Girlfriend works in massage parlor, how to deal?

[TongueTyler]

I also visit web sites organized by men reviewing and discussing escorts, massage parlors etc. Every now and again

Eric 623,
You think you might be able to pass on those web sites. I would like to view them.

Oh Yeah! I agree run like the wind. Hot and sexual not a fulfilling relationship. If she is just a fuck toy to you then hey whatever.

This does not say I do not support women working at such establishments. Obvious we need them too in society?

 

[Lust Engine]

As a woman with many, many friends in the sex for money industry, I won't tell you that you should leave her. But I have some questions:

Why do you HAVE to be okay with it? There are other options for jobs out there.

Is there a reason that she needs that much money? Why? What does she spend it on? Answering those questions can tell quite a bit about a person's character.

How do you feel about her having sex with other men? When she gives you a BJ, you think of it as sex, right? Imagine her giving that BJ to a string of different men. How does that make you feel? Are you okay with her not being monogamous to you?

And I'm going to ask this again, in a different way, because I don't understand this part. Why do you have to be the one to change your attitude? Why can't SHE look at YOUR problem and fix it by leaving that job? Why do you have to put up with something that bothers you?

Just my musings...

S.

And VERY good musings they are (as always)!

You've got options as does she. This is America where you're not bound to work at a certain place. I hope she realizes she can do something else to make a living- something legal perhaps?

 

[sonicdefender]

Wow. Lots of advise. I don't know how much I will follow, but I do apprieciate it. I will just try to adress everyones points and make a few of my own.

First of all, the fact that it is illegal does not bother me at all. I do not think that it is immoral, and immoral and illegal are to very different things. It is just performing a service for money. No one is hurt, there is no victim. I think the reason it is illegal has more to do with old religious values than right or wrong. Besides, the chance of her being arrested is very slim. Neither of us has ever heard about a massage parlor being busted around here. The cops are more concerned about street prostitutes, where some people really are being victimized. I don't know if this is the case in the US.

I'm not worried about her getting beat up. She is not working the street, getting into strange mens cars, or going to their hotel rooms or houses. She works in a massage parlor, which is a safe and secure enviroment, and never works alone. I think a woman working alone in a gas station is at greater risk.

I might have given the impression that this is something I am not talking about with my girl. I am not just stewing about it, I am telling her when it is bothering me, and why I think that it is bothering me. If I really can not handle it, she will quit.

Everyone seems to bring up disease. I'm not going to get into the details, but she takes every precaution, and does not fuck. I would say her chances of catching anything are very remote. However, I know that it is possible. The way I see it, everything has some risk. I'm a welder and run the risk of being poisoned, losing fingers or toes, or even being crushed to death. I don't quit, and she doesn't ask me to. She trusts me to work safe, just like I trust her.

I think that it is true that these feellings are irrational. This job does not mean that she loves me any less. Like Wierd Herold said though, we have a built in instinct against sharing, and that is what I am dealling with now. It was stupid of me to think that I would not have to deal with those instincts.

I do think that jealousy can be worked through. The longer she has this job, the less it bugs me. She is very open about about her job, and answers any questions I have. She tells me about some of the wacky people that she deals with, and has some funny stories. I have also figured out what I do not want to hear about, and she doesn't talk about those things.

As to weither or not she is telling me the truth, she is. In any relationship you have to be able to trust the other person. I do not think that this situation is any different, just because of the line of work she is in. Also, if she wanted to lie to me, she would have sugar coated alot of the things she has told me, and she hasn't.

How does she spend her money? Is that a round about way of asking if she is a junkie? Anyway, she is not, she spends it on normal stuff like clothes, going out, and student loans (she is not the only girl doing this to pay of student loans). I have to admit I am enjoying her having lots of money, what guy wouldn't? It is nice having her taking me out for dinner and spoiling me, but I would not let that cloud my judgement.


Anyway, I think I have written lots for now. I hope I don't seem to defensive, and I do respect everyones point of view. Except for emerald_eyed, you are just mean. Thanks alot everybody!

