from a self-described "African-American, lifelong Democratic grass roots activist":

[WriterDom]

from a self-described "African-American, lifelong Democratic grass roots activist":

Mr. Bond, I am appalled at how you viciously attacked President Bush at your ... New Orleans convention. I believe that since Democrats have been in control of the NAACP, it has only been for the advancement of left-winged liberal issues and not the advancement of colored people ... It's amazing that you have become so vehement against the Republican Party that you never state publicly ... how important the Republican Party has been to African-Americans ... The Republican Party was founded in 1854 in order to abolish slavery, and no Republican had ever been a slaveholder since becoming a Republican ...


The Ku Klux Klan was comprised exclusively of Democrats until the mid-1900s.

Almost all prominent African-Americans were Republican until the 1940s.

Slavery was a specifically a repugnant institution of the Democratic Party.

Eugene "Bull" O'Connor (the poster boy of American racism) was a Democrat. The poll tax was a Democratic institution ...

Jim Crow laws were instituted by Democrats.

The Democratic Party only invited blacks to become members by offering "the Negro" government welfare. And just like Uncle Tom, the NAACP and other black leadership have been trying to "protect" that handout ever since ...


The highest cabinet officer is an African-American Republican -- Secretary of State Colin Powell. The national security policy of the United States is under the direction of an African-American woman who is Republican. When have the Democrats ever entrusted this much power and authority to African-Americans? An irony of recent history is that Republicans supported the appointment of Thurgood Marshall for U.S. Solicitor General and for Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, but Democrats voted against Clarence Thomas' nomination and demonize him to this day …


The NAACP should be supportive of the advancement of colored people, period -- not just colored Democrat people. Until the NAACP lives up to its name, others and I will cease to be continued supporters of yours.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/elder1.asp

 

[rambling man]

"African-American" is a very inaccurate term to use to describe blacks. It was invented by Jesse Jackson and completely ignores the large segment of North Africans of Arab descent, Afrikaaners who may have moved here, and others.

A few years back a federal court upheld a white man whose parents hailed from Kenya. He won an "African-American" scholarship to Georgetown, and he was, technically "African-American"

NAACP leaders continually stoke fires and perpetuate the myth that whites in this country are always trying to devise ways to oppress blacks. I believe some discrimination exists, but no more so than against , the old, the overweight, those with southern accents, blonde haired people, whichever group irritates certain other groups of people. They do this to perpetuate their own power positions because they have no other claimn to leadership. Instead of telling people to work hard in school, work hard at your job, and perhaps you will succeed, it's all "blame whitey." Here's a fact, lots of white folks don't always get what they want either, and they also look for scapegoats.

Most whites are basically apathetic to minorities and even this is used by their leaders to try and piss them off. Apathy is good because we do not oppress, nor do we want to interfere in their lives to "try and make it better."

Finally, why is the NAACP so wrapped up in slavery that ended in the US almost 140 years ago? If the NAACP really cared about the issue of slavery, they would focus their efforts on black slavery where it exists now...Why isn't Jesse Jackson in the Sudan???

 

[Guest]

I have a friend from South Africa of Dutch lineage who bristles everytime I call him an African American.

The NAAAAP or NQuadAP is an ananchronism which needs to go the way of the clan along with Black, I mean African Amrican Miss America (can she be Arabic?), Black frats and sororities, I mean African American frats and sororities, and segregated college graduations which are an absolute slap in the face towards those who worked so hard to have an integrated society.

It has become a political movement of the left. In fact, I would charge that the black community has become the brownshirts of the Democratic party. The N4AP should consider what happened during the night of long knives.

IMHO - from a rural, redneck, rascist, redskin...

 

[FantasticJones]

Re: from a self-described "African-American, lifelong Democratic grass roots activist":

Mr. Bond, I am appalled at how you viciously attacked President Bush at your ... New Orleans convention. I believe that since Democrats have been in control of the NAACP, it has only been for the advancement of left-winged liberal issues and not the advancement of colored people ... It's amazing that you have become so vehement against the Republican Party that you never state publicly ... how important the Republican Party has been to African-Americans ... The Republican Party was founded in 1854 in order to abolish slavery, and no Republican had ever been a slaveholder since becoming a Republican ...


The Ku Klux Klan was comprised exclusively of Democrats until the mid-1900s.

Almost all prominent African-Americans were Republican until the 1940s.

