Frustration.

[GuessImJamie]

We (I am writing this after speaking with two other authors on the subject)...
We appreciate the fact that this web-site is somebody's baby, thier livelihood and thier business. We appreciate and understand the need they have to protect the brand and to ensure that things detrimental to its prosperity and growth are not permitted. The fact that this site is the "gold standard" speaks to the effort the owner has put into it.

When we submitted stories to this site we wished to contribute to it (and of course have many, many other read our work) not detract from it.

We offer this message in the same way, hoping to improve the place we wished to be a part of.

I wrote six stories that were published here, the last one six months ago. The lowest score any had today was 4.12. My seventh offering was rejected six months ago as being XYZ, which it was not.

After carefully reviewing the story to ensure that a typo or ambiguous phrase did not cause a misunderstanding I resubmitted it with a note. My note acknowledged the humongous number of submissions this site receives because it is the best site in its genre and asked that my story be reconsidered and that if the reviewer still felt that my story contained XYZ, could they point it out.

The reply equated XYZ to ABC and stated that neither was acceptable without pointing out where either was located (a later response said in QRS, the theme).

In five minutes using google I found over 100 stories on this site using XYZ as a search parameter, many had the coveted red H. Five on the first page WERE TAGGED XYZ. Over 100 were found googling ABC, and QRS is a dictionary synonym of a CATAGORY here.

So months ago I figured that that story just wasn't meant to be. In time I submitted an eighth offering. It was rejected and it CONTAINED THE SAME REJECTION NOTICE as story seven. I figured it was a computer glitch so I resubmitted number eight.

Now I could somewhat see how someone might say that a story about the Chiefs winning the Super Bowl was against site policy because lots of football players get concussions. While still having tons of content about Bart Starr, Joe Namath, Roger Staubach and Joe Montana and the Super Bowls they won.

See it and understand it as a reaction to changing times and the outrage of the day syndrome, while not agreeing with it.

But continuing my analogy I had just submitted a story about Womens Gymnastics...

Eight won't see the light of day. I accept that, I am willing to write on behalf of all three of us because they hope to remain a part of this community.

I am not saying that it isn't a computer issue. Perhaps related to the unresolved submission number seven. But sending eight back with notes requesting clarification results in getting the same canned rejection notice in response.

Its frustrating.

 

[Nezhul]

[spam/advertising/solicitation prohibited per our forum guidelines]

 

[NotWise]

You've obscured the actual topics and reasons for rejection so much that I doubt anyone could possibly help you. What are the stories about? What question did the rejection notice ask you?

 

[SimonDoom]

Am I missing something? I don't understand using code terms standing in for the terms you mean to discuss. It makes it impossible to have a substantive response or discussion regarding the original post.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

What are the dates that XYZ were posted? The site is constantly changing in response to changing laws and—more importantly from a financial perspective—ever-changing credit regulations. In searching the site, I’ve found stories with, e.g., underage sex and suggested bestiality, and those date from the late nineties/early double aughts. But internet commerce laws were very different back then, and a site wouldn’t lose its server or credit card companies for posting that kind of literary content (because there just weren’t credit regulations and contract clauses like that back then). Those old stories may still be on the site but they are not applicable examples of what is/not allowed per ABC, XYZ, QRS or 123.

 

[GuessImJamie]

I fully understand that we live in a bat-shit world that imposes ridiculous, arbitrary and contradictory rules on people*. Often in the misguided attempt to protect idiots from thier own idiotic actions, but I digress.

I am a 66 year old bisexual polyamorous biological female just to sort of set the stage. I am a business owner, a mother and a grandmother.

The Federal (US) Govt says that the average "first time" is 16 months earlier than can be told here, differentiated by gender its six months earlier than that for girls and six months later for boys.

So there shouldn't be any or at least not very many stories about virgins here. By this logic virgin=under age. I'm not stupid, and I understand the difference between two teenagers and a pedophile and a victim. I also understand how monumentally difficult it is to create a one size fits all law or site-policy to prevent harm.

I understand that well intentioned rules can be flouted by the authors statement that "everyone in the story was 18." And those words should not be taken as gospel. But to say a story is "under age" because it deals with two (18 y/o it says in the story) teenagers who thought they knew what they didn't and then figured it out is a teutotomy. It indicts every story in the catagory.

In retrospect being a new author I recognize many mistakes were made in submitting this story, mostly mine through not understanding an unfamiliar process with written instructions that seem to have been written before rules changed. Maybe I just didn't interpret them correctly.

