Getting Along

[HandsInTheDark]

Since you've asked ... in Naoko's famous thread that got closed, on women getting harassed and/or hoodwinked by men pretending to have an interest in their writing, you and I were disagreeing/debating/discussing. You were riled up and called me "Sweetheart." As in, "listen here, sweetheart if you blah blah, etc." It was off-putting, and unbecoming for someone, such as you, who seems to pride himself on not making things personal, and in debating and discussing fairly and rationally.

So, if you're handing out apologies ...

Sheesh. Ok. I tend to use that semi-sarcastically and playfully, but yeah, it's uncool in this context. Sorry.

 

[sheablue]

Sheesh. Ok. I tend to use that semi-sarcastically and playfully, but yeah, it's uncool in this context. Sorry.

I was half kidding, but thank you.

You must know that sarcasm and playfulness do not play well online, especially in a serious and/or heated debate with people you don't know, and who don't know you. Especially in that context, as you noted.

Ahhh, apologies are good for the soul. So I apologize for calling you a self-righteous boob behind your back to all who would listen.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

Mansplaining on aisle 9. Someone bring a mop!

 

[NaokoSmith]

So I'm new to the forums and have been creeping in the AH, and I have to say having seen the thread in question earlier today, I'm kind of torn.

A better example of Authors' Hangout is the FAWC thread. Writers there are chatting and talking about writing - that's what it's often like on AH, and what we are working towards making normal on the Forum, after a period in which trolling here escalated from background nuisance and became normal.

If you take part in the writing competitions and challenges, you can chat in the threads about those and find good support and friendly banter.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I was half kidding, but thank you.

Ahhh, apologies are good for the soul. So I apologize for calling you a self-righteous boob behind your back to all who would listen.

... it kind of fascinates me that you'd bother to message people about me. I mean, yay friendships and active private conversations. But discussing other people in private... it used to be called gossip and was a major no-no. On the internet it's the core of all echo chambers.

I don't know if it happens this way, but I can easily see one group's friendly back-channel conversations being another person's hate mongers, shadow forum government, vote rigging conspiracy or what have you.

And you can easily see how it could operate. Someone, call him H, insults someone else, Z. Z decides H has to go, and is friends with a number of folk here. Z starts PMing to his online coffee klatch - wow, that H is an asshole, isn't he. And it gets discussed in a private echo chamber. Things get blown out of proportion, connotation words get misused, sooner or later someone (doesn't have to be Z) inserts blatant falsehood and swears blind it's true, because consensus and belonging are seductive forces, and truth and fact checking are simply No Fun.

From the coffee klatch's point of view, it's just friends, talking, and There Is No Conspiracy. Sure, a few liberties were maybe taken with social niceties, but hey, that happens, it's not like any of us is a fan of Miss Manners. From the point of view of people outside the klatch, there's unistakable evidence that group consensus is orchestrated in the background, yeah, the conspirators are at it again... Z, of course, might or might not be counting on his innuendo, poured into an echo chamber, to achieve his aims. It depends on how much he hates and how manipulative he is.

So I'm looking for ways to tamp down hostility. So far I don't think anyone's been throwing out ideas but me. Two mods and Laurel have indicated they want the return of tranquility, but they don't have the tools to really solve the problem externally. I'm not sure tools matter. If enough people like the drama, and enough other people are all about grooving to the process of inner-circle consensus forming, all the moderation in the world isn't going to solve problems. Because the problem is rooted in exchanges that mods can't see.

So while an idea is that "People will not discuss others in private", hell will freeze before most people will agree to that. That concept belongs to a rule-set that most people rejected long ago.

Yeah, this exercise is going about as well as I'd feared. No one is stepping forward with "let's try this" or "I will no longer do this"... and it sounds more and more like moderation can't truly solve the core problem.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

Detente

A gradual easing of tensions...

This is the real goal.

 

[TxRad]

Bla bla bla bla bla....

You have no clue but you keep stirring the pot.

leave it alone and it will get better.

