full time freelance writers

[sweetnpetite]

Is there anyone here who makes there living as a freelance writer? I have a few questions I'd love to ask, such as:

how long did it take you before you could fully support yourself?

what are your 'meat and potatoes markets'

do you do any writing just for the money that you really don't enjoy?

and probably about a million more. but I don't want to type them all up unless there's going to be someone to answer them.

 

[sweetnpetite]

also would appreciate any links to threads where this is already being discussed

 

[sweetnpetite]

some links to lit threads

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209623

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

I am a free lance and contracted writer full-time-"ish". I can bring in anywhere from $30 a month to $4000.....depending on the month. So I also (in the tradition of all great writers) wait tables part time.

I try to manage my money so that I have to "work" as little as possible outside of the house, but it just doesn't work out that way.

Plus, while there are also some great tax benefits to being "self employed," I have somehow always managed to get screwed even though I pay my taxes quarterly (which come out to about 28% of my earned income).

Not to mention the 12% that goes to my agent. (It was a lovely check... the $30 one that turned into $12 when all was said and done)

How long did it take? Well... I was able to fully support myself with my writing (no table waiting required) for about a year and 3 months up until August when I made a major cross-country move. Now Mr. WOK and I are gearing up to buy a house, so out financial dynamic has changed. But all-in-all, it took me about 4 years of actually dedicating myself to being a freelance writer.(that also included time in college spent getting 2 Bachelor's degrees, two masters degrees and one PhD....Good God you should see my student loan bills). I had written for fun and minor profit since I was 11 years old (now 27).

Do I ever write things I don't enjoy? Yes...on a daily basis. I write magazine articles (because that is where a lot of the $$ in freelance writing is for my type of writing). And I HATE writing magazine articles. You know that lame, glossy crap you see in Redbook? Yeah... well, I might have written it. But...it pays the bills and gives me a 1/2 decent writing resume.

Any advice??

Submit, submit, submit.

Write, write, write.

Research, research, research.

Although, hopefully not in that order.

It took me about a year of freelance writing making almost no money to get an agent (most require a 1/2 decent resume before they will talk to ya) and then things really began to pick up from there. Although I still could not make a living until I got a few contract editorial positions with a couple of magazines and journals. Some of them I write satire for (which is my "specialty," if you will....and I will) and a few I write other things.

In the mean time I have also managed to write 4 novels in my life and I am working on a 5th, but I have never attempted to publish any of them. I'm not really sure why. My agent said that at least one of them could get published. I think it is mostly that I write novels for my own personal pleasure and I don't want them "out there" to be picked apart. My articles? Pick em apart day and night. Chances are I didn't even want to write it to begin with.

Moral of the story? Being a freelance writer is tough. Very tough. And while it gets easier when you have an agent and you get some "hook ups"....it is still not easy work. It is extremely feast or famine and it makes me crazy to juggle a part time job, writing at least 4 hours a day, researching at least 3-6 hours a day and then I have my husband and family (and yes...school....again....I just can't stop going to school. I'm an addict). It is not for the fait of heart, shy, easily intimidated or undisciplined. Not to mention that once you become a public entity you have to worry about your "writing image" because one really bad turn can "blackball" you for a long time (hence why I keep my personal details very private on here).

If you think you can stomach it... I say go for it.

But as a final word of caution....it is no longer writing for fun. It is writing for profit. It is a job. And like all jobs... it can really suck.

~WOK

 

[sweetnpetite]

thank you wornoutkeyboard, that was a great reply. Wow, you really love school (so do I)

I am a terrible procrastinator, but it is something that I am working on. (I'm quite amazed that I've been able to post as much here as I have) I need to go back to school to get my bachelors degree. The thing is- I've been tested, and have the knowlege level of a college grad- so I could probably do testing and get the degree quick- but I want to take every class, and I can never narrow down my interest to just one thing to focus on. I would like to get a newspaper job or something like that- I just can't ever decide where to start or what to do first.

I'm stay at home right now with a one and a half year old- plus I have two older kids, so I don't want to put my life on hold any longer. Obviously, I don't need my writing to completely support me- but eventurally it would be nice. At this point, any little extra I could bring into the household would likely be well appreciated.

Like I said, I've been writing for lit for a while, and I'm starting to feel a desire to reap a little more reward for my work than just positive feedback. Its still pretty on a hobby level, but up a notch to 'money making hobbie'- or at least I hope.