 

[Succulent-one]

YUCK

Let me make this simple. Yuck! Get a new girl friend. I wouldn't wait one more day!

 

[Lust Engine]

I guess part of my concerns for you are that since she is technically performing an illegal act, what if (and even though you claim the odds are slim) the cops finally do decide to bust her? That jail time would do some serious damage to any long term plans you might have with her.

And speaking of long term plans... how long do you really think she'll be doing this??

To me there are just too many fears associated with her job that would scare the shit outta me. I'd be long gone but that's my opinion- obviously you see something in her that's worthy. I just want to point out to you those infamous What Ifs.

 

[sonicdefender]

Wow. Lots of advise. I don't know how much I will follow, but I do apprieciate it. I will just try to adress everyones points and make a few of my own.

First of all, the fact that it is illegal does not bother me at all. I do not think that it is immoral, and immoral and illegal are to very different things. It is just performing a service for money. No one is hurt, there is no victim. I think the reason it is illegal has more to do with old religious values than right or wrong. Besides, the chance of her being arrested is very slim. Neither of us has ever heard about a massage parlor being busted around here. The cops are more concerned about street prostitutes, where some people really are being victimized. I don't know if this is the case in the US.

I'm not worried about her getting beat up. She is not working the street, getting into strange mens cars, or going to their hotel rooms or houses. She works in a massage parlor, which is a safe and secure enviroment, and never works alone. I think a woman working alone in a gas station is at greater risk.

I might have given the impression that this is something I am not talking about with my girl. I am not just stewing about it, I am telling her when it is bothering me, and why I think that it is bothering me. If I really can not handle it, she will quit.

Everyone seems to bring up disease. I'm not going to get into the details, but she takes every precaution, and does not fuck. I would say her chances of catching anything are very remote. However, I know that it is possible. The way I see it, everything has some risk. I'm a welder and run the risk of being poisoned, losing fingers or toes, or even being crushed to death. I don't quit, and she doesn't ask me to. She trusts me to work safe, just like I trust her.

I think that it is true that these feellings are irrational. This job does not mean that she loves me any less. Like Wierd Herold said though, we have a built in instinct against sharing, and that is what I am dealling with now. It was stupid of me to think that I would not have to deal with those instincts.

I do think that jealousy can be worked through. The longer she has this job, the less it bugs me. She is very open about about her job, and answers any questions I have. She tells me about some of the wacky people that she deals with, and has some funny stories. I have also figured out what I do not want to hear about, and she doesn't talk about those things.

As to weither or not she is telling me the truth, she is. In any relationship you have to be able to trust the other person. I do not think that this situation is any different, just because of the line of work she is in. Also, if she wanted to lie to me, she would have sugar coated alot of the things she has told me, and she hasn't.

How does she spend her money? Is that a round about way of asking if she is a junkie? Anyway, she is not, she spends it on normal stuff like clothes, going out, and student loans (she is not the only girl doing this to pay of student loans). I have to admit I am enjoying her having lots of money, what guy wouldn't? It is nice having her taking me out for dinner and spoiling me, but I would not let that cloud my judgement.


Anyway, I think I have written lots for now. I hope I don't seem to defensive, and I do respect everyones point of view. Except for emerald_eyed, you are just mean. Thanks alot everybody!

 

[Eric623]

From what I understand paying for extras in a massage parlor in Canada is tolerated if not legal, so she isn't taking a risk in getting busted. The US is one of the very few countries that keeps prostitution illegal and aggressively enforces the laws. In some countries , like Belgium for instance, only street walking is illegal. Sex for pay is tolerated and controlled in the red light districts. Americans have a hard time understanding that sex is a natural act, and that it's better to act on natural urges rather than burying the fustrations in our heads. We bemoan the seemingly endless cases of child molestations carried out by teachers and priests, yet we deprive people of a legitimate way to act on those urges with a concenting adult in a win-win situation. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a mate, let alone a mate who shares your exact sexual libido. Our concept of meeting the person of your dreams, falling maddly in love and living the rest of your lives in bliss, sexual or otherwise is a fairy tale, plain and simple. That is why prostitution is the oldest profession, and no matter how many laws are passed and no matter how many jealous wives are upset, it will always be with us; and serving a very necessary function.

