Future Balkanized America

[SevMax2]

Which countries will emerge from the collapse of the American Empire, just as they did from Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, etc? I think that dissolution and disunion is now a matter of when, not of if. All great empires fall someday, and as great a run as we've had, we've sown the seeds of our own self-destruction with rising inequality, war, crippling poverty, paralyzing gridlocks, etc.

As Yeats famously wrote, "the center cannot hold."

I'm frankly amazed that the center, as he put it, has held as long as it did.

As Benjamin Franklin famously told that Philly matron, "A Republic, madam, if you can keep it."

My own prediction is a Republic of Texas, of California, New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, etc. States forced to assume independence and print their own currency to keep float, and not all of them will survive the culling process. It could go all Mad Max in time, if we're not careful.

 

[CornusKousa]

Which countries will emerge from the collapse of the American Empire, just as they did from Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, the Russian Empire, the Soviet Union, etc? I think that dissolution and disunion is now a matter of when, not of if. All great empires fall someday, and as great a run as we've had, we've sown the seeds of our own self-destruction with rising inequality, war, crippling poverty, paralyzing gridlocks, etc.

As Yeats famously wrote, "the center cannot hold."

I'm frankly amazed that the center, as he put it, has held as long as it did.

As Benjamin Franklin famously told that Philly matron, "A Republic, madam, if you can keep it."

Clearly we can't, we lost the republic as soon as we allowed those with no skin in the game to have a vote.

My own prediction is a Republic of Texas, of California, New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, etc. States forced to assume independence and print their own currency to keep float, and not all of them will survive the culling process.

Texas for sure, they'll do it with a fuckin' smile too. And they are big/diverse/populous enough I think they would do alright.

I don't think California or NY would wind up independent as they currently stand.

I think "smaller" (in whatever way) states nearby who don't have enough to go at it on their own would be grouping up along regional/cultural boundaries.

For example, most New England states are not big enough economically, geographically and thus resource wise, nor do they have enough people to be their own nation. And I don't think many of them would want to be considering how left/collectivist they lean. I think they would all get together and become "New England" or whatever the fuck they want to call it and other regional/cultural areas would do the same.

It could go all Mad Max in time, if we're not careful.

It could happen in a matter of days if things get really out of hand.

If people don't start finding a little bit of "live and let live" in their hearts we might just find out.

 

[Just4AFriend]

Bah!
I would rather have the West Coast join Canada
The East can do the same.. heck parts of the North too

You all can have your elections decided by assholecans

You know of fraud? Get it the fuck in front of the people
Stop fucking around

We look like a two bit banana republic.. of Russia!

 

[Lazaran]

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How perfect is it that SevMarx2 and Creeping Charlie both masturbate to the idea of the United States fracturing along ideological lines and forming exclusionary enclaves.

They're both unamerican cowards.

SAD!!!

 

[SevMax2]

Evidently, some people can’t grasp the distinction between prognostication and anticipation. Predicting future calamities based upon historical trends and having treasonous inclinations are not synonymous, but I don’t expect an imperialist, McCarthyist neoliberal corporate shill for warmongers and war criminals to comprehend such nuances. I happen to be a history buff with a real understanding of the cycles of the rise and fall of empires, such as Ancient Rome, but Lazy boy would rather play Roy Cohn himself.

 

[phrodeau]

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How perfect is it that SevMarx2 and Creeping Charlie both masturbate to the idea of the United States fracturing along ideological lines and forming exclusionary enclaves.

They're both unamerican cowards.

SAD!!!

Makes them foreigners, by the sound of it.

 

[SevMax2]

Makes them foreigners, by the sound of it.

More of a critical history buff and gadfly. Don’t mistake analysis for desire.

 

[KeithD]

The United States isn't going to break up. No one's going to make that sort of effort.

 

[SevMax2]

The United States isn't going to break up. No one's going to make that sort of effort.

So, now we place our hopes in the laziness of our countrymen. I can only hope to be wrong and a false prophet in this. I have to hope that history doesn’t repeat itself.

“A house divided against itself cannot stand.” - Abraham Lincoln

 

[phrodeau]

More of a critical history buff and gadfly. Don’t mistake analysis for desire.

Is “imperialist, McCarthyist neoliberal corporate shill for warmongers and war criminals” you being a history buff or a gadfly?

 

[JJA122]

It could go all Mad Max in time, if we're not careful.

Mad Max was set in 2021.

 

[SevMax2]

Is “imperialist, McCarthyist neoliberal corporate shill for warmongers and war criminals” you being a history buff or a gadfly?

It’s me calling out his fascist leanings in response to his own ad hominem polemic. If he stops advocating the war machine and illegal government surveillance, not to mention xenophobic rhetoric couched in Cold War nostalgia, he might get less contempt from the noninterventionist left like me.

 

[SevMax2]

Mad Max was set in 2021.

Fascinating footnote. Thanks.

 

[CornusKousa]

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How perfect is it that SevMarx2 and Creeping Charlie both masturbate to the idea of the United States fracturing along ideological lines and forming exclusionary enclaves.

They're both unamerican cowards.

SAD!!!

No, we're really talking about Americans taking back their right to self determination from Washington DC and thus the control freaks of the various other regional/political/cultural factions.

A way for us to live and let live instead of having a knock down drag out fight caused by control freaks on the left trying to force the USA into being a unitary state run by "progressive" totalitarians.

