Gender identity issues...what do you think?

[Patryn]

As some of you may already know, I am a sexuality major. I came across a case study today that has me baffled as to what to think.

The woman is 23, and all her life she has felt "masculine", identified with men, and as a young child playing "imagination" games, would always choose a male character, and sees herself as psychologically male. Here's the kicker...she's heterosexual, and claims the very idea of being with a woman sexually repulses her.

And no, this is NOT me.

I just found this fascinating in the way that I didn't think it was possible. Just basically looking for opinions here, and if anyone here is transgendered and brave enough to say so, or knows someone who is, how about talking a little about that?

This really has me curious....I mean, what is she? A gay man trapped in a female body?

 

[Laurel]

You know, I've seen those specials and read about that in Psych 101, but to this moment I don't understand it AT ALL. How can you feel like "a woman trapped in a man's body", or vice versa? What does that feel like? Would someone please explain that to me? I'd really like to know, because maybe I'm a man trapped in a woman's body but am too lame to realize it.

I try to be open-minded (and I KNOW I'm going to get flamed for this one) but I think some behaviors are rooted in mental illness. There's a difference between Sandy likes chocolate but Cindy likes strawberry, and Sandy is a girl but Cindy thinks she's a homosexual man trapped in a woman's body. That's beyond preference or orientation - that's WEIRD. I'm all for people having fetishes and sexual kinks, but is it really all right for a man to have his leg removed to appease some sexual need? Are there some needs that are actually self-destructive?

I feel very sorry for people with gender identity issues, and if a woman wants to go through the trouble of surgery to try to make herself feel better then more power to her. However, I don't think that going from a confused woman to a confused, mutilated homosexual man is necessarily going to solve the problem. Her issues are in her head - THAT'S what she needs to fix, not her body. IMHO. So flame away.

 

[Skibum]

I agree with Laurel. I don't have a clue how people can think that they should be something other than what they are. I have a good friend who has befriended a (woman?) who used to be a (man?), but has had a sex change operation. A true post-op transexual. This (woman?) is about 6' 4" and weighes about 250, has a deep male voice, and is the father of a couple of children. (He/she) had the sex change after having been married, fathering children, and getting divorced.

I wonder how the kids address (him/her). Is it Dad, Mom, or by name? I really think some money spent for a good pshrink could have saved on a lot of unneccessary surgery.

 

[Guest]

Patryn,

I don't really know if i should be saying all of this but I was a tom boy at school and now that I am all grown up I still like doing those tom boy things, climbing trees, D&D (roleplaying) and I'd love to be in the air force, but I really do adore men I love my partner to bits and don't know what I would do without him but I am also petrified of women and I don't know why.

I thought at first maybe it was something to do with me and the women I had met but time went on and it seemed that all women were like this apart from one that I can readily put a name to who treated me with respect and talked to me as if I was an adult rather than an encumberance.

believe me I have thought about this long and hard and I have come to the conclusion that either I had a bad experience during my childhood, or I am nervous of women in the same way that men are nervous of women in that I need to impress them and get scared when I can't.

Anyway I don't know if I am transgendered or not, all I know is that I feel the uncomfortable need to 'prove myself' to women but I completely love men.

If anyone can find another reason for why I feel this way I would be eternally grateful as I have never come clean about this before.

Thanks,
Naomi.

 

[MADDOG]

I would like permission to talk out of my ass for a second.

Could it possibly be (And I'm probably just saying this because I'm a TOTAL Guy in every way), that guys just have "more fun" and some girls enjoy that? I'm a pilot and I've done Rock Climbing, Abseiling, and about a hundred other adrenaline packed activities, and for the life of me I do not think I'd want to go on living if I was a woman and only had knitting and stuff to do. (I appologise whole heartedly for the crappy stereotypes!).

My point is, for whatever reason, maybe "Tom Boys" and women like the one in that case study just enjoy doing man things because they appeal to them more than stereotypical womens things?

Hope that didn't lose me any friends!

MADDOG

 

[Guest]

MADDOG, talk out of your ass as much as you want because that was a smart-ass comment! Lol I know plenty of women like the one in the study. They do not fit the old feminine role model but are heterosexual. Isn't that what the women's movement was all about? Now that they have the freedom to do "guy" things they still get labeled as closet lesbians. Personally I love women that have some backbone. Makes life more interesting. There is not enough information about this woman to make any conclusive answer but I think our culture has made her feel like she is "psychologically male" when in reality maybe she is a dominant, adventurous person willing to be herself despite all of the peer pressure to fit in.

