Genghis, jr.

[3113]

Here he is, descendent of one of the world's greatest conquerors (though the proof is a bit dubious):

http://www.sploid.com/images/2006/06/robinsonkhan.jpg

Genghis, jr.

LONDON - Tom Robinson had long wondered about his family tree. He never suspected its roots might lie in the Mongolian steppe.

The Florida accountant knew that his great, great-grandfather had come to the United States from England — but beyond that his research drew a blank. So he turned to the burgeoning field of "bioarchaeology," having his DNA tested to see what it revealed about his origins.

He was in for a surprise. According to a British geneticist who pioneered the research, Robinson appears to be a direct descendant of Genghis Khan, the Mongol warrior who conquered vast tracts of Asia and Europe in the 13th century.

Robinson said he was startled when he received a call from the firm Oxford Ancestors about a surprising ancestor uncovered by his DNA tests.

"My first impression was, 'Oh no, who is it' — imagining it was Adolf Hitler or something like that," said Robinson, 48. "So I was actually pleasantly surprised."

Robinson thinks his forebear, whose name has long been a byword for violence and cruelty, has had a bad press.

"In addition to being a conqueror, he was a great administrator," said Robinson, who has been reading up on Genghis Khan. "Their system of governance was fairly sophisticated."

Established in 2001 by Oxford University geneticist Bryan Sykes, Oxford Ancestors offers DNA testing to people around the world eager to trace their genetic roots.

Sykes believes DNA can be used to map humanity's common ancestry. In 1994, he extracted DNA from a frozen 5,000-year-old corpse found in the Tyrolean Alps, and identified a woman living in Britain as his descendant.

Sykes' 2001 book "The Seven Daughters of Eve" claimed that 95 percent of Europeans are descended from seven tribal matriarchs — he dubbed them Ursula, Xenia, Helena, Velda, Tara, Katrine and Jasmine — who lived between 10,000 and 45,000 years ago.

He also believes most Europeans can trace their descent to "Five Sons of Adam," and offers tests to identify these paternal ancestral clans by mapping patterns of DNA within the Y chromosome, the genetic material handed down from fathers to sons that changes little over generations.

Women have two X chromosomes, while men carry one X chromosome and one Y, so only men can take the paternal ancestry test.

Research published in the American Journal of Human Genetics in 2003 suggested that 16 to 17 million men, most in Central Asia, shared a form of the Y chromosome that indicates a common ancestor.

Sykes said the obvious candidate is Genghis Khan, who stormed the world with his armies, conquering territory and siring many children. Lacking any tissue samples from the Mongol ruler — whose tomb has never been found — the tests are based on an assessment of probabilities.

"This is circumstantial evidence but it is very good evidence," said Sykes. "I think it does mean that people who carry this chromosome are direct patrilineal descendants of Genghis Khan.

"How this chromosome came to be so prominent was that when he conquered new territory Genghis Khan would kill the men and routinely inseminate all the women."

Some scientists are less certain the chromosome points directly to the Mongol chief.

"It's a little bit of a stretch as far as I'm concerned," said Peter Underhill, a Stanford University geneticist who thinks the distinctive Y chromosome would have been present in many members of Genghis Khan's closely interrelated tribe.

"Genghis Khan had this marker, but Joe Smith in the Genghis Khan army also had this Y chromosome."

Proven or not, Robinson's link may well make him a celebrity in Mongolia, a vast country of 2.5 million sandwiched between China and Russia renowned for its rolling grasslands, sturdy horses and nomadic herders.

This year the country is celebrating the 800th anniversary of 1206, the year a warrior named Temujin united the nomadic steppe tribes and took the title Genghis Khan — Universal Ruler.

He and his descendants built — and then lost — an empire that stretched from the Sea of Japan to the Danube.

Condemned during Mongolia's 70 years of communist rule as a symbol of a backward past, Genghis Khan is now celebrated by Mongolians as the father of their nation

Many Western academics also have reassessed the great Khan's legacy, arguing that he was a brilliant military tactician, innovative ruler and early globalizer whose empire saw an unprecedented mingling of goods and cultures along the Silk Road trade route linking China to Europe.

Robinson, an associate professor of accountancy at the University of Miami, said he hoped to travel to Mongolia next year.

He's begun to wonder about similarities between himself and his purported ancestor. He has no military background, but says he is comfortable in a leadership role.

"When I practiced as a CPA I ran the department."

And, like any self-respecting Mongolian, he can ride a horse.

"I can, though I don't often do it. You don't get much chance to ride a horse in Florida."

