Gender Bending

[Homburg]

Pffff. Man up.

You want me to man up about feiminisation?

I'm having a moment of forced cognitive dissonance. Uncool, definite soft limit territory...

 

[Homburg]

And I would make a crap ass boy.

It does not stop me from thinking what I might do if I woke up borrowing, I dunno, Adrien Brody's body for a day.

Or Liz Hurley's for that matter, equally as unlikely.

I'm not one to strongly fantasise about no tbeing me. Probably odd considering I've played role-playing games for better than 25 years now. Given that you immerse yourself in character, you'd think that I would. Nah. Never wanted to be anyone but me, regardless of how much fun I had in RPG's.

Well, okay, I would not mind having a body like John Grimek at his peak. That would rock.

 

[DeservingBitch]

You want me to man up about feiminisation?

I'm having a moment of forced cognitive dissonance. Uncool, definite soft limit territory...

We call those mindfuck.

 

[Netzach]

Dude, I love my life, I'm talking purely masturbatory purposes. I only feel bed about the laundry list of STD's Adrien would get stuck with for a moment, but other than that...

 

[Essene]

What a great discussion!

 

[DeservingBitch]

Dude, I love my life, I'm talking purely masturbatory purposes. I only feel bed about the laundry list of STD's Adrien would get stuck with for a moment, but other than that...

If we're talking purely masturbatory purposes, I'd rather be in the body of transgirl: so i could still play femme, but with a genetic dick.

 

[Homburg]

We call those mindfuck.

There's a difference, dammit. Mindfucks are...

*glares*

--

Dude, I love my life, I'm talking purely masturbatory purposes. I only feel bed about the laundry list of STD's Adrien would get stuck with for a moment, but other than that...

That's why I chose who I did. Pure healthy.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around imaginging myself as a female. It's not really working in a masturbatory way. It mostly involves trying to figure out how to survive women's clothing. My scenarios are a bit too realistic, I think...

 

[Essene]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

UNFOUNDDIAMOND

Geez, I wasted 1000s of dollars and years of my time in grad school when all I needed was a few posts with you to make psychology crystal clear. Where were you when I spent all those weekends at the med school library? Life is unfair.

If you dont mind, I'll sit by your feet for some more enlightenment on...how did you spell it? pshycological? stuff. Uh, continue perfesser.

 

[Shankara20]

It mostly involves trying to figure out how to survive women's clothing...

you know where to find me if you have any questions


ps - Shank in fem clothing = very ugly woman,
I have never wanted to "pass", do not do makeup and hair. I just like to wear fem clothing and I even get turned on once in awhile while pantie (or is it "panty") shopping .

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

I even get turned on once in awhile while pantie (or is it "panty") shopping .

: falls off chair with shock :













not

 

[unfoundiamond]

I am not saying....

I am not saying to be in touch with your feminine side you have to cross dress, I actually said that before too...

I am saying that being well rounded means you don't just do the things normal to your gender, Okay Ill give you an example...

Tradtitionally we as wome are cargivers, we bore and rear the children for example, we are nuturers... Now, my bf is as ALPHA MALE as a man can get, He also claimed he had no feminine side when I was talking to him about what this board is about...

Which reminded me of when I had abdominal surgery, I had serious surgery and didn't ever want to get up afterwards, but guess who was by my side, every moment, He helped me get motivated and then physically out of bed and go to the bathroom, He helped me when I couldn't even bend down He held me while I basically stood with my ass over the toilet, peed, and he cleaned me completely afterwards, (and that was just the first time I peed, He did it for the next 72 hrs even at night he would wake up and help me out of bed take me to the toilet and even when I wasn't peeing... He took complete care of me, changing my dressings, getting me pads... He was my Florence Nightingale, he did things for me I think even a mother could have cringed at... I reminded him, "that was your caring and nurturing side"

He didn't just shrug me off or call a nurse(and he could have) He just cared for me, better than my own mother could have.

Even He believes our relationship and he as a whole are richer for his experiernce, He can break gender roles and still be a man...