It should have been offered as fiction, not a fond remembrance. While the dialog is accurate it should have been run through a "year 2019 PC speech filter."

The bit about having watched the goats on the farm wasn't age specific, it wasn't meant to be titillating just trying to illustrate the difference between thinking that you know what you are doing from knowing the mechanics and from actually doing it. And it could have been originally told rather than rewritten as having seen a few line drawings in a text book. But as the story wasn't published EITHER way...

(I sincerely hope that was both illustrative and sufficiently obfuscatory. It's a fine line there. I don't find the forbidden thing the least bit sexy, but there are posted stories about it here.)

My grandson, a high school senior just celebrated that milestone B'day where he can log in here, submit a story about his first time, if his memory is faulty and he recalls it as having happened within the last few weeks, and legally buy marijuana. He could buy a pack of fags until just recently, but now he will have to wait almost 3 years.

His bat-shit school teaches abstinence only, but has a gay and lesbian student group (they are permitted to distribute condoms but the school nurse isnt). The school briefly wouldn't allow the Marine recruiter on campus until a "clarification letter" was sent out (I sincerely hope he is having lots of sex but not smoking either tobacco or mary-jane, and I would hope he doesnt join the Marines based on his father's stories of being in the service.)

So overall this place isn't nuttier than average.

 

[GuessImJamie]

Not Wise wrote:

"You've obscured the actual topics and reasons for rejection so much that I doubt anyone could possibly help you. What are the stories about? What question did the rejection notice ask you?"
First note just said we don't accept stories with (banned topic). I replied that story dint contain (banned topic), if it did please show me where, they said (here). I said (here) isnt (banned topic) but I rewrote and changed it to having read it in text book.

Got new notice along with first one saying that it was underage because and I am paraphrasing to save space. Being nude is sex, watching sex is sex, being taught about sex in high school health class is sex.

Sent changed story back with note saying that forward says everyone in story is 18, that school could have policy of only allowing 18 y/o in health class and noting that IRL my grandsons bat-shit school only gives sex-ed class to seniors (I mean why bother at that point).

Didn't get a response but the next story I submitted had the "we dont accept stories with (forbidden topic) note...

Maybe it's a computer thing? I'm not trying to be offensive. I am trying to play by the rules...

SimonDoom wrote:

"Am I missing something? I don't understand using code terms standing in for the terms you mean to discuss. It makes it impossible to have a substantive response or discussion regarding the original post."

The story stands accused of containing a banned topic, one not permitted to be debated on the boards, I respect that decision by the site owner while still respectfully disagreeing with the contention that the story contained the banned topic.

It was a mistake on my point to explain that there is a difference between two goats eating silage so to speak, and getting into the pen and having dinner with them. I should have sat on my hands and just rewritten the passage. But, then when the passage with the reference was removed, the story came back with the same rejection notice.

 

[SimonDoom]

Not Wise wrote:

"You've obscured the actual topics and reasons for rejection so much that I doubt anyone could possibly help you. What are the stories about? What question did the rejection notice ask you?"
First note just said we don't accept stories with (banned topic). I replied that story dint contain (banned topic), if it did please show me where, they said (here). I said (here) isnt (banned topic) but I rewrote and changed it to having read it in text book.

Got new notice along with first one saying that it was underage because and I am paraphrasing to save space. Being nude is sex, watching sex is sex, being taught about sex in high school health class is sex.

Sent changed story back with note saying that forward says everyone in story is 18, that school could have policy of only allowing 18 y/o in health class and noting that IRL my grandsons bat-shit school only gives sex-ed class to seniors (I mean why bother at that point).

Didn't get a response but the next story I submitted had the "we dont accept stories with (forbidden topic) note...

Maybe it's a computer thing? I'm not trying to be offensive. I am trying to play by the rules...

SimonDoom wrote:

"Am I missing something? I don't understand using code terms standing in for the terms you mean to discuss. It makes it impossible to have a substantive response or discussion regarding the original post."

The story stands accused of containing a banned topic, one not permitted to be debated on the boards, I respect that decision by the site owner while still respectfully disagreeing with the contention that the story contained the banned topic.

It was a mistake on my point to explain that there is a difference between two goats eating silage so to speak, and getting into the pen and having dinner with them. I should have sat on my hands and just rewritten the passage. But, then when the passage with the reference was removed, the story came back with the same rejection notice.

