Get the gone!

[RejectReality]

It would look exactly like what it looks like now. Most people who legitimately downvote are doing it because they were unpleasantly surprised in a harsh way. Otherwise, the bulk of people don't even make it to the voting form if they're not enjoying it. They just nope out and go to the next story.

The people who are trolling are in it for that. The worst of them will ( rather easily ) find their way around the controls and continue on their merry way being fuckwaffles.

Anything you try to do to stop maleficence before it happens on the internet is only effective against the most casual and technologically unskilled. It takes both, because anyone with an ounce of drive can acquire the knowledge with a quick Google search.

The moment you put any measures in place that can't be defeated by simple means, it begins negatively impacting far more legitimate users than asshats.

The idea of personalizing the site for readers is a good one. Tag filtering wouldn't work particularly well without standardized tags, but it could still be useful in at least a small way. On the other sites where I post, I believe this is a paid feature, because it's a non-trivial thing to code.

( I've had free to authors premium service on one and gifted premium service on the other for so long that I don't remember for certain what the free features are on either one )

I posted this idea on Bramblethorne's thread in February, but I'll throw it out here again.

I don't know if it's feasible, but I thought that a solution to many of the problems on this site would be individually-tailored Literotica. Whenever anyone scores a story at 3 or less, or reports a story for any reason, it would disappear from "their" Literotica forever. Any future log-in on their account would no longer display that story or any reference to it.

Readers could also have the option to remove all stories with any tag or category they find offensive, and they could completely remove an author they don't like. For the reader, it would quickly pare down the site, leaving only stories they are interested in reading. For authors, it would reduce the incessant bombing of our stories, and it would severely curtail some of the negative, trollish comments. If someone hated your story and gave it a 1, it would disappear before they could add an insulting comment.

I can only wonder what LW would look like after that...

 

[lovecraft68]

Sorry to be a naysayer.

But even this cheap laptop has a <Copy> <Paste> <Edit> <Find> and <Replace> key. In 2:11 I can make any story here about 11 year old girls being gang (pack?) raped by dogs. If I wanted to. Which I don't. Censorship just never works.

Being that I write taboo stories, I'm one to normally agree people have the right to read and write whatever they want.

But I do think there are limits and even if it comes across as being judgmental there is something seriously disturbing about a person who enjoys stories of children being raped.

Also...there is a line between censorship and a crime. Law finds those stories on your computer I believe it falls under child pornography

Asstr existed because they were a free for all...the erotic story version of the dark web

 

[LexxRuthless]

It would look exactly like what it looks like now. Most people who legitimately downvote are doing it because they were unpleasantly surprised in a harsh way. Otherwise, the bulk of people don't even make it to the voting form if they're not enjoying it. They just nope out and go to the next story.

The people who are trolling are in it for that. The worst of them will ( rather easily ) find their way around the controls and continue on their merry way being fuckwaffles.

Anything you try to do to stop maleficence before it happens on the internet is only effective against the most casual and technologically unskilled. It takes both, because anyone with an ounce of drive can acquire the knowledge with a quick Google search.

The moment you put any measures in place that can't be defeated by simple means, it begins negatively impacting far more legitimate users than asshats.

The idea of personalizing the site for readers is a good one. Tag filtering wouldn't work particularly well without standardized tags, but it could still be useful in at least a small way. On the other sites where I post, I believe this is a paid feature, because it's a non-trivial thing to code.

( I've had free to authors premium service on one and gifted premium service on the other for so long that I don't remember for certain what the free features are on either one )

How about this, then:

Make "disable anonymous feedback" the default setting for all authors, and include VOTING by anonymous readers. We'd have the option to turn it on if we so chose, but it would only allow registered users to vote on stories. Each account is limited to a single vote, which can now be changed if the user changes their mind.

Sure, people could make slews of alts and vote with those. But it would make the fuckwaffles work at it...

 

[lovecraft68]

It would look exactly like what it looks like now. Most people who legitimately downvote are doing it because they were unpleasantly surprised in a harsh way. Otherwise, the bulk of people don't even make it to the voting form if they're not enjoying it. They just nope out and go to the next story.

