Fuck! I'm really in the Bible belt now

[sophia jane]

Bill would allow vocal prayer, religious literature in schools

OKLAHOMA CITY Under legislation approved today, students could pray aloud in groups, distribute religious literature and express religious viewpoints to their classmates.
The House Common Education Committee voted eight-to-five to send the measure to the full House for a vote despite concerns expressed by Representative Ray Miller.

Miller, who is a former elementary school superintendent, says the bill will expose public schools to lawsuits over how they administer religious expression.

The measure would authorize a wide variety of religious expression by students as long as they do not infringe upon the rights of other students.

It would also allow students to be absent from school to observe religious holidays and participate in religious practices under the same circumstances that they're allowed to be absent for nonreligious reasons.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Separation of church and state was implemented for a REASON!!!

this is crazy...

 

[rgraham666]

That will last right up until the moment Muslim students lay out their prayer mats five times a day. Or some atheist hands out atheist literature.



True believers rarely think things through.

 

[cloudy]

That will last right up until the moment Muslim students lay out their prayer mats five times a day. Or some atheist hands out atheist literature.



True believers rarely think things through.

yep.

The unwritten part of the law is that it only applies to Christians.

 

[sophia jane]

The woman behind this bill is also behind an intelligent design bill. They want to get ID taught here. Didn't they learn anything from the battles in other states???

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Sure does open a great big-ass door, doesn't it?

What about the Wiccans?

Or the Satanists, for that matter? It's a religion, too...

 

[rgraham666]

yep.

The unwritten part of the law is that it only applies to Christians.

Just so.

I'm just hoping that this doesn't end in violence. There's a chance some people will take offense at other people's expressions of faith and 'do something about it'.

And sophia? No they can't learn anything. How can they? The True Believers already know everything important. So there's no need to learn more.

 

[sophia jane]

I don't know that it would get violent. But I do think it's offensive. I can just picture my son coming home from school with some leaflet for some church or religion and asking what it's about. And then returning to school and telling the other kids that mom said such and such church/religion believes in whatever it is they believe and explaining why we don't believe it. That's just what we need is kids debating religion at school.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I would be surprised if this makes it long enough to let the ink dry on the governor's signature before there is an injunction against it.

Frankly, they haven't learned anything because they define ignornat. And since they are ignorant, they would have succeeding generations just as ignorant. The difference is, they are ignorant of their own volition while they hope to instituionalize sutpidiy involunatirly on others.

to them, thre is purity in being colossal ignoramouses. Luckily, stupidity is the only universal captial crime. Hopefully they will all find an amusing way to kill themselves off before they hurt someone.

 

[sophia jane]

I would be surprised if this makes it long enough to let the ink dry on the governor's signature before there is an injunction against it.

Frankly, they haven't learned anything because they define ignornat. And since they are ignorant, they would have succeeding generations just as ignorant. The difference is, they are ignorant of their own volition while they hope to instituionalize sutpidiy involunatirly on others.

to them, thre is purity in being colossal ignoramouses. Luckily, stupidity is the only universal captial crime. Hopefully they will all find an amusing way to kill themselves off before they hurt someone.

Excellently put, Colly!

 

[kendo1]

Excellently put, Colly!

So, you don't believe in ID?

 

[English Lady]

Are "True Believers" an actual Christian sect, or is it just a name people have decided upon to refer to Christians who do before they think? If it's the latter, do you mind if I get a bit annoyed about it?

I'm not going to get into this whole debate, as i know it's a whole different kettle of fish over there to over here where we actually have religious studies and assemblies with prayers and stuff (or at least did, last time i looked*L*)and I don't get what all the hoo-hah is about.

But if we're using "True Believer" as an insult for Politically militant church goers , well I don't like it. A true believe should be a positive comment for someone who is a true believer and not a nasty ironic dig...but this whole post prbably proves i shouldn't stick my nose into these kinds of threads

 

[Colleen Thomas]

So, you don't believe in ID?

the only place you will find intelligence in ID is in the name

Seriously, all joking aside, I don't have a problem with ID, so long as it is presented as what it is, a tehological/philosophical endeavor. It's not science and i thas no place being taught alongside or in competition with science.

 

[rgraham666]

Sorry EL.

Allow me to elucidate. When I use the term 'True Believer' I mean someone who believes something without ever, ever considering why they believe it. Or if it's in tune with reality. Or if it's even good. They believe it and that's the end of the matter.