No one can give you meaningful advice when you very generally describe the basis for rejection as "banned topic" but don't say what the topic is or, in at least some form, what you wrote that supposedly falls within the scope of the ban. Most of the discussion in this thread is abstract, and that's not very useful for a writer.

My general advice is that you need to try to look at the content restrictions from the point of view of the site owner, and why those content restrictions exist in the first place. Don't try to make sense of them from the standpoint of what you think is right or logical. If you can do this, then complying with the rules is much less mysterious.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I rewrote and changed it to having read it in text book.

Got new notice along with first one saying that it was underage because and I am paraphrasing to save space. Being nude is sex, watching sex is sex, being taught about sex in high school health class is sex....

Sent changed story back with note saying that forward says everyone in story is 18, that school could have policy of only allowing 18 y/o in health class and noting that IRL my grandsons bat-shit school only gives sex-ed class to seniors (I mean why bother at that point).

Didn't get a response but the next story I submitted had the "we dont accept stories with (forbidden topic) note...

Maybe it's a computer thing? I'm not trying to be offensive. I am trying to play by the rules...

Thanks for providing some context.

Yes, the site rules are very clear that no underage sex is permitted and this passage as you’ve described it violated that rule. Reading about sex and nudity and watching a video about sex is, in the context of erotic literature, a sex act.

You said that you revised so the characters are over eighteen. Perhaps you could review the story and make sure that it’s clear the characters are all eighteen year old high school seniors? Perhaps you could change the classroom setting to a college lecture?

Is it possible you’ve overlooked a separate scene where the characters’ ages are younger or ambiguous?

 

[NotWise]

Not Wise wrote:

"You've obscured the actual topics and reasons for rejection so much that I doubt anyone could possibly help you. What are the stories about? What question did the rejection notice ask you?"
First note just said we don't accept stories with (banned topic). I replied that story dint contain (banned topic), if it did please show me where, they said (here). I said (here) isnt (banned topic) but I rewrote and changed it to having read it in text book.

Got new notice along with first one saying that it was underage because and I am paraphrasing to save space. Being nude is sex, watching sex is sex, being taught about sex in high school health class is sex.

Sent changed story back with note saying that forward says everyone in story is 18, that school could have policy of only allowing 18 y/o in health class and noting that IRL my grandsons bat-shit school only gives sex-ed class to seniors (I mean why bother at that point).

Didn't get a response but the next story I submitted had the "we dont accept stories with (forbidden topic) note...

Maybe it's a computer thing? I'm not trying to be offensive. I am trying to play by the rules...

The site uses the most expansive possible definition for sex, but you seem to have figured that out. Anything that indicates that an underage character is sexually aroused is likely to be sent back to you. Recollections of being aroused before turning eighteen can also result in a story being sent back to you.

The site may also ignore any statement about a character being eighteen or older if the character's behavior or description don't match the stated age.

I read your most recent posted story, and I felt like it was probably very close to the edge on the underage sex rule. Your female character does not seem grown up. There were also problems with grammar or editing that sometimes result in stories being sent back, but the site isn't real consistent that way.

 

[Stillrandy]

Boundaries

There have to be boundaries. If the site were the 'wild wild west' of erotic/porn stuff, there would be all kinds of extreme behavior, stories, pictures, etc.

I am glad for the Literotica 'under 18 rule' for this reason: if the rule were changed (say by popular demand) to, say 'under 17', then there would be a hue and cry to go to 16. And where does it end?

By the way, Literotica is free...let's not screw it up....

 

[Handley_Page]

Am I missing something? I don't understand using code terms standing in for the terms you mean to discuss. It makes it impossible to have a substantive response or discussion regarding the original post.

I'm glad it wasn't just me, then

 

[AlinaX]

One thing's for sure: XYZ is the basis for many three-dimensional plots.

 

[jaF0]

But continuing my analogy I had just submitted a story about Womens Gymnastics...

Eight won't see the light of day.

I knew right there it was the age thing. Again.

Its frustrating.

Yes it is. People ragging endlessly about the age thing is indeed frustrating.

 

[Bramblethorn]

The Federal (US) Govt says that the average "first time" is 16 months earlier than can be told here, differentiated by gender its six months earlier than that for girls and six months later for boys.

So there shouldn't be any or at least not very many stories about virgins here.

That doesn't follow at all.

