Fuck Patriotism

[Faneros]

Your definition is a subjective one. It does not answer the question "What is patriotism?" It answers the question, "What does patriotism mean to you?"

Definition of patriotism:

Merriam Webster

American Heritage

When did you ask, What is Patriotism???

 

[richard_daily]

OK...

No one on this thread is saying "I hate freedom!" or "I'd rather live in a third world country."

But that's all some people hear (incorrectly) when anyone is critical of their own country...

These are the same people who would have been against the US revolting from Great Britain in the first place if they had been born in a different time... the people who make excuses for what's wrong, and try to downplay anyone trying to make our country (and the world) a better place.
They're obstructionist, and they refuse to actually argue points, they prefer reactionary techniques... Hmm, sounds just like the terrorists to me.

 

[Nott]

I'm basically an idiot.

So move to some hell hole of a third world country and die in a ditch.

No one will care.

 

[Willie Stroker]

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/spotlight-looney.jpg

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

When did you ask, What is Patriotism???

I didn't. My point is that you used your personal definition in order to tell me what I am and what I think.

 

[Faneros]

So move to some hell hole of a third world country and die in a ditch.

No one will care.

She won't move, she loves living here! She's an asshole!

I like living here, actually I like it very much

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

But that's all some people hear (incorrectly) when anyone is critical of their own country...

These are the same people who would have been against the US revolting from Great Britain in the first place if they had been born in a different time... the people who make excuses for what's wrong, and try to downplay anyone trying to make our country (and the world) a better place.
They're obstructionist, and they refuse to actually argue points, they prefer reactionary techniques... Hmm, sounds just like the terrorists to me.

Why do you hate America?

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

She won't move, she loves living here! What an asshole!

I like living here, actually I like it very much

I didn't say I love it, I said I like it. But the actions of our government, and of US corporate interests makes it impossible for me to love this country. In many instances, this country embarrasses me. Blind love and devotion? I think not.

 

[GirlMidnite]

I didn't say I love it, I said I like it. But the actions of our government, and of US corporate interests makes it impossible for me to love this country. In many instances, this country embarrasses me. Blind love and devotion? I think not.

Staunch, muscular patriotism will becoming increasingly archaic in a globalised age where borders will become increasingly blurred through technology and affordable travel; it belongs to an age where your immediate neighbours were the only people you spoke to on a frequent basis, not the person sitting on the other end of the computer/telephone in 'x' other country. Globalisation means that we live in an age where living in a better world seems to be a more meaningful social goal than just living in a better country (which is what colonialism brought to many Western nations.)

Saying that, I am a 'soft' patriot of both my countries (I guess I'm a bipatriot ), I know neither are perfect, both have questionable cultural institutions etc, but I can't help but feel very fond of both of them and recognise that I benefit from being able to partake, even loosely (as a minority member in both) as a citizen, more so than other cultures I have been exposed to. I feel the best aspects of both countries are worth protecting, but I would (and do) quite happily criticise and disown their worst aspects as well.

 

[richard_daily]

I didn't say I love it, I said I like it. But the actions of our government, and of US corporate interests makes it impossible for me to love this country. In many instances, this country embarrasses me. Blind love and devotion? I think not.

It's funny how much these people who keep making excuses sound like partners stuck in abusive relationships.

You feel bad for them, and wish that you could help, but there's really nothing you can do until they stop making excuses and want to see a better life for themselves.

 

[Fyreguy2006]

I don't think there are too many civil war veterans still alive Now that's funny right there. No not really, it is pitifully sad that you had to mention something that stupid. , and seeing as that's the last war fought on US soil, I think you'd be hard pressed to prove your point about veterans of all wars and conflicts protecting american's freedom. No, I wouldn't and all you have is your opinion against mine. I don't believe I said I agreed with all of our military actions. BUT if I did please quote me so I can see that. Otherwise stop making dumbass comments about what you perceived I said.

Want better freedom? Get an administration in power with a decent head on their shoulders and a strong sense of the world around them. Ahhh, like the idiotic policies of past presidents to negotiate with people who have made it clear all they have in mind is to destroy our country? Brilliant.

Get an administration in power that understands that we're not the only nation in the world, but we've been acting that way for the last 100 years, and that's why the rest of the world is so pissed off at us. They are only pissed off at us until they need help from some disaster. Then like stupid children we help them recover so they can come back stronger and shit on us yet again. I am all for telling most of the world that we give foreign aid to to kiss our ass. I would pull ALL of our military out of Europe and leave scorched Earth at those bases, not one thing of value left behind. If they don't want us there then let's leave and leave not one shred of anything that will benefit them when we do. I wonder though, what would the unemployment be in those former US military base locations once we were gone?

