Go little Rhody

[lovecraft68]

This would be the way RI makes news.

I know there will be varied opinions on this, and I'm not saying mine is righy, but to me this is just getting ridiculous.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/sc...her-daughter-dances-single-mom-174500262.html

I took my two girls to many of these-most of them after the divorce- and yes there were always a few girls there with an uncle or maybe the Mother's current boyfriend, but they seemed to have a good time as well.

Steve Brown has been running the ACLU forever and although he has done manygood things, I think that not everything has to be like this.

Goes back to last years little Rhody news debacle. The one, and literally one, girl who complained about a prayer banner that existed in a high school for 40 years.

Thousands wanted it left there, she wanted it down.

Guess who won?

Life is truly getting sickening.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

It must be April 1st. Oh, wait.

Banning a dance because someone doesn't have a dad? Give me a break. What about banning a dance if one girl doesn't have partner to take?

 

[lovecraft68]

It must be April 1st. Oh, wait.

Banning a dance because someone doesn't have a dad? Give me a break. What about banning a dance if one girl doesn't have partner to take?

Actually last year I went to one of those with a girl from the women's shelter my wife volunteers at. There was a point when they were full she stayed with us for a couple of months.

She has neither a mother or a father and she wanted to go to the dance so I took her.

They called it "child with partner" so this isn't quite new, but I guess some people won;t be happy until they can completely take something away from someone else.

 

[MatthewVett]

Goes back to last years little Rhody news debacle. The one, and literally one, girl who complained about a prayer banner that existed in a high school for 40 years.

Thousands wanted it left there, she wanted it down.

Guess who won?

Life is truly getting sickening.

You mean the prayer banner that violated the establishment clause of the Constitution? That prayer banner? The one that she received death threats over? Death threats like these? http://jesusfetusfajitafishsticks.blogspot.com/2012/01/ahlquist-screenshots-if-by-christian.html

I can see why a brave girl who fights for what she believes in and follows the Constitution would make you sick. The judge's decision is here, by the way: http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2012/01/11/ahlquist_decision_011112.pdf Give it a read. It's pretty enlightening, and it lays out why he ruled the way he did.

Tradition isn't an excuse for illegal actions.

 

[lovecraft68]

You mean the prayer banner that violated the establishment clause of the Constitution? That prayer banner? The one that she received death threats over? Death threats like these? http://jesusfetusfajitafishsticks.blogspot.com/2012/01/ahlquist-screenshots-if-by-christian.html

I can see why a brave girl who fights for what she believes in and follows the Constitution would make you sick. The judge's decision is here, by the way: http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2012/01/11/ahlquist_decision_011112.pdf Give it a read. It's pretty enlightening, and it lays out why he ruled the way he did.

Tradition isn't an excuse for illegal actions.

How about simply live and let live?

I mean really? This girl was so offended by a prayer she had to take it away from the people who drew strength from it?

Don't like it, don't read it and RI's a small state I know someone who knows the family.

Can you say mommy and daddy using the kid for some publicity?

Fuck, I'm a satanist and I don;t give a rats ass if my neighbors wanted to put the lord's prayer on the side of their damn house.

Takes a really cool person to take people's hope and beliefs away from them.

As for death threats? How many people died to protect things like freedom of religion in this country? Not saying its right, but two wrongs never make a right.

 

[MatthewVett]

How about simply live and let live?

I mean really? This girl was so offended by a prayer she had to take it away from the people who drew strength from it?

Don't like it, don't read it and RI's a small state I know someone who knows the family.

Can you say mommy and daddy using the kid for some publicity?

Fuck, I'm a satanist and I don;t give a rats ass if my neighbors wanted to put the lord's prayer on the side of their damn house.

Takes a really cool person to take people's hope and beliefs away from them.

It was illegal. There's an enormous amount of precedent for removing the prayer banner, and none for keeping it. It is undeniably illegal. "Live and let live" doesn't work when one side is committing a crime. Would you have a thief and his victim "live and let live?" That's just siding with the criminal. Inaction in the middle of a crime is siding with the criminal. There's not a middle ground.

What publicity are the mom and dad getting from this? Did you read the threats made against her? People published her address online. She's fucking sixteen years old. If that's the beliefs those people have, I hope they get it taken away from them.