In my lexicon, 'True Believer' applies to many people; Communists, neo-conservatives, Muslims, Jews, capitalists, Buddhists, Hindus and a plethora of other theologies and -isms.

You, I number among The Faithful. Your belief is not concerned with being right, but with being good.

Sorry again.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Are "True Believers" an actual Christian sect, or is it just a name people have decided upon to refer to Christians who do before they think? If it's the latter, do you mind if I get a bit annoyed about it?

I'm not going to get into this whole debate, as i know it's a whole different kettle of fish over there to over here where we actually have religious studies and assemblies with prayers and stuff (or at least did, last time i looked*L*)and I don't get what all the hoo-hah is about.

But if we're using "True Believer" as an insult for Politically militant church goers , well I don't like it. A true believe should be a positive comment for someone who is a true believer and not a nasty ironic dig...but this whole post prbably proves i shouldn't stick my nose into these kinds of threads

El, by and large, True believers over here is a self applilation of the fundamentalist right within the church community. I have been acused of not being a true believer on occasion because I question dogmatic statements.

It may be being used as a slur, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[thambok]

You, I number among The Faithful. Your belief is not concerned with being right, but with being good.

Sorry to hijack, but I think that was put rather eloquently, and does well at highlighting the difference.

 

[rgraham666]

Tanks thambok. It's from an essay I wrote a few years ago for a Mensa magazine. (I used to be a member. )

The original line went, "Ideology is not about being good, but about being right. It's quite amazing what you can do when you're right."

One of my better lines, if I say so myself.

OK. Done bragging.

 

[Kev H]

That will last right up until the moment Muslim students lay out their prayer mats five times a day. Or some atheist hands out atheist literature.



True believers rarely think things through.

You stated exactly what I was thinking - what I have seen from experience (growing up in the deep south). This kind of event/thinking will never surprise you if you remember that faith/belief > intelligence/common sense/understanding.

No offense meant to any believers out there, but religion extolls you for being a sheep. And if you have been around normally intelligent people who are proud to be sheep, you will never be boggled by these things again.

 

[entitled]

It would be easy to put a stop to this, you know. Simply start writing letters. Or write one that's simply brilliant, stating why you don't think it's a good idea, save that sucker, and send it to every person in the state capitol you can think of.

Rude, annoying, but effective.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It would be easy to put a stop to this, you know. Simply start writing letters. Or write one that's simply brilliant, stating why you don't think it's a good idea, save that sucker, and send it to every person in the state capitol you can think of.

Rude, annoying, but effective.

The most simple way to defeat it, is to pose as a concerned citizen and contact the lawmakers who passed.

"I just heard you voted for a bill that will allow satanists to worship in our schools and pass out literature! Is that true?"

Let the CYA begin. Within, oh, I 'd say at least forty five minutes, everyone of them would be proposing a bill to counter the one that hasn't passed yet.

 

[sophia jane]

It would be easy to put a stop to this, you know. Simply start writing letters. Or write one that's simply brilliant, stating why you don't think it's a good idea, save that sucker, and send it to every person in the state capitol you can think of.

Rude, annoying, but effective.

Somehow I doubt one person sending letters, even if it is to everyone, is going to put a stop to the passage of a bill.

 

[entitled]

Somehow I doubt one person sending letters, even if it is to everyone, is going to put a stop to the passage of a bill.

*points to Colly's post*

Depends on how it's worded.

 

[sophia jane]

*points to Colly's post*

Depends on how it's worded.

No. It doesn't. People believe what they believe. When it comes to religion, I could be as eloquent or passionate as I want. I'm not going to change the minds of the people fighting to pass this bill; I would only give them something to argue against.

 

[TheEarl]

I actually sat down and worked this out. If I claimed all of the Wiccan Sabbats as holiday and relinquished the Christian holidays, then I could claim an extra 4 anda half days holiday from my work every year.

I'm not going to because it would be a pain in the arse and I have no need to have the days off for the Sabbats. Still, interesting thought.

The Earl

 

[entitled]

No. It doesn't. People believe what they believe. When it comes to religion, I could be as eloquent or passionate as I want. I'm not going to change the minds of the people fighting to pass this bill; I would only give them something to argue against.

Then you're rolling over and giving up without a fight. Even a fairly passive one.