Now that I've got that off my chest let me say that the women who have given me massages are the sweetest, caring and most genuine women I have been with. So give the young lady in question here a break. Yes some become jaded after a while, there are lots of jerks out there who do not know how to treat a lady, especially one who has just given you so much of her life, if only for an hour. I do believe that it is the process of constantly giving at work coupled with the independent life style and a cash only economy that causes trouble at home. As I've mentioned in my previoius post, most of these relationships run into trouble, however these were customers who started dating after the girl was in the business for a while. Your situation sounds a little different, best of luck.

 

[lovechild27]

Anyway, she is not, she spends it on normal stuff like clothes, going out, and studen

I hate it when people use the...Im in the sex industry to pay for school excuse. I am in school..I am paying loans...I dont have to pimp my services out to do it.

Having a contagious std on your mouth or hands and loosing a finger arent in the same ballpark...sores from stds arent just on the shaft of the penis. (like someone said above) to think it isnt a big risk is just ignorant...despite taking precautions.

I dont know where you live but in Az they started busting these places left and right out of no where...a lot of people went to jail for a long time...not just for owning them but working for them as well.

Anyway...I wish you luck with this. I think its screwed up and your gf is pretty fucked up for wanting to do this with other guys...but no reason you shouldnt be happy together...

 

[sheath]

How does she spend her money? Is that a round about way of asking if she is a junkie? Anyway, she is not, she spends it on normal stuff like clothes, going out, and student loans (she is not the only girl doing this to pay of student loans). I have to admit I am enjoying her having lots of money, what guy wouldn't? It is nice having her taking me out for dinner and spoiling me, but I would not let that cloud my judgement.


Anyway, I think I have written lots for now. I hope I don't seem to defensive, and I do respect everyones point of view. Except for emerald_eyed, you are just mean. Thanks alot everybody!

Whoops...I'm sorry if it seems like I was implying she was a junkie. I'm not! If I wanted to ask if she were, I would have just asked.

My point was...I have known one particular woman who had to have the best designer clothes, the nicest and newest car, and eat at the fanciest restaurants. She went through money that would make a corporate executive envious. It was ridiculous. When her job didn't make enough money (and she made quite a bit), she turned to stripping. That would have been fine and dandy, if it had only gone that far. But she went on to have sex with different guys, for a hundred bucks a pop. All to drive that brand-new Lexus. She admitted this, and damned if there weren't a LOT of girls out there just like her.

She was shallow as hell. She wanted nothing but the finer things life had to offer, and she wanted an easy way to get them. THAT was my point. Looking at someone's financial lifestyle is a sure way of telling what kind of person resides behind the pocketbook.

You said 'she spends it on normal stuff like clothes, going out, and student loans...'. Okay. Well, are those things items that she HAS to have? Can she have those same things working in a nice office, doing the 9 to 5 thing without giving out sexual favors in exchange for money?

Student loans are a reality of life. Almost every person you will meet will have a loan of some kind, and student loans are the most prevalent among everyone I know. And I agree, those things are a BITCH to pay off. But there are many other job choices out there.

In my initial question, I was wondering what her financial needs versus wants says about her...as a possible reason to look at the long-term implications of staying in the relationship with her.

S.

 

[sonicdefender]

Hello everybody, this is the girlfriend in question. First of all I would like to thank everybody who has posted replies to my boyfriend's query. Although him and I do talk about this situation alot, I think that hearing what other people here have to say is helping him to clarify his thoughts. I realize that most of you are of the opinion that I am a bad person, or at least not "marriage material" and I would like to say a few words in my defense.

#1: disease
As I talk more with the other girls in this business and learn more about how to deal with it, my practice has become safer and safer. While I do use condoms and gloves, i also realize that they are not foolproof and certainly do not protect me from anything that may be on the base of the penis or the balls. Therefore, I use rubbing alcohol to clean the entire area. I suffer from no delusions that rubbing alcohol will clean away or protect me from an std. The reason I do this is because rubbing alcohol will hurt if it gets into any open sores or tiny lesions. I watch my client's faces as I do this and do not continue the session if I see signs of discomfort. Is there a risk that I may get something? Certainly, but I go to great lengths to keep that risk as minimal as possible.

