Getting Sober

[Guest]

I require someone to be 'it.' I am a fundamentally self righteous and sanctimonious personality; I'm either in the gutter or in the pulpit. This is the wage of my jusdemental asshattery.

Fixed your post

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Thats true. I dont drink. I cant recall the last time I used alcohol. Maybe it was 2001 and a glass of Sangria. Before that it was maybe 1986.

I had a clinical supervisor who was recovering and a AA Nazi. She worked on me all the time to join AA. I said "I dont drink." And she had fits about cough medicine and cooking sherry and NyQuil. If you used any of it you might as well crawl in the gutter.

 

[sethp]

I hear what you both are saying and there is truth to it.

12 step groups are run by people and people arent' perfect so therefore niether will the groups be.and yes I've seen self righteous folks there and many relapses and many nasty unhappy people.

You may even call me self righteous--but this is the point below...

If you really want to get sobor. AA is the best way and the 12 steps...the steps and AA book and meeting guidlines are perfect in their simplisity and effectiveness.

There are probably tens of thousands of people that have gone thru 12 step programs maybe even 100's of thousands or millions who are not self righteous and are happy people now.

And itsn't it better to be a little bit unhappy and bitter, self righteous, being addicted to AA rather then the alternative... having blackouts, Getting ILL, getting an STD, getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant, being alienated from your family, losing your job, being arrested and losing all of your material possessions or dying?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You make my point better than I can.

 

[sethp]

You make my point better than I can.

My point is go to AA and get sober.. do the 12 steps and keep going to meetings.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SETHP

AA reminds me of Carrie's mother. Even sober the typical AA member organizes his life around alcohol.

 

[Guest]

And itsn't it better to be a little bit unhappy and bitter, self righteous, being addicted to AA rather then the alternative... having blackouts, Getting ILL, getting an STD, getting pregnant or getting someone else pregnant, being alienated from your family, losing your job, being arrested and losing all of your material possessions or dying?

Taking this to another thread.

This one is about supporting Haldir.

 

[sethp]

SETHP

AA reminds me of Carrie's mother. Even sober the typical AA member organizes his life around alcohol.

not true. many do yes maybe even most but not all.

The danger of what you are saying is that you'll stop someone from going to AA in the first place and get the benefit of getting sober. For the first year I think constant AA is the best way. getting a sponsor, organizing your life around AA. etc.

What's the alternative? I'm a big believer in helping yourself but sometimes you need help and AA i s a tool you can use to help yourself. mabye even the only tool that works for most people.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SETHP

Alcoholics have self induced dissociative disorder. That is, two minds. The sober mind and the drunk mind. Theyre never together at the same time. The treatment is to anchor each 'mind' to triggers and set them off simultaneously.

 

[Liar]

Naaah. I just dont like alcoholics. I mean, who does?

I like a lot of different people. Some of them are alcoholics. I don't like their alcoholism.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LIAR

Ah! The Devil made me do it theory.

I dont think I've ever met one alcoholic who takes responsibility for the destruction they create all by themselves.

 

[sethp]

SETHP

Alcoholics have self induced dissociative disorder. That is, two minds. The sober mind and the drunk mind. Theyre never together at the same time. The treatment is to anchor each 'mind' to triggers and set them off simultaneously.

hmmm I'm not sure if it's that simple? give me al ink to look that up. I think you do alchoholics a disservice if you tell them there is no such thing as alchoholism but it's a dissorder called dissociative disorder.

 

[sethp]

LIAR

Ah! The Devil made me do it theory.

I dont think I've ever met one alcoholic who takes responsibility for the destruction they create all by themselves.

Me. I do!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SETHP

Google NLP or Richard Bandler John Grinder and look for anchoring

 

[sethp]

SETHP

Google NLP or Richard Bandler John Grinder and look for anchoring

yeah I know NLP and Richard Bandler and further into Ross Jeffries and Tony Robbins and Mystery etc.

Though some of the techniques/issues are similar...it's not the same and that' s not enough. unfortunatly ..I don't have the resources/proof other than personal experience to debate with you...