Yeah, I hate those glossy, repetative articles- but I suppose I've read enough of them, I could turn out a few if that was what it took.

I don't know if you'd rather I pm or continue to post here, so I'll ask a few more questions here.

About how many market categories do you write for? do you write under different names?

do you write for markets besides consumer publications?

what about local news papers and that sort of thing?

do you use Writer's Market, Writer's digest, ect? Buy or borrow?

where did you make your first sale? do you still sell to that market?

what are some mistakes you made early on?

oh, gosh, I'm sorry to ask so many questions, your head is probably spinning I'll stop for now and take a breath

 

[Icingsugar]

I too write for food on the table, and I pretty much second WOK's post. My situation is somewhat different though, since I actually have a pretty safe set of contractors that I deliver articles and other copywrites to on a weekly or monthly basis, with only a brief setback in the summer months. I guess I'm kins of lucky in that department. The regular assignments are news telegram writing, montly features in tech magazines and information copywriting for counties and government intitutions. Sometimes really interresting, sometimes boring as fuck, but it beats what I did before.

So the income is more steady, or at least the 'guaranteed' minimum each months. A bad month I cash in approx $1200, a decent one two grand, and occationally peeks at three thou, when I land other good assignments. (That usually means 24/7 of hard work that month though.) I also don't have any agent taking a cut, I know my realm well enough anyway.

So it's a decent work providing a decent living. It has it's ups and downs, but that at least means that it has ups.

 

[Gary Chambers]

I made a living at it for over twenty years, but seldom a very good one. Best money was made in Europe, not N. America. Bread and butter markets were newspaper and radio. Magazines are okay too if you can find one you want to write for. I liked the old men's mags, but they're suffering now. These days I teach and anything else that comes along, although I'm working on novels too. If the novels pay fairly well I'll go back to freelancing. It's a tough racket in N. America and getting harder everywhere because the Internet is killing off the old markets, and new Net markets seldom pay very well, though there are exceptions. To make a steady living you need to be in an area like New York or London where there's lots of publishing. Competition among publishers is what keeps freelancing profitable, because you end up virtually auctioning your work to the highest bidder. That's why it's bad to have too much of the industry owned by too few people. Fiction is what we all want to write, but nonfiction is what sells. Using a camera helps too. Things always sell better with photos. Personally, I'd like to find a way to make the Web pay.

 

[raphy]

Personally, I'd like to find a way to make the Web pay.

Can't see that ever happening..

 

[shereads]

I've worked as a copywriter in advertising for hundreds of years, and it's becoming a freelance thing by default as agencies consolidate and downsize, or "scrape the barnacles off the hull" as one agency CFO called a recent round of layoffs.

I write for a lot of travel/resort clients and will pay a cash bonus to anybody who can come up with a word I haven't used, ad nauseum, to describe "azure" seas. Right now I'm procrastinating four ads for timeshare condos at a ski resort. There's some swampland in Florida that I have to sell after that.

But no, I would never write anything "just for the money."



S

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

thank you wornoutkeyboard, that was a great reply. Wow, you really love school (so do I)

I am a terrible procrastinator, but it is something that I am working on. (I'm quite amazed that I've been able to post as much here as I have) I need to go back to school to get my bachelors degree. The thing is- I've been tested, and have the knowlege level of a college grad- so I could probably do testing and get the degree quick- but I want to take every class, and I can never narrow down my interest to just one thing to focus on. I would like to get a newspaper job or something like that- I just can't ever decide where to start or what to do first.

I'm stay at home right now with a one and a half year old- plus I have two older kids, so I don't want to put my life on hold any longer. Obviously, I don't need my writing to completely support me- but eventurally it would be nice. At this point, any little extra I could bring into the household would likely be well appreciated.

Like I said, I've been writing for lit for a while, and I'm starting to feel a desire to reap a little more reward for my work than just positive feedback. Its still pretty on a hobby level, but up a notch to 'money making hobbie'- or at least I hope.

Yeah, I hate those glossy, repetative articles- but I suppose I've read enough of them, I could turn out a few if that was what it took.

I don't know if you'd rather I pm or continue to post here, so I'll ask a few more questions here.