When you throw your weight around (through these very conflicts that you speak of), you create far more enemies than you destroy. It's a never-ending cycle. Sure. I don't recal speaking of any conflicts other than to say I thank the living veterans that I see. Do tell where I mentioned any specific conflict...

Want more and more wars? Go ahead and enlist. I'm not going to criticize you personally, but name me one war since world war two that had a just cause. (and even that war had more than it's fair share of scetchyness on our countries part) I promise you I can show you otherwise with history and fact. See here is where you lose credibility and become a wacko isolationist. Regardless of what led up to it the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. That was the final straw that led to the US entering WWII. I know that there are all kinds of theories that FDR knew and so on. Frankly it is irrelevant to me. we were attacked. Gosh, and we were on 9/11 too. Or have you forgotten? I haven't I lost 343 Brother Firefighters that day. (Pssst, by the way sketchiness is spelled with an I)

Why don't we even DECLARE war anymore? Because there would be too much accountability. There are international RULES when you go to war, and for the most part, our governement is looking for ways around those rules. That's another sore spot with the international community. You know... The rest of the world. The world we're a part of. Uh huh, you mean the rest of the world that hates us until they need us? The rest of the world that undermines us at every turn, until they need us?

A good foreign policy and a more isolationist stance would serve the people of our country, their well being, and our economy (the total economy, not just the rich and powerful and those who own interest in these multinational corporations). Isolationist stance...right, while 3rd world countries that have sworn to destroy us develop nuclear weapons unchecked. BRILLIANT. Ummm, in case you haven't noticed it is no longer 1940.

Instead of running around worrying about what's going on in the middleeast (which serves investors), we should be worrying about our crumbling infastructure and school systems, our rapidly increasing debt, our declining dollar.. We should be looking for ways to decrease our dependence on foreign countries that fuels our desire for these conflicts in the first place. If you're a TRUE patriot, these would be the things you're concerned about. You know... OUR country. You sir are frankly ignorant beyond belief...it would be delightful trying to fix those problems with car bombs going off and terrorists running the streets of our country. Explain to me what you believe the proper reaction to 9/11 should have been? Apologizing to the world? Sorry no fucking way. I want all those involved hunted down and KILLED.

War is good for business, the problem is, we've been at war since about 1916. Looking for conflicts to enter ourselves into to keep this economy going. It's a poor solution to running the country well. It worked through the 50s (for the most part), because people were amped up on the causes of WW2. Since it's a never-ending war at this stage in the game, we keep looking for new enemies, new boogiemen. We create them. Bin Laden, Hussein, both propped up and in Bin Ladens' case directly put into power by our own government. As I have said elsewhere I am not blind to the idiotic mistakes made by my own governement.

You get what you pay for, and we're trillions in debt because of this war.

We are CERTAINLY not anymore free due to it. Quite the opposite. Our liberties and freedoms are being curtailed at a rate that we've never seen. And we all just sit idly by because apathy rules due in part to most peoples' view that there is no effective leadership, and for the most part, they're right. Really? Tell me what freedoms YOU personally have lost? I was not terribly inconvenienced by having to remove my shoes when I flew, I was not terribly inconvenienced walking through metal detectors in DC last spring. So please tell me what freedoms YOU have lost. I can't wait.


You need millions upon millions to mount a successful campaign. Elections aren't won (if you still even believe they are actually won) by merit or leadership qualities, they are won by PR and cash. Two things that an effective leader that actually wants the best for this country would care very little about. So since you feel powerless and won't do anything to affect chnage you have become nothing more than a country hating whiner. WOW, that's beneficial.

You are just another angry do nothing since you have lost faith.

Have a nice life.

 

[JustSkye]

You are just another angry do nothing since you have lost faith.

Have a nice life.

"War is good for business, the problem is, we've been at war since about 1916. Looking for conflicts to enter ourselves into to keep this economy going. It's a poor solution to running the country well. It worked through the 50s (for the most part), because people were amped up on the causes of WW2. Since it's a never-ending war at this stage in the game, we keep looking for new enemies, new boogiemen. We create them. Bin Laden, Hussein, both propped up and in Bin Ladens' case directly put into power by our own government. As I have said elsewhere I am not blind to the idiotic mistakes made by my own governement."

Mistakes?? Christ. Blantant outright lies and schemes.

Mistakes...? What a joke. Talk about apologizing.