 

[SusanJillParker]

... it kind of fascinates me that you'd bother to message people about me. I mean, yay friendships and active private conversations. But discussing other people in private... it used to be called gossip and was a major no-no. On the internet it's the core of all echo chambers.

I don't know if it happens this way, but I can easily see one group's friendly back-channel conversations being another person's hate mongers, shadow forum government, vote rigging conspiracy or what have you.

And you can easily see how it could operate. Someone, call him H, insults someone else, Z. Z decides H has to go, and is friends with a number of folk here. Z starts PMing to his online coffee klatch - wow, that H is an asshole, isn't he. And it gets discussed in a private echo chamber. Things get blown out of proportion, connotation words get misused, sooner or later someone (doesn't have to be Z) inserts blatant falsehood and swears blind it's true, because consensus and belonging are seductive forces, and truth and fact checking are simply No Fun.

From the coffee klatch's point of view, it's just friends, talking, and There Is No Conspiracy. Sure, a few liberties were maybe taken with social niceties, but hey, that happens, it's not like any of us is a fan of Miss Manners. From the point of view of people outside the klatch, there's unistakable evidence that group consensus is orchestrated in the background, yeah, the conspirators are at it again... Z, of course, might or might not be counting on his innuendo, poured into an echo chamber, to achieve his aims. It depends on how much he hates and how manipulative he is.

So I'm looking for ways to tamp down hostility. So far I don't think anyone's been throwing out ideas but me. Two mods and Laurel have indicated they want the return of tranquility, but they don't have the tools to really solve the problem externally. I'm not sure tools matter. If enough people like the drama, and enough other people are all about grooving to the process of inner-circle consensus forming, all the moderation in the world isn't going to solve problems. Because the problem is rooted in exchanges that mods can't see.

So while an idea is that "People will not discuss others in private", hell will freeze before most people will agree to that. That concept belongs to a rule-set that most people rejected long ago.

Yeah, this exercise is going about as well as I'd feared. No one is stepping forward with "let's try this" or "I will no longer do this"... and it sounds more and more like moderation can't truly solve the core problem.

If you read the threads, there are only three, just three, AH members who start all the trouble. They even fight between themselves and only come together when attacking someone else.

If you want this to be a better place, Laurel needs to come down on these three AH members hard. These three men act as if they own the site and if they don't like someone, they'll make up things and lie about the person until everyone believes their stories. Rather than to be their new target, the other AH members remain quiet or join it and go along with whatever they write.

I don't bother anyone. I don't chase people around the board and post shit behind them. I don't harass anyone. I don't target anyone. I mostly post to my own threads. I mind my own business but when my cage is rattled and when I have these three disturbed individuals purposely throwing stones and slinging mud at me, I can only stay quiet so long.

If you want a better place, put a muzzle on these three.

 

[TxRad]

Bla bla bla bla bla.

If you want a better place, put a muzzle on these three.

Yes, we are well all aware of your campaign to get rid of certain people. The reason you start all the silly threads to draw people in to your bullshit. Another shit stirrer.

 

[GoldenCojones]

...
So I'm looking for ways to tamp down hostility. So far I don't think anyone's been throwing out ideas but me.
...

May I throw out an idea? Be civil. It's a really simple concept but if we are just civil to each other hostility declines. There will always be those who can't or won't be civil, but who cares. By their in-civility they reveal what they are and can be ignored.

Sometimes, especially when you are being civil on the boards and someone jumps in on your thread in a failed attempt to make themselves look good at the expense of making others look bad, it is very hard to remain civil. But we should make every attempt to do so. Being civil back to them works to highlight their petty, self-serving, arrogant stupidity. It actually feels pretty good too.

 

[SusanJillParker]

May I throw out an idea? Be civil. It's a really simple concept but if we are just civil to each other hostility declines. There will always be those who can't or won't be civil, but who cares. By their in-civility they reveal what they are and can be ignored.

Sometimes, especially when you are being civil on the boards and someone jumps in on your thread in a failed attempt to make themselves look good at the expense of making others look bad, it is very hard to remain civil. But we should make every attempt to do so. Being civil back to them works to highlight their petty, self-serving, arrogant stupidity. It actually feels pretty good too.