My bf also cleans our house... I am working and going to school, "gender roles" have no weight in my household... He works and cleans the house, does a lot of the laundry, and I work, go to school and cook (because I am picky and have a special diet)... We all have our jobs...

I am just saying, like AFLYINYOURWEB, my boyfriend is a man who can be a manly man, but also do things usually reserved for women, like being a shoulder to cry on, or nursing someone back to health... which are expiriences that may be difficult, but the expirience leaves you richer and helps to make a person well rounded and expirienced.

Which Hom, I happen to be sure you are a man who is capable of behavoirs like his...

Gender Bending is not only about crossdressing people... and I am not saying people will be magically smarter or diffrent from changing clothes... Not even all gender benders cross dress, My mother in law wears womens clothes... and still doesn't come off feminine... its not about clothes...

 

[unfoundiamond]

Spelling

Hey jbj,

FYI

I am no spelling champion... but spelling a word wrong and using the completely wrong phrase are (at least) equally incorrect, and I didn't have to go to college and grad school to figure that out...

And BTW, its cool to disagree with me, help me understand your point... Correct me if I am wrong. I like to debate with someone who can be mature. I am fine with constructive criticism. I hate how just because you disagree with someone they take it so personally...

*And back now back to gender bending*

 

[unfoundiamond]

Hom...

Homburg...
Well I think you are taking this perticularly hard, and I would think being a RPG veteran I wouldn't have to explain this to you...but I also don't want you thinking I am saying something about alpha male types...

Okay say for example you are like some other men I know and your fem side is that 1% kind of thing, Haven't you ever played a female character? I would assume you have had to, or have at least sometime in 25 years, that's your way of gender bending... If you really get into the roleplaying and I figure you do... you try to think and play like the stats of the character, you are getting in touch with your fem side there... you are roleplaying, or acting like something you may not be to create a action or react to others and create imaginary scenarios... like creating a character and acting it out shouldn't be scarey...
I think this may be a character you aren't interested in playing, but... I don't think it should be so hard to understand...

I think you may hate me for saying this but I will take a chance...
Have you ever seen mulan? Remember when the masculine soldier men dressed up as women, in kimonos and white face and one of the guys even had a goatee among his make-up... well that's how I would imagine you if you where in drag... and I thought those guys where cute... the one with the low voice and the goatee is the best.
I have to follow that by saying I really respect ya and like you Hom so please don't kill me for saying that... much love man, now go watch it and desensitize your negative reaction... crossdressing isn't always a negative thing... and it isn't always serious and negative... it can be for fun, or for imaginary purposes like gaming...

Not always limit type reaction necesarry... I don't want to put you on the defense or make you think I am saying "Men have to CD or they aren't good men"

But even my Dad writes female characters and plays them in games, staying in character, but totally hetero and secure in himself, and that's his way of gender bending...
and I assume you are probably more like the alpha male types I know, or maybe you're like my Bf who can just do things which defy gender roles or used to wear long hair... and some dont crossdress, but I would venture to say most people have some expirience like gender bending... that's all...

 

[Netzach]

If we're talking purely masturbatory purposes, I'd rather be in the body of transgirl: so i could still play femme, but with a genetic dick.

This works well for me, too. When I strap it on I envision myself more or less thus not "as a guy"

 

[Netzach]

UNFOUNDDIAMOND

Geez, I wasted 1000s of dollars and years of my time in grad school

Yes. Yes you so clearly did, if you did.

 

[Homburg]

you know where to find me if you have any questions


ps - Shank in fem clothing = very ugly woman,
I have never wanted to "pass", do not do makeup and hair. I just like to wear fem clothing and I even get turned on once in awhile while pantie (or is it "panty") shopping .

See, that's the difference. You pull the look off beautifully. It's your thing. It would be low comedy for me at best.

I worry too much about my non-existant dignity, I think.