The people who are trolling are in it for that. The worst of them will ( rather easily ) find their way around the controls and continue on their merry way being fuckwaffles.

Anything you try to do to stop maleficence before it happens on the internet is only effective against the most casual and technologically unskilled. It takes both, because anyone with an ounce of drive can acquire the knowledge with a quick Google search.

The moment you put any measures in place that can't be defeated by simple means, it begins negatively impacting far more legitimate users than asshats.

The idea of personalizing the site for readers is a good one. Tag filtering wouldn't work particularly well without standardized tags, but it could still be useful in at least a small way. On the other sites where I post, I believe this is a paid feature, because it's a non-trivial thing to code.

( I've had free to authors premium service on one and gifted premium service on the other for so long that I don't remember for certain what the free features are on either one )

You're saying most legit downvote because there was a hash surprise and there are people who bomb to be jerks or the type to downvote because one tiny detail(should have been on her face not her tits)

But do you-or anyone here-ever think a person can read an entire story and in the end say Nah, not so good? Once I start something even if it sucks I somehow get stuck going to the end...I've read entire novels where I was waiting/hoping for something redeemable.

I'm not being snarky, but it seems no one thinks a story can just be bad, at least to that reader.

 

[oggbashan]

With my number of followers constantly determined to post ones whenever I get near 4.5, I would have no stories on the site.

 

[Bramblethorn]

So, readers could 'poison' a story they didn't like.

An 'April poison', if you will.

 

[NoJo]

The infamous As++r website has been down for quite awhile, looks like they shut down or were finally shut down.

Great site if you were into 11 year old girls being gang raped...sometimes by dogs.

I read that story. She was actually 11 dog-years old, so it's fine.

 

[SimonDoom]

How about this, then:

Make "disable anonymous feedback" the default setting for all authors, and include VOTING by anonymous readers. We'd have the option to turn it on if we so chose, but it would only allow registered users to vote on stories. Each account is limited to a single vote, which can now be changed if the user changes their mind.

Sure, people could make slews of alts and vote with those. But it would make the fuckwaffles work at it...

You can't do this, because it would give authors who disable anonymous votes a leg up on those who don't in getting higher scores. It would incentivize everyone to disable anonymous votes. More importantly, it would convey incorrect information to readers. The whole point of the rating is to convey information to potential readers and anything that compromises that is bad.

 

[Payne_Hall]

Getting an account is easy...

Reject, this is the first I’ve seen that alt’s avatar and it’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen in my life.

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

Being that I write taboo stories, I'm one to normally agree people have the right to read and write whatever they want.

But I do think there are limits and even if it comes across as being judgmental there is something seriously disturbing about a person who enjoys stories of children being raped.

There are many, many things on this site -- some stories and much of the GB -- that I find disturbing. But what happens with the trolls if we just shut down LW? They come over here. I have stories posted in LW. They are basically group sex stories that involve married couples ...

Which illustrates another problem with censorship -- the "slippery slope." I have stories that were put in the Incest category where none of the characters are related because they might offend sensibilities in Group Sex. I had a story in 'Nonhuman' that was deemed not Nonhuman for political reasons. I had a whole identity banned for the equivalent of saying "anal sex does not cause AIDS."

There are (or at least were) rape stories on this site. It's just called non-con here. All I was saying is that a person -- if they wanted to -- could easily cut, paste, edit, and add or substitute "11-year-old" repeatedly into any story here. In fact by now requiring authors to state the age of participants it makes the substitution easier, <find> "eighteen" and "18" <replace> "eleven" and "11." Thirty seconds.

Also there is a line between censorship and a crime. Law finds those stories on your computer I believe it falls under child pornography

Words and fiction, that don't use or advocate using real people or describe real criminal acts is protected by federal law in the US. (Where Literotica has its servers.) The argument that you can't write about a sex act -- like spanking for instance -- that is illegal somewhere would make almost all television and popular novels illegal.

Police dramas ... Well, I guess the cops can go to schools and explain why kids should "look both ways first." Riveting drama. What do we censor? It's usually political thought (anything those in power find threatening).