 

[Fyreguy2006]

So you pass judgement on people who's families have been in this country more than a hundred years before your family even showed up on the scene?

Nope, you attempted to make some point that was irrelevant to what I was talking about about slavery and Native Americans. I personally have no guilt about how those groups were treated by early Americans. Do I find the way they were treated shameful and a major negative time in our history? Of course I do. But neither I nor my descendants owned slaves or were involved in Native American genocide. So once again, I can see the wrong, but I feel no guilt since I was not involved and most certainly my family was not in the country during these times to affect change to stop the behavior.

I have no personal shame regarding Native American genocide or human slavery in the U.S.. That's not the point. It's completely understandable that Native Americans and descendants of slaves are not a bunch of flag waving, alliegance pledging, oath swearing patriots. Just like their American heroes Sitting Bull and Malcolm X.

Really? Hmmm, I guess you never heard of the Navaho radio operators of WWII or the Tuskegee air men an all Black fighter squadron of WWII. Your blanket statement has no basis in fact and is merely your opinion.

Why would you expect that I would deny people the right to believe in their American heros Malcolm X and Sitting Bull? They were both strong individuals pushing for the rights of their people.

Believe what you wish, but stop putting words in my mouth.

Have a nice day.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

You are just another angry do nothing since you have lost faith.

Have a nice life.

You've really swallowed the kool-aid, haven't you?

 

[Fyreguy2006]

"War is good for business, the problem is, we've been at war since about 1916. Looking for conflicts to enter ourselves into to keep this economy going. It's a poor solution to running the country well. It worked through the 50s (for the most part), because people were amped up on the causes of WW2. Since it's a never-ending war at this stage in the game, we keep looking for new enemies, new boogiemen. We create them. Bin Laden, Hussein, both propped up and in Bin Ladens' case directly put into power by our own government. As I have said elsewhere I am not blind to the idiotic mistakes made by my own governement."

Mistakes?? Christ. Blantant outright lies and schemes.

Mistakes...? What a joke. Talk about apologizing.

And yet where is the same criticism of past Presidents. Clinton, Carter and more who FAILED to act appropriately to things happening in the world and allowed problems to escalate. 400 plus days of Americans being held hostage?? Please, talk about a limp dick president. As soon as Reagan was sworn in the hostages were released... If Clinton could have kept his mind on his big head instead of the little one he had multiple opportunities to take out Bin Laden. He chose not to do it. He never fully reacted to ANY terrorist action or threat. BRILLIANT.

Every President has lied, schemed and more. It is not a damn thing new. What is new over the past couple of Presidents is the amazing amount of blatant hatred for the president if he wasn't your party's choice.

Have a nice day.

 

[Fyreguy2006]

You've really swallowed the kool-aid, haven't you?

Nope. But you appear to have swallowed something very, very bitter. While you enjoy the freedoms that are available to you you despise the country that gives them to you. Amazing. The truth is we have different views of our country and like your hating the country you dislike my view because I am relatively content. Sorry that bothers you. Might I suggest a cold adult beverage and a relaxing chair?

 

[JustSkye]

And yet where is the same criticism of past Presidents. Clinton, Carter and more who FAILED to act appropriately to things happening in the world and allowed problems to escalate. 400 plus days of Americans being held hostage?? Please, talk about a limp dick president. As soon as Reagan was sworn in the hostages were released... If Clinton could have kept his mind on his big head instead of the little one he had multiple opportunities to take out Bin Laden. He chose not to do it. He never fully reacted to ANY terrorist action or threat. BRILLIANT.

Every President has lied, schemed and more. It is not a damn thing new. What is new over the past couple of Presidents is the amazing amount of blatant hatred for the president if he wasn't your party's choice.

Have a nice day.

He wasn't mine or millions of other's choices either. He's contorted laws and the constitution to suit whatever he has needed, and then if it didn't, made changes so it would.

You saying he's made mistakes is quite laughable.

 

[Radiohead]

And yet where is the same criticism of past Presidents. Clinton, Carter and more who FAILED to act appropriately to things happening in the world and allowed problems to escalate. 400 plus days of Americans being held hostage?? Please, talk about a limp dick president. As soon as Reagan was sworn in the hostages were released... If Clinton could have kept his mind on his big head instead of the little one he had multiple opportunities to take out Bin Laden. He chose not to do it. He never fully reacted to ANY terrorist action or threat. BRILLIANT.

Yes, that was handy of him, making sure that GB1 thought that oh, we installed the iraqi government but now we'll pretend to blow them up and have them go away for a while, before GB2 decides really that Osama is the problem but since we cant find him, we'll hit Iraq cause it was their fault Osama decided to send a few people to hit a few buildings?