The banner's gone, and guess what, those people still call themselves Christians, so evidently, their hopes and beliefs weren't taken away from them.

There is no legal support for leaving the banner up. The school district wasted tax payer money fighting a battle it had no hope of winning, just because some people got butt-hurt over tradition.

 

[annanova]

This would be the way RI makes news.

I know there will be varied opinions on this, and I'm not saying mine is righy, but to me this is just getting ridiculous.

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/sc...her-daughter-dances-single-mom-174500262.html

I took my two girls to many of these-most of them after the divorce- and yes there were always a few girls there with an uncle or maybe the Mother's current boyfriend, but they seemed to have a good time as well.

Steve Brown has been running the ACLU forever and although he has done manygood things, I think that not everything has to be like this.

Goes back to last years little Rhody news debacle. The one, and literally one, girl who complained about a prayer banner that existed in a high school for 40 years.

Thousands wanted it left there, she wanted it down.

Guess who won?

Life is truly getting sickening.

Oh, puh-leeze! As the eldest daughter of divorced parents, if I had wanted to go to this dance badly enough, my uncle would have come to town.

Good on you for taking the girl from the shelter.

 

[lovecraft68]

It was illegal. There's an enormous amount of precedent for removing the prayer banner, and none for keeping it. It is undeniably illegal. "Live and let live" doesn't work when one side is committing a crime. Would you have a thief and his victim "live and let live?" That's just siding with the criminal. Inaction in the middle of a crime is siding with the criminal. There's not a middle ground.

What publicity are the mom and dad getting from this? Did you read the threats made against her? People published her address online. She's fucking sixteen years old. If that's the beliefs those people have, I hope they get it taken away from them.

The banner's gone, and guess what, those people still call themselves Christians, so evidently, their hopes and beliefs weren't taken away from them.

There is no legal support for leaving the banner up. The school district wasted tax payer money fighting a battle it had no hope of winning, just because some people got butt-hurt over tradition.

How many Christians died to have the right to even pray.

There are a lot of things that are technically illegal but is there really a need to challenge it?

This wasn't about this girls beliefs it was just to see if it could be done.

The parents put their kid in jeopardy to use her for their own platform.

What they underestimated is people's faith.

That and many people being sick and tired of people who do shit because "They can"

I won;t argue this. The parents are asshats and its a shame they pushed their daughter into this.

If I saw them on the street I'd follow them around reciting the our father because for right now I still have freedom of speech and "I can"

 

[Brandie69]

I'm right on the fence on the dance thing.

One part of me says that we have many traditions that feel warm and fuzzy in our hearts until someone points out that they are hurtful to people, and not just to people with glass jaws.

Another part of me thinks of the South Park episode where everyone in town got to say which part of the holiday tradition offended them. I don't remember the outcome, but I think Hankey the Christmas Poo might have been the only thing left by the end.

The better solution here is to have the dance and to make it clear that anyone can attend (even if they're not willing to cross-dress, although that might be fun, too).

 

[MatthewVett]

How many Christians died to have the right to even pray.

There are a lot of things that are technically illegal but is there really a need to challenge it?

This wasn't about this girls beliefs it was just to see if it could be done.

The parents put their kid in jeopardy to use her for their own platform.

What they underestimated is people's faith.

That and many people being sick and tired of people who do shit because "They can"

I won;t argue this. The parents are asshats and its a shame they pushed their daughter into this.

If I saw them on the street I'd follow them around reciting the our father because for right now I still have freedom of speech and "I can"

You can't argue this. Yes, there is a need to challenge blatantly illegal actions. Because if you don't, people ask, "There are a lot of things that are technically illegal but is there really a need to challenge it?" Are you seriously arguing that illegal actions should be ignored if they hurt the feelings of the over-privileged hegemony? No atheist banner was put up. All that was done was that a flagrant violation of the constitution was taken down. Would you challenge illegal search and seizure? How about if the government quartered soldiers in your house? Would you challenge it if your freedom of speech were taken away from you?

The girl didn't do it because she could. She did it because it was illegal. What about the judge who ruled in this case? Did he agree with her because he could? What about the dozens of similar cases? The Friendly Atheist keeps track of a lot of them if you want to search. Do all those judges and all those people do it because they can?