That's a great idea.

We need to act as if we're out in public. We'd never way some of the things that are written here to someone's face. We need to keep that in mind.

 

[SusanJillParker]

Yes, we are well all aware of your campaign to get rid of certain people. The reason you start all the silly threads to draw people in to your bullshit. Another shit stirrer.

I have no campaign. I have no agenda. I just want to be left along by three AH members.

I just don't want to be continued being called a man when I'm a woman.

I don't bother anyone. I mind my own business. I didn't mention anything about ridding the board of anyone. I post mostly to my own threads. Moreover, my threads are silly but informative.

Already, you're starting trouble by calling what I write bullshit and me a shit stirrer.

So, who starting trouble now?

 

[TxRad]

If you read the threads, there are only three, just three, AH members who start all the trouble. They even fight between themselves and only come together when attacking someone else.

If you want this to be a better place, Laurel needs to come down on these three AH members hard. These three men act as if they own the site and if they don't like someone, they'll make up things and lie about the person until everyone believes their stories. Rather than to be their new target, the other AH members remain quiet or join it and go along with whatever they write.

I don't bother anyone. I don't chase people around the board and post shit behind them. I don't harass anyone. I don't target anyone. I mostly post to my own threads. I mind my own business but when my cage is rattled and when I have these three disturbed individuals purposely throwing stones and slinging mud at me, I can only stay quiet so long.

If you want a better place, put a muzzle on these three.

I have no campaign. I have no agenda. I just want to be left along by three AH members.

I just don't want to be continued being called a man when I'm a woman.

I don't bother anyone. I mind my own business. I didn't mention anything about ridding the board of anyone. I post mostly to my own threads. Moreover, my threads are silly but informative.

Already, you're starting trouble by calling what I write bullshit and me a shit stirrer.

So, who starting trouble now?

Some of your cool getting along with people.

Why the fuck should I, you sack of shit!

When you prove your a man, I'll prove I'm a woman. And by everything you post on this board, in the eyes of real men, you're a sack of shit, you sack of shit!

If I am what I'm stated as? So, if you're a sack of shit, you'll always be a sack of shit, you sack of shit.

And you're not even from Texas. You're from Durham, New Hampshire, you sack of shit.

My reply to this rant:

Since I've met a good number of people from Lit in person, where i live and who and what i am is very obvious. I am what everyone here sees.

Like I said, a photo with "I am a Woman" and the date on it to any of the Ladies here in the AH will solve everything. But i have my doubts it will ever happen.

Me, LC, and Pilot all know where the bodies are buried and that you're the one trying to bury them.

Keep trying, you're just showing how big an idiot you are. the next scouries and still here for the same reason.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

So I just ignore the two previous posts and continue smiling.

Detente is my friend.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

It helps if you hum your mantra... And envision that they are wearing big floppy shoes and hitting one another with custard pies.

Who threw that pie?

Whooooo threw that pie?!

 

[NaokoSmith]

So I'm looking for ways to tamp down hostility. So far I don't think anyone's been throwing out ideas but me.

I don't wish to stir the pot, but I really ask you HandsInTheDark to consider what you are saying.

Just how long have you been posting on Authors' Hangout? but you have all the answers?

Many people on here are quietly doing their best to make this a good place to post about writing issues. It would greatly help if you would spend a week not posting at all. Instead read all of the threads on here, consider carefully which ones are good ones which support a friendly community spirit, and just politely join in to respond to posts in those. Threads which talk about writing competitions. Threads in Writers' Exercises which provide word games to keep writers' minds ticking over.

The worst 'trolls' on here are people who post answers to writers' questions, patiently, year after year. The same questions come up again and again. We all patiently post the same answers: Your story will take a few days to upload. Don't click on the submission and press re-submit or it will go to the back of the queue. The red H means your story is Hot. Most days you can see the 'trolls' going in threads on here and in Story Feedback and giving new writers some support.

They also pick fights and make snide remarks, but they are long-standing contributors in ways I haven't yet seen you contribute - because you are new, so of course you don't yet understand all the answers.

