genre writers: Do you know a good online source about demonology?

[hylas_]

So, I absolutely love this wiki page about christian angelic hirarchies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy

According to some teachings, there are different kinds of angels: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, etc.

I'm trying to find similar information about types of demons. It doesn't necessarily need to be christian in nature, although I'd want it to be religious/occult/spiritual, rather than fictional. I found plenty of lists with names of individual demons, but practically nothing on the various kinds of demons. Can somebody by chance help me out here?

I'd also be interested in general in other interesting and inspiring sources on demons (and angels, and deities, and other mythological creatures). Perhaps this thread can become a kind of library with various useful links to interesting sources?

No offense meant towards people who actually take those teachings seriously. I'd just like to have some good sources for my genre writing.

 

[emap]

Unless you pay the $20 for a book there isn't one. Wiki has as much information as any other place on demonology, Here.

Now if you are doing a story based in hell you may as well get the D&D books and use the creatures and levels described therein. In regular old Christian there are three places, heaven, hell, and purgatory. There is a ruler of heaven and hell and then there is everything else of two different things. There are souls, damned and otherwise, and demons or angels. Demons are fallen angels who lord over hell and plot to take over heaven.

If you want to add them succubus and incubus are two different things, either demons who are in charge of doing this or damned souls who choose to work their way up to being demons. At least I think that was how it went, teachings on succubus and incubus are rather rare so I only caught that in reference to succubus once. May have been a fantasy novel I was reading I don't remember.

 

[3113]

I found plenty of lists with names of individual demons, but practically nothing on the various kinds of demons. Can somebody by chance help me out here?

I'd also be interested in general in other interesting and inspiring sources on demons (and angels, and deities, and other mythological creatures). Perhaps this thread can become a kind of library with various useful links to interesting sources?

I don't know one exclusively on demons, but there is the Occultopedia.

 

[Bramblethorn]

So, I absolutely love this wiki page about christian angelic hirarchies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_angelic_hierarchy

According to some teachings, there are different kinds of angels: Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones, Dominions, Virtues, etc.

I'm trying to find similar information about types of demons. It doesn't necessarily need to be christian in nature, although I'd want it to be religious/occult/spiritual, rather than fictional. I found plenty of lists with names of individual demons, but practically nothing on the various kinds of demons. Can somebody by chance help me out here?

For a "modern" Christian take on it: http://www.demonbuster.com/ is pretty demented, but has plenty of "information" about different demons and what they do. My favourite article title from that site is: "Diabetes - Squid like demons attack ten parts of your body".

For a 19th-century version, you might want to look up Montague Summers. I've got one of his books on vampires, which he viewed as a class of demons. It's basically a collection of different regional folk myths with some theorising; I can't speak to the quality of his scholarship but could certainly be used as inspiration for fiction.

 

[lovecraft68]

The above post beat me to it

Montague Summers history or witchcraft and demonology. I'm looking at it on my book case right now.

 

[emap]

The above post beat me to it

Montague Summers history or witchcraft and demonology. I'm looking at it on my book case right now.

Oh my, lovecraft you have sunk to a new low.

I did forget one site though it is the oddest thing, it has most of the folk lore creatures listed on it and demons are included. Except demons don't come to earth, they are spirits that will possess a person. Which isn't that outlandish an idea really, but he goes on to talk about how you don't want to ever say the name of a demon. One of said demons is named Sarah.

Which honestly means most of the world is fucked because Sarah is a pretty common name. I shit you not there was a guy in my grade school with Sarah as his middle name. Grandma's name and she had just passed on right before he was born so it makes sense to name your new kid after her.

Still though, saying a demon name gets the attention of the demon and it will strive to possess you, feel sorry for the lover of Sarah who says her name often.

Oh shoot I forgot the link, but then again it's not worth a look anyway. I looked since I was curious and it's the same thing as what every other one has, Satan leads hell and there are many demons under his rule.

 

[lovecraft68]

Oh my, lovecraft you have sunk to a new low.

I did forget one site though it is the oddest thing, it has most of the folk lore creatures listed on it and demons are included. Except demons don't come to earth, they are spirits that will possess a person. Which isn't that outlandish an idea really, but he goes on to talk about how you don't want to ever say the name of a demon. One of said demons is named Sarah.