#2: legal issues/safety
I'm not sure how it works in the states, but here the concern is to keep girls off the streets. Vice comes into the establishments here frequently. They make sure that we are keeping a low profile, ie: no soliciting at the door, and that we are safe. They know what we do and come in to warn us about what is happening in the city, give us photos of known "bad johns" in the area and ask us for descriptions of men that we have had any problems with so that they can pass them along to other studios.
While I know of some studio owners that have been busted, this is usually due to not declaring taxes. I don't know of any girls that have been busted while working out of a legitimate studio. A girl would have to be stupid, strung out, and desperate for money to get busted here. Also, the punishment here is a fine, not jail time. As for my safety, I have already mentioned the efforts that vice makes to keep us aware of bad clients. We also have security guards that patrol the outside of the building, panic buttons to alert security and the police as well as our own gut instincts that we all listen to very carefully. If I ever have a bad feeling about a client, I don't take him. Period.

#3: my personality/lifestyle
I am not fucked up, crazy, emotionally unstable, delusional, coarse or mean. I do this as a means to an end. I know that there are other ways to make a living as I have had reams of jobs that I have been good at. Unfortunately they are all very low paying jobs and the thought of spending years and years doing jobs I hate, barely scraping by, working long hours just to pay my rent while having to decide whether I should get some sleep cause I haven't had any in days or whether I should finish that paper that's due in the morning depresses me. I have four more years of school to complete and when I am finished school, I am finished this job. I am not spending my money like a madwoman. I have lived in poverty my entire life and I fully understand the value of a dollar. I'm not saying I'm a saint, it does feel good to be able to walk into a store that doesn't have the words 'value' or 'used' above it and know I can afford to buy something nice for myself or my boyfriend, but the majority of my money goes towards paying off debt and saving up for tuition so that i don't have to keep getting loans. I don't own a car, I don't drink champagne, I don't wear fur, I don't do any of the things that people picture women who have alot of money doing. I'm not a stereotype, I'm a person. I think some people have the impression that I ran into this headlong without putting any thought into it or talking to my boyfriend about it. This is not so. I know some girls who work in massage and I spoke to them about what their job entails, the risks, the money, their relationships with the people in their lives and I thought about it for over a year. I talked to my boyfriend about it and we weighed out the pro's and con's and decided that this could work for us. I would NEVER have taken this job if he were not okay with it. We talk about how both of us are feeling frequently and he knows that I will quit the moment it becomes too much for him to handle. I would rather live in poverty with him than be rich without him. I made a decision that alot of people would not make and cannot fathom. We are all different and I hope that this helps some people here to see the human side of me rather than a stereotypical, materialistic, diseased bimbo.

 

[sheath]

Wow.

First of all, thank you for responding to the many questions that have been posed on this particular thread.

And secondly, I'm impressed with your candor and willingness to explain to the rest of us without flying off the handle. I know it must have taken quite a bit of fortitude to do that. That alone speaks well of your character.

Finally...It's obvious this is something you do not take lightly. And it is even more obvious that you and your boyfriend have thought this through quite extensively.

So...I'm backing out of this thread now, with a smile and my best wishes. Good luck to you both!

S.

 

[peachykeen]

Look, you're both adults, you do what you think is best.

At the end of the day though, dude, the thing is, your girl puts other guys' dicks in her mouth for money. You can dress it all up and rationalise it all you like, but that's the bottom line. Doesn't make her 'bad' or 'wrong' or anything, but personally it's not something I would ever be able to be OK with, if it was my situation to deal with. But, if that's the way you and she want to live, that's fine.