Whose faith did they underestimate? The bigoted assholes who sent death threats to a sixteen year old girl? The people who wasted their kids' education money on fighting a legal battle that any lawyer could have told them they would lose?

Maybe you don't get the difference between neutrality and oppression, but Christians can still pray. They just can't force their beliefs on other people using government resources. Hang a prayer banner in the church, where it belongs. Hang it in your house. But you can't hang it in a public school. Can you really not get that? There's nothing in the establishment clause that says 20 people must be offended before it's illegal. It's just illegal.

You could follow them and pray all you want. That's freedom of speech. No one is trying to take that away from anyone.

 

[CeasarBoobage]

There are a lot of things that are made illegal just because it offended someone.
The vocal minority gets lots of attention from everyone, and with enough bleeding hearts rushing over to comfort them, they get laws passed that shelters those people with glass jaws.

And yes, doing an "illegal" thing because the law is retarded and should be struck down is a good thing. Really. If enough people stand up to the stupid laws, it's a good way to get those stupid laws removed.

The people who insist on thrusting themselves into the spotlight should expect a backlash. Yes really. They make a stink about something everyone else is in favor of, and they expect everyone to send them flowers saying "Thanks for taking away something 10000 people like just because 2 of you don't like it. We love pleasing you." Um, maybe they should have thought about that a little more.


As for the RI situation.... Ugh. I'm disgusted at them. It's too bad that little girl didn't have a 'dad' person to go with her, but that is NO reason to take away from everyone else at the school.

It's little pieces of adversity like this that helps build strong people. When we WORK THROUGH IT, not when we spaz out and go the wrong direction. We, as a nation, work so hard to take away everything that could possibly hurt someone's feelings, that if we were to work half as hard in order to help people get over problems and be stronger because of them, we would be infinitely better off. Plus we would have more resources (time, money, etc) to do better things. But no. We have to screw up the lives and traditions of the masses to placate the feelings of the vocal minority.

Pathetic.

 

[MatthewVett]

Am I seriously debating people on whether or not it's a good thing that the constitution stops the government from establishing a state religion? You are kidding me...

 

[sr71plt]

I get the impression we're being visited from the GB this evening.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Hmm, perhaps I should have read the whole article. I didn't realize it was something to do with religion.

I can see that if you organize a "father/daughter" dance it might work against children who don't have fathers, and are not allowed to take their mothers (or a male relative other than their father).

Recently I was invited to a "Mothers Lunch" which was being held for my daughter's year level. I had been separately invited because of some additional work I had done for the school, but I queried whether a "father" would be welcome at a "mothers" lunch. After a bit of a delay (evidently various emails flew back and forth) I was told "of course you are welcome".

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that your qualifications for attending a parent lunch (or a dance for that matter) are whether or not you have a penis? Haven't we moved on from this?

So I went to the mothers lunch with my wife. That was fine, sort of. None of the other mothers spoke more than a couple of words to me, so I know not to go to another one. Obviously I had done something wrong by attending (bearing in mind I was invited, I didn't force my way in).

 

[Cruel2BKind]

In the OP article, they said that the main reason they went through with it was because of gender discrimination.

Why couldn't they have just found some neutral event? Or hell, EVERYBODY can play basketball, or EVERYBODY can go to the dance.

 

[Boxlicker101]

How many Christians died to have the right to even pray.

There are a lot of things that are technically illegal but is there really a need to challenge it?

This wasn't about this girls beliefs it was just to see if it could be done.

The parents put their kid in jeopardy to use her for their own platform.

What they underestimated is people's faith.

That and many people being sick and tired of people who do shit because "They can"

I won;t argue this. The parents are asshats and its a shame they pushed their daughter into this.

If I saw them on the street I'd follow them around reciting the our father because for right now I still have freedom of speech and "I can"

I don't know how many Christians have died to have the right to prayer. However, I would be willing to bet that "Christians" have killed more than that many because they didn't like the way the victims prayed or didn't pray.

This girl was actually raised as a Christian but became an Aethiest when she saw all the fallacies being preached. I did something like that, but I never had much religious upbringing and, if I did have it, I would have foresaken it by now.