 

[sethp]

Alcoholism, which is also known as "alcohol dependence syndrome," is a disease that is characterized by the following elements:


Craving: A strong need, or compulsion, to drink.


Loss of control: The frequent inability to stop drinking once a person has begun.


Physical dependence: The occurrence of withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating, shakiness, and anxiety, when alcohol use is stopped after a period of heavy drinking. These symptoms are usually relieved by drinking alcohol or by taking another sedative drug.


Tolerance: The need for increasing amounts of alcohol in order to get "high."
Alcoholism has little to do with what kind of alcohol one drinks, how long one has been drinking, or even exactly how much alcohol one consumes. But it has a great deal to do with a person's uncontrollable need for alcohol.

This description of alcoholism helps us understand why most alcoholics can't just "use a little willpower" to stop drinking. He or she is frequently in the grip of a powerful craving for alcohol, a need that can feel as strong as the need for food or water.

While some people are able to recover without help, the majority of alcoholic individuals need outside assistance to recover from their disease. With support and treatment, many individuals are able to stop drinking and rebuild their lives.

Many people wonder: Why can some individuals use alcohol without problems, while others are utterly unable to control their drinking? Recent research supported by NIAAA has demonstrated that for many people, a vulnerability to alcoholism is inherited.

Yet it is important to recognize that aspects of a person's environment, such as peer influences and the availability of alcohol, also are significant influences. Both inherited and environmental influences are called "risk factors."

But risk is not destiny. Just because alcoholism tends to run in families doesn't mean that a child of an alcoholic parent will automatically develop alcoholism.


This is a pretty good description of it..

But keep in mind that not all alcholics are fall down drunks get drunk every nigh. an alchoholic might only drink once a week or once a month.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SETHP

I did my graduate school thesis on the genetic features of alcoholism and I concluded there were none. That is, there was no alcoholic gene, per se.

I dont agree with your disease model. Alcoholism isnt a disease. You dont catch it, you arent born with it. The syndrome, that is, clustre of symptoms, results from using too much alcohol.

I'm a lard ass because I put too much food in my mouth, its not a disease.

 

[sethp]

SETHP

I did my graduate school thesis on the genetic features of alcoholism and I concluded there were none. That is, there was no alcoholic gene, per se.

I dont agree with your disease model. Alcoholism isnt a disease. You dont catch it, you arent born with it. The syndrome, that is, clustre of symptoms, results from using too much alcohol.

I'm a lard ass because I put too much food in my mouth, its not a disease.

I agree that you can't catch it but...it seems much more than just a dissociative disorder.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Explain what a blackout is, if it isnt a symptom of dissociative disorder

 

[sethp]

Explain what a blackout is, if it isnt a symptom of dissociative disorder

well back to AA for a minute. remember that when AA was first established ...mental health and psycology etc were very much behind the times. AA and the 12 steps were just about the only thing and the first thing that helped alchoholics get sober and remain sober for any ammount of time..

fast forward to modern times. and a bit of a stretch here..but AA in general and the 12 steps ..treats dissociative dissorder and associated symptoms...for FREE. also there is a built in support group that meets every day of the week in person usually.

Mental illness/conditions/depression etc are all treated much more effectivly when the person has a support group to help them.

How can that be a bad thing?

so playing the devils advocate here. How can a person treat dissociative disorder for free without AA if that is in fact what they have?

yeah james...I know i'm a dumbass but...I'm starting to string these thoughts together.

 

[jomar]

SETHP

I did my graduate school thesis on the genetic features of alcoholism and I concluded there were none. That is, there was no alcoholic gene, per se.

I dont agree with your disease model. Alcoholism isnt a disease. You dont catch it, you arent born with it. The syndrome, that is, clustre of symptoms, results from using too much alcohol.

I'm a lard ass because I put too much food in my mouth, its not a disease.

When did you do your research? This is at odds with the medical/scientific community.

 

[Liar]

LIAR

Ah! The Devil made me do it theory.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[tickledkitty]

When did you do your research? This is at odds with the medical/scientific community.

It was in 1917.

 

[jomar]

It was in 1917.

I was wondering.

 

[lisa123414]

haldir -
its a good thing you are doing. hang in there, you can.