gender stuff

[dr_mabeuse]

Just what do you mean by "shebang," love? Sexual intercourse? Foreplay? Gay sex? Pitching or catching?

Speaking for myself, I would say foreplay's probably pretty similar to a woman's experience. I would differ with 3113 though in saying that I don't think the penis is like a clit. The head of the penis is maybe more like a clit--pretty sensitive--but the shaft itself enjoys rougher treatment. I don't think many women would enjoy having their clit squeezed and jerked up and down, but you can do that to my dick anytime. In fact, I think the most common mistake women make in playing with a guy's dick is that they're too gentle. I mean, gentle's nice for a while, but after a while you want it rough. The head's very friction sensitive though. Rub your palm over the head of a guy's cock and I think he's going to find it too painful. I'm always reading in blow job stories about her sweeping her tonmgue around thehead of his cock. Once or twice is okay, but too much of that and I have to ask you to stop. It's just too senseitive.

I think most men get very physical during lovemaking and express a lot of possessive emotions and actions. Again, I can only speak for myself, but there's a physical urge to grasp and hold and squeeze and push--a need for contact and deep physicality. Stroking and caressing are okay at the start, but when I get inside and I'm close, I tend to get rough--hard thrusting, big-muscle stuff, deep and hard. I need to thrust to get off, and if I don't, the orgasm doesn't feel as profound and fulfilling. I guess I could come from being tickled with a feather, but it would be an emotionally shallow and superficial climax. I've got to feel the power from thrusting from my ass and my thighs to really fuel the explosion. I've never been able to lie back and lety someone suck to to orgasm, I always end up pushing and thrusting at the end. It just goes with the explosion.

That's the other thing. Men always have that finish line in sight--the big O. We rush towards it and then try and put on the brakes to make the sex last, and our lovemaking is a result of the tension between the two, the need to try and stretch out the pleasure and the need to just let it go and explode. Women don't seem to be as constantly tense during sex (or is your snoring a sign of pleasure?)

On the catching side of a homosexual experience, I've only had a few, but one of the things that struck me was what happens from having your prostate massaged like that. You kind of drool come throughout the experience. It just drizzles from your cock.

I still want to be pegged by a girl with a strap-on someday. I want to see if being the penetrator will automatically make her act more like a man or whether she'll fuck the way she'd like to be fucked or what. All I have to go on is some movies I've seen, in which the women's motions seem pretty mechanical, with none of a man's urgency.

 

[3113]

Well, if we're mentioning fave authors in the gay male category, I'd add our own Artisticbiguy.

Some very sensual man-on-man sex.

 

[3113]

I would differ with 3113 though in saying that I don't think the penis is like a clit. The head of the penis is maybe more like a clit

I agree that it's more head than the entire penis, shaft included, but if a woman is looking to know what a penis feels like, it's the only thing she's got--and there are some things a clit does that are similar to a penis, like getting engorged with blood, etc.

I grant that it's not the actual item and never will be, but you take what you can get when trying to imagine the experience of the opposite sex.

Men always have that finish line in sight--the big O. We rush towards it and then try and put on the brakes to make the sex last, and our lovemaking is a result of the tension between the two, the need to try and stretch out the pleasure and the need to just let it go and explode. Women don't seem to be as constantly tense during sex

What? You've never had a woman scream "Harder! Faster! Deeper!"? The ladies may not be rushing for the endzone, but they're, er, energized enough to enthuiastically cheer you guys on

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I agree that it's more head than the entire penis, shaft included, but if a woman is looking to know what a penis feels like, it's the only thing she's got--and there are some things a clit does that are similar to a penis, like getting engorged with blood, etc.

I grant that it's not the actual item and never will be, but you take what you can get when trying to imagine the experience of the opposite sex.


What? You've never had a woman scream "Harder! Faster! Deeper!"? The ladies may not be rushing for the endzone, but they're, er, energized enough to enthuiastically cheer you guys on

Usually they yell, "Get off! Get off!" and I always thought they were cheering me on to come. Then I realized they probably meant it literally.

No, really, when I saw Ent's original question. I thought about the difference between the way men and women do sex, and I thought about telling her to treat male lovers like females without boobs and with dicks where their clits should be. But I really think that would be all wrong (aside from the anatomy) and I was trying to figure out what the difference would be.

It's an interesting question: do men and women make love in fundamentally different ways? Or is it just a matter of anatomy? I think there are fundamental differences.

 

[entitled]

It's an interesting question: do men and women make love in fundamentally different ways? Or is it just a matter of anatomy? I think there are fundamental differences.

Exactly! But i didn't know how to say and ask that. Words fail often. Blame mommy brains.

