. The majority of guys I have spoken to(the ones that read anyway as most guys watch their porn rather than read it) go for the stroke stories.

I'm an exception and if the build up, both physical and emotional is good, the sex doesn't have to be lights out for me to like it.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

I recently discovered -- and I know how it may sound -- that if the sex is important to my story for whatever reason, then it's easier to write it.

For me, erotica is simply how we got there than the act itself.

I'm all about what PennLady had to say - the sex is easier to write if it's telling the story, illuminating the characters' growth/change.

Call it porn v erotica, I don't care, but I believe I write some damn explicit crap that virtually requires the sex to advance the story. And I wouldn't elevate any of my submissions above the level of stroke fiction.

My opinion is, if explicitly describing the sex is optional to the story, then you didn't write a sex story. I won't say all my stories reach this bar, but here's one that I think works as an example: Dorm Room Hypnosis - here's the synopsis: Tiffany makes Alexis a believer in hypnosis.

Admittedly, it's a stroke story. Two hot coeds are messing around with each other. It's pandering to the male Id. The characters are shallow and straight out of central casting. I don't think I even described how Alexis or Tiffany look. But I think the story has a nice twist to it. Do the characters grow/change in the course of the story? I believe so. Are their motivations as people revealed and exposed? I believe so. I happen to like how Tiffany exploits Alexis - which has value and meaning, creates a real story and has real implications for the characters by the time they are done.

Do I believe it's great writing? Nah, it's fucking stroke story, okay? But I think it fits my contention that it requires the sex being described for the story to exist. I struggle most when I'm writing a by-the-numbers sex scene for purient interests without the sexual activity described having impact on the characters involved.

 

[sr71plt]

You may not really have a problem. Erotica is about the buildup and emotional responses. So, if you want to be writing erotica rather than porn, you may already be set up OK--and then what Brandie69 posted--less is more--would be just fine. For erotica, you don't even have to get into the tab A/slot B description. Flip from penetration and the welcoming--and go to postcoital mellowing down.

I think SSS is right on about your "hey what?" complexity of phrasing too--here and elsewhere. You do want your terminology to be fresh and arresting--even amusing; you don't want it to bog down or cause head scratching.

 

[MaxSebastian]

I think you're looking at the sex in the wrong way - that there should be a build-up in which we find out about the characters and see how they flirt and interact, and then when they've somehow passed the attraction test, everything stops for The Sex.

Why stop the build-up when they're ready to really get it on?

Keep going! Keep the two lovers talking, keep the dialogue going - if they're new lovers, they're still finding out about each other even as tab A goes into tab B, still discovering things about sex. If they're not new lovers, perhaps there's still new things they can react to and find out about. Tensions to resolve or set up even as they're getting to the penetration.

Maybe they're having sex in a risky place, and as it's happening there's the fear to deal with. Maybe they're crossing boundaries - adultery, forbidden sex, taboo sex - as they're doing it. They can mentally deal with the issues as they're having sex, or as can be hotter still, discussing th issues as they're having sex.

There's lots of ways to add interest to the sex, and then the actual description of the sex can intermingle with the dialogue and emotion, and you don't need to be a poet to create great sex scenes.

Also - what turns you on about the sex part? Whatever it is, that should be what you write about. You should be writing about what arouses you, and enjoying doing so as you are writing. It's got to be a mistake to write it if it seems a 'chore'.

 

[Feotakahari]

Oh, I forgot I posted this!

I tend to think of my sex scenes rather like fight scenes in superhero movies, so I sometimes include sex scenes that, strictly speaking, don't really need to be there (like how a lot of the fight scenes in The Avengers or Hellboy 2 could have been removed without detracting from the story in any way.) In that framework, the advice to make my sex scenes more integral to the narrative works pretty well--I just need to be more of a Dark Knight sort of writer.

Thanks to everyone who responded!

P.S. For everyone who didn't know where I got the line about the cattle prod from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZpxaiNV_sM

 

[MSTarot]

To me erotica gets you hot and keeps you there.

