Fucked up BB dichotomies

[KillerMuffin]

I am a Conservative who writes pornography.
I am a Conservative who thinks drugs should be legalized.

That's fucked up.

Can you think of any other oxymorons who live among us?

 

[lilfrk]

Holy Cow KM! I'm conservative and think the same as you. What's the world coming to?

 

[Never]

KillerMuffin
"I am a Conservative who writes pornography.
I am a Conservative who thinks drugs should be legalized.

That's fucked up."

Maybe you should be questioning what a 'conservative' really is.

 

[miles]

KillerMuffin = Libertarian

 

[Never]

Shhh.. you'll get tied to the rollbar.

 

[KillerMuffin]

LOL, miles, darling, I vote republican cause I'm military and the GOP has historically always been good for the military.

I don't know what the libertarian views on the military are.

 

[Never]

I think I need to start my own political party.

 

[lavender]

 

[Never]

Speak gently and carry a big gun.

 

[Guru]

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Re: Fucked up BB dichotomies

Smaller, less intrusive government? Personal Freedom? Those are true conservative beliefs. Right-wing socialists believe that gov't should legislate their own version of morality, and impose it on everyone else. That's what is fucked -up. Not you.

I disagree; some people who hold those beliefs cal lthemselves "conservatives", but those views are Libertarian, or if you go back to the classical definition a Liberal. Today's "Liberals" are really neo-liberals or more correctly, socialists or progressive socialists.

Go back any time before FDR and "progressives" and you will see the use of the term "Liberal" applied classically to those who are now known as Libertarian.

A Conservative is someone who wants to maintain the status quo, nothing more.


Conservative: of or relating to a philosophy of conservatism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party professing the principles of conservatism : as (1) : of or constituting a party of the United Kingdom advocating support of established institutions (2) : PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE
3 a : tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL b : marked by moderation or caution <a conservative estimate> c : marked by or relating to traditional norms of taste, elegance, style, or manners <a conservative suit>

Liberal: of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives

Liberalism: a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil

STG

 

[KillerMuffin]

Thanks STG. Um. Could you repeat that in hick-ese?

 

[Starfish]

I am a hippie that thinks guns and muffins are sexy together.

 

[Never]

I am a hippie that thinks guns and muffins are sexy together.

You can be in my political party.

 

[Starfish]

Fuck yeah!!!!!!!!


I am in Never's political party!



Today has just been fucking perfect.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Is one of your party requirments to have a babes'n guns pic site in your favorites? I've got that. Unfortunately, I don't have G-man's packed and stacked calendar, but PC does.

Well... I do have a pic of my mostly naked, heaving tatas cradling a Mossberg... It's one of the Stud's favorites. That's not for sharing though. Would that qualify for admission?

 

[miles]

Right-wing socialists



WTF?

That belongs with Carlins' list of oxymorons:

Jumbo Shrimp, Home Office, etc.

 

[Laurel]

I think he means the people currently running the Republican party. They're Social Conservatives - the ones who believe in forcing Family Values down our throats. As opposed to Fiscal Conservatives, who favor less govenment involvement in commerce.

The problem is that parties change. My next door neighbor is a long-time Republican who is frustrated with the current GOP. He believes in less government. The current GOP, he feels, is too concerned with their own social programs. The reason he doesn't like the Dems is that they always want to get money to push what he feels is their social agenda. When he sees Bush trying to give tax breaks to the Salvation Army and wanting to the government to fund Character Education and his School Voucher stuff, he's irritated.

He feels he's a true Conservative (as he likes to tell me every time we see each other - he gets rather happy with having someone to talk to, lol - he's a great guy) who believes in less government. He's pro-choice, not because he favors abortion (he doesn't) but because he doesn't think government should be involved in that or any other decision. He's baffled by the GOP's anti-marijuana stance. "It's none of their business what I smoke!" he tells me. But back when he was young, he tells me, it wasn't like that at all. The GOP didn't believe in legislating morality back then. Now they do. So in his mind, they're no different from the Dems.

My friend's grandparents feel the same way, like they got the bait & switch. They'd rather not vote than vote Dem, but they're extremely unhappy with the direction the party they supported has taken.

 

[shadowsource]

Re: Re: Fucked up BB dichotomies

Smaller, less intrusive government? Personal Freedom? Those are true conservative beliefs. Right-wing socialists believe that gov't should legislate their own version of morality, and impose it on everyone else. That's what is fucked -up. Not you.

So I take it you repudiate W Bush as a conservative.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Thanks STG. Um. Could you repeat that in hick-ese?

Sure:

Conservative: someone who doesn't wan't anything to change.

Liberal: Someone who prizes liberty and individual Natural Rights.

Today, people who call themselves liberals are mostly socialists, and people who call themselves conservatives are often liberals.

Go figure.

STG

 

[Laurel]

Sure:

Conservative: someone who doesn't wan't anything to change.

Liberal: Someone who prizes liberty and individual Natural Rights.

Today, people who call themselves liberals are mostly socialists, and people who call themselves conservatives are often liberals.

Go figure.

STG

Nice semantic flip there! Incorrect, though. When I say I'm harbor Liberal views, I mean I harbor Liberal views. Period.

I'm not a Socialist, and I'm a little annoyed at the Rush/O'Reilly crowd's attempts to redefine what I believe for me. How would you feel if the media were constantly equating Conservatism with Fascism? It would annoy you, would it not? Let's all try dealing with actual issues and put the pretty labels away for a while. Name-calling sure makes life easier, but it doesn't add squat to the debate. Just my $0.02.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Nice semantic flip there! Incorrect, though. When I say I'm harbor Liberal views, I mean I harbor Liberal views. Period.