I do have to wonder though, you are talking about marriage and family and all that - tell me, will this be a career option you'll be just all OK fine and dandy with your son/daughter choosing someday too? I'm not trying to imply that 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' or anything like that, I'm just saying, if you think about your own precious child that you will someday hold in your arms, can you be alright with the idea that someday they too could be engaged in this line of work, and that that would be fine with you? Because your girlfriend is someone else's baby, isn't she? How do her parents feel about her job?

 

[SexyChele]

I talked to my boyfriend about it and we weighed out the pro's and con's and decided that this could work for us. I would NEVER have taken this job if he were not okay with it. We talk about how both of us are feeling frequently and he knows that I will quit the moment it becomes too much for him to handle. I would rather live in poverty with him than be rich without him.

Makes me wonder. You say if your boyfriend has problems with what you do, you will quit. And stated this in his opening thread:

I wonder if anyone out there has any advise for me. My girlfriend recently got a job at a massage parlour and I've kind of been feeling jealous and irational about it. She asked me before she got the job and I thought I'd be fine with it, but it has been bothering me.

He started this thread, seeking help from total and complete strangers on how to deal with this because he's having issues. And you think he doesn't have a problem?

Interesting.

Ah, well. I've my own life to live. Good luck with yours.

 

[dollface007]

First of all, i wanted to say thank you to SD's girl for replying. I appreciate it. Now i'm just puzzled b/c he came here asking for advice on how to deal with your profession but all he does is defend your decision and talk about how irrational he is. I just don't get that. I don't. From the way i see it, his feelings are completely rational and i bet you think they are too.


Second, to re: Eric623's post:

The US is one of the very few countries that keeps prostitution illegal and aggressively enforces the laws. In some countries , like Belgium for instance, only street walking is illegal. Sex for pay is tolerated and controlled in the red light districts. Americans have a hard time understanding that sex is a natural act, and that it's better to act on natural urges rather than burying the fustrations in our heads. We bemoan the seemingly endless cases of child molestations carried out by teachers and priests, yet we deprive people of a legitimate way to act on those urges with a concenting adult in a win-win situation. Not everybody is lucky enough to have a mate, let alone a mate who shares your exact sexual libido. Our concept of meeting the person of your dreams, falling maddly in love and living the rest of your lives in bliss, sexual or otherwise is a fairy tale, plain and simple. That is why prostitution is the oldest profession, and no matter how many laws are passed and no matter how many jealous wives are upset, it will always be with us; and serving a very necessary function.

I don't deny that Americans are uptight about sex, but laws against prostitution (and enforcement of those laws) are partially designed to protect thousands of women who are enslaved and forced into prostitution (yes, i know SD's girlfriend is doing this of her own free will, but gimme a break). This is a problem in the U.S. and an even bigger problem in those European countries where prositution is legal and/or tolerated. Women who come from poor backgrounds are trafficked in the sex trade all over the world with no protection, no options, and no way out. You are trying to justify prostitution to make yourself feel better about using them or wanting to use them. Nice try.
The next time you pick up a hooker or go to a "massage parlor," think about who's daughter you're fucking.

 

[lovechild27]

AS serious as you may take it...honey your still a prositute. Your selling yourself for money. You love your guy SO MUCH your paid for sex acts.

I dont see why you dont get a real job. And why must you push him to the edge to quit? Again...you love this guy so much..but youll drive him to the edge of sanity before you give it up? Pretty damn selfish. Normal, emotionally healthy, stable people dont do sex acts for cash. I hope you can wake up, get a real job and put things back together.

And peachy brings up an awesome point. The past never really goes away. This will follow you forever...no matter where you go or what you do...no matter how long you have been married or how many kids you have...you would of always been a prostitute at some point in your life.

And just because something has been labled legal doesnt make it right...

 

[James G 5]

I don't deny that Americans are uptight about sex, but laws against prostitution (and enforcement of those laws) are partially designed to protect thousands of women who are enslaved and forced into prostitution (yes, i know SD's girlfriend is doing this of her own free will, but gimme a break). This is a problem in the U.S. and an even bigger problem in those European countries where prositution is legal and/or tolerated. Women who come from poor backgrounds are trafficked in the sex trade all over the world with no protection, no options, and no way out. You are trying to justify prostitution to make yourself feel better about using them or wanting to use them. Nice try.
The next time you pick up a hooker or go to a "massage parlor," think about who's daughter you're fucking.