That being said, you're just awesome. i may pick your brain further, if that's ok.

Now, please, continue discussion.

 

[fifty5]

This is going to sound sexist...

... but in my very limited experience it has mostly been true

Men (read mostly as me) want to do, while women (usually) want to be done.

I have been told to laid back and enjoy (even, on one meorable occasion, by two women together), but despite loving the idea, the reality didn't live up to the anticipation.

In contrast, even the most active of the few women I've been with have seemed to revel in being on the receiving end.

Now I can do the parallel ruler to Rob, so I have no idea whatever if I'm right in fact, but it occurs to me that the above gender rule might illuminate gay sex: there's a clear tension between what I've just written and two guys together - and tension is a big factor in successful fiction. How does the guy being done feel? Is he wanting to turn round and do his lover, is he itching to change places, or not...?

Mind you, I'm talking crap! I've gone totally limp while giving head and can remember the ecstasy of a specific blow job in 1968, even though I've forgotten the pattern of the upholstery in that caravan...

- for what it's worth -

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's probably been asked before, and if it has i apologize. That being said...

i've been considering doing a gay male piece for the nude day competition coming up. Problem is... i don't know what the male body feels like during the whole shebang. Does anybody have any tips or tricks to get into the mindset of the opposite gender and make a story written from that POV more realistic?

If you write from the POV of the bottom, you might describe the sensation of a cock hardening in his mouth. Another thing is that a man can't usually cum just from receiving anal, even with the stimulation of his prostate. He has to wank or somebody has to wank or suck him. Some gay men might want a lot of foreplay but I think most want to just get straight to the main event, especially if you are writing about casual sex. Men, either gay or straight, can enjoy sex with a total stranger, without even learning each other's names and with a minimum of conversation.

 

[Aurora Black]

I think most men get very physical during lovemaking and express a lot of possessive emotions and actions. Again, I can only speak for myself, but there's a physical urge to grasp and hold and squeeze and push--a need for contact and deep physicality. Stroking and caressing are okay at the start, but when I get inside and I'm close, I tend to get rough--hard thrusting, big-muscle stuff, deep and hard. I need to thrust to get off, and if I don't, the orgasm doesn't feel as profound and fulfilling. I guess I could come from being tickled with a feather, but it would be an emotionally shallow and superficial climax. I've got to feel the power from thrusting from my ass and my thighs to really fuel the explosion. I've never been able to lie back and lety someone suck to to orgasm, I always end up pushing and thrusting at the end. It just goes with the explosion.

God... *squirms in chair*

 

[3113]

It's an interesting question: do men and women make love in fundamentally different ways? Or is it just a matter of anatomy? I think there are fundamental differences.

I remember a male-to-female transexual (post-op) being asked this question, and she said yes, that it was a difference. Estrogen is not testosterone and as you pointed out, that aggressive need to thrust and race toward climax, and the way the climax itself feels, is very different. As she went through the transition, she lost that aggression during sex (the desire to explode?) and began to enjoy the slower build-up to longer orgasms.

Hm.
Sidetrack: It occurs to me that there are a lot of metaphors for male orgasm but very few for female in popular culture. The train races through the tunnel, the rocket roars up into the sky, the fireworks explode...but where's the female equilivant?

I think one primary difference, from what I've heard--and one that you pointed out with the remark about being tickled with a feather--is that for a woman, sex is often a whole body experience. There's that Monty Python joke in the Meaning of Life during the sex-education class: "Don't go straight for the clitoris!" There may be some truth there. In gay porn guys often drop right to their knees and start sucking away. For men, it seems logical to go right for the cock, to start wanking, as it were. There's the center of pleasure. And all it needs is some stroking to get it standing, to squeeze the juices to the top (sic).

But with most ladies (very generally speaking), extended foreplay is needed to, er...get the water in the well to rise and overflow? This is because the woman gets stimulated through a lot of her body, every inch of skin, sometimes. To put it very strangely...if the clit is the head of the penis...maybe a woman's whole body is the stem?

Both sides can be aroused by necking and kissing and teasing, but it's telling that guys often do go right for a woman's crotch while women want to explore the guy's body before reaching for the penis. It's telling because we know what we like, so that's what we offer to our partner until they let us know "Um...could you suck on my toes...." and we realize that, no they don't like what we like, they like what they like.

Did that make sense?

 

[Boxlicker101]

I remember a male-to-female transexual (post-op) being asked this question, and she said yes, that it was a difference. Estrogen is not testosterone and as you pointed out, that aggressive need to thrust and race toward climax, and the way the climax itself feels, is very different. As she went through the transition, she lost that aggression during sex (the desire to explode?) and began to enjoy the slower build-up to longer orgasms.