I'm not a Socialist, and I'm a little annoyed at the Rush/O'Reilly crowd's attempts to redefine what I believe for me.

Fuck Rush and the horse he rode in on - he doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

I am not redefining the meaning of "Liberal"; neo-liberals, progressives and socialist did that in the early part of this century. If you go back to the classical definition of Liberal in political science textbooks you will see I am correct. In fact, most current dictionaries and philosophy reference books bear me out.

Hayek is recognized as a Liberal, as is Locke, and John Stuart Mill - all figureheads of the Libertarians.

Meanings of words change and sometimes they are intentionally warped by those that want to use them for their own purposes. The meanings of the words are so muddled now that the true Liberals gave up and started calling themselves Libertarians rather than fight a loosing battle.

How would you feel if the media were constantly equating Conservatism with Fascism? It would annoy you, would it not?

Only in so far as they are getting it wrong - since I am not a Conservative it doesn't bother me any more than that.

Let's all try dealing with actual issues and put the pretty labels away for a while. Name-calling sure makes life easier, but it doesn't add squat to the debate. Just my $0.02.

Someone asked, I offered my views. I do think it is important to know the meanings of terminology used, and if those meanings have become muddled in use, it is instructive to know their history.

STG

 

[KillerMuffin]

I believe:

You should be able to drink at 18. You die for your country at 18, you should be able to get drunk before doing it.

You should be able to purchase any "recreational" drug you want, like alcohol, nicotine, and caffiene are purchasable. I disagree with every once of my being about doing drugs, but I don't think it's the government's business. You shouldn't be able to get social security disability or medicaid for an addiction. I agree that you should be able to do heroin if you want, but I don't want to pay for the after affects. It's your own problem.

You should be able to own any firearm you want. Again, it's no one's business what kinds of things you buy.

I cheer the Federation of American Scientists on. Though certain data needs to be classified because we have enemies, who shot JFK and where Jimmy Hoffa is buried isn't necessary to classify. We already know the US government plays dirty political pool.

I think that voting should be mandatory, not voluntary. It's not just a right, it's a responsiblity. Make it a parking ticket level fine for not voting. 25 bucks and you're off the hook.

I think there should be a time limit for welfare. Welfare benefits should be expanded to make getting an education when you're flat broke and have kids feasible. That's social reform. Handouts aren't.

I think we need a very strong military. We have enemies, we have shipping lanes, we have allies who have enemies. I don't think we should ever put a single American serviceman under the command of a non-us person. If we're in that situation, it's not a war, it's a police action and it's none of our business. I would have been highly pissed off if some superpower had come in during the civil war and "policed" it. People fight for a reason.

I think the President needs to understand that he's not the King. He serves us, not the other way around.

I think we should abolish the death penalty. Not because we're killing bad guys, but because we're also killing innocent people. The life of one innocent man does not qualify as acceptable losses.

I think that abortion should be made illegal beyond the first trimester. The only stipulations should be in cases of rape where the woman can demonstrate that she didn't know she was pregnant or her life is in danger and abortion is the only option to save her. It shouldn't be legal in the third trimester at all, babies can live on their own that far along and a c-section takes less time than a partial birth. I'm against abortion completely, but I don't think the government should dictate in that. I also don't think the woman should decide whether or not something gets to live or die.

I think that the state legislative races should be more important than the federal government's. I think that the state should be in control of all of the funds that are part of running it. Like highway and education. Federal taxes should be lowered and state taxes should be raised to reflect that. I realize that rich states would have a better education system and highways than poor states, but my property taxes wouldn't bear the brunt of it locally. Stronger state governments where it's needed and weaker federal government where it's needed.

I think that there should be a percentage of land a foreign concern is allowed to own. No more than 5% of a state's total acreage should be owned by people who are not or don't intend to be citizens.

I think environmental concerns should supercede capital concerns when it comes to manufacturing. Business who pull their stuff out of the US for cheaper climes should have their import duties and tariffs raised.

Anyway, dinnertime. Hasta.

 

[Always]

I'm a Democrat who thinks the government should bug the fuck off and stay out of my business.



[It really pisses me off to watch parents saying to their kids, "Drugs are bad," as they smoke their cigarrettes, drink their coffee, and pop their happy pills.]

 

[WriterDom]

LOL, miles, darling, I vote republican cause I'm military and the GOP has historically always been good for the military.

I don't know what the libertarian views on the military are.

Libertarians would cut defense spending in half according to their platform:

Libertarian Party on Defense



Reduce defense spending by half; just defend the US
Certainly America’s defense capability should be strong enough to defend the United States. However, the US now accounts for 37% of all the world’s military spending. Another 30% of world military spending is by countries in Western Europe along with Japan, South Korea, and Israel -- nations which pose no conceivable threat to the US.
Russia, our former Cold War adversary, certainly represents no military threat. Our military budget is $260 billion; Russia’s is less than $80 billion. China spends less than $7 billion on defense. The most commonly cited rogue states -- Iran, Iraq, Libya, Syria, North Korea, and Cuba spend a combined $15 billion. Nowhere are American vital interests under attack or even seriously threatened.

If the US were to pursue a policy of defending its own borders while avoiding foreign intervention, we could realistically reduce our defense budget to as little as $125 billion over the next five years.