The average age of first sex (strictly speaking, I suspect that figure's actually for the median) might be in Literotica's banned territory but very few people are perfectly average. Nearly half of people reach 18 before their first sex, and we are at liberty to write about those first times.

By this logic virgin=under age.

That isn't the site's position.

I understand that well intentioned rules can be flouted by the authors statement that "everyone in the story was 18." And those words should not be taken as gospel. But to say a story is "under age" because it deals with two (18 y/o it says in the story) teenagers who thought they knew what they didn't and then figured it out is a teutotomy. It indicts every story in the catagory.

As you say, the "everybody was 18" statements can't always be taken at face value. Some authors have been known to write under-age stories, post them elsewhere as under-age, and then stick on the disclaimer to post them here. I remember one here that apparently slipped past moderation, where the "18-year-old" was consistently described more like a 12-year-old girl. If the disclaimer says they're 18 but the story reads like they're not, then yes, the story might get bounced.

No, that doesn't indict all First Time stories.

Not Wise wrote:

"You've obscured the actual topics and reasons for rejection so much that I doubt anyone could possibly help you. What are the stories about? What question did the rejection notice ask you?"
First note just said we don't accept stories with (banned topic). I replied that story dint contain (banned topic), if it did please show me where, they said (here). I said (here) isnt (banned topic) but I rewrote and changed it to having read it in text book.

This is confusingly expressed, but if I understand correctly, you had a bit where one of the characters was watching goats having sex.

Literotica's general position is that watching or fantasising counts as "sex". A brief mention along the lines of "he'd learned about sex by watching the animals on the farm" might go through, but detailed description might be problematic, especially if characters are acting out what they've seen animals doing.

Sent changed story back with note saying that forward says everyone in story is 18, that school could have policy of only allowing 18 y/o in health class and noting that IRL my grandsons bat-shit school only gives sex-ed class to seniors (I mean why bother at that point).

That does seem like a very misguided school policy!

School stories are tricky - while students can be over-age, most students there are under-age for most if not all of their time. So they're a popular area for authors trying to sneak under-age through, and you can expect the moderator to be sceptical of those "everybody's over 18" disclaimers if the characters don't feel like adults.

 

[Bramblethorn]

One thing's for sure: XYZ is the basis for many three-dimensional plots.

I see what you did there.

 

[GuessImJamie]

See that's the thing.
I wasn't. (Arguing the rule.)
I guess I wasn't clear.
That's why I didn't specify what ABC, XYZ and QRS was in my OP. (I didn't want to discuss a rule that I accept.)

I don't have any issue with any of the site's rules. (I wish they were explained better - but by now I have kind of figured out what they are supposed to be - I am also specifically not criticizing someone skimming a story seeing a word and taking it out of context - my understanding is that one human being vetted everything - wow!)

I admire many of the authors here. Perhaps in time I might be half as good as some of you are. (Or perhaps I will never get any better. In addition to great writers here there are a few awful ones as well.)

Cliffs Notes version:

It's a First Time Story

We are all 18 or older.

We thought we knew what we were doing. We thought we were so grown up because we understood the mechanics. (Problem #1 I said we had feelings before we acted on them, problem #2 I explained how we understood the mechanics) We didn't know what we didn't know, but together we talked it out with each other and we understood that each of us understood a part of the whole. We shared the pieces of the puzzle and put it together. The End.

I said in the intro that everyone was over 18
So awareness of the existence of sex, sexual feelings and learning the mechanics could have been the day before our 19th birthday and "before" could have been 10 months earlier when we were all 18, it could have been 3 days earlier.

Two unicorns having sex is apparently not against site rules. Since a human wrote and submitted that story a human "observed" unicorns having sex, that isnt against site rules.

I'm not saying any rule should be changed, but how is that different? It would be if that was point. But not a one sentence.

"Growning up on the farm we had seen (3 non salacious words) with one another so we were all aware of the mechanics."

Replacing that with. "We had all seen the poorly executed text book line drawings in health class so we knew how it was done." Isn't underage per-se.

The (logical) argument was made that (most) schools teach that before students are 18.

But that argument can be applied to eliminate the entire catagory of first time sex between virgins. In the US it happens well before kids are 18.

I'm not arguing in favor of dropping the age limit.

My grandsons very well respected but batshit school doesnt teach human reproduction until kids are seniors. This site says that "high school senior = 18 year old. It isnt a stretch to specifically write in a story that the district says only 18 year olds,

If the standard is "reality" 50 percent of the posted content doesn't make that cut.