What makes you think the parents pushed their daughter into doing anything?

 

[sun_sea_sky]

There's definitely a lot of anger in the air tonight. Is it the presidential elections? Global warming? Not enough sex?

 

[Kurokami]

Am I seriously debating people on whether or not it's a good thing that the constitution stops the government from establishing a state religion? You are kidding me...

You're on the internet, dude; are you really surprised that an argument started?

And I've never been really clear on why people use this "the majority likes it so what right do you piffling two people have to cause a fuss?" argument, either; minority action is kind of how status quo challenging movements get started. There was a time when the majority was into segregation, are we supposed to retain that under the same reasoning?

"We're all fine with it so leave it alone," isn't okay, it's social laziness. And fighting to make the government enforce its own constitution is not whining or being a bitch; it's fucking requiring that the country live up to its own standards. And if the faith of those Christian children is really that compromised by the loss of a banner in a public school, it must not have been so strong in the first place, no?

 

[sun_sea_sky]

The relevance of all of this to authoring erotica eludes me.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

The relevance of all of this to authoring erotica eludes me.

You kidding?

I enjoy this. I like to debate about more than sex. It's interesting to gauge opinions. The opinions on this site differ greatly form the opinions of my family, on less sexual websites, or from my friends. I like to see the political opinions of people as much as I can.

It helps me feel slightly informed.

 

[3113]

I won;t argue this. The parents are asshats and its a shame they pushed their daughter into this.

From what I read, no they didn't. Why would any parents push their kid into being harassed and abused? And this is from the Judge's decision:

"Families entrust public schools with the
education of their children, but condition
their trust on the understanding that the
classroom will not purposely be used to
advance religious views that may conflict
with the private beliefs of the student and
his or her family. Students in such
institutions are impressionable and their
attendance is involuntary."

Imagine if the people arguing in favor of this banner had heard about a Christian kid in a public school where the majority of parents were Islamic asking that an Islamic prayer that started "Praised be Allah, may he..." etc. be taken down from a cafeteria wall. I would bet you money that all these good Christians who supported their prayer banner wouldn't say, "He should ignore it, live and let live, etc." They would all say: "How brave of him to argue for freedom of religion in his school, rather than being coerced, however subtly, by the school, to be Islamic." In fact, they'd probably head in buses down to his state and town to support him and his right to get that banner taken down.

Most of all, however, I wonder, what would you, personally, would say if someone on the internet said that they were going to follow your daughter around reciting prayers, trying to "teach her a lesson" about freedom of speech. Would you really want any daughter subjected to that by some other parent for any reason? I hope your daughter never gets harassed as this girl did--by her peers, by adults, by the school she went to, for no better reason that that she disagreed with some stupid "tradition." If however, something like this does happen to her over something like this, maybe you'll know how wrong it was for you to even think about doing such a thing to another man's daughter.

Shame on you for thinking like an asshole rather than a father.

 

[4glory6]

From what I read, no they didn't. Why would any parents push their kid into being harassed and abused?

Oh, there are parents who do it. Look at the photos of parades on conterversial issues of the little kids not old enough to make their own decisions hauled out to march with their parents--often carrying posters they aren't even old enough to read.

On the religious issue, we could go back to Madeline Murray in Baltimore, using her son to promote her athiest agenda.

 

[MatthewVett]

Oh, there are parents who do it. Look at the photos of parades on conterversial issues of the little kids not old enough to make their own decisions hauled out to march with their parents--often carrying posters they aren't even old enough to read.

On the religious issue, we could go back to Madeline Murray in Baltimore, using her son to promote her athiest agenda.

I really does sicken me when people use kids as props, but that's not what's happening with Jessica Ahlquist. In fact, she just recently went to Chicago to speak: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...peaking-about-her-case-in-local-high-schools/ And of course, the privileged hegemony got butt-hurt.

The NY Times also had a good story about the case a while back: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/27/us/rhode-island-city-enraged-over-school-prayer-lawsuit.html?_r=1

I'm glad other people came and chimed in. I was really nonplussed by people being opposed to the establishment clause.

 

[MatthewVett]

Worth including... http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...about-the-banning-of-a-father-daughter-dance/