Yanno, in the US & Canada at least, there is very little real "sexual slavery" except for some instances of foreign (primarily Asian) women being brought in
And there would not be a demand for that if prostitution and sex work were a more readily available option *shrug*
The whole "slavery" thing was a bogeyman created largely in the '30's to justify the FBI's existence after Prhibition before they tarted the FIRST "war on Drugs"
There's a BUNCH of info about that whole scare in Playboy's "History of Sex"......but the idea of it, and the few real instances, are a meme now
Most of the laws were a combination of public morals issues from people who couldn't stand the idea of sex, and an effort to stop a wave of STD's that grew as the country went theu the Industrial Revolution and the urbanization of the early 1900's, when such diseases ran riot
Prositution has always been around and WILL always be around, and stigmatizing it and driving it underground makes things WORSE
Legalize it & regulate it like any other service
People WANT the service, people are going to PROVIDE the service
Why not make sure they do so HEALTHILY?
Why are all of you SO sure it can only be a bad thing?
*sigh*

 

[James G 5]

Like I said...
WHY is sex work NOT a "real job"?
A sex act is JUST that, an ACT
Sex is NOT NOT NOT NOT [size=large]NOT[/size] love , and love is NOT sex, and sex & love aren't about ownership of each other, each other's bodies, or each other's sexuality
Explain to me RATIONALLY please WHY being a prostitute is BAD?
And no using "It's illegal"

AS serious as you may take it...honey your still a prositute. Your selling yourself for money. You love your guy SO MUCH your paid for sex acts.

I dont see why you dont get a real job. And why must you push him to the edge to quit? Again...you love this guy so much..but youll drive him to the edge of sanity before you give it up? Pretty damn selfish. Normal, emotionally healthy, stable people dont do sex acts for cash. I hope you can wake up, get a real job and put things back together.

And peachy brings up an awesome point. The past never really goes away. This will follow you forever...no matter where you go or what you do...no matter how long you have been married or how many kids you have...you would of always been a prostitute at some point in your life.

And just because something has been labled legal doesnt make it right...

 

[sonicdefender]

Like I said...
WHY is sex work NOT a "real job"?
A sex act is JUST that, an ACT
Sex is NOT NOT NOT NOT [size=large]NOT[/size] love , and love is NOT sex, and sex & love aren't about ownership of each other, each other's bodies, or each other's sexuality
Explain to me RATIONALLY please WHY being a prostitute is BAD?
And no using "It's illegal"

Exactly

 

[lovechild27]

A sex act is JUST that, an ACT

Im imcredibly sorry you see sex in that light.

If this was a single woman...I would say go for it. Who the hell is she hurting besides maybe herself?

But doing something like this while in a relationship is fucked up. Shes just hurting him in the process.

Im assuming she doesnt go out and pick up guys at random to have sex with..cuz that would be wrong...right?
But I guess youd say sex is just an act...and her boyfriend wouldnt give two shits because it doesnt mean she isnt committed to him or doesnt love him...so her banging strangers at random, for free and for her own pleasure would be allright?


Take a look at some of the places prostitution is legal...Just somewhere Id love to raise those kids...

Maybe they will move to Bangcock to raise their kids...that way when their daughters are 18 they can have a life full of being on their backs because its 'legal' and just an act.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

Of course the sex industry pays big time. Ask strippers, porn stars, and call girls. They all make money. It's also high risk and only short term. Your girl is no different. She exchanges sexual favors for money. Period. She might as well be walking the streets - she's doing the same thing.

[/B]

i was agreeing with everything you said except for this one lil thing....strippers and prostitues are NOT the same thing. I danced for 2 years...NO one touched me EVER I did not go down on or have sex with ANYONE for money...the 2 do NOT correlate.

other than that, i agree completely

 

[James G 5]

Re: A sex act is JUST that, an ACT

Im imcredibly sorry you see sex in that light.