 

[GuessImJamie]

I knew right there it was the age thing. Again.

I accept and don't have an issue with "the age thing." I have an issue with rejection of a story which doesn't specify ages or explicitly states that the people depicted are 18 or over BECAUSE of the logic "in the real world that happens before age 18.So it's underage."

That is a text book example of a circular argument.

 

[GuessImJamie]

There have to be boundaries. If the site were the 'wild wild west' of erotic/porn stuff, there would be all kinds of extreme behavior, stories, pictures, etc.

I am glad for the Literotica 'under 18 rule' for this reason: if the rule were changed (say by popular demand) to, say 'under 17', then there would be a hue and cry to go to 16. And where does it end?

By the way, Literotica is free...let's not screw it up....

The reason I didn't copy what the rejection note said was that I dont disagree with or wish to change this rule.

 

[GuessImJamie]

Bramblethorn wrote:

"This is confusingly expressed, but if I understand correctly, you had a bit where one of the characters was watching (deleted) having sex.

"Literotica's general position is that watching or fantasising counts as "sex". A brief mention along the lines of "he'd learned about sex by watching (deleted) on the farm" might go through, but detailed description might be problematic, especially if characters are acting out what they've seen animals doing."

It wasn't even that specific...

Original - rejected for being B********* (which incidentally SOME stories on this site are TAGGED)

Growning up on the farm we had seen (deleted) having (deleted) with one another so we were all aware of the mechanics."

Rewritten - rejected for being Underage

"We had all seen the poorly executed text book line drawings in health class so we knew how it was done."

 

[AlinaX]

We understood the theory, but none of us had ever put it into practice...

 

[NotWise]

It wasn't even that specific...

Original - rejected for being B********* (which incidentally SOME stories on this site are TAGGED)

Growning up on the farm we had seen (deleted) having (deleted) with one another so we were all aware of the mechanics."

Rewritten - rejected for being Underage

"We had all seen the poorly executed text book line drawings in health class so we knew how it was done."

I just tried a story tag search for bestiality and bestial, and both came up empty.

I'm going to guess that your characters -- regardless of what age you assigned them -- appeared to be underage because of their appearance and/or behavior.

 

[GuessImJamie]

I just tried a story tag search for bestiality and bestial, and both came up empty.

I'm going to guess that your characters -- regardless of what age you assigned them -- appeared to be underage because of their appearance and/or behavior.

I rarely say more about physical appearance in a story than affirming that a woman with smaller than C cups can be sexy (think hard - I bet you can guess why) I would say ignorant and uncertain but unwilling to admidt it more than immature or childish, it was a first time story.

Use google not literotica See also S**** which is likewise against the stated rules, M******** ditto, Female ******* ******** (pulled that one up because Lisa's story about sex play with Ben-gay ointment was rejected as being "that." It is, although it is written from the point of view of her lover helping her deal with the trauma of that in the past - most likely done when she was underage in Africa) and R*** all get hits on google.

 

[SimonDoom]

The rule really isn't that complicated. "Underage sex" means underage people having sex, or thinking about sex, or watching sex, or fantasizing about sex, or watching or observing any behavior that is sexual in nature. It means somebody under 18 watching farm animals having sex or siblings being naked or sexual or whatever. Put yourself in the position of the site owner, not yourself. It's not that difficult.

Purge your story of all material that might fit under this extremely broad problem area, and you will eliminate the problem. People get into trouble when they try to make sense of the rule by the lights of their own logic rather than looking at it in functional terms from the standpoint of the site owner.

If you are having difficulty with a specific problem then you need to say exactly what the specific problem is rather than dancing around the issue in this elliptical fashion with references to "XYZ", etc. Nobody knows what you mean. There are plenty of experienced authors who can give meaningful responses to your frustration but you have to be clear and specific, which you have not been so far. Your refusal to explain what you are talking about because you "agree with the rule" makes no sense to me or, I imagine, anyone else who's trying to help you. I'm just baffled.

 

[NotWise]

Use google not literotica

OK, I did that (with Duck Duck Go instead of Google). I found four stories tagged with "bestiality". They were in EH, non-human and sci-fi categories. I haven't read any of them, but I'll guess the animals in question were fantasy creatures, and sex with fantasy creatures gets a pass.

I found more tagged with "animal." Again, I think we're talking about fantasy creatures, like Lesbian Vampire Cougars.