Slavery was a specifically a repugnant institution of the Democratic Party.

Eugene "Bull" O'Connor (the poster boy of American racism) was a Democrat. The poll tax was a Democratic institution ...

Jim Crow laws were instituted by Democrats.

The Democratic Party only invited blacks to become members by offering "the Negro" government welfare. And just like Uncle Tom, the NAACP and other black leadership have been trying to "protect" that handout ever since ...


The highest cabinet officer is an African-American Republican -- Secretary of State Colin Powell. The national security policy of the United States is under the direction of an African-American woman who is Republican. When have the Democrats ever entrusted this much power and authority to African-Americans? An irony of recent history is that Republicans supported the appointment of Thurgood Marshall for U.S. Solicitor General and for Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, but Democrats voted against Clarence Thomas' nomination and demonize him to this day …


The NAACP should be supportive of the advancement of colored people, period -- not just colored Democrat people. Until the NAACP lives up to its name, others and I will cease to be continued supporters of yours.

Some well made points Mr. WriterDom but it must be said that I disagree with what seems to be a major point this fellow is trying to make. While the past is interesting(Somewhere near the turn of the century the Repubs and Dems switched from left to right) it is hardly relevant that the turn of the century Klan was made up of Democrats.

It reminds me of something that Habs fans say in the great Leafs vs. Habs debate. Whenever you bring up how much better the Leafs are then the Habs now you'll inevitably get a lesson on the Pocket Rocket and the Roadrunner and how Dryden took them to the Cup in his rookie year and........Well, you get the point.

My point is that the fact that Republicans were the better party for African Americans in the past is only relevant in the fact that it highlights that they sure aren't now.

To personalize the issue a bit let me veer off course for a bit. There was a book a while back that argued that Lincoln was a homosexual. Hypothetically if it were true it would mean that the highest serving Gay man in american history would've been Republican. Would that mean, somehow, that it must stand to reason that I should be a supporter of the Republicans policy on my ilk now simply because they let a Fancy boy lead them in the past, regardless of the rampant Homophobia they espouse today????

 

[sexy-girl]

i agree 100% FantasticJones and what is surprising is that they are bring up these VERY old points to try to draw the black vote

cant they demostrate good reasons for black people to vote for them with policys and views from present day

i dont know very much about their black policys and opinions the black community have of the republican party ... but i dont agree with any party in the UK or USA that uses history to detract from present day ... and also just because you have a black man or homosexual person or a woman in your party means nothing ... only time it means something is when you have NONE



i am not saying which party is better for the black community or homosexual or whatever im just commenting on the article so be nice to me

 

[sexy-girl]

i would like to quickly comment though on racism and how some people dismiss it because most whites are apperently tolerent and show apathy to minorites

how many people i wonder are racist and show prejudice ... 1 in 50 maybe even if its 1 in 100 ... a black person will probably face some kind of prejudice once a week maybe more

im a lesbain female and i face prejudice it maybe from a minority of people but its still there and shouldnt be dismissed

sometimes black people or mnoritys do deserve to have some special treatment because of the negetive treatment a section of the population shows towards them

 

[FantasticJones]

i agree 100% FantasticJones and what is surprising is that they are bring up these VERY old points to try to draw the black vote

cant they demostrate good reasons for black people to vote for them with policys and views from present day

i dont know very much about their black policys and opinions the black community have of the republican party ... but i dont agree with any party in the UK or USA that uses history to detract from present day ... and also just because you have a black man or homosexual person or a woman in your party means nothing ... only time it means something is when you have NONE



i am not saying which party is better for the black community or homosexual or whatever im just commenting on the article so be nice to me

I actually don't even think it would matter that much if a particular party had no representation of a particular group. what matters to me, far more than having a token schlub in some office, is having a party have a platform that resonates with me and represents me and is looking out for my rights as a citizen.

 

[Guest]

I am just glad that now there is a word I can use in place of the "N" word since "Buckwheat" has been implicitly endorsed by the N4AP.

 

[rambling man]

No one has any right to expect any kind of special treatment due to their status as a black, homosexual, or any other minority...this is not only true because it makes sense, it is also the law....The 14th Amendment calls for "equal protection under the law" no more, no less.

