Getting a little tense

[WRJames]

Has anyone else noticed that the past perfect tense seems to be going the way of the dodo?

Is this a dying concept? I know most of the authors I'm editing these days have no clue when to use past perfect. It's not natural to them. Are we in the midst of one of those great grammar shifts?

 

[sr71plt]

It's true that publishing doesn't like the past perfect much. Simple past is currently preferred as stronger and more streamlined.

Blame it on Hemingway, I guess.

 

[Saucy_Sage]

Nobody's perfect! Oops, sorry. I meant, nobody had been perfect. My bad.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Not Hemingway, blame it on Global Warming.



Past perfect seems softer, more passive. I use it only when nothing else fits.

 

[sr71plt]

It gets thrown in the same trash can as passive voice. There are times when it just seems to work, though, so I wouldn't be too dogmatic about now using any part of speech.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I totally have problems knowing when to use it, and I tend to stick with simple past

It does feel "passive."

Examples, please?

 

[WRJames]

I totally have problems knowing when to use it, and I tend to stick with simple past

It does feel "passive."

Examples, please?

So do most writers, I guess. I find myself sticking "had" in all the time when I edit which isn't all that easy because the d key sticks on my keboard. Anyway, here is the very next problem in the book I'm editing now

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him last night when she saw him.

To my ear, it should read

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that had come to her mind about him last night when she saw him.

You could go even further with

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that had come to her mind about him last night when she had seen him.

but that's getting clunky.

Anyway, if you are writing in past tense, then things that happened "before then" should be in past perfect.

What's wrong with passive?

 

[Weird Harold]

What's wrong with passive?

To quote Purdue UNiversity's Online Writing Lab:

"Overuse of passive voice can make your prose seem flat and uninteresting."

Note the qualifier "Overuse" -- it is difficult for many writers to use Passive Voice at all without "overusing" it.

 

[sr71plt]

When you find you are using "had had" a lot, you may be in trouble.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Marisa laughed aloud, her first impression of the man returning vividly to her mind.

I would probably lose "aloud", since we mostly laugh aloud-- laughing silently is the unusual form of laughter. That would depend on your context, of course.


I dunno, passive voice seems correct in many places-- like when a sub is experiencing things that other people are doing to her...

 

[voluptuary_manque]

So do most writers, I guess. I find myself sticking "had" in all the time when I edit which isn't all that easy because the d key sticks on my keboard. Anyway, here is the very next problem in the book I'm editing now

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him last night when she saw him.

To my ear, it should read

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that had come to her mind about him last night when she saw him.

You could go even further with

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that had come to her mind about him last night when she had seen him.

but that's getting clunky.

Anyway, if you are writing in past tense, then things that happened "before then" should be in past perfect.

What's wrong with passive?

If I wrote any of those sentences, I'd have rewritten it the next day. It's dreadful!

 

[Handley_Page]

Oh Dear. This is going to show my ignorance.
I never was any use at "Parts of Speech" when at school many years ago.
Would someone kindly explain Past Perfect to me (in simple terms ?)

Thanks

From one who writes too much in Passive sentences.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh Dear. This is going to show my ignorance.
I never was any use at "Parts of Speech" when at school many years ago.
Would someone kindly explain Past Perfect to me (in simple terms ?)

Thanks

From one who writes too much in Passive sentences.

This page might help;
http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/pastperfect.html
read, and discuss

 

[WRJames]

Oh Dear. This is going to show my ignorance.
I never was any use at "Parts of Speech" when at school many years ago.
Would someone kindly explain Past Perfect to me (in simple terms ?)

Thanks

From one who writes too much in Passive sentences.

From one whose sentences are too often written in the passive tense?

I remember in high school chemistry we were taught to write up all our lab reports in passive -- "The test tube was heated by the bunsen burner, etc."

Actually, you could probably come up with an interesting erotic story that way.

The subject was placed in the restraints. The subject was observed expressing concern over what might be happening to her next. When the subject was informed that fecal matter would be expelled from her body due to violent copulatory activity ...