Wait, Ronald should have taken care of that right away.

 

[Fyreguy2006]

He wasn't mine or millions of other's choices either. He's contorted laws and the constitution to suit whatever he has needed, and then if it didn't, made changes so it would.

You saying he's made mistakes is quite laughable.

No, what is laughable is how obviously naive you are. Please don't tell me you believe this is the first president that has done any of this kind of thing and further more polease don't tell me you believe it is an only Republican trait. Because if you go there lets talk about Truman, Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ and Nixon's lies and scheming that got us bogged down in Viet Nam. ( so you don't have to look it up, Truman, JFK and LBJ were Democrats, Eisenhower, and Nixon were Republicans)

 

[Fyreguy2006]

Yes, that was handy of him, making sure that GB1 thought that oh, we installed the iraqi government but now we'll pretend to blow them up and have them go away for a while, before GB2 decides really that Osama is the problem but since we cant find him, we'll hit Iraq cause it was their fault Osama decided to send a few people to hit a few buildings?

Wait, Ronald should have taken care of that right away.

Right what ever the hell point you are trying to make. Could you be a little more convoluted next time please?

 

[JustSkye]

No, what is laughable is how obviously naive you are. Please don't tell me you believe this is the first president that has done any of this kind of thing and further more polease don't tell me you believe it is an only Republican trait. Because if you go there lets talk about Truman, Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ and Nixon's lies and scheming that got us bogged down in Viet Nam. ( so you don't have to look it up, Truman, JFK and LBJ were Democrats, Eisenhower, and Nixon were Republicans)

You're wrong to think I am. AND, what we're in now, is so much more a worse clusterfuck than Viet Nam. Tell me, how do you think we'll get out of this? Hmm?

He keeps touting that the country is doing great...riiiight. Dollar is down, housing foreclosures are some of the worst we've seen in such a very long time, our soldiers are not getting the care they deserve coming home wounded, jobs opps are not what he claims they are...
Go ahead and tell me how great our country is doing.
Tell me what a great job he's done and all the great things he's done since being in office. Come on...

 

[cjh]

No, what is laughable is how obviously naive you are. Please don't tell me you believe this is the first president that has done any of this kind of thing and further more polease don't tell me you believe it is an only Republican trait. Because if you go there lets talk about Truman, Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ and Nixon's lies and scheming that got us bogged down in Viet Nam. ( so you don't have to look it up, Truman, JFK and LBJ were Democrats, Eisenhower, and Nixon were Republicans)

for someone condemning mild cynicism, you are very darkly cynical.

your pronouncements aren't very nuanced. they are rather predictable.

you've got an opinion shared by a significant though shrinking minority of america. big deal.

some people can legitimately pull off condescension here. from what i've seen so far, you're not in that category.

 

[Radiohead]

Right what ever the hell point you are trying to make. Could you be a little more convoluted next time please?

Oh, um, who installed Saddam?

And the answer is?

 

[Fyreguy2006]

You're wrong to think I am. AND, what we're in now, is so much more a worse clusterfuck than Viet Nam. Tell me, how do you think we'll get out of this? Hmm?

He keeps touting that the country is doing great...riiiight. Dollar is down, housing foreclosures are some of the worst we've seen in such a very long time, our soldiers are not getting the care they deserve coming home wounded, jobs opps are not what he claims they are...
Go ahead and tell me how great our country is doing.
Tell me what a great job he's done and all the great things he's done since being in office. Come on...

Golly, I didn't realize this was about me being GWB's cheerleader.

Frankly I was in favor of the war in Afghanistan and initially I was in favor of the war in Iraq. Both wars were quickly won but then the hard truth that winning a war isn't quite the same as maintaining the peace. Honestly if it were me I would be concentrating on training the Iraqi's and then getting the fuck out of there.

Be glad to, as soon as you tell me what Clinton did in 8 years...besides get his dick sucked and creating a false economy that collapsed ruining thousands of people's lives.

 

[JustSkye]

Golly, I didn't realize this was about me being GWB's cheerleader.

Frankly I was in favor of the war in Afghanistan and initially I was in favor of the war in Iraq. Both wars were quickly won but then the hard truth that winning a war isn't quite the same as maintaining the peace. Honestly if it were me I would be concentrating on training the Iraqi's and then getting the fuck out of there.

Be glad to, as soon as you tell me what Clinton did in 8 years...besides get his dick sucked and creating a false economy that collapsed ruining thousands of people's lives.

yeah...

I didn't think you would.