My suggestion is that you listen and learn, then post answers to new writers' questions, rather than continue to imagine this is a place where there is only trolling and fighting.

 

[TxRad]

I don't wish to stir the pot, but I really ask you HandsInTheDark to consider what you are saying.

Just how long have you been posting on Authors' Hangout? but you have all the answers?

Many people on here are quietly doing their best to make this a good place to post about writing issues. It would greatly help if you would spend a week not posting at all. Instead read all of the threads on here, consider carefully which ones are good ones which support a friendly community spirit, and just politely join in to respond to posts in those. Threads which talk about writing competitions. Threads in Writers' Exercises which provide word games to keep writers' minds ticking over.

The worst 'trolls' on here are people who post answers to writers' questions, patiently, year after year. The same questions come up again and again. We all patiently post the same answers: Your story will take a few days to upload. Don't click on the submission and press re-submit or it will go to the back of the queue. The red H means your story is Hot. Most days you can see the 'trolls' going in threads on here and in Story Feedback and giving new writers some support.

They also pick fights and make snide remarks, but they are long-standing contributors in ways I haven't yet seen you contribute - because you are new, so of course you don't yet understand all the answers.

My suggestion is that you listen and learn, then post answers to new writers' questions, rather than continue to imagine this is a place where there is only trolling and fighting.

The best idea I've heard yet from anyone including me.

 

[sr71plt]

Threads like this wouldn't exist if there weren't posters who like to see the fighting as long as it's not their goose being cooked--or as, in Freddie's case, a poster with a history is trying to sweep that history under the carpet and others won't let him do that.

 

[sheablue]

... it kind of fascinates me that you'd bother to message people about me. I mean, yay friendships and active private conversations. But discussing other people in private... it used to be called gossip and was a major no-no. On the internet it's the core of all echo chambers.

I don't know if it happens this way, but I can easily see one group's friendly back-channel conversations being another person's hate mongers, shadow forum government, vote rigging conspiracy or what have you.

And you can easily see how it could operate. Someone, call him H, insults someone else, Z. Z decides H has to go, and is friends with a number of folk here. Z starts PMing to his online coffee klatch - wow, that H is an asshole, isn't he. And it gets discussed in a private echo chamber. Things get blown out of proportion, connotation words get misused, sooner or later someone (doesn't have to be Z) inserts blatant falsehood and swears blind it's true, because consensus and belonging are seductive forces, and truth and fact checking are simply No Fun.

From the coffee klatch's point of view, it's just friends, talking, and There Is No Conspiracy. Sure, a few liberties were maybe taken with social niceties, but hey, that happens, it's not like any of us is a fan of Miss Manners. From the point of view of people outside the klatch, there's unistakable evidence that group consensus is orchestrated in the background, yeah, the conspirators are at it again... Z, of course, might or might not be counting on his innuendo, poured into an echo chamber, to achieve his aims. It depends on how much he hates and how manipulative he is.

So I'm looking for ways to tamp down hostility. So far I don't think anyone's been throwing out ideas but me. Two mods and Laurel have indicated they want the return of tranquility, but they don't have the tools to really solve the problem externally. I'm not sure tools matter. If enough people like the drama, and enough other people are all about grooving to the process of inner-circle consensus forming, all the moderation in the world isn't going to solve problems. Because the problem is rooted in exchanges that mods can't see.

So while an idea is that "People will not discuss others in private", hell will freeze before most people will agree to that. That concept belongs to a rule-set that most people rejected long ago.

Yeah, this exercise is going about as well as I'd feared. No one is stepping forward with "let's try this" or "I will no longer do this"... and it sounds more and more like moderation can't truly solve the core problem.

Now see, it's happened again. I put that little winky face emoticon after what I said to show you that I was kidding. At first, I even wrote a line in parentheses explaining that. I said, "see, this little winky face means I'm kidding. Being playful, even." But then I thought it was unnecessary and would seem like a dig at your "just being playful" statement. So I left it off.