Porn gets you off, then you go see whats on TV.

If you're good at the build up to the sex, then be good at that. You don't have to have them get to homeplate ...using a blast from the past description.

Have them get interrupted. My god if I had a dollar for how many times in my life that's happen!

Dating my wife to be, she was living back at home with her parent till she could find a place to live, We were getting very hot and heavy in her bedroom. Lets just say were were less than dressed. Her mom pulls up in the driveway! A hystericaly mad scramble for clothes ensued. Once her mom got inside we were both blushing so much her mother figured it out and started to laugh. She offered to leave and drive around the block a few times.

If you can't write the sex get them close. Try getting a little further along each story. As a series this would be wonderful to read wondering when they would finally going to get there.

M.S.Tarot

 

[sethp]

I have a similar problem. My sex scenes are always too short! lol

I guess they don't have to be long. Some of my foreplay is too short too. I think I over think how to explain every detail and end up with writer's block...when simplicity works best I suppose.

 

[HeyAll]

I'm kind of the same way. Sex is my least favorite part because it can get repetitive- especially the orgasm scene if it's being described in first person.

One thing that works for me, and I'm sure it'll work for you, is to include more foreplay during sex. For instance, they might say dirty things or do dirty things while they're having sex.

 

[TinyBeth]

True. I'm only on my second story and already beating my head trying to figure out how many different variants of stroked, fondled, caressed et al I can figure out and how many iterations of each I can get away with. Cliche is the cross of the writer I suppose.

 

[Stella_Omega]

True. I'm only on my second story and already beating my head trying to figure out how many different variants of stroked, fondled, caressed et al I can figure out and how many iterations of each I can get away with. Cliche is the cross of the writer I suppose.

It is. But the thing that is more important is how the stroking feels, who gets fondled and how, whether those caresses were rough, tender or even wanted at all.

There are more reasons and emotions that can be attached to various actions, then there are actions themselves.

 

[Bramblethorn]

True. I'm only on my second story and already beating my head trying to figure out how many different variants of stroked, fondled, caressed et al I can figure out and how many iterations of each I can get away with. Cliche is the cross of the writer I suppose.

Context. Repeating a word a few times is not a huge problem as long as you're not repeating the situation. If you stroke a kitten on page 1, a woman's hair on page 2, and a shotgun on page 3, nobody's going to complain that the story is repetitive.

A bit of variation in vocabulary is good, but don't lean on the thesaurus too heavily. The last thing you want is for the reader to start thinking "oh, she's using a thesaurus".

 

[sun_sea_sky]

A bit of variation in vocabulary is good, but don't lean on the thesaurus too heavily. The last thing you want is for the reader to start thinking "oh, she's using a thesaurus".

Yeah. Sometimes when I am reading a story I think "uh oh, they are using a thesaurus". Because every sentence uses a new and original word. Unlike normal speech. Like that guy who said he was putting his love rocket into her oyster. No, they were fucking. Just like everyone else does.

 

[sr71plt]

Context. Repeating a word a few times is not a huge problem as long as you're not repeating the situation.

Beyond that, repeating a word/phrase (especially thereby establishing a rhythm) is a legitimate writing technique. Unfortunately, several who critique work here on Lit. don't seem to understand that it's a legitimate writing technique.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Well, sex is repetitious. In, out, in, out. Over and bloody over.

 

[TinyBeth]

These are good points all and thank you. Especially in a first-person story, which the one I am writing currently is, I have found some of the more flowery and descriptive language is just right out because no one would be telling the story that way even to themselves. (Unless they are a weirdo like I can be occasionally. Damn you years and years of advanced vocabulary training to pass the SAT. Lol) It has to SOUND like the person telling the story and yeah a real person IS going to repeat some of the same words and even phrases. I was concerned the tiniest bit about the comment nazis that love to rip repetition, but if we were writing just to appease the commenters on here none of us would ever get anything done.