Hm.
Sidetrack: It occurs to me that there are a lot of metaphors for male orgasm but very few for female in popular culture. The train races through the tunnel, the rocket roars up into the sky, the fireworks explode...but where's the female equilivant?

I think one primary difference, from what I've heard--and one that you pointed out with the remark about being tickled with a feather--is that for a woman, sex is often a whole body experience. There's that Monty Python joke in the Meaning of Life during the sex-education class: "Don't go straight for the clitoris!" There may be some truth there. In gay porn guys often drop right to their knees and start sucking away. For men, it seems logical to go right for the cock, to start wanking, as it were. There's the center of pleasure. And all it needs is some stroking to get it standing, to squeeze the juices to the top (sic).

But with most ladies (very generally speaking), extended foreplay is needed to, er...get the water in the well to rise and overflow? This is because the woman gets stimulated through a lot of her body, every inch of skin, sometimes. To put it very strangely...if the clit is the head of the penis...maybe a woman's whole body is the stem?

Both sides can be aroused by necking and kissing and teasing, but it's telling that guys often do go right for a woman's crotch while women want to explore the guy's body before reaching for the penis. It's telling because we know what we like, so that's what we offer to our partner until they let us know "Um...could you suck on my toes...." and we realize that, no they don't like what we like, they like what they like.

Did that make sense?

This is true but men, at least any men that you should be having sex with, very much like to give pleasure. We enjoy the extended foreplay but mainly we go through with it to enhance her pleasure. With two men, there is enough to get a cock hard, but that's all that is needed.

I liked the metaphor in "Deep Throat", depicting Linda Lovelace's orgasm as an exploding skyrocket.

 

[gauchecritic]

So far I've only read about the differences in orgasm between men and women. Men also have different orgasms to other men too. (so I'm told: "I've never seen a man do that before")

But apart from that, in large general terms, men write differently to women.

In my experience (reading on Lit) women tend to write about emotions and men about hapenings. The mental aspects of sexuality versus the visual or purely physical. (someone else might say the emotional versus the reasonable)

I doubt very much that the actual mechanics of sex or orgasm make a whole lot of difference to a reader or even to realism when faced with a female pov from a male character or vice versa.

But then again, we are talking about gay sex and the difference, for want of a better term, between a gay man and an effete man. (did anyone understand that?)

When I explicitly aimed to write a story from a female pov (a fair to middling success) even though I still wrote predominantly about how things felt and looked (the male kind of writing) it was tempered very much by the character thinking about how others thought it looked.

Put simply (and offering the above as proof) only men can talk bollocks.

 

[entitled]

Put simply (and offering the above as proof) only men can talk bollocks.

You've never had a phone conversation with me. Obviously. Hi and bye are too much trouble half the time.

i can see your point, though.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Sidetrack: It occurs to me that there are a lot of metaphors for male orgasm but very few for female in popular culture. The train races through the tunnel, the rocket roars up into the sky, the fireworks explode...but where's the female equilivant?

I don't know if I'm right or not, or if you can even generalize about orgasms between different individuals, but I've always thought of a woman's orgasm as being more of like a spreading, radiating thing. I'm aware too that women experience different types of orgasms, or used to (I know there's been a lot of political controversy over the clitoral vs vaginal theory. I don't know where people stand on that today), so that makes generalizations even riskier.

Men, of course, pretty much explode, and orgasm is almost always associated with ejaculation. The word I find myself using a lot to describe the male orgasm is release - there's a great release of tension and anguish during climax. The orgasm comes as a great relief, a breaking through. There's almost a sense of triumph or victory associated with it.

I've always thought that the best women's orgasms were slower, gentler at first, and more thorough, if you know what I mean. They involve more of the entire body and emotions and aren't as genitally-localized.

The metaphors I tend to use for women's orgasms seem to involve whole body concepts, like shattering or dissolving or sinking or rushing. Women seem to fill up with energy while men seem to empty themselves of it.

Just my ideas, though.

But I'm not good to ask about homosexual male affairs because really, I just can't get past that whole hairy body thing. For me, and affair wouldbe more like, "Yeah, maybe I'll suck it, as long as I don't have to touch your body."

 

[3113]

But I'm not good to ask about homosexual male affairs because really, I just can't get past that whole hairy body thing. For me, and affair wouldbe more like, "Yeah, maybe I'll suck it, as long as I don't have to touch your body."

How about a nice hairless guy who'll give YOU the blowjob and let you do the, er, plowing?

Just curious.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

How about a nice hairless guy who'll give YOU the blowjob and let you do the, er, plowing?

