Ftm

[Stella_Omega]

I've always figured I'd present about the same male or female-- my mantra is "What would Oscar Wilde wear?"

 

[PuppyPlay1993]

That's beautiful.

 

[threebirds]

im a gay trans guy and i think other trans guys are SUPER hot. in fact i would prefer another trans guy to a cis guy a lot of the time, not that i think cis guys suck or anything or are less attractive necessarily, but being with another trans guy would just be so hot and i would never have to worry about him being a chaser or a fetishizer b/c that is kind of a turn off for me. unfortunate though all the trans guys i know are straight *le sigh

 

[Stella_Omega]

im a gay trans guy and i think other trans guys are SUPER hot. in fact i would prefer another trans guy to a cis guy a lot of the time, not that i think cis guys suck or anything or are less attractive necessarily, but being with another trans guy would just be so hot and i would never have to worry about him being a chaser or a fetishizer b/c that is kind of a turn off for me. unfortunate though all the trans guys i know are straight *le sigh

I'm curious, how do gay cis men treat you?

 

[sarod]

what is cis?

I'm curious, how do gay cis men treat you?

 

[Etoile]

what is cis?

The opposite of trans - someone born in the "right" body, who is happy with their natal sex.

 

[none2_none2]

what is cis?

It is a mis-use of a term commonly used in chemistry. "Cis" literally means on the same side; "trans" on the opposide side (across). Both are terms from the Latin language (obviously no big surprise since so much of science uses Latin based words).

For example, you could have two molecules that are made up of the same combination of chemical elements. However, their properties may be totally different based on the arrangement of the components that make up that molecule. It is very important to know these things because one configuration of a molecule could be a lifesaving drug, another configuration useless or even unhealthy.

The one most known by the public is the big debate over trans fatty acids. There is a lot of science behind it, but to get to the point, trans fatty acids have a much longer shelf-life than cis fatty acids, but the negatives are that trans fatty acids raise raise bad cholestrol (LDL) levels, etc.

It isn't easy to explain these things as they are 3-dimentional objects that are best describe with a pictures. I'm by no means an expert. I simply took organic chemistry a few years ago when I thought I would have to change careers. Here is a website with some pictures:

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/209cistrans.html

Why the transgender community thought it would be appropriate to start to refer to gender issues as cis/trans is beyond me. I guess people just like making more labels as if we don't have enough already. One can argue that because cis is the opposite of trans that it is appropriate, but it just feeds into binary gender obsession that so many people have. If you were to try to come up with a list of exactly what it means to be a man/male or woman/female, you might be hard pressed to find anything that is exclusive to either. Gender is much more fluid than that.

 

[McMurphywrites]

Yeah, I really hate all the labels. I printed them all out once and they filled a page. I burned them at a Guy Fawkes party.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Why did the trans community come up with the term "cis" to designate people who are happy with what they are born with?

Simple, really.

Because the alternative was something like "real," which is what the cis had been using all this time. The difference between someone being a "cis" woman or a "real" woman is tremendous-- specially when they are claiming that status in front of a trans woman.

Like it or not, none2, the binary distinctions have to be addressed, and always will be. You can be thankful that the trans community searched out such a non-derogatory, politics-neutral term, in the face of the many insulting ones we have been saddled with by the heteronormative majority.

 

[Etoile]

Why did the trans community come up with the term "cis" to designate people who are happy with what they are born with?

Simple, really.

Because the alternative was something like "real," which is what the cis had been using all this time. The difference between someone being a "cis" woman or a "real" woman is tremendous-- specially when they are claiming that status in front of a trans woman.

Like it or not, none2, the binary distinctions have to be addressed, and always will be. You can be thankful that the trans community searched out such a non-derogatory, politics-neutral term, in the face of the many insulting ones we have been saddled with by the heteronormative majority.

Indeed, and even terms like "natal" or "genetic" can be fraught with tension. Trans women feel that they are born female, just with a male body. Some trans men are not genetically XX, so that can be an issue too. (And "natural," like "real," is just offensive.) So "cis" is just the opposite of trans - nothing more, nothing less.

 

[none2_none2]

Why did the trans community come up with the term "cis" to designate people who are happy with what they are born with?

Simple, really.

Because the alternative was something like "real," which is what the cis had been using all this time. The difference between someone being a "cis" woman or a "real" woman is tremendous-- specially when they are claiming that status in front of a trans woman.