About how many market categories do you write for? do you write under different names?

do you write for markets besides consumer publications?

what about local news papers and that sort of thing?

do you use Writer's Market, Writer's digest, ect? Buy or borrow?

where did you make your first sale? do you still sell to that market?

what are some mistakes you made early on?

oh, gosh, I'm sorry to ask so many questions, your head is probably spinning I'll stop for now and take a breath

Hehe.... so you think those glossy little annoying articles are something you could do easily? Well...here's a challenge for ya (maybe it will tell you whether freelance is something you could hack).... I want you to write me a 5 sourced article for a men's magazine about the relationship between VD and penile dysfunction. Skew it against the pharmaceutical companies. It is due by next Friday. It will be under "health and fitness" so you need to keep it under about 2K words.

I'm serious..... do that little challenge and it will give you a taste of what you may be up for.

That is the kind of request I get on a daily/weekly basis from editors and my agent.

Even worse...here is a request for a job that I turned down (because of time, not money):


From :
"XXXXXXXXXX" <XXXXXXXXXXXXXX@XXXXXX.com>

To :
XXXXXXXXXXXX@hotmail.com

Subject :
Thought you would be interested.

Date :
Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:44:11 -0500

Reply Reply All Forward Delete Put in Folder...InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Printer Friendly Version

Publisher: XXXXXXX
Name: XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX Monthly
Due: 12/15/03
Publication date: April 04
Subject: Military History
Needed: 1200wd humor editorial on the humorous relationship between the ammunition used during the CW and WWI. Sourcing required but kept OF.
Page/Section/Category: Editorial


Thought this one might be up your ally. Your article for XXXXX and XXXXXX Quarterly still has RO, so I can't pull it OF, but I thought this one would be a slam dunk.

Let me know by 12/07/03

-XXXX
__________________________________
XXXXXXXXXX
Periodical Publishing Representative
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


To answer your questions:

About how many market categories do you write for? do you write under different names?

I write for whomever will pay me. But primarily I write for about 5 different magazines (all diametrically different from each other in subject matter). But I have been known to write anything for anyone at any time. As far as "styles"... I write primarily humor, satire and editorials. I write under my first two initials and my maiden name. I have written under other names, but 99% of my work goes under my standard byline. I only use a pseudonym if I need to write the article for $$ but I think it may hurt my resume to do it.

do you write for markets besides consumer publications?

Yes, I have a regular gig for a few journals as well (although they pay crap). I have also done a college lecture circuit about the elements of writing satire and humor. That paid well, but it sucks to give the same lecture over and over.

what about local news papers and that sort of thing?

Nope, my style does not lend to that. I have done it (before I went "freelance") but it is not something I do on a regular basis. Besides, if I ever thought that Magazine publishing is sensationalistic.... newspapers are about 100% worse.


do you use Writer's Market, Writer's digest, ect? Buy or borrow?

Yes, I have and I do own one (although I used to get it from the library) although I rarely see a need for it now that I have an agent. However, I would highly recommend it for the new writer. Hell...recommend? Okay, it is a must have. How else do you plan on getting published without an agent?

where did you make your first sale? do you still sell to that market?

I made my first sale to a literary magazine that specialized in short stories when I was 13. As a "freelancer" I sold an article to a food/culinary magazine (sorry, won't say which one for privacy reasons). Yes, I still write for them occasionally. My first contract was for a PC magazine writing satire editorials/reviews on products. But I do not write for them any longer as I don't keep up with the technology anymore (although my husband loved us getting a new motherboard/video card/whatever every 2 weeks for free courtesy of the manufacturers.....at least until they kept crashing our "little computer").

what are some mistakes you made early on?

Yeeeshhhh....what mistakes haven't I made? Lets see.... I did a simultaneous submission when the publisher did not permit it and didn't realize that the two publications were owned by the same company...ooops. I used to skimp on research and had a few glaring errors get to print because of it (and I lost one contract over it...ouch). I used to be less focused and would regularly write pieces and not notice that I had let the deadline lapse and they would not take a late submission and quite a few times my agent had to work to market a piece that I had originally written for someone else (they don't like that). I did not limit my right optioning well enough before I had an agent and I still have quite a few articles out there that I don't have the rights back to (which sux because when you get the rights returned you can re-sell the same article to different publications). I also used to be very stubborn and proud of my work when I first went into freelance which is a big no-no. As a zine article writer you are a writing slut and it is best to know your place. You will submit 3000 beautiful words and what will make it to print is a 1400wd hack job. And you will learn to say "please master may I have some more". Period.