Asstr existed because they were a free for all...the erotic story version of the dark web

Asstr had so many problems. It was a relic, a 1978 Chrysler K car without a driver. It's been on life support for years. The "dark web" is just a made up scary term for the original internet before AOL figured out how to monetize it..

It comprises those who don't choose to pay for an "approved" portal. I use the "dark web" a proxy server in another country to access Literotica because the giant corporation I do business with has operations where government policies restrict free speech --- like Cuba, New York State, Jamaica, California, Britain and South Australia.

I chose those examples because technically at least stories here on Literotica that meet Literotica's standards are illegal there, i might not like the GB but nobody, not even @#$%**, should be arrested for posting there -- law enforcement has no problem searching the "dark" or "original" web. And plenty of crime occurs on the commercial web.

EDIT: My spell checker is like a censor, too much or too little, never just right.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Words, fiction, not using or advocating real people or real acts is not regulated by law in the US. (Where Literotica has its servers.)

This isn't entirely true. The First Amendment provides a lot of protection for written expression, but Frank McCoy went to jail a few years back on obscenity charges when a court found that his stories didn't qualify for First Amendment protection.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

ASSTR.org 'Tis no more, I'm told.

I think the large changes in the ratings are too closely associated with March 19th to be explained with a lot of new users, most of whom probably read here anyway even before ASSTR disappeared.

We shouldn't let you think, Sam. I think RR is right. Some categories -- especially LW -- would be decimated. Your concept gives the down voters all the power, and ignores readers who might like the story.

There's a fix for that. Every down vote counts as 1/10,000 of a vote. So for every up vote, the trolls would need to fake vote 10,000 times to counter that single vote.

 

[SimonDoom]

Words and fiction, thag don't use or advocating using real people or describe real criminal acts is protected by federal law in the US. (Where Literotica has its servers.) .

In my opinion, this SHOULD be the case, because IMO people should be able to write about whatever they want in fiction, but in the US it is not. Until the US Supreme Court issues a ruling on this question, it's a gray area, and it's impossible to predict for certain how all courts in the US would rule, but there are cases where people in the US have been prosecuted and convicted for publishing stories about pedophilia. In addition to the one cited by Bramblethorn, just this year a man was convicted in federal court in Texas for operating a website that specialized in stories about the sexual abuse of children.

 

[RejectReality]

How about this, then:

Make "disable anonymous feedback" the default setting for all authors, and include VOTING by anonymous readers. We'd have the option to turn it on if we so chose, but it would only allow registered users to vote on stories. Each account is limited to a single vote, which can now be changed if the user changes their mind.

Sure, people could make slews of alts and vote with those. But it would make the fuckwaffles work at it...

Either turn it on, or turn it off universally. It's never going to end well when you create a two-tiered scoring system, because score is used as the primary sortation criteria for so many things.

Frankly, I think most people would have a panic attack when they discovered just how many of their fives are also anonymous. Those users also have far less motivation to work their way around the system in order to vote. They're just going to splooge, shrug, and move on instead of making an account to click five stars.

Meanwhile, the trolls don't have to work as hard, because with all those anonymous 5s gone, every one of their troll votes hits harder.

 

[RejectReality]

You're saying most legit downvote because there was a hash surprise and there are people who bomb to be jerks or the type to downvote because one tiny detail(should have been on her face not her tits)

But do you-or anyone here-ever think a person can read an entire story and in the end say Nah, not so good? Once I start something even if it sucks I somehow get stuck going to the end...I've read entire novels where I was waiting/hoping for something redeemable.

I'm not being snarky, but it seems no one thinks a story can just be bad, at least to that reader.

How many people actually do that, though? I sure as hell don't. If I get bored or start cringing, I'm gone. I'm sure it actually happens, but it's a matter of whether its statistically significant enough to amount to a fart in a whirlwind LOL

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

This isn't entirely true. The First Amendment provides a lot of protection for written expression, but Frank McCoy went to jail a few years back on obscenity charges when a court found that his stories didn't qualify for First Amendment protection.

For clarity, I rewrote one of the lines quoted in my post. From "not regulated" to "federally protected."

The US ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) website I was directed to when I searched "US v Frank McCoy" says that the Minnesota USA resident was under ICE surveillance for distributing "stories," (I assume overseas) and he was initially actually charged with "one count of transporting obscene material."