Just curious.

That's a damned good question and a very interesting one. Just why should one choose hetereosexuality over homosexuality or vice versa? What's the essential difference between making love to a woman and making love to a man and why prefer one over the other?

I think I believe that the choice is really biological rather than cultural or social, though of course there are exceptions. But I think it's a matter of hardware, not software, and so it can't be rationally explained.

Leaving aside the fact that it seems that every man who has a sexually beautiful body is more or less a jerk (somewhat true for women too, I suppose, but not as offensive as that guy preening in front of the mirrors in the gym), I guess I'd have to say that I could probably have a physical relationship with another man in the genital sense, but I just couldn't love him the way I love a woman, and the reasons for that are very hard to pin down. That's why I think it's probably biological and beyond analysis.

I've had male friends with whom I've shared all sorts of very deep and personal feelings and intimacies, but still, that kind of closeness is not the same as loving a woman but something qualitatively different. I honestly never had any sexual feelings for the men I was that close to. (I hate it when people assume that men who are emotionally close must be repessed homosexuals. Personal intimacy has nothing to do with sexual intimacy, at least not for me.)

Honestly, I don't know why loving a woman should be so different from loving a man for me, but it is. I think it's something very deep and probably hard-wired in there. There's probably elements of the mother-child relationship and all the comfort and nurturance I associate with a woman's femininity, as welll as the deep satisfaction of her biological other-ness, if that makes any sense. There's an almost embarrassing thrill she makes me feel in my own masculinity, a feeling of prfound complimentarity and completeness she gives me that I just don't get from a man, no matter how close we get.

Maybe it comes ultimately from our reproductive potential - the silent understanding the she and I can do the ultimate miracle together. I wouldn't underestimate the effect of the biological imperative as a motivator of human love and sexual attraction, whether we acknowledge it or not. (Some of us are used to getting comments on our stories from some guy who always wants to see the woman get impreganted at the end. I don't pay him any attention, but sometimes I understand his fetish all too well.)

*L* I don't know. That's a very good question. I guess at the end of the day, I want to be with someone whose going to marvel at my other-ness too, and be as impressed and affected by my masculinity as I am with her femininity.

You know, Plato lived in a society in which phsyical sex between men and boys was accepted, and yet he still gave this mythic explanation of love which I thought was silly when I first had to read it in college, but which I empathize with more and more as I get older. Plato said that orginially all humans were composed of a male part and a female part joined in one body with 4 arms and 4 legs and 2 heads and all that, but the gods got pissed (as gods so often do) and tore them all in two, creating men and women. And ever since then we've been trying to get back together into that single-bodied arrangement, sucking mouths and fucking, rubbing against each other, squeezing and grabbing and longing for God knows what - to just be in each other. In poetic terms, that seems to just about describe what it feels like to me.

Okay. That's enough for me. A third of a bottle of Jameson's on this letter, 3113, and I'm off to bed.

Now what's your explanation?

 

[3113]

Now what's your explanation?

Heh. I think that we are born with whatever sexual attraction we are going to have. And that simply means, whatever naked genitalia is going to capture our attention and make us want to fuck. I assume, as well, a sliding scale. Some of us are at the far end of Heterosexuality, lusting after the opposite sex and only the opposite sex. Some at the other end of Homosexuality, lusting after their own sex and only their own sex. Some are at the middle and truly bi-sexual.

Most, however, are somewhere up or down the scale. That being, if the right guy or girl came around, they'd probably give it a go, or if they really loved someone enough, they might do it.

I do know where you're coming from, by the by. I once asked my husband the same question. After all, if a person is blindfolded and being given oral sex, there's really no way for them to tell if the person pleasuring them is male or female (so long as said person is clean shaven, of course). So I asked my husband, "If you couldn't tell the difference blindfolded, what difference does it make if it's a guy or a girl?"

And he said, "Well, none if I'm blindfolded. But if I can see, I'm gonna get turned on by a woman doing that. I won't get turned on if I look down and see it's a guy. Because...it's a GUY."

When it comes to those naughty bits, there really is something in our brains that knows what it wants and likes. Other stuff (as you mentioned in the fetish thread) can be picked up along the way. Like whether a guy prefers plump women to slender, or hairy bears rather than twinks. I think even a tolerance for what a person is not into can be learned--depending on culture, (like heterosexual men in ancient Greece who may have had sex with youths because it was cuturally accepted and expected--or gay men who can have sex with women, but don't really enjoy it). But we really do seem to know what it is we are (gay, straight, really a boy, really a girl) at a pretty young age. So I think whatever makes us lust after a certain sex, it's probably there from birth and has little to do with anything outside of the womb.