Which honestly means most of the world is fucked because Sarah is a pretty common name. I shit you not there was a guy in my grade school with Sarah as his middle name. Grandma's name and she had just passed on right before he was born so it makes sense to name your new kid after her.

Still though, saying a demon name gets the attention of the demon and it will strive to possess you, feel sorry for the lover of Sarah who says her name often.

Oh shoot I forgot the link, but then again it's not worth a look anyway. I looked since I was curious and it's the same thing as what every other one has, Satan leads hell and there are many demons under his rule.

You did have a good point with D&D though they did have some good creations, especially in the original Fiend Folio.

Another source of demons is actually any detailed book about angels because it features many fallen ones.

 

[MSTarot]

you could try Japaneses culture as well they have a lot of them fairly well described.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_from_Japan

Use to play a RPG game called 'Buishido'. Believe me there are a lot of things in old Japan mythology that will eat your face in the middle of the night.

Most are now doing low budget Manga movies now though.

 

[lovecraft68]

You can always go Lovecraftian and pick up some Call of Cthulhu rpg manuals.

 

[emap]

There are no demons in Japanese mythos, it is all spirits that takes forms like dragons, Cuppa, which are rather like mutant ninja turtles with a bowl of water on their head. I mean the diversity of spirits the Japanese denoted is rather staggering, and all of them had a god. They governed specific things, fairly sure emotions was one of them.

There were good and bad spirits, not because one decided it's evil. Nope, the bad spirits are bad because they are opposite of good and you must have both. Ying and Yang basically in a Celestial Beauracracy that had 10,000 gods I think it was.

 

[Bramblethorn]

You can always go Lovecraftian and pick up some Call of Cthulhu rpg manuals.

Gaming-wise, "In Nomine" is also worth a look - it's all about angels vs demons in a Christian-ish framework. It has the different choirs of angels (Cherubim/Seraphim/etc) with demonic counterparts.

One of the game concepts was that angels and demons can become assigned to a particular word. The demon princes have big important words like Lust, Gluttony, Technology... but if you piss off Lucifer you can end up assigned to something like Stale Bong Water.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Here is a very sincere Satanist website's take on demons;
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/AllDemons.html

 

[manyeyedhydra]

I prefer the HP Lovecraft approach - make it all up and add enough cross-references to make it sound like a plausible mythology.

The problem with sticking too close to the reference material is everyone else using the same reference material ends up following the same path (eg. naming their succubus character Lilith) and the stories end up being predictable and a little samey.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay, I'm gonna hijack the thread for a similar question.

I have a human mutation that is not legally protected-- considered intillectually disabled or something, and is chattel status and is really cute and appealing-- people want to keep them as pets.

Aside from the outrageously problematic implications of my concept, anyone have any idea what I could call them? I'm going with 'imp' for now. The culture would def. want to deny their human heritage. Also, 'succubi' since of course this is porn. But something made up and not in common use would be real sweet.

Best suggestion gets a lollipop?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Okay, I'm gonna hijack the thread for a similar question.

I have a human mutation that is not legally protected-- considered intillectually disabled or something, and is chattel status and is really cute and appealing-- people want to keep them as pets.

Aside from the outrageously problematic implications of my concept, anyone have any idea what I could call them? I'm going with 'imp' for now. The culture would def. want to deny their human heritage. Also, 'succubi' since of course this is porn. But something made up and not in common use would be real sweet.

Best suggestion gets a lollipop?

Would chibi work? Maybe abbreviated to "chibs"?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Would chibi work? Maybe abbreviated to "chibs"?

That's too commonly used, actually hella lotta weeaboos around...

 

[Paul_Chance]

How about "The Slight" or "Slighters" - indicating less than human status and conjuring mental images of slender frailty.

 

[Darkniciad]

Nondas.

Comes from "Nonda's Syndrome" named for the foremost researcher of the disease.

People could call them "Nons".

 

[emap]

Well you could call them emaps, but then that is a little I'm awesome thinking there.

I think first let's back it up, mutations happen fairly often. Mostly they are small things that may or may not stay a part of a person to adult to be passed on. Not always are they passed on either, nature is a little odd but it always makes sense in a survival way.

Anyway, so mutations that are passed on always start with one person unless there is an outside source providing the stimulus for the mutation. So, generally when something new comes along it is named for either the first person with it, or the person who categorized it. Sometimes it is known as the most famous person to get it, like Lou Gherig's Disease, he wasn't the first just the best known victim of it.