"A subsequent search, made at the request of his U.S. Probation Officer, revealed the computers contained dozens of videos of child exploitation. Evidence at trial further demonstrated that McCoy had installed forensic-wiping software on his computers in order to destroy any evidence of child exploitation images."

He accepted "121 months in federal prison, and 10 years supervised release following his prison sentence." Obviously in a plea-bargain which prosecutors love because it muddies the waters.

(ICE>NEWSROOM>MARCH 2016>MINNEAPOLIS, MN>CHILD EXPLOITATION)

As a mother and grandmother, I abhor abuse of children (and adults). But being under surveillance is never a good thing. My take is he aroused suspicion on something iffy (stories, protected if fiction, criminal if not), the authorities dug and they found enough evidence of greater crimes (images, which undeniably involved real children).

The policeman who stops you for not signalling a lane change (something that is pretty much impossible to disprove) can search the car and find other evidence of other completely unrelated crimes. And if the law gets written like the rules here ...

Which is my real issue. The rules as posted here, that just thinking about someone's body being desirable is sex, means that everyone on earth has engaged in an underage sex act. Most likely everyone here is also guilty of engaging in incest, probably while underage. Unless you were an orphan, who didn't see a parent or sibling's ___ growing up. Or think they were better looking more desirable to the opposite ... There you go, having incestual thoughts.

Orwell told us what happens when thoughts and not actions are crimes.

Pretend it is the 'bad old days' -- that was what six or seven years ago in the US, some places it's today -- The web site Errrotica's rules say you can't advocate anything illegal where their website can be legally viewed. (A ridiculously vague rule.) Being gay is illegal in Arguemenistan -- where the whole population is glued to the Errrotica GB -- so it's against Errrotica's rules to advocate being gay.

Advocate, not trash. So ignorant fucks from Argumenistan (or anywhere else) can come on Errrotica and say that "anal sex makes your dick turn black and fall off." I didn't provide instructions, I said "That isn't true." and cited three Major University sources when asked why I said it wasn't true. I didn't say to do it, or give instructions. I said the equivalent of "the movie 'Reefer Madness is complete BS," check out what the NHS says on the subject. That was ruled "advocating."

When there are so many rules that everyone is in violation of many at the same time it is exactly the same situation as when there are no rules. The powerful may act capriciously, pick and choose which rules they enforce against which kinks, or which individual people or groups. (And by powerful I don't mean the site owner. She cannot operate if others wont process her receipts, and she'll go broke if she fights pointless legal battles with outside funded anti-sex ideologues).

 

[oggbashan]

How many people actually do that, though? I sure as hell don't. If I get bored or start cringing, I'm gone. I'm sure it actually happens, but it's a matter of whether its statistically significant enough to amount to a fart in a whirlwind LOL

When I post a new story, I get downvotes before the reader has had time to read the story.

(It is a result of challenging fact-averse posters on the Politics Board. They can't produce a rational argument so just trash my stories.)

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

When I post a new story, I get downvotes before the reader has had time to read the story.

It's that darned Sir Thomas Moore and all his followers. (Avitar reference.)

 

[oggbashan]

It's that darned Sir Thomas Moore and all his followers. (Avitar reference.)

It is also people that believe everything is either A or B with no graduation, and if you support A you are un-American, a Marxist, a traitor - or if you support B you are a Trumptard, a fascist, etc.

They cannot process statistics that suggest that something MIGHT be true, but there are provisos.

 

[Sextified]

I don't know if it's feasible, but I thought that a solution to many of the problems on this site would be individually-tailored Literotica. Whenever anyone scores a story at 3 or less, or reports a story for any reason, it would disappear from "their" Literotica forever. Any future log-in on their account would no longer display that story or any reference to it.

Readers could also have the option to remove all stories with any tag or category they find offensive, and they could completely remove an author they don't like. For the reader, it would quickly pare down the site, leaving only stories they are interested in reading. For authors, it would reduce the incessant bombing of our stories, and it would severely curtail some of the negative, trollish comments. If someone hated your story and gave it a 1, it would disappear before they could add an insulting comment.