But my winky face was not interpreted correctly. I did not go around calling you a self-righteous boob to anyone who would listen. I don't know you. Like, at all. Maybe one suggestion to keep things civil is for everyone to lighten up just a little. Give people the benefit of the doubt. Follow the golden rule: don't be an asshole.

And ... What Naoko said.

 

[SusanJillParker]

Some of your cool getting along with people.

Why the fuck should I, you sack of shit!

When you prove your a man, I'll prove I'm a woman. And by everything you post on this board, in the eyes of real men, you're a sack of shit, you sack of shit!

If I am what I'm stated as? So, if you're a sack of shit, you'll always be a sack of shit, you sack of shit.

And you're not even from Texas. You're from Durham, New Hampshire, you sack of shit.

My reply to this rant:

Since I've met a good number of people from Lit in person, where i live and who and what i am is very obvious. I am what everyone here sees.

Like I said, a photo with "I am a Woman" and the date on it to any of the Ladies here in the AH will solve everything. But i have my doubts it will ever happen.

Me, LC, and Pilot all know where the bodies are buried and that you're the one trying to bury them.

Keep trying, you're just showing how big an idiot you are. the next scouries and still here for the same reason.

THE ABOVE POSTS WERE MADE AFTER YOU AND YOUR SIDEKICKS CONTINUED TO FOLLOW ME AROUND THE BOARD AND HARRASS ME BY CALLING ME A MAN.

 

[TxRad]

THE ABOVE POSTS WERE MADE AFTER YOU AND YOUR SIDEKICKS CONTINUED TO FOLLOW ME AROUND THE BOARD AND HARRASS ME BY CALLING ME A MAN.

That is very easy to fix. I've already explained it to you a half dozen times. Very easy, very simple. It doesn't even involve anyone but one of the ladies here in the AH.

Unless there is a problem with getting the picture. You can steal an AV picture but something specific and dated can't be stolen.

So simple to end all the problems.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, calling Freddie a man might be a stretch. But Freddie certainly is a male. And it's not a personal attack to point that out. It's a point of fact.

And because Freddie is prone to weighing into discussions about having been a sexually abused female, pointing out that he's male is a benefit to those using this forum and who might suck into the insidious lie.

 

[SusanJillParker]

That is very easy to fix. I've already explained it to you a half dozen times. Very easy, very simple. It doesn't even involve anyone but one of the ladies here in the AH.

Unless there is a problem with getting the picture. You can steal an AV picture but something specific and dated can't be stolen.

So simple to end all the problems.

Other than my name, which is more than you're willing to provide, I'm not giving anyone any more of my personal information, especially with you stalking me and trying to find me by looking me up on Google after I gave you my PO Box address.

The bottom line is, you show me some respect by not continuing to call me a man and I'll show your my respect in return. For the sake of the board, can we have a truce?

You leave me alone, you stop following me from thread to thread, posting after me, harassing me and I won't bother you...ever...never. Okay?

 

[SusanJillParker]

Well, calling Freddie a man might be a stretch. But Freddie certainly is a male. And it's not a personal attack to point that out. It's a point of fact.

And because Freddie is prone to weighing into discussions about having been a sexually abused female, pointing out that he's male is a benefit to those using this forum and who might suck into the insidious lie.

JUST STOP HARASSING ME. STOP FOLLOWING AROUND THE BOARD. JUST STOP

THIS BOARD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE IF YOU JUST LEAVE ME ALONE.

I DON'T BOTHER YOU. I DON'T POST AFTER YOU. I DON'T FOLLOW YOU AROUND THE BOARD CALLING YOU NAME AND ACCUSING YOU OF SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE NOT.

JUST STOP.

 

[Nathan_Brazil]

Other than my name, which is more than you're willing to provide, I'm not giving anyone any more of my personal information, especially with you stalking me and trying to find me by looking me up on Google after I gave you my PO Box address.

The bottom line is, you show me some respect by not continuing to call me a man and I'll show your my respect in return. For the sake of the board, can we have a truce?

You leave me alone, you stop following me from thread to thread, posting after me, harassing me and I won't bother you...ever...never. Okay?

Bingo.