The sad fact is that everyone at some point in their life will face discrimination based upon some characteristic they cannot help. That is the real world, where life is not fair. And, it is not any more right for blacks to get jobs just because of their skin color than it is to deny them a job for the same reasons. Black political machines in cities across the country advance blacks over whites for the simple reason of skin color and no one has ever called them to the carpet for discrimination.

As a matter of fact, in many cities, blacks are not minorities anymore. Should preferential practices continue even if blacks are the majority?

Discrimination cuts in every way imaginable

 

[sexy-girl]

yes exactly equal rights ... so if 100,000 black people are denied work unfairly for racist reasons ... then to EQUAL things up they are given jobs elsewhere ... a black person is never employed if he is uncapble of doing the work he never gets a job merely because he is black and faces more disadvatage for being black when seeking employment then any advantage he/she will receive ... black people do not get an easy ride ... far from it infact

 

[floridaguy64]

To quote history..............

is a useful tool in life if.............................

You can use the lessons of the mistakes of others...............and not repeat those same mistakes.



This country was founded by our forefathers because of Taxation without representation

(kind of like it is today.............representation means that the people should have a voice in all matters concerning any form of taxation........... when a state or county increases sales taxes..........we have a referendum vote---------- when the federal government does it, they just say "screw em, we'll just tell em that the people can't survive without giving us more money to spend on them)


As for whether or not you have to be a Democrat or a Republican to be a racist / bigot............... that's bullshit ! All of that comes from within your own upbringing...... and the mistakes in history that a person ignorantly perpetuates through self pity.

I have a sister that is a lesbian............. so what? That's her choice and if she is happy, GREAT !!!!!!! More power to her!

I also have a sister that choses to love black men over white men. She has a darling daughter that is half white and half black..... so what? Again, that's her choice to make, and as long as she is happy, GREAT !!!!!!!! I love both my sisters and niece equally and very much for that matter. Their choices in life are not the ones that I chose to make, but hey....... they have GOD given rights to a peaceful and happy life.


Face it.................. we are who we are.....................and who, other than GOD.............or what other name you choose to refer to a higher power as............ HAS THE RIGHT TO SIT IN JUDGEMENT AGAINST ANY OTHER FELLOW HUMAN BEING ANYWAY !

 

[Guest]

Yes, like the African American woman Gilchrist in Oklahoma who was promoted to her position as a forensics expert as a result of Affermative Action. Her sheer gross negligence sent people to thier deaths and long prison stretches. Ford Motor company and Firestone recently admitted that they had much the same problem in upper management causing loss of market share, and deaths.

 

[rambling man]

Affirmative action demeans those whom it supposedly helps. It send the message that the beneficiary is not good enough to get the job on his own. It also perpetuates a myth that the beneficiary is entitled to something.

Reality is that life is tough for at least 90% of us. You take you knocks, sometimes you get something good, sometimes life is unfair. Discrimination is much much less of a factor than it used to be. Like I said earlier there are many many different kinds, too.

Why should someone be entitled to a job because they are black? Why is this less wrong than the other way around? The way I see it, Martin Luther King and his friends fought for equality, not special favors.

 

[Guest]

That entire post comes across like one of those "look, I'm not racist, I have a black friend." statements that only racists need to make. Just because George W. Bush has the support of 1% of blacks doesn't mean anything. I'm sure you could find some Jews who kissed hitlers ass too. So what.

It's ironic that Republicans would try to use the events of the 1800's to excuse their current racist attitudes, but when anyone brings up George W. Bush's boozing, coke snorting, insider trading, abortion giving, lying, election stealing, all the same nuts start yelling about how that's in the past and we need to forget about it and move forward.

And why is it that Rush fans constantly scream about Gays wanting special privelages? Is wanting the right to get married a special privelige or is that just equal rights?

The current right wing in this country is so racist and sexist and intolerant that they will be their own undoing. You will see minorities vote in 2004 like you have never seen before. All the white male Fox News loving rush limbaugh worshippers can scream as loud as they want about taking this country back from the darkies, but the truth is that America is not going backwards.

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by FantasticJones
My point is that the fact that Republicans were the better party for African Americans in the past is only relevant in the fact that it highlights that they sure aren't now.

It's a matter of perspective and what your agenda is. Speak to Ward Connerly, James Golden or Walter E. Williams and ask their opinion. Somehow, I think they'll differ with you presumption.