Why? I didnt' say it couldn't be MORE than that. It's what we ATTACH to it that makes it more, or less. You're attaching an overly negative connotation simply on the basis that money changes hand.....that implies you justify sex as "ok" becuase it's something "wonderful & special shared between 2 people out of love"....BUNK. It CAN be, and that can be GOOD.....but that's nto all it is or all it can be and it CAN be good in other ways *shrug*

If this was a single woman...I would say go for it. Who the hell is she hurting besides maybe herself?

But doing something like this while in a relationship is fucked up. Shes just hurting him in the process.

Ok, I agree with you THERE...Doing it in a relationship to the detriment of your relationship IS fucked up if you want the relationship. I was simply arguing with the "sex for money is ALWAYS bad" idea....and it sounds like BOTH ofthem are working to try & deal with the other issues & she said she would stop if he can't handle it

Im assuming she doesnt go out and pick up guys at random to have sex with..cuz that would be wrong...right?

Probably not terribly safe or healthy, but as long as her guy was cool ith it not intrinsically WRONG, no

But I guess youd say sex is just an act...and her boyfriend wouldnt give two shits because it doesnt mean she isnt committed to him or doesnt love him...so her banging strangers at random, for free and for her own pleasure would be allright?

As long as her boyfriend understands that & is cool with it, why not?

Take a look at some of the places prostitution is legal...Just somewhere Id love to raise those kids...

Maybe they will move to Bangcock to raise their kids...that way when their daughters are 18 they can have a life full of being on their backs because its 'legal' and just an act.

Oh puh-LEASE
It is a tiresome and ignorant argumentative tactic to bring up the "protect the kids" argumnt
Thailand is a horribly impoverished country with little work or opportunity
You want to fix girls being pushed in to sex work out of necessity by their families or on their own?
Address the issues of the economy and societal attitudes towards women

And ask yourself about the roots of your own attitudes, while you're at it

 

[James G 5]

i was agreeing with everything you said except for this one lil thing....strippers and prostitues are NOT the same thing. I danced for 2 years...NO one touched me EVER I did not go down on or have sex with ANYONE for money...the 2 do NOT correlate.

other than that, i agree completely

Do you feel there's something intrinsically wrong in going from the TEASE of sex for pay and ACTUAL sex for pay?
if so, why?

 

[SexyChele]

i was agreeing with everything you said except for this one lil thing....strippers and prostitues are NOT the same thing. I danced for 2 years...NO one touched me EVER I did not go down on or have sex with ANYONE for money...the 2 do NOT correlate.

other than that, i agree completely

Thank you, pet. By my comments, I didn't mean to say that strippers are all prostitutes (some do have sex with men in clubs, but that is different). However, strippers are still considered to be involved in the sex industry. That was my connection.



James, if female prostitution had a more equal balance of power, I might agree with you. Might. But the reality of it is women who are involved in prostitution are not in control. Is it societal? Perhaps, and maybe that is the bigger issue. Anywhere you have had a patriarchal society, you have had prostitution. Ever wonder why that is? Will it ever go away? No. Not as long as women do not have an equal balance of power and control within society.

Yes, I know men like to make themselves feel better about using the services of prostitutes by stating they have free will, the girls are "nice" (As opposed to what? Not nice? Who wants to be with a mean hooker?), she's just making a living, yada, yada, yada. Same old excuses. That's what they are, plain and simple. Fact is, there is something very sad and pathetic and desperate about a man who must pay a woman to engage in sexual activity with him. Most men do not proudly state, "Yeah, I was with 3 hookers this weekend." It's something they do in private, maybe tell only their close buds, and hope it never gets revealed in public. Fact is, even most men have a revulsion towards other men who have to use prostitutes because they cannot get a woman any other way. This is the attitude of men, not women, btw.

Is it an American thing? Might be, I really don't know. But I do know there was such a thing as "sexual slavery" in Europe. (Oh my! Not there - they are so enlightened!) Yeah. Young Russian girls having promises made to them, then once they got to Europe, they ended up on the streets, peddling sex for men. Interesting that it doesn't only happen in the US.