 

[Deborah]

Hey MADDOG, if guys have more fun, then why are guys always playing girlies? Why are guys wearing pink skirts to work?

I opened the paper the other night only to read an article entitled "Man sues when his boss won't let him wear a skirt" written by Paul Campos, professor of law at the U. Of Colorado.

The story goes like this. The guy's boss, a woman, knew he was transgendered when she hired him. She let him wear lipstick to work. But she put her foot down when he wore a pink skirt to work. He filed a complaint with the Human Rights Office.

An excerpt, "What, one is tempted to ask, is not OK about telling a man that wearing a pink skirt to work is not OK? All the sensitivity training in the world is not going to alter the fact that, outside the confines of a drag queen bar, a grown man in a pink skirt is a preposterous sight. Yes, we shouldn't persecute people for basically harmless proclivities, no matter how bizarre they may seem, but making the enthusiastic acceptance of the bizarre a legal requirement for operating a business goes too far."

So you guys, quit bitching about 500 errors and every other little thing, and thank your lucky stars that Madam hasn't cracked down on you guys wearing your pink skirts and little white cotton panties while you are posting messages on the BB.

 

[Patryn]

Okay, here's the thing. I can understand about being transgendered, or wanting to be the opposite gender. From what I've learned, and also from doing research, and my own opinions, more often than not it has to do a hormonal or chemical imbalance, and the person, in fact, is chemically the oposite gender.

There is also such a thing as a triploid chromosome, but that's pretty rare. A female would be XXY, thus driving her to be more masculine. It can happen in animals too. In fact, just this last deer season, my room mate's friend shot a doe with an 8 point rack. Serioulsy...I saw the pictures.

There's so much that can play into it, and it's not the same as being a transvestite, though that can be part of it. A transvestite has no desire to actually BE the opposite sex, and they derive sexual pleasure from cross dressing. This hardly EVER is present in females, unless they are/desire to be transgendered.

It can, of course, be emotional, due to upbringing, early experiences, a traumatic event....it's different from being a "tomboy" or being "effeminate". I, myself, am a tomboy...I enjoy agressive inline, fishing, hunting, I don't even OWN a dress, and I have short hair because it flatters me and is easy to take care of...but that doesn't make me transgendered. I am comfortable being a female, and doing the things I enjoy. Same for a man who enjoys needlework, interior decorating, etc...those are typically "female" activities, but that doesn't necessarily make him gay, transgendered, or a transvestite.

The thing that threw me about this case study is the woman is heterosexual. One of the hallmarks of being transgendered in homosexuality in your current gender. Now, not ALL homosexuals are transgendered, but all pre-op transgendered are homosexual....except this case study.

I just found it interesting, that's all.

Thanks for the opinions so far, and no, no one is going to get flamed, at least not by me....we all have different views on things, and that's what makes sites like this great.

 

[Weird Harold]

Originally posted by Patryn:
The woman is 23, and all her life she has felt "masculine", identified with men, and as a young child playing "imagination" games, would always choose a male character, and sees herself as psychologically male. Here's the kicker...she's heterosexual, and claims the very idea of being with a woman sexually repulses her.

This really has me curious....I mean, what is she? A gay man trapped in a female body?

Could this be an extreme case of "Daddy wanted a boy"?

What I mean is, could she have been conditioned to think of herself as a boy right from the start?

If she doesn't fit into any of the typical scenarios for transgendered people, it's possible that she's not really tramsgendered, but 'brainwashed' from a very early age? Your posts don't really give enough information to make an informed guess. The brainwashing scenario is the only thing I could think of that might explain it. either that or she IS a gau man in a woman's body. <G>


[This message has been edited by Weird Harold (edited 05-25-2000).]

 

[Bigdog]

Unless parts of the case study have been omitted, this is much ado about nothing. The woman chose male characters while playing "imagination games" as a child. Why is this considered abnormal? She was imagining herself as something she couldn't be, if she chose to be a dog or a dragon nobody would think twice of it. As for seeing herself psychologically male, could it be because her choices in activities and interests are considered by society to be "male traits" and she has grown to believe this is so? Most "adreneline-rush" activities are male dominated so it is real easy to fall into the trap of labelling women who show interest in such things "different" or "weird". We have a knack for creating a label for everything. Finally, the woman says that she is not attracted sexually to women. What is the problem with that? If that isn't the classic definition of "normal" then what the hell is?

The problem with psych studies is that they condition you to look for things that may not be there. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses before zebras.


BTW, you know how guys do laundry so the panties are pink now too.