 

[Homburg]

Homburg...
Well I think you are taking this perticularly hard, and I would think being a RPG veteran I wouldn't have to explain this to you...but I also don't want you thinking I am saying something about alpha male types...

Okay say for example you are like some other men I know and your fem side is that 1% kind of thing, Haven't you ever played a female character? I would assume you have had to, or have at least sometime in 25 years, that's your way of gender bending... If you really get into the roleplaying and I figure you do... you try to think and play like the stats of the character, you are getting in touch with your fem side there... you are roleplaying, or acting like something you may not be to create a action or react to others and create imaginary scenarios... like creating a character and acting it out shouldn't be scarey...
I think this may be a character you aren't interested in playing, but... I don't think it should be so hard to understand...

Sort of. I've never played a female character as a player, but have run many as a GM. I tried to keep the roles limited though. Simply put, at least in the RPG world, most cross-players do such an awful campy job of playing female that I find it insulting. The roles I've played were always downplayed and based off of women I knew in real life. They weren't sexy vamps or mindless cheerleaders or whatnot. They were capable women, filling whatever role I'd written for the story.

Still, when I ran LARP, I preferred to have the female roles played by one of my female narrators. While I don't particularly mind voice characterisations and what-not, in LARP you actually portray body language, walk, etc, and I really had a tough time handling that. I can NOT walk like a woman. Period, end of story. My hips do NOT work that way.

Now gay and bi males were no issue. Some of my all-time favourite PC's and NPC's were gay/bi. A bisexual redcap in a changeling game is just a beautiful thing, and having seen my pic, you could imagine the sort of reaction people guys got when I started in on them with said gay/bi character.

NOTE: While I dislike campy/vampy female characters played by men, I had less problem with campy gay/bi characters played by men. I have too many gay friends that camp it up to get a reaction from the breeders, and I find it hilarious when they do, so I would occassionally play camp NPC's to get that same reaction.

I think you may hate me for saying this but I will take a chance...
Have you ever seen mulan? Remember when the masculine soldier men dressed up as women, in kimonos and white face and one of the guys even had a goatee among his make-up... well that's how I would imagine you if you where in drag... and I thought those guys where cute... the one with the low voice and the goatee is the best.

Not seen it, but oddly enough, I would not mind that sort of portrayal. There's a long history of that sort of CD for theatrical reasons. And, to be honest, I have this weird Japanese Switch built into me. There are all sorts of things that I would not normally do, say, or like, but the Japanese version of said activity just pings my aesthetic so strongly that I find it utterly culturally acceptable.

It comes from how I was raised. My grandma was Japanese, and I grew up with Japanese food, Japanese artwork in the house, Japanese cultural elements, books, plays, watching Japanese movies ("Ran" is one of my all-time favourite films). So the idea of a peach-bun wig, kimono, and white make-up just doesn't really cause me to bat an eye for cross-cultural reasons. That is a form of drag I could do without embarrassment, regardless of how cuss-ugly I'd be dressed like that.

And, WOW, that is a sentence I NEVER expected to type...

as an aside, one of the coolest guys I know has the same sort of Japanese Switch in his psyche. He came to a halloween party once as a Geisha, and looked great. I thought it was the coolest costume he'd ever done =)

I have to follow that by saying I really respect ya and like you Hom so please don't kill me for saying that... much love man,

No worries. I am pretty darned comfortable in my own skin.

But even my Dad writes female characters and plays them in games, staying in character, but totally hetero and secure in himself, and that's his way of gender bending... and I assume you are probably more like him, or my Bf who can just do things which defy gender roles and used to wear long hair... and neither of them crossdress, but I would venture to say most people have some expirience like gender bending... that's all...

Long hair doesn't work for me. Before my hair decided to go thin, it was stupidly thick. It didn't fall down when it got long. It just kept expanding, growing taller and wider. I would've wound up looking like I had a 'fro.

 

[Homburg]

Yes. Yes you so clearly did, if you did.

*laughs*

I was thinking the exact same thing

 

[unfoundiamond]

kabuki....