Originally posted by FantasticJones
To personalize the issue a bit let me veer off course for a bit. There was a book a while back that argued that Lincoln was a homosexual. Hypothetically if it were true it would mean that the highest serving Gay man in american history would've been Republican. Would that mean, somehow, that it must stand to reason that I should be a supporter of the Republicans policy on my ilk now simply because they let a Fancy boy lead them in the past, regardless of the rampant Homophobia they espouse today????

And I admire you ability to misinterpret and distort. Did you graduate from the Daschle, Gephardt, Carville, Clinton school of slander? I'm really curious where you see homophobia espoused. It's the proponents of the Liberal Left who are so publicly conscious of every little physical and psychological trait of their constituency, not the Conservatives Right.

Originally posted by sexy-girl
sometimes black people or mnoritys do deserve to have some special treatment because of the negetive treatment a section of the population shows towards them

So anyone who has suffered negative treatment from a section of the population deserves special treatment. Sounds really nice. But if you think about it from a reasoned perspective, that has happened to virtually everyone at some time or another. So by your rationale, everyone deserves special treatment.

I am the smallest minority that exists and my rights are not only ignored but violated on a daily basis. But since the government is the violator, to whom do I turn for redress of grievance?

Originally posted by FantasticJones
I actually don't even think it would matter that much if a particular party had no representation of a particular group. what matters to me, far more than having a token schlub in some office, is having a party have a platform that resonates with me and represents me and is looking out for my rights as a citizen.

The only political party in America today interested in protecting rights is the Libertarian Party. And I'll go WAY OUT on a limb here and bet you're NOT a member of it and wouldn't vote for it's candidates. And when you get right down to principle, you won't specifically because they advocate and support individual rights and freedoms, not some variety of collectivist totalitarian government.

Originally posted by sexy-girl
yes exactly equal rights ...

I'm curious as to exactly what your concept of rights includes. Can you give me a concise, rational, consistent, non-contradictory statement of rights? And keep it in 50 words or less (how about 20 or less). Yes, it's really that simple but the ramifications so complex and expansive.

Originally posted by floridaguy64
Face it.................. we are who we are.....................and who, other than GOD.............or what other name you choose to refer to a higher power as............ HAS THE RIGHT TO SIT IN JUDGEMENT AGAINST ANY OTHER FELLOW HUMAN BEING ANYWAY !

I make those judgements every day. Based on the actions and advocacies of people, I judge their intellect, their character, their integrity, etc. To not make judgements is to accept all as equal peers. It effectively equates Hillary or Bill Clinton with Mother Teresa, equates me to Pope John Paul, etc.

Overall, the policies and governing manner offered by Republicans/Conservatives is less destructive than those promoted by the Democratic Party/Liberal Left. Both have ventured beyond the Constitutional bounds of their authority and seem totally indifferent to that fact. And so long as they continue to behave so flagrantly in violation of the fundamental law of the land, they have no moral basis for their mutual criticism.

The Republicans/Conservatives garner a bit more respect from me because when you look at the facts, Republicans are more likely to be constrained by some degree of truth, honor and honesty that are Democrats/Liberals. The latter have demonstrated repeatedly that they will say anything no matter how egregious the lie to retain their political power.

As a current example, about 3 years ago, Richard Gephardt was saying the Social Security system is in dire straits and must be fixed to avert a near term disaster. Now that the Republicans are in power in the White House and are offering a program to fix it, he's now saying that there is no problem.

His only motive is to keep social security as a campaign issue and thus he cannot allow the Republicans to fix the problem he identified years ago because it takes away a Democrat campaign issue, and for his political future, that's the only acceptable option.

 

[miles]

Sexy Girl

One of us is confused.

In one post you say minorities deserve equal rights, then in another that they deserve special treatment.

 

[sexy-girl]

equal rites in less them 20 words hmmm


well for me its : to be judged and treated as a individual instead of by my race sexuality gender age etc too not be PRE judged



as many people in this thread have pointed out everyone is discrimated against and judged ... but theres a huge difference when your prejudged ... people have said that blacks get jobs just because there black this is so untrue ... for a black person its much harder for them to choose and get the job they would like ... equal rites do not exist at the moment ... people have been discrimated against and prejudged in many work places ... so whats wrong with making them even it up to make it equal now ... there still not going to give jobs to people who arent capable or dont have excellant qualifications for the job

like the African American woman Gilchrist in Oklahoma who was promoted to her position as a forensics expert as a result of Affermative Action. Her sheer gross negligence sent people to thier deaths and long prison stretches

i think its very low to use that as an arguement like theres never been a white person whos caused death through sheer gross negligence who was hired because a man didnt want to employ a black man who might of been better qualified

alot of people say its forcing to hire black people who they wouldnt otherwise because they are less qualified but alot of the time its not that ... its forcing companys to hire a black person who is the BEST qualified but might of been turned down because of the colour of her/his skin


im gay and i dont want any special treatment i just would like to beable to one day marry my girlfriend to beable to one day have a child perhaps (adoption or artifically) for my girlfriend to beable to work as a teacher if she wants