That shit just ain't happening at the national level and you guys clearly can't stand American values and rule of law, so we've got a real problem.

I think instead of fighting we should reconsider our commitment to federalism so we can all live and let live.

Unlike SevMax, I don't see any reason why we can't keep sharing the same military/currency/interstate highways as we have been but manage our economies/culture as we see fit.

There isn't anything un-American about that, quite the opposite.

It’s me calling out his fascist leanings in response to his own ad hominem polemic. If he stops advocating the war machine and illegal government surveillance, not to mention xenophobic rhetoric couched in Cold War nostalgia, he might get less contempt from the noninterventionist left like me.

What's wrong with government surveillance??

How else are you supposed to know if people are truly complying with the will of the collective??

If you don't keep an eye on the people how do you plan on stamping out all that evil private commerce and property to make equal life outcomes for all??

 

[Dribble]

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How perfect is it that SevMarx2 and Creeping Charlie both masturbate to the idea of the United States fracturing along ideological lines and forming exclusionary enclaves.

They're both unamerican cowards.

SAD!!!

I disagree. I believe the only way at least part of this country will survive is if we break up. I am not unAmerican. It is NOT what I want. Look at how far we have fallen in the last 4 years. We can't even get them to wear a mask. What other option is there?

 

[Dribble]

But the good news....we have 30 ft of a new Border wall constructed at a cost of 30 million.

 

[SevMax2]

I disagree. I believe the only way at least part of this country will survive is if we break up. I am not unAmerican. It is NOT what I want. Look at how far we have fallen in the last 4 years. We can't even get them to wear a mask. What other option is there?

So, you regard this as constitutional triage?

 

[SevMax2]

No, we're really talking about Americans taking back their right to self determination from Washington DC and thus the control freaks of the various other regional/political/cultural factions.

A way for us to live and let live instead of having a knock down drag out fight caused by control freaks on the left trying to force the USA into being a unitary state run by "progressive" totalitarians.

That shit just ain't happening at the national level and you guys clearly can't stand American values and rule of law, so we've got a real problem.

I think instead of fighting we should reconsider our commitment to federalism so we can all live and let live.

Unlike SevMax, I don't see any reason why we can't keep sharing the same military/currency/interstate highways as we have been but manage our economies/culture as we see fit.

There isn't anything un-American about that, quite the opposite.



What's wrong with government surveillance??

How else are you supposed to know if people are truly complying with the will of the collective??

If you don't keep an eye on the people how do you plan on stamping out all that evil private commerce and property to make equal life outcomes for all??

You still don’t get it, do you? I want a mixed market economy, not a command or pure market one.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

that would be nice, wouldn't it?

The U.S. fights a Civil War over slavery and the UNION wins, but it breaks up over masks.

I disagree. I believe the only way at least part of this country will survive is if we break up. I am not unAmerican. It is NOT what I want. Look at how far we have fallen in the last 4 years. We can't even get them to wear a mask. What other option is there?

 

[LLCox]

When I moved to this section of the Appalachian Mountains I checked out the local history. I was amused to find that around here the locals shot at both sides during the Civil War. Knowing them now I could see the same thing happening again.

 

[CornusKousa]

I disagree. I believe the only way at least part of this country will survive is if we break up. I am not unAmerican. It is NOT what I want. Look at how far we have fallen in the last 4 years. We can't even get them to wear a mask. What other option is there?

Exactly.

I think allowing places (states or territories) to offer those various kinds of lifestyle/options, as determined by the people who live there is as American as it gets.

However, that unity requires certain boundaries/limits be in place and post WWII we as a union have violated just about all of them.

The largest of which is that the federal government itself must be highly restricted in it's scope of authority ESPECIALLY when it comes to social and economic issues.

I think if we are to preserve the union it will be through re-affirming those boundaries on the federal government. So that when it comes down to the nitty gritty stuff progressives can live in progressive states like progressives want to live. Uber-Christian conservatives can do their thing in the bible belt, libertarians in Mawntana can do their thing etc.

If we can get back to a place where we can all live and let live, everyone but the true haters wins.

If we can't? Most if not everyone, I fear, is gonna lose.

 

[CornusKousa]

You still don’t get it, do you? I want a mixed market economy, not a command or pure market one.

Your AV says otherwise.

Define "mixed market" economy.

 

[CornusKousa]

that would be nice, wouldn't it?

The U.S. fights a Civil War over slavery and the UNION wins, but it breaks up over masks.

The alternative is to fight.

Not really a hill worth dying on IMO.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The fact that viruses don't respect arbitrary state boundaries is an excellent reminder of the need for federalism.

 

[Soshameless11]

This is not at all implausible, and as a student of history with a lifetime of experience in politics and public relations, I'd say it's very possible within my grandchildren's lifetime. We'll end up back in some sort of loose confederation as before the Constitution for mutual defense.

And it's not going to be the backward ass would-be theocracies like I happen to live in that will push it - it will be states like California and New York tired of being at the whims of while subsidizing the south and interior west.

You'll get a West Coast nation-state anchored by California, plus Arizona. The old Confederacy minus Virginia and NC which will form their own thing with Maryland and Delaware. Pennsylvania will split in two, with the West hooking up with WI, MI, OH and MN. Philly goes with NJ, NY and CT. Then you have New England, the Texas Republic annexing Oklahoma, and all the square states will then fight it out among themselves a while and become refugee land.