I can only wonder what LW would look like after that...

My old website has both free and paid subscriber sections. All new stories go up for thirty days on the "Free' side to be evaluated by ALL of the readers. Those new works reaching a certain score, a certain number of views, and a certain number of votes make it into the "Archives". Only paying readers and authors can access that exclusive section of 'proven' good stories. Stories failing to reach that bar simply disappear after the trial period.

The 'Free' side of the site only shows the new stories, giving the contributing authors a good chance of having their most recent works getting read first. The scrubbed 'pool' of stories in the 'Archive' is a TINY fraction of the mass of stories all jumbled up on Lit.

Many writers will rework a promising rejected story, and use the comments to make it better. Some categories have really low viewerships though, and an otherwise 'good' and well received story will get dropped for too few reads. Authors can appeal to the website owner, and they usually have no problem adding a low performing chapter from a continuing successful series into the Archives.

Random gawkers who notoriously down vote stories can't get to the Archives unless they have a paid account. Both the Admin and the Authors have real tools to track the effects of habitual and chronic Low Voters. Plenty of times I had 1 bombs on a 40,000+ word chapter just minutes after it became available.

The Archives there ARE very nice to browse thru, but there is still no guarantee that you will find a story that YOU personally like there better than here. It's just that the marginal stories have been eliminated, and the potential pool of choices are so much smaller.

The downside of their structure is that overall readership has been dropping like a stone for years. As is the total number of stories being posted there. Authors tend to go where they get readers and quality comments. Worse, long form erotica and true novels get all tied up in the Archives. Chapter 14 shows up on the 'Free' side, and who wants to read it, especially if it's spoiler ridden?

A very popular Porn Clip site has a neat learning AI that tracks what a user watches, favorites and votes on. Simply hit the 'Recommended" button, and dozens of similar videos and images pop up. Not cheap to program, I'd guess. It's even resettable! Just restart that feature, and you can see unscreened choices again.

I really don't think that any major changes can happen on Lit anymore. It's too massive. Too crowded. Too unwieldy to reprogram.

That is precisely why I think that the stress and fights over voting has gotten so bad. The coveted "Red H", Editor's Choice, and Contest Winner buttons are wonderful, but they seem to be the only way to differentiate stories these days.

- - - No matter what rules we have, or could have, Gamesmanship will still happen and will still skew the results. - - -

The 'Advanced' search feature options on Lit is still the way I find most of my reading material. I also follow certain authors and prolific readers. I like to click on what THEY have in their favorites, and browse thru their lists. That's a good way to discover new writers.

So while I am all for deleting 'underperforming' stories, and tightening the rules for what can even get posted here in the first place? I am quite sure that such efforts will start the same sort of downward spiral here as it has done for so many other 'Free' websites.


- - - Read, Follow, Favorite, Comment, Vote, Repeat. - - -


The more 'Good' readers and writers we have who do that, the better the main website will be.

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

It is also people that believe everything is either A or B ... They cannot process statistics that suggest that something MIGHT be true, but there are provisos.

I wasn't taught that things were black or white. But as I've aged I've come to believe that on the spectrum -- I digress, but in terms of mental health we are ALL "on the spectrum" -- pure black and pure white may merely be abstractions. Everything seems to be a shade of grey.

 

[AvroAnsonXIX]

No matter what rules we have, or could have, Gamesmanship will still happen and will still skew the results.

Which I believe, and believe explains everything in a nutshell. Effort expended to change anything, unless it can be of demonstrated benefit, is at best wasted energy and at worst counter productive.

 

[SamScribble]

A little bit of satire certainly provokes conversation.

 

[lovecraft68]

I read that story. She was actually 11 dog-years old, so it's fine.

Oh...so she was a granny!
Wow, I feel foolish now. Nothing wrong with some gilf rape.

 

[lovecraft68]

How many people actually do that, though? I sure as hell don't. If I get bored or start cringing, I'm gone. I'm sure it actually happens, but it's a matter of whether its statistically significant enough to amount to a fart in a whirlwind LOL

Unless there is something very jarring within the first few paragraphs I will stubbornly stick to a book or story...could be a form of OCD