 

[FantasticJones]

It's a matter of perspective and what your agenda is. Speak to Ward Connerly, James Golden or Walter E. Williams and ask their opinion. Somehow, I think they'll differ with you presumption.


And I admire you ability to misinterpret and distort. Did you graduate from the Daschle, Gephardt, Carville, Clinton school of slander? I'm really curious where you see homophobia espoused. It's the proponents of the Liberal Left who are so publicly conscious of every little physical and psychological trait of their constituency, not the Conservatives Right.


So anyone who has suffered negative treatment from a section of the population deserves special treatment. Sounds really nice. But if you think about it from a reasoned perspective, that has happened to virtually everyone at some time or another. So by your rationale, everyone deserves special treatment.

I am the smallest minority that exists and my rights are not only ignored but violated on a daily basis. But since the government is the violator, to whom do I turn for redress of grievance?


The only political party in America today interested in protecting rights is the Libertarian Party. And I'll go WAY OUT on a limb here and bet you're NOT a member of it and wouldn't vote for it's candidates. And when you get right down to principle, you won't specifically because they advocate and support individual rights and freedoms, not some variety of collectivist totalitarian government.

Gosh Mr. Unclebill it sure is impressive when someone can write a whole lot and not say anything of substance or intelligence. Firstly as to the Black Republican issue I would say that I've always liked going with the 90% majority over the 10% wealthy minority. Much like the gay people who support the alliance or the republicans they have an opinion directly contrary to the one that the majority of their special interest groups. They are, to a degree(And here I mainly speak of gay right wingers.) really, really blind and ignorant people.

Where do I see homophobia in the Republican party? Where do you not see it? Trent Lott, Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer, Pat Robertson, Ronald Reagan. The president, while governor, signed a law into effect in Texas that specifically restricts homosexual adoption. They are officially opposed to gay marriage(Which, I would understand if it was based on the libertarian notion of not subsidizing Marriage. The Repubs, last I checked, are big on marriage between two happy straight folk)

I know I'm new here and as such it may not be widely known but I can honestly say that I would have a significant, serious problem with voting for the Libertarian party. I think I could even be charged with voter fraud. Or can a Canadian vote in your elections now? As to the support of their policies I'm on a similar page with them on certain things. The problem with their platform is that it is bred out of an ignorance of the real world. I would agree that a totally free, unemcumbered style of living that is represented by a government that only provides the absolute fiscal and bureaucratic necessities is a nice idea but one whose time is not here because of the inherent bigotry and discrimination in the world that is here and has to be dealt with now. It's nice to sit in ones Ivory Towers and say "Enough of this petty squabbling about homophobia and racism and years of abuse. Starting now, everybody is equal. Now shut up and pay your taxes." Some of us prefer to live in the real world. Try it sometime. We've got nice bagels.

 

[floridaguy64]

Nice bagels................. I like that! LOL

I'm Scotts / Irish................

My fraternal Grand parents arrived here as teenagers in 1905..... only to be ostricized for being Irish..........no work, slum housing at best...................

My Maternal Grands came here from Scottland in the mid 1800's, amassed a huge wealth by integrity and hard work.......... the government stripped them of 99.5% of their wealth during the first year of the great depression because they couldn't pay their property taxes on time.........................

Am I bitter at Uncle Sam for being exactly opposite of what this country's founding fathers intended it to be?........... You're damned right I am !!!!!!!!

Am I bitter at society as a whole for the long struggle my family endured in trying to make their American Dream a reality? Of course not!

We become what we are because of individual character, good judgement, and honest values. Every single action in life has a consequence attached to it (ponder that if you will).

Am I rich? Not even close!

Do I pay taxes?............... try 55% of every penny I earn, taken from me litterally at gunpoint (self employed by choice).............