OK...enough of my blathering.

~WOK

 

[Icingsugar]

the humorous relationship between the ammunition used during the CW and WWI

Oh yes, that always makes me ROFL thinking about.
wtf?

/Ice

 

[shereads]

Needed: 1200wd humor editorial on the humorous relationship between the ammunition used during the CW and WWI. Sourcing required but kept OF.
Page/Section/Category: Editorial

YOU'RE the writer who turned that down?! I'm so grateful. I may not have been their first or even second choice, but it was just the opportunity I had been waiting for. Honestly, so few people have a sense of humor when it comes to ammunition of that era.

It's easy to get laughs out of tanks and big guns. Thurber's best but least known work was for Heavy Artillary Quarterly, long before he made a successful submission to The New Yorker.

Ammunition humor is a tougher sell. But infinitely more rewarding.

If you turn down any more of these, let me know!

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

Oh yes, that always makes me ROFL thinking about.
wtf?

/Ice

Yeah, well if you see the whole post, my agent was refering to the fact that I had already written a similar article that we could not pull from file because I still didn't have the rights optioning back on it....lol.

And honestly, there is some humor to be found in the archaic use of military equipment during WWI. But certainly not funny to everyone.

~WOK

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

If you turn down any more of these, let me know!

lol.... I get tons of them. I'm sure I could send em to your agent if you'd like (that particular publication does not accept unsolicited work).

~WOK

 

[shereads]

(that particular publication does not accept unsolicited work).

I imagine they get tons of it, too!

They should consider an unpublished address. That's what The Onion had to do to stop the flood of unsolicited humor pieces about the so-called "tommy gun."

 

[wornoutkeyboard]

I imagine they get tons of it, too!

They should consider an unpublished address. That's what The Onion had to do to stop the flood of unsolicited humor pieces about the so-called "tommy gun."

Bogged down and backed up for months.

That's what they'd be if the took USMs.

~WOK


PS~ Seriously, real freak-oids read that stuff and obsess on it while stroking their personal armory in their mama's basement. I would bet they actually do get a lot of whack-jobs trying to submit "Why Me Love Gunz and Beer" by Billy Bob or "How the Government is Controlling Our Minds Through 'The Sopranos'."

Whack jobs I tell ya.... trust me... I have actually gotten "fan mail" *shiver* from some of em.

 

[shereads]

"How the Government is Controlling Our Minds Through 'The Sopranos'."

Dammit, that was MY article!

 

[Gary Chambers]

Can't see that ever happening..

Raphy, I understand your conclusion on this and I have no solid evidence to argue the point, but I'll nevertheless go out on a limb and say I think you're wrong. I believe it is going to happen, it's just a matter of when it happens and who makes the breakthrough.

Every hard copy publisher from small local newspapers and regional magazines to big outfits like the N.Y. Times, Conde Naste and IMAP are investing a lot of money and labour in trying to find ways to make this medium pay. None have yet succeeded. But don't forget these big players are stymied to some degree by their own corporate policies and fears of change. In a way I think smaller publishers, even self publishing writers, may have an edge in this market, but their problems are usually capital and building the broad network of talent required to compete for Web readers. There are thousands of us trying one experiment after another, however, and I do believe that one day someone will find a profitable formula that everyone will then adopt.

My own experiments have convinced me that aiming new online publications at national or international markets is a dead loss. It requires too big of a network of people spread over too large an area. Big outfits like wire services or those major periodical publishers are the only people with such networks, but they're afraid to make the necessary adjustments to their approach. They just want to publish exactly what they publish in hard copy without the cost of turning on a press.

I believe the breakthrough is more likely to result from a smaller operator making an online publishing concept work on a more local or regional basis. It means giving people what they want, however, and advertisers are too conservative to risk supporting publications like that. This means the winning formula will probably make all of its initial profits from readers and not advertisers. The advertisers will jump in later when they realise it's the only way to reach their targeted readers.

Sometimes I think what's needed is a network of writers and photographers who all have at least some Web developement skills too. If such a group formed a sort of co-op and all fed each other content to publish multiple online editions, with each edition aimed at a local or regional market, then I think it might be able to compete with the big players. And since each member of the co-op would be publishing independently, it wouldn't require massive amounts of money to get started.

 

[Icingsugar]

Can't see that ever happening..

I can.
There are profitable ventures on the web already. PÅublications and services that actually generate cachflow in the right direction.