Like it or not, none2, the binary distinctions have to be addressed, and always will be. You can be thankful that the trans community searched out such a non-derogatory, politics-neutral term, in the face of the many insulting ones we have been saddled with by the heteronormative majority.

"Real" absolutely, positively can be one of the most insulting terms to use against someone, and that is not limited to the subject of gender identity. Ask an adopted person about their "real" parents, or ask someone who goes by their middle name what their "real" name is. Some gays and lesbians probably have heard a straight person say that the homosexuality is probably because the gay individual hasn't had a sexual encounter with a "real" man/woman yet...

Still the world doesn't nicely fit into binary terms, people just try to fit a very diverse world into labels that don't fit. Nothing can replace spending the time to get to know someone instead of relying on some human-made labels.

For instance, what about the individual who wants breasts, but loves owning a dick? (This example is not about transitioning transexuals in the adult porn industry who may do it simply to raise funds for the final surgery.) There was a man who wanted to look as much as his late wife as possible There are also men who want to be castrated, have a penectomy, or both (become a nullo). For some it is a sexual fetish, but others actually have gone through with it without regrets. One that isn't so far fetched is plenty of men who wish they had larger equipment. While that particular wish is definitely not transgendered, it lacks being perfectly satisfied with the gender you were born with as are true of the earlier examples I gave. It really wouldn't be fair to lump anything not purely "cis" (completely happy with birth gender) as being "trans" anymore than saying that someone that has 1/512th African ancestry must be considered black.

Another problem with "cis" is that it to be honest, in my mind it makes the connotation of trans a more negative term. Why? Because the most publicized cis/trans example is the chemistry example with cis vs trans fatty acids. Trans fatty acids rarely occure in nature. The ones we have in our food system are unhealthy, unnatural, "man"-made creations of science. That connotation makes "trans" for gender identy almost seem as some kind of mad science - a connotation that one should not want to make. (In all fairness, there has got to be cis/trans molcule examples where the cis orientation is the one that is poisen and the trans version is the healthy/natural one, but not one that is well known to the public.)

As for what Etoile said, is there anything truly negative about the term "natal". It is a description of the state at a certain time -- birth. For instance, would an adoptive parent feel that a reference of the genetic mother as biological/birth/natal mother as being hurtful?

Having been born physically "different" myself, language wouldn't have change that condition or how others perceive it. I could conjure up a terms such as bi-auris, mono-auris, sans-auris, and call the majority bi-auris and myself mono-auris. However, why? It wouldn't change those that where put off about it versus those that weren't. More importantly, it also would not have changed how I felt about myself. Furthermore, being born "different" than the "norm" (wither it be gender or something else) gives someone a fairly unique perspective on life. It should not be considered a negative.

Does using the term "natal" really have anything to do with the human psyche? Seriously, do any of us truly have any clue about our own natal psyche? It seems overly sensitive to be offened by that particular term. Preference/orientation/tendency/(ad nausium) wouldn't budge one bit if someone was a natal gay, a gay as of 4.5 years of age (when i saw a human covered with body hair!) if someone was a stroke induced gay, or if saw Ellen across the room and decided being gay was desirable. Authenticity is independent of how/when/why someone gets there.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree, nothing is truly binary. I'm with you there. But you might as well piss in the wind as rant against the word that we use to describe a certain type of identity-- a type that needed to be named, because before this is was known as "real."

People are not going to stop using the term, and every day more and more people recognise it and agree that it's a legitimate descriptor for "real" men and women.

I'm sorry for you that it's tainted by high-school chemistry or whatever, because you will be hearing it more and more often as the years go by.

It's gotta be one of the few times a minority has successfully named a majority -- except for maybe "honkey" which denotes a spirit of malice entirely non-existent in this case.

 

[threebirds]

I'm curious, how do gay cis men treat you?

good question, depends on how they are coming at me. like, i've never had a gay/bi/pan cis guy approach me and then loose interest b/c I'm trans (at least not to my face) but if i come out as trans in a space with cis gay/bi/trans guys sometimes there will be ones calling me a straight girl and whatnot. that or i'll sometimes get cis bi guys usually who will be like "ftms for me are the perfect blend of man and woman" and I'm like "......."