Have I ever asked for preferential treatment in any aspect of life, a handout, or for that matter, a hand up? Well, from my family I am sure I have.............. from the US Govt..............no way in hell ! I have earned the right to free services provided by the Veterans Admin.........healthcare, the GI loan program, a free driver's license even............do I utilize them............A RESOUNDING HELL NO!!!!!!!............ someone has to pay for those services (yeah, everyone that pays taxes......... I'd just as soon be paying less taxes and be totally responsible for me and my family....... the heall with income redistribution, is what I say!)

Semper Fi !!!!! to all, like me that have served this country with honor. Stand tall and proud, even if your country cares not about you in the least................know that your fellow vets do!



Live life to it's fullest measure!............Bartender!, Another round for all please?!

 

[miles]

The problem with their platform is that it is bred out of an ignorance of the real world.

Please give us some specifics. I'd like to know which parts of the platform you agree and disagree with, and especially how it relates to the above statement. Facts, please.

Below is the party's URL. I strongly recommend you read it before your foot finds its way into your mouth.


http://libertarian.org/

 

[Guest]

If 90% of the poorest all the lemmings went over the cliff, Fantastic would obviously go with them because peer pressure is much more important than individual thought.

 

[shadowsource]

affirmative

White people wake up every day and thank god they're not black - until they get turned down for something, and then they blame blacks for it.

The GOP started losing black voters in the 1930s, when Eleanor Roosevelt started fighting for equality from within the White House. The Republicans lost the rest of their black support in the 50s when they opposed school desegregation. Yes, Strom Thurmond was a DEMOCRAT when he ran for president on a racist ticket in 1948, but the Democrats stood up to him and he became a REPUBLICAN in 1964, a sort of thank you to Barry Goldwater for opposing the Civil Rights Act. Since then, the best the GOP came up with for blacks was "benign neglect," Nixon's policy, shaped by the Democrat Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who's now into wrecking Social Security for Bush....

So complicated, isn't it? Of course, the Dems take black voters for granted. And just when black voters begin to think about leaving the Democrats, the GOP sticks a big thumb in their eye! Like disenfranchising thousands of them in Florida with rigged "felon" voter lists they purchased from their own operatives. So they stay Democrats, but it's not out of stupidity - it's DESPERATION!

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by FantasticJones
Gosh Mr. Unclebill it sure is impressive when someone can write a whole lot and not say anything of substance or intelligence. Firstly as to the Black Republican issue I would say that I've always liked going with the 90% majority over the 10% wealthy minority. Much like the gay people who support the alliance or the republicans they have an opinion directly contrary to the one that the majority of their special interest groups. They are, to a degree(And here I mainly speak of gay right wingers.) really, really blind and ignorant people.

Thanks for the compliment. So you ascribe to the idea that might makes right. That at least identifies your position a bit better. Not too many years ago it was quite commonly known that the world was flat and earth was the center of the universe except for a few really blind and ignorant heretics like Galileo, Copernicus, et al.

Originally posted by FantasticJones
Where do I see homophobia in the Republican party? Where do you not see it? Trent Lott, Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer, Pat Robertson, Ronald Reagan. The president, while governor, signed a law into effect in Texas that specifically restricts homosexual adoption. They are officially opposed to gay marriage(Which, I would understand if it was based on the libertarian notion of not subsidizing Marriage. The Repubs, last I checked, are big on marriage between two happy straight folk)

You can interpret people's views as you wish. That doesn't make it so. True perception of the Conservative concept of marriage based on their religious beliefs. I've expressed my view of such on other threads and won't repeat the tome her in deference to those who have read it at least once. Suffice it to say marriage is not the province of government.

Originally posted by FantasticJones
I know I'm new here and as such it may not be widely known but I can honestly say that I would have a significant, serious problem with voting for the Libertarian party. I think I could even be charged with voter fraud. Or can a Canadian vote in your elections now?

First, you didn't give a location and your post sounded very typical of America's Liberal Left. But if you put your mind to it, I'm sure you could find a way to vote in our elections.

Originally posted by FantasticJones
As to the support of their policies I'm on a similar page with them on certain things. The problem with their platform is that it is bred out of an ignorance of the real world. I would agree that a totally free, unemcumbered style of living that is represented by a government that only provides the absolute fiscal and bureaucratic necessities is a nice idea but one whose time is not here because of the inherent bigotry and discrimination in the world that is here and has to be dealt with now.