Which means, you can name them most anything you want. Stellas running around would work. Course I don't think of you like that so you can pick a better name. Rose and roses actually sounds pretty good, everybody likes a rose [the plant] so then people who are like a pet would be called rose or roses if there is a bunch.

 

[slyc_willie]

Relating to the OP . . . .

I have about a dozen books on angelic/demonic mythology. Naturally, the majority are written from a Christian point of view and go into great detail about the supposed history of angels, their hierarchy, and the circumstances around which an angel becomes a demon. I think the crux of the matter lies in the use of those terms. For the most part, whenever anyone sees the words "angel" or "demon," they are looking at those creatures from a Christian point of view, since they are so prevalent in that religion and culture and have become iconic.

Angels represent all this is good, orderly, and righteous. They therefore lend themselves naturally to an ordered hierarchy. As the opposite of angels, demons are chaotic and disruptive. They have no real hierarchy -- other than that Satan is their lord and master -- because demons are not orderly. There are types, but even those blur the lines. Demons do what they want, when they want, and fuck whoever or whatever gets in their way.

When it comes to classifying demonic creatures, I would say you would have free reign to create whatever you wish. It all depends on the context.

Borrowing from other cultures is a little tricky, because English versions of Chinese, Japanese, Indian and other sources insert the terms angel and demon when convenient. The Japanese entities known as "Oni" are often synonymous with "demon," but as Emap pointed out, Japanese culture does not necessarily see them as evil. Not all cultures think the same way, after all. In some, there are no concepts of good and evil, just grades of cruelty, righteousness, selfishness and generosity.

 

[slyc_willie]

And, onto Stella's query . . . .

I would suggest the term "demi-human," and then just call them demis for short. This would allude to their basic human origins, but remove them from being considered as true humans.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I use 19th Century paranormal journals for much of my source materials. The old alienist journals contain marvelous stuff, especially if youre racist like me. Alienists were psychiatrists back about 1900.

GOOGLE The Alienist and Neurologist

 

[hylas_]

Thanks everybody so far!

Some of those sites are very intersting. Also, the more spiritual somebody is, the less they know about web-design. Or so it seems.

What little I can find about demonic hirarchies is not very useful so far. But since one definition of demons is "fallen angel", I guess I could just use the angelic hirarchies and "invert" them. "Arch-Demon" instead of "Arch-Angel". "Thornes" instead of "Thrones". I have to think a little more about the other classes.

I knew about Incubi and Succubi, and I find them very interesting and definitely want to include them in my writing sometime. But they are too specific, I also need some more generic demon classes that aren't as explicitly sexual.

I definitely feel more comfortable using christan, roman, greek, norse, and celtic mythology as inspiration. I never was religious, but I feel like I have a feeling for those teachings, because I mostly grew up in Europe. Also, being inspired by (aka stealing from) white people is always less problematic, and rightfully so. Sorry, white people. I also have Japanese ancestry, but I'm definitely more careful there, since I have a mostly European perspective.

Stella: I actually like "Imp" quite a lot, since it immediately gives me a rough idea of what we're dealing with. I generally dislike sci-fi/tantasy works with too many made-up words.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I had a Demon/angel romance thing rolling around in my head for quite a while, but SPN was popular and the biblical stuff gave me the hives.
My version was that Demons functioned a bit like gangsters-- Although there is a heirarchy, it's liable to be toppled any time someone had gathered enough power to do so. The courts can get pretty riotous, with power displays liable to erupt at any time.... dammit, now I wan to get back to it!

Also, there really isn't much difference between angels and demons. Both eat human energy. Angels prefer the energy that gets stirred up by belief, and try to foment religious fervor. Demons are less particular. Fights, orgies... They too would show up in churches, but angels defend that as their territory.

I seem to be going with 'imp' for my characters, in common parlance. There probably would be a scientific name!

 

[hylas_]

^ It should be a scientific sounding term that can be logically shortened to "Imp", then.

I like the idea about angels and demons "eating" human energies. I never heard that before. It gives me an idea, though. Angels eat joy, Demons eat pain. Which makes latter sound terrible; except, pain is not necessarily a bad thing. And so we get some "consentual BDSM Demon" ^^