I do lots of work for web publications that are not black holes eating transferd money and venture funding, but actually balance their accounts or makes profit with either advertising or subscriptions.

/Ice

 

[shereads]

If you mean making online publications pay - it's starting to happen. It must, because I recently found myself PAYING - actually paying, which shocked me! - for an "upgraded" version of an online newsmagazine.

I paid to avoid the commercials.

True! Salon.com began selling a 30-second flash movie promotional space that you had to sit through each time you logged on as a free subscriber. If you bought the "premium" subscription, no commercial. After five or six times, it seemed worth the money.

The brilliance of it! Everybody's been trying to make money getting us to click on the banners and watch the flash movies; Salon figured out that we'd pay to avoid them.

Bingo.

 

[Gary Chambers]

I was just checking out new stories and came across an article recently added by MorganHawke, called Writing Smut For Profit. Anyone with an interest in this thread might like to check it out. Here's a link:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=115532

I found it a bit cynical in places, but cynicism is a hazard of the profession so it wasn't inappropriate, and I think there's a lot of truth in the article.

 

[Javagirl]

it's a long haul!

Hi, I couldn't make it as a freelance writer and consultant so I had to go back to the big bad world...I worked a stint as a freelancer a few years ago after I was laid off from my publishing job...but I can't complain about my day job now as a fundraiser--very rewarding work--for a big health non profit and event planning/PR is my background.

I still take on freelance assignments and moonlight as a freelance writer and also write poetry. Writing is a tough gig. I wish with all my heart I could do it full time, but I am single and I need benefits with a steady income. My degree was in Journalism and writing is my true love. I write stories here on Literotica and adore erotica writing and am trying to figure out how to make some money off my creative, sexy brain

In the non-erotica world, I do write feature-style articles and am also a student of yoga and teach yoga. It's so true--you need to write about what you know. I've written various articles ranging from yoga, health/fitness, to American culture/pop culture type articles. I've also had a lot of my poetry published. I've had to hit the pavement to bring in these extra assignments on the side, but my passion for writing is what keeps me plugging along with my writing!

If you love to write, then don't stop!! I will never forget when my ***hole of an ex-boyfriend walked out on me and told me before he left, out of his jealousy for my talent as a writer because his screenplay sucked and no one would look at it, that I'd never make it as a writer. I'm proving him wrong and I carry that with me all the time. Believe in your dreams and believe in your writing talents, and only be around people who will support you and your writing goals.

If you don't have a professional writing background, take as many English and writing classes as you can and/or find a friend with a writing/editing background who can help you. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't have a command of the English language and you need that command of language in order to write effectively.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to reply/contact me at calwritergal@yahoo.com

Good luck hon

 

[raphy]

If you mean making online publications pay - it's starting to happen. It must, because I recently found myself PAYING - actually paying, which shocked me! - for an "upgraded" version of an online newsmagazine.

I paid to avoid the commercials.

True! Salon.com began selling a 30-second flash movie promotional space that you had to sit through each time you logged on as a free subscriber. If you bought the "premium" subscription, no commercial. After five or six times, it seemed worth the money.

The brilliance of it! Everybody's been trying to make money getting us to click on the banners and watch the flash movies; Salon figured out that we'd pay to avoid them.

Bingo.

Oh, I just don't go to those websites

Raph, big fan of keeping the internet free.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I didn't mean I could do them easily, I meant I could stomach to do them if I had to.

I'm off to read the rest of your post. I don't know about that article assignment- it sounds near impossible to me. I was thinking "25 ways to save money/loose weight/organize your time"

Penile dysfunction and VD- I wouldn't even know where to start

Hehe.... so you think those glossy little annoying articles are something you could do easily?

Well...here's a challenge for ya (maybe it will tell you whether freelance is something you could hack).... I want you to write me a 5 sourced article for a men's magazine about the relationship between VD and penile dysfunction. Skew it against the pharmaceutical companies. It is due by next Friday. It will be under "health and fitness" so you need to keep it under about 2K words.



~WOK

 

[sweetnpetite]

. As a zine article writer you are a writing slut and it is best to know your place. You will submit 3000 beautiful words and what will make it to print is a 1400wd hack job. And you will learn to say "please master may I have some more". Period.

OK...enough of my blathering.

~WOK

I can't wait

Thanks and continue to blather all you like. I'll be listening.