 

[Jagged]

That is impressive....hell of a thing to find out really. Says something for a family line to last this long. That I am sure Genghis Khan would be proud of that fact.



My ancestors only brushed with a few famous figures, but it is amazing to look back and know they worked hard and continued on our family line. Good people doing their part in history.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

I read that too just a couple hours ago. My impression is the same as you, 3113. A bit dubious. Anytime you are talking about how good the circumstantial evidence is in a genetics claim....

 

[snooper]

... Says something for a family line to last this long ...

Am I missing something? I always thought that everyone alive today had ancestors going back for thousands of years. Also since the population of the whole world was quite small a few thousand years ago, most of us are related to most of them.

 

[neonlyte]

Am I missing something? I always thought that everyone alive today had ancestors going back for thousands of years. Also since the population of the whole world was quite small a few thousand years ago, most of us are related to most of them.

Snooper - good to see you posting on AH again.
You are missing nothing I think Yahoo were having a slow news day.

 

[R. Richard]

Am I missing something? I always thought that everyone alive today had ancestors going back for thousands of years. Also since the population of the whole world was quite small a few thousand years ago, most of us are related to most of them.

Yes, I think so. I have had several bosses in the past whom I am quite sure were descended from mutated bacteria. I have no proof, just a very strong gut feeling.

 

[Salvor-Hardon]

Can we get teh UN to do something globally that forbids news agencies from posting crap stories just because teh good stuff takes a few days?

I'd give a kidney to see a headline of "Nothing happened in the past 24 hours we haven't already covered".

 

[Recidiva]

This is interesting considering Ghenghis Khan's body and resting place has never been found.

How exactly did they get a sample?

 

[NoJo]

This is interesting considering Ghenghis Khan's body and resting place has never been found.

How exactly did they get a sample?

I saw him in a shopping mall in San Dimas in '85.

 

[Recidiva]

I saw him in a shopping mall in San Dimas in '85.

Party on, Joe!

(San Dimas High School Football Rules!)

 

[Tom Collins]

"My first impression was, 'Oh no, who is it' — imagining it was Adolf Hitler or something like that," said Robinson, 48. "So I was actually pleasantly surprised."

Robinson thinks his forebear, whose name has long been a byword for violence and cruelty, has had a bad press.

"In addition to being a conqueror, he was a great administrator," said Robinson, who has been reading up on Genghis Khan. "Their system of governance was fairly sophisticated."

Ok...let me get this straight...this putz was worried it might be someone like Hitler but Genghis Khan is ok?

So, it's fine that he swept across Asia and Europe, slautering, raping and pilaging as he went because it happened 700 years ago instead of 70? It's ok that he had any male either unfit for his army or who refused to join it murdered and made it policy that all females of breeding age be raped in hopes of impregnation so the population could be taken over from the inside as well as the outside because he was a good administrator? Hitler was a good administrator, wasn't he?

If this guy had found out that he was related to Hitler I'm sure he would find ways to prove he was a good guy and not a psyco.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm reading this as the scientific version of 'past lives'.

No one who believes in 'past lives' was ever a stable hand in some unknown inn in the Pyrenees, never a morphine addicted whore who died of syphilis in 19th Century Paris, never a serf worked to death on a fief in the 10th Century.

No, they were always someone famous, or at least mildly important.

Both are ways to avoid admitting to yourself that, "I'm just your average, everyday shlub."

 

[Tom Collins]

I'm reading this as the scientific version of 'past lives'.

No one who believes in 'past lives' was ever a stable hand in some unknown inn in the Pyrenees, never a morphine addicted whore who died of syphilis in 19th Century Paris, never a serf worked to death on a fief in the 10th Century.

No, they were always someone famous, or at least mildly important.

Both are ways to avoid admitting to yourself that, "I'm just your average, everyday shlub."

Sir Rob...you've been reading the transcripts of my regression therapy! Admit it!

 

[Recidiva]

I'm reading this as the scientific version of 'past lives'.

No one who believes in 'past lives' was ever a stable hand in some unknown inn in the Pyrenees, never a morphine addicted whore who died of syphilis in 19th Century Paris, never a serf worked to death on a fief in the 10th Century.

No, they were always someone famous, or at least mildly important.

Both are ways to avoid admitting to yourself that, "I'm just your average, everyday shlub."

This isn't true. There are lots and lots of non-historical past experiences.

We try to stay away from the folks that claim to be Cleopatra.