And Kabuki is a great example of masculine men gender bending... thanks Hom...

 

[Homburg]

And Kabuki is a great example of masculine men gender bending... thanks Hom...

Precisely. Kabuki is incredible.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

UNFOUNDDIAMOND

Ego dystonic refers to any experience or conduct that conflicts with our self concept. It might be sexual. It might be related to obsessions and compulsions. It might be related to violence. It might be nearly anything. Plenty of people have a tough time with failure or job loss or growing old.

In EAST OF EDEN Aaron discovers that his mother operates a brothel, and he flips out.

So being female is ego dystonic for me. It's an alien sort of idea.

 

[unfoundiamond]

okay...

JBJ,
Well since you wanted to correct me, I'd like to correct you. The conversation was about gender bending, not being transexual so your saying " So BEING female is ego dystonic for me" is irrelevant, being female isn't what we are talking about, you must have ment to say "So displaying feminine characteristics would be ego dystonic for me" Mr. IamsosmartbecauseIwenttoGradSchool...
Did they teach you how to say what you mean in Grad School?

And I understood what the phrase means, I didn't like the connotation you gave being female, like the characteristics would clash with your "self concept" because they are not as good as the characterisics you posess... which clearly is sexist, and untrue...

I can see you're still throwing words around insted of specifying on WHAT these female characteristics are and WHY these female characterisics are so uncompatible with your "self concept"

I want to know what's so bad about man displaying female characteristics if he chooses... It doesn't make them inferior or weak, it may not be for everyone... and that's fine, but just because you don't do it doesn't make others that do inferior... and that's how you made it sound.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

UNFOUNDDIAMOND

Grad school was a lot of work and money. I wouldnt do it again, but most people cant do it.

Being female is relevant to me, by golly. Female characteristics do clash with who I am. God made the right choice when he made me male. Most men have the same attitude, if they say different theyre lying. I cannot imagine any sane man wishing to be female. You know I'm right.

I have nothing against anyone who wants to be...say...a beduoin or eskimo or Alabanian goat herder, but I dont wanna be one. On the otherhand if I'm lost in the swamps Seminoles are useful. I just dont want to be one.

 

[rida]

...
Not seen it, but oddly enough, I would not mind that sort of portrayal. There's a long history of that sort of CD for theatrical reasons. And, to be honest, I have this weird Japanese Switch built into me. There are all sorts of things that I would not normally do, say, or like, but the Japanese version of said activity just pings my aesthetic so strongly that I find it utterly culturally acceptable.

It comes from how I was raised. My grandma was Japanese, and I grew up with Japanese food, Japanese artwork in the house, Japanese cultural elements, books, plays, watching Japanese movies ("Ran" is one of my all-time favourite films). So the idea of a peach-bun wig, kimono, and white make-up just doesn't really cause me to bat an eye for cross-cultural reasons. That is a form of drag I could do without embarrassment, regardless of how cuss-ugly I'd be dressed like that.

And, WOW, that is a sentence I NEVER expected to type...

as an aside, one of the coolest guys I know has the same sort of Japanese Switch in his psyche. He came to a halloween party once as a Geisha, and looked great. I thought it was the coolest costume he'd ever done =)

.....

Didn't want to bring it up but since you did ... You do look good in your Kimono ... and I know I ma being a snob, but not many GAIJIN (not-Japanese) can really pull it off and not look like they are just wearing a robe.

Back to the cross-dressing, many men in the Westners world would consider wearing a Kimono sort of cross-dressing.

To UNFOUNDIAMOND ... I agree that cross dressing and gender bending are not necessary the same thing nor related. You can bend your gender without cross dressing, and you can cross-dress and not bend your gender at all.


Sudden thought: if a well rounded person is a person that is in touch with both their feminine and masculine side, can we draw a parallel and say that SWITCHES are potentially better rounded persons than pure Doms or subs? Or is it a bit like apples and oranges as a SWITCH is like a BI, and you can be in touch with both your masculine and feminine side even if you are 99.9% straight?