 

[Xelebes]

Actually, you could probably come up with an interesting erotic story that way.

The subject was placed in the restraints. The subject was observed expressing concern over what might be happening to her next. When the subject was informed that fecal matter would be expelled from her body due to violent copulatory activity ...

Passive voice works well with hyperlexia.

 

[Stella_Omega]

From an older file of "Jessamine, this passage was written passive;

She was escorted back to the scene of her latest crime, on her hands and knees, driven by Sheba’s belt. Her arms were folded across her back and secured with a chain that stretched across her belly, from wrist to wrist. Her legs were nudged open while she rested her collarbone on the rim of the bathtub, staring in at the white porcelain, sadistic laughter accentuating her helplessness.

My editor did the automatic objection.
After thinking about it for a while, I found a nice passively active compromise;

She was escorted back to the scene of her latest crime, on her hands and knees, driven by Sheba’s belt. (The women) wrapped leather cuffs around her wrists and folded her forearms across her back, securing them with a chain that stretched across her belly, from wrist to wrist. Boots kicked her legs apart while she rested her collarbone on the rim of the bathtub, staring in at the white porcelain, sadistic laughter accentuating her helplessness.

None of which addresses past perfect, however!

 

[WRJames]

If I wrote any of those sentences, I'd have rewritten it the next day. It's dreadful!

I don't do major surgery unless it's really incoherent. This lady has very high reader ratings on Fictionwise, believe it or not.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Some people will read anything.

 

[WRJames]

When you find you are using "had had" a lot, you may be in trouble.

Just when you think it would never happen:

It didn’t matter anyway. What she did remember was he was the hottest lover ever to walk into her life. A chill shot up and down Marisa’s body as she recalled the feeling of him inside her. So strong, so wild and the way he looked into her eyes while making love with her was incredible! She’d had to contain herself because she’d felt like jumping off the bed and screaming about it.

 

[TE999]

Micro$haft Worst HATES passive voice, passive tenses and their ilk...flags every one of 'em...97% of the time it's right too...the sentences have more snap in the present.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by WRJames
So do most writers, I guess. I find myself sticking "had" in all the time when I edit which isn't all that easy because the d key sticks on my keboard. Anyway, here is the very next problem in the book I'm editing now

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him last night when she saw him.

To my ear, it should read

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that had come to her mind about him last night when she saw him.

You could go even further with

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that had come to her mind about him last night when she had seen him.

but that's getting clunky.

Anyway, if you are writing in past tense, then things that happened "before then" should be in past perfect.

What's wrong with passive?

If I wrote any of those sentences, I'd have rewritten it the next day. It's dreadful!

I agree with the Bear, and I use perfect tenses sometimes. I even use past progressive tense, and even past perfect progressive: We had been walking for almost an hour before I realized we were going in the wrong direction.

I use passive voice too, sometimes: Her pussy was crammed fuller with every thrust.

 

[Handley_Page]

Thanks, folks.

Erm. . .

" Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him last night when she saw him. "

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him when she'd seen him last night.

 

[Saucy_Sage]

Past perfect sounds sort of flashbacky, like you want to draw a line between that sentence and the others written in past tense. In its place, I think it works well. You just have to pick its place carefully.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thanks, folks.

Erm. . .

" Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him last night when she saw him. "

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the first words that came to her mind about him when she'd seen him last night.

Marisa laughed aloud as she remembered the words that came to her mind when she first saw him last night.

it's that "about him" that cripples the sentence.

 

[CharleyH]

Has anyone else noticed that the past perfect tense seems to be going the way of the dodo?

Is this a dying concept? I know most of the authors I'm editing these days have no clue when to use past perfect. It's not natural to them. Are we in the midst of one of those great grammar shifts?

The beauty of language is that it changes constantly. Can you imagine a world without contractions? At one point in time, I'm sure someone complained (and in every language) what is it with these young people. They can't speak proper ... *insert language here*