Global Warming: Enough is enough

[rgraham666]

I don't quite understand this complaint about 'the costs' of adjusting to global warming.

Shouldn't the business community regard this as an opportunity rather than a burden? Wouldn't turning out ecologically responsible products be a new source of profit? Wouldn't products that use less energy, and thus are cheaper to run, as well as cause less pollution be something most people would buy?

It seems to me that the money to be made for companies early into this market would at least match those of Microsoft's.

Oh wait. But that would cause damage to the existing industrial infrastructure. Those are the people who would lose money and jobs.

I'm afraid I don't understand the objections on these grounds either. My understanding is that 'creative destruction' is accepted as a major facet of modern capitalism. New technology pushes aside the old.

Perhaps it's just the standard hypocrisy of humans we're seeing here. People are very often in favour of something until it's their tit in the wringer.

 

[shereads]

I don't quite understand this complaint about 'the costs' of adjusting to global warming.

Shouldn't the business community regard this as an opportunity rather than a burden? Wouldn't turning out ecologically responsible products be a new source of profit? Wouldn't products that use less energy, and thus are cheaper to run, as well as cause less pollution be something most people would buy?

Using less energy before you've squeezed every last cent of profit out of the planet's supply of fossil fuels means, well, not squeezing every last cent of profit out of the planet's supply of fossil fuels.

As it happens, the people who get to decide what is and is not scientific in America are George W. Bush and co., who are joined at the hip with the oil industry. Looking to him for leadership on an issue that might adversely affect the twins' trust funds is like expecting Wile E. Coyote to organize this year's "Save the Roadrunner" fundraising drive.

Have you noticed that even now, when he's repositioning himself as the Conservation President, GWB always says we need to become independent of FOREIGN oil. As if American oil were a limitless resource, like greed and denial.

This is what gets me: sooner or later, there won't be any more fossil fuels. If we deal with that fact now rather than later, we can stem the tide of global warming as a side benefit.

As someone once said on Bill Maher's old show, "Politically Incorrect": if the U.S. had reacted to the gas shortage of the 1970's by treating alternative energy research with the same importance we put on the space race in the fifties and sixties, we'd be oil-independent by now. Putting a man on the moon within ten years seemed implausible when JFK proposed it. But we did it, and for less pressing reasons.

For some reason, there's always a profit incentive to drain away the last of a resource before getting serious about altneratives. When ecologists fought to save the last old-grown forest in the Pacific Northwest, they were blamed for putting loggers out of work - forgetting that those loggers would have to look elsewhere for work once the forest was gone.

The right's reaction to the global warming debate is similarly short-sighted, and a lot mnore dangerous. There's only so much oil and natural gas left in the ground; to argue against change because our economy relies on those resourses is to pretend that they'll be there forever - or to admit that the future doesn't matter, as long as we take what we can for ourselves.

 

[rgraham666]

Using less energy before you've squeezed every last cent of profit out of the planet's supply of fossil fuels means, well, not squeezing every last cent of profit out of the planet's supply of fossil fuels.

As it happens, the people who get to decide what is and is not scientific in America are George W. Bush and co., who are joined at the hip with the oil industry. Looking to him for leadership on an issue that might adversely affect the twins' trust funds is like expecting Wile E. Coyote to organize this year's "Save the Roadrunner" fundraising drive.

Have you noticed that even now, when he's repositioning himself as the Conservation President, GWB always says we need to become independent of FOREIGN oil. As if American oil were a limitless resource, like greed and denial.

That is one of the things overlooked in modern economics, human nature. Oh, and ethics. Neither is quantifiable therefore they are ignored.

 

[Liar]

...only if man made global warming turns out to be true. Correct? Otherwise it costs nothing.

In the words of Clint:

So, the question you have to ask yourself is, do you feel lucky?

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Have you noticed that even now, when he's repositioning himself as the Conservation President, GWB always says we need to become independent of FOREIGN oil. As if American oil were a limitless resource, like greed and denial.

You obviously don't understand, She. Any oil pumped, imported, refined and sold by an American company in which Bush & Co have substantial investment is concidered "DOMESTIC" oil.

 

[shereads]

You obviously don't understand, She. Any oil pumped, imported, refined and sold by an American company in which Bush & Co have substantial investment is concidered "DOMESTIC" oil.

True. And domestic oil is good for you, like soy oil, but without the sissy factor.

 

[Pure]

hi lucifer.

that was a good speech and i sympathize. but i think you have to distinguish the business community from the right crazies. i think the american business community will come around.

the right wing, you have to remember, are like nazis: they deal in symbolism and sentiments like 'love the Fatherland' 'love the Furhrer'. there is hatred of the chosen enemies: since there are no commies in the US, it's the "liberals."

such lunacy only capture the masses in times of crisis, real or manufactured. PERHAPS this terrorist thing will lose some of its force and the American will drift back towards the center; maybe the start was in the last election.

i think rg is right that there's money to be made; industry in Sweden hasn't come to a standstill; Finland is a leader in high tech and IT development. someone may get as rich as Gates by bringing new "Green Service Stations" with pumps for vegetable oil for the new vehicles.

the redesign of cities is a colossal undertaking, surely to create new titans of 'construction', some honest, some not. what will it take for a city like Chicago, New York, or Toronto to pack in 5 times the people, in a healthy way.