I'm sure someone was, somewhere, but there just aren't that many of 'em, unless you subscribe to a split soul theory.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

This is interesting considering Ghenghis Khan's body and resting place has never been found.

How exactly did they get a sample?

They didn't get a sample. That's what makes it all so dubious. Instead, he shares a trace with tons of other people in Central Asia who have some unknown common ancestor. Since Genghis was the one running around raping hundreds of women, the scientist concludes it must be him. Pretty tenuous, I think.

 

[NoJo]

I think it's possible, but think of the amount of genetic "dilution" that occurs in 800 years -- which is over 30 generations. I think there must be a lot of Gengis's spawn walking the planet right now.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

Ok...let me get this straight...this putz was worried it might be someone like Hitler but Genghis Khan is ok?

So, it's fine that he swept across Asia and Europe, slautering, raping and pilaging as he went because it happened 700 years ago instead of 70? It's ok that he had any male either unfit for his army or who refused to join it murdered and made it policy that all females of breeding age be raped in hopes of impregnation so the population could be taken over from the inside as well as the outside because he was a good administrator? Hitler was a good administrator, wasn't he?

If this guy had found out that he was related to Hitler I'm sure he would find ways to prove he was a good guy and not a psyco.

I have to agree with Tom Collins. Khan was probably worse than Hitler. He murdered all the men he could and he and his followers raped as many women as they could, besides all the looting and burning. Hitler was bad enough but not such a total scoundrel.

I've noticed that most "national heroes" were conquerors and imperialists. King Kamehameha was the national hero of Hawaii because he conquered everybody else. Garibaldi is the Italian national hero because he was a Sardinian who conquered Sicily and the Italian peninsula to unite the nation of Italy. Julius Caesar is considered to be a great man because he conquered so much territory. The same can be said of Napoleon and Peter the Great and Frederick the Great and Saladin and many others.

Simon Bolivar and George Washington are national heroes but they were revolutionaries who led the overthrow of a colonian power.

 

[M-Y-Erotica]

I have to agree with Tom Collins. Khan was probably worse than Hitler. He murdered all the men he could and he and his followers raped as many women as they could, besides all the looting and burning. Hitler was bad enough but not such a total scoundrel.

I've noticed that most "national heroes" were conquerors and imperialists. King Kamehameha was the national hero of Hawaii because he conquered everybody else. Garibaldi is the Italian national hero because he was a Sardinian who conquered Sicily and the Italian peninsula to unite the nation of Italy. Julius Caesar is considered to be a great man because he conquered so much territory. The same can be said of Napoleon and Peter the Great and Frederick the Great and Saladin and many others.

Simon Bolivar and George Washington are national heroes but they were revolutionaries who led the overthrow of a colonian power.

Agreed, as long as we don't lump all these people together as equivalent. King Kamehameha conquered the other isles, but he didn't slaughter entire cities. I know you weren't saying this. (Just, FYI, we will be celebrating Kamehameha Day here on Monday.) If we are trying to judge the characters of the past, I think we both 1) have to use our best current moral judgements and 2) compare them to others at the time. The thing about both Hitler and Ghengis was that they were beyond the pale both absolutely and at their time. Ghengis wasn't considered a monster at the time because of the abduction of women. Conquering a place, taking all their stuff, and grabbing a few thousand slaves was par for the course (though perhaps Ghengis did the raping even more; I don't know). After all, those legendary heroes of the Trojan War, Agamemnon and Achilles, were fighting over who got to keep the hot slave to sleep with. Achilles wasn't seen as morally flawed for wanting to take a slave and use her. He was flawed because he got so pissy about it he refused to even help his comrades in arms anymore so that thousands dies while he sat sulking.

Anyway, one of the things the great khan did which was considered barbaric even at the time was putting every single man, woman, and child to the sword in a city of a quarter million if they resisted. Of course, there was a military purpose to that. When people hear you will do this, they will give up. Whether or not this is anything like dropping a nuke on Hiroshima..., I'm too ignorant to know. Probably different. I think Ghengis' abuses were far more rampant and taken with a lot more glee than the American agonizing decision to knowingly kill children to end the war quickly.

Geez, hope that doesn't start a fight. I was just thinking about it as I wrote and I have no idea of the answer.

Update: OK, one way it was definitely different is what the purpose was. Nukes were used in WWII to end the fighting. Khan wasn't planning on ever ending the fighting. He was going to conquer until the entire world was his. So the purposes are similar in that you knowingly kill innocents for some military objective, but they are very, very different because the purposes are so different. The Americans were hoping to bring peace; Khan was hoping to continue war.