And, for your information, the state of Nevada does have legalized prostitution. No, not inside the city of Las Vegas, though it thrives there. These girls are kept on compounds and when "clients" show up they are put in a position of almost begging these men to choose them. Now, that sounds like a woman who has lots of control, yes? Also, these legalized prostitution "compounds" are, again, owned and operated by men.

And that is my "beef" with prostitution. If it weren't run overwhelming by men, if women had more say in how it was conducted, I would think it a more equal enterprise. But it will never be that way. Never has. Men have always held the power in this business, and that is what I, personally, have against it.

 

[lovechild27]

Well...if you read some of the posts in the past you will see that they do talk about having kids. And that is an incredibly valid reason to not make prostitution legal. Who really wants to raise kids in a society where its ok to sell yourself for cash? I am SO sure that would really improve how kids are growing up these days…

Hey...if you want to go out and bang some girl who has been with 150 other guys (and from the sounds of it you may have many many times)...be my guest. That’s your choice. Have you ever met a well-rounded, happy, carefree, unabused prostitute? (Spending many hours volunteering in a womens shelter like I have, where many of the women were prostitutes, from all walks of life, colors and situations...) youd soon realize the answer is probably not. They come from broken homes, abusive relationships, drug addictions, poverty.... this is not something a well-adjusted person wants to go do. It does nothing but lower their self-esteem and make them feel even more worthless than they already feel. How can you respect yourself when you sleep with 15 different guys a day? You cant and you don’t

If prostitution was so great and harmless and meant nothing and all you were doing was giving someone your services...it wouldn’t be illegal in the first place.

And why don’t you look at the root of your attitude?

I have seen what prostitution does to women and it’s heartbreaking. THAT is the root of my attitude. Women aren’t fuck toys…we are not put here to lie down for some asshole to use whatever orifice he pleases for $20. Just like men deserve respect in bed, so do women.
And if other countries are so great and free and careless with sex…then go live there. It seems like America just isn’t the place for you.

 

[James G 5]

Uh huh.
LoveChild, Chele, what about MALE prostitutes?
Is THAT ok?
If they do other men? Women?
'cause there's an AWFUL lot of that too, both in the gay & straight world

But I notice you both focus on this being exclusively a "patricarchal men abuse women thing"
Which is, no offense, horseshit
Not saying a lot of it doesn't go ON
but that's not ALL of it, certainly

And feminism is supposed to be about making CHOICES...one's body and one's sexuality CAN be viewed as commodities, and if a woman (or a man for that matter) CHOOSES to charge for them, WHY is it wrong?

You ARE correct about some of the aspects of the slavery or force issues as well as some of the other negative aspects

BUT...those come out of (as I mentioned) both really poor economic situations where people are driven to desperate acts like selling themselves or their children in to prostitution and societal disregard for women, combined with issues liek drug abuse
I would wager most of those women int he shelter had problems with drugs, came from traumatic home situations, battering husbands, etc where they felt they had no other options but street prostitution
Bettering their social situations would help, but having LEGAL, SAFE outlets where people could go for safe sex with non-junkies would dry up much of the business and remove them from those lives
Clark county (where Vegas is) has LOTS of streetwalkers
The counties with the legal brothels DON'T
Why would choose a troubled, possibly addicted or infected streetwalker when a safe legal alternative is available??

Chele, you say things will "never change"....I would like to point out the largest, most notorious prostitution ring in recent US history was run by a woman (Heidi Fleiss) with workers who were de facto partners in the business. So while the paradigm you cite is largely true, it's not ALWAYS true and doesn't have to be.
Ghetoizing and stigmatizing prosituion WILL keep that alive
Like I said, it's ALWAYS been around
And since you're not going to change human sexuality there will probably ALWAYS be a demand for it

lovechild, why do YOU think prostitution is illegal? If it was handled correctly there would be very little potential harm

And by the root of your attitude, I meant how you think of sex
Obviosuly yu want to atach more importance to it than that of a mere physical act...WHY? on what basis?
The main reason someone would have issues with respect is because people like you TELL them they should