 

[threebirds]

"Real" absolutely, positively can be one of the most insulting terms to use against someone, and that is not limited to the subject of gender identity. Ask an adopted person about their "real" parents, or ask someone who goes by their middle name what their "real" name is. Some gays and lesbians probably have heard a straight person say that the homosexuality is probably because the gay individual hasn't had a sexual encounter with a "real" man/woman yet...

Still the world doesn't nicely fit into binary terms, people just try to fit a very diverse world into labels that don't fit. Nothing can replace spending the time to get to know someone instead of relying on some human-made labels.

For instance, what about the individual who wants breasts, but loves owning a dick? (This example is not about transitioning transexuals in the adult porn industry who may do it simply to raise funds for the final surgery.) There was a man who wanted to look as much as his late wife as possible There are also men who want to be castrated, have a penectomy, or both (become a nullo). For some it is a sexual fetish, but others actually have gone through with it without regrets. One that isn't so far fetched is plenty of men who wish they had larger equipment. While that particular wish is definitely not transgendered, it lacks being perfectly satisfied with the gender you were born with as are true of the earlier examples I gave. It really wouldn't be fair to lump anything not purely "cis" (completely happy with birth gender) as being "trans" anymore than saying that someone that has 1/512th African ancestry must be considered black.

Another problem with "cis" is that it to be honest, in my mind it makes the connotation of trans a more negative term. Why? Because the most publicized cis/trans example is the chemistry example with cis vs trans fatty acids. Trans fatty acids rarely occure in nature. The ones we have in our food system are unhealthy, unnatural, "man"-made creations of science. That connotation makes "trans" for gender identy almost seem as some kind of mad science - a connotation that one should not want to make. (In all fairness, there has got to be cis/trans molcule examples where the cis orientation is the one that is poisen and the trans version is the healthy/natural one, but not one that is well known to the public.)

As for what Etoile said, is there anything truly negative about the term "natal". It is a description of the state at a certain time -- birth. For instance, would an adoptive parent feel that a reference of the genetic mother as biological/birth/natal mother as being hurtful?

Having been born physically "different" myself, language wouldn't have change that condition or how others perceive it. I could conjure up a terms such as bi-auris, mono-auris, sans-auris, and call the majority bi-auris and myself mono-auris. However, why? It wouldn't change those that where put off about it versus those that weren't. More importantly, it also would not have changed how I felt about myself. Furthermore, being born "different" than the "norm" (wither it be gender or something else) gives someone a fairly unique perspective on life. It should not be considered a negative.

Does using the term "natal" really have anything to do with the human psyche? Seriously, do any of us truly have any clue about our own natal psyche? It seems overly sensitive to be offened by that particular term. Preference/orientation/tendency/(ad nausium) wouldn't budge one bit if someone was a natal gay, a gay as of 4.5 years of age (when i saw a human covered with body hair!) if someone was a stroke induced gay, or if saw Ellen across the room and decided being gay was desirable. Authenticity is independent of how/when/why someone gets there.

we have cis b/c like someone else said its shitty when all of a sudden cis people are "real people" and "biological" and that leaves trans people as idk inorganic or fake. seriously, have your beef with cis, I'm not gonna stop using it. social construction of language is limited, we make it so that we can communicate better, we make more language when we run out of helpful words. its a process, if you have beef with cis come up with something better (not meant to be a rude or negative statement). people go on and on about labels but really a lot of it is about giving language to articulate your identity so you can relate to people, rally for your rights, compare identities, make friends etc. i don't understand, how did this convo get derailed into this. I'm not trying to shut y'all down but i don't think language debate and education was the op's intent. seriously for those of you who may not be aware of terminology, i think its great you are curious and wanna learn more but if you are on lit that obvs means you have google, look it up and if you come up with nothing then ask. dont derail the conversation thread. OR you can start a new thread if you are confused about terminology, loads of people will respond i promise. I'm not saying "don't post on this thread!!!11!" I'm saying "read the first posts and post pertaining to that topic and then post on this thread with something relevant." fer real.

 

[Stella_Omega]

good question, depends on how they are coming at me. like, i've never had a gay/bi/pan cis guy approach me and then loose interest b/c I'm trans (at least not to my face) but if i come out as trans in a space with cis gay/bi/trans guys sometimes there will be ones calling me a straight girl and whatnot. that or i'll sometimes get cis bi guys usually who will be like "ftms for me are the perfect blend of man and woman" and I'm like "......."

it's pretty tricky navigating.