---
PS There was a famous architect of 20 years back who specialized in design of high density structures for cities--anyone remember his name?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

In the words of Clint:

So, the question you have to ask yourself is, do you feel lucky?

I have a 50/50 chance that global warming has nothing to do with us and what we do or don't do.

I have 100% chance that global warming is ocurring now and into the forseeable future.

And no matter what we(man) do, we will be unable to stop it as the cycles of this planet blunder ahead.

 

[sammy 2006]

keeping things simple!!

I'm no scientist, so this is just the musings of a bored brain - we know whats causing global warming - greenhouse gases- think I've got hold of that theory(kinda) so we can put two electrodes into water H2O and pass an electric current through it and split it into hydrogen gas and Oxygen. we know how a tree absorbes CO2 and turns it into Oxygen.

We (someone) knows how to split an atom!!!!

Why havent we heard about any scientists that are bottling CO2 doing their sciencey bit on it and splitting it into Oxygen(good gas) and carbon! and finding a use for the carbon product - aren't diamond made of it (after alot of work nd time and heat etc!)

so is that too simple an idea for the governments to think about. ---here mr government scientist man, split the carbon dioxide find a use for the carbon and hey presto theres a bit of a bonus (in millions) and a prize named after a mr Nobel!!

or is that just too simple an idea??????

 

[Liar]

I have a 50/50 chance that global warming has nothing to do with us and what we do or don't do.

Oh man, I wanna hit a casino with you. You live by a whole different scale of odds than the rest of the universe.

 

[Guest]

Oh man, I wanna hit a casino with you. You live by a whole different scale of odds than the rest of the universe.

*stalk*

 

[Liar]

Why havent we heard about any scientists that are bottling CO2 doing their sciencey bit on it and splitting it into Oxygen(good gas) and carbon! and finding a use for the carbon product - aren't diamond made of it (after alot of work nd time and heat etc!)

Simple answer: Doing that on the scale that is needed takes a fuckload of energy. Which we kindof don't have.

Also, oxygen isn't good gas. It's actually bad gas. It's one of the most dangerous gasses there is to make, store and handle. It's what makes stuff burn.

 

[Liar]

*stalk*

Oh all right, you can come along too.

 

[Guest]

Oh all right, you can come along too.

you rock.
i promise to be ultra well behaved.

 

[Liar]

...but only if you're dressed like that AV. I need something to distract peoples' attention while I swap chip stacks.

 

[Guest]

...but only if you're dressed like that AV. I need something to distract peoples' attention while I swap chip stacks.

hell...you've got tit. *smirk*

you make sure to hide your nuts.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Damn!!!! I so wanted to post something about the Iditorod starting today with Jeff King, defending champ, running in first place and Susan Butcher DEAD last. But I won't.

But I hope the race finishes before all the snow melts from global warming.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Oh man, I wanna hit a casino with you. You live by a whole different scale of odds than the rest of the universe.

No, global warming is going to happen. The sun is going through a stage of greater activity causing it to give off more heat than it has in the past century, causing the the earth to heat up.

As the same thing is happing on Mars, where there are no humans - or maybe all those gas gusseling rovers are causing the greenhouse gases there - I guess we will be going through a warming period.

The temp on earth has gone up one degree in the past century.

 

[sammy 2006]

methods

Simple answer: Doing that on the scale that is needed takes a fuckload of energy. Which we kindof don't have.

Also, oxygen isn't good gas. It's actually bad gas. It's one of the most dangerous gasses there is to make, store and handle. It's what makes stuff burn.

why do we have to store it???? thats what we want back in the atmosphere to replace the CO2 isnt it - release it and restore the balance . and if global warmings really happening then why not use a lot of energy to restore the balance.

Why not insist on the exhaust gases from cars are stored in a seperate tank in the car and then when yo fill up with petrol - you empty the exhaust? then 'filter' that?
just an idea - im not a scientist!

And some of the other ideas that serious scientists are looking into seem ridiculous too, one being seriously considered is like a big sun glasses screen between the sun and the earth involving 30,000,000 million paper thin glass sheets floating - when they did the stats they worked out it would take 3,000 space shuttle flights to do it - and its still an option thats being considered cos it may lower the average temperature by 3 degrees!! - seems like a hell of a lot of energy just sending them up there besides manufacturing the glass- and all the rest of the expense!

like i say - im not a scientist - just an idea.