Actually, it is more from a recognition of reality and understanding the no societal organization will achieve the Utopia that so many politicians are determined to inflict on the world at any cost. Rather, they understand that in a free society where men are constrained by their own limitations rather than artificial ones imposed by government, the utopian ideal, while still a fantasy, can come closer to realization because one man cannot enslave another. And in a free society, the advances produced by individuals free to pursue their own fortunes advance the standard of living of everyone in that society.

That is why America has come to lead the world in virtually every field of endeavor. We are the most medically advanced, technically advanced, wealthiest, best fed, best housed, etc. And among industrial nations, our pollution with respect to productivity is, if not the lowest, one of the lowest 2 or 3. And the reasonably intelligent among us look at these accomplishments with pride.

The poorest in America are leagues ahead of the poor in other parts of the world. If I remember one of the more recent statements of the poor in America, they only have one car, two TV's, one microwave, etc. That's really roughing it. Just ask the wealthy businessman in Iran, Iraq, on the African continent, China and a long list of other places around the world.

Yet it is the collectivists who deride America for selfishness, greed and exploitation who envy, hate and wish for the destruction of our way of life who get the most public recognition. And sadly numbered among these are many of our own political leaders like Algore, the Clintons, Daschle, Gephardt, Kennedy, etc. And note they are ALL career politicians; they've never had to earn a living for themselves. They see themselves as above such petty constraints. Rather, they are to be supported by the spoils stolen from those who did earn them.

Bigotry is an ever-present aberration. I doubt it will ever be eradicated because in human nature, varied as it is, there will always be those who seek to blame others for their shortcomings and in such pursuits, anything is fair game.

And I'm very curious as to how you would proposed to deal with the inherent bigotry and discrimination in the world that is here and has to be dealt with now. What is the magic pill you offer to end it?

How familiar are you with the fundamentals of America's Federal government design? What are the absolute fiscal and bureaucratic necessities to which you refer? In your perception, what is the purpose of government in a free society?

Originally posted by FantasticJones
It's nice to sit in ones Ivory Towers and say "Enough of this petty squabbling about homophobia and racism and years of abuse. Starting now, everybody is equal. Now shut up and pay your taxes." Some of us prefer to live in the real world. Try it sometime. We've got nice bagels.

I hardly live in an ivory tower. I have worked hard for what I have achieved in life. I have had an ever increasing share of my earnings stolen by some bureaucrat for distribution to those who have not earned it. But somehow, they, having not worked for it, are more entitled to have that which I have earned than I. This is not from the American government that was designed and set in place 200+ years ago. Rather, this is more from the Communist Manifesto which is the antithesis of freedom and the American idea of a society in which freedom is protected, a first in history.

In a recent Affirmative Action thread, I posted at length (a few might say ad nauseum) a few times regarding bigotry, prejudice and such evils. But that's the price to be paid for living in freedom. You must tolerate stupidity and moral evil so long as it does not cross the line of criminal behavior.

Originally posted by shadowsource
White people wake up every day and thank god they're not black - until they get turned down for something, and then they blame blacks for it.

Wow! I'm impressed. My first encounter with a genuine psychic. Someone who can know what others think! Amazing. Have the thought police recruited you yet?

Originally posted by shadowsource
The GOP started losing black voters in the 1930s, when Eleanor Roosevelt started fighting for equality from within the White House. The Republicans lost the rest of their black support in the 50s when they opposed school desegregation. Yes, Strom Thurmond was a DEMOCRAT when he ran for president on a racist ticket in 1948, but the Democrats stood up to him and he became a REPUBLICAN in 1964, a sort of thank you to Barry Goldwater for opposing the Civil Rights Act. Since then, the best the GOP came up with for blacks was "benign neglect," Nixon's policy, shaped by the Democrat Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who's now into wrecking Social Security for Bush....

So complicated, isn't it? Of course, the Dems take black voters for granted. And just when black voters begin to think about leaving the Democrats, the GOP sticks a big thumb in their eye! Like disenfranchising thousands of them in Florida with rigged "felon" voter lists they purchased from their own operatives. So they stay Democrats, but it's not out of stupidity - it's DESPERATION!

Yup. Complex alright. Find an old thread about civil rights on the BB. There's some interesting information there that conflicts with your declaration here. The fact is, more Republicans supported Civil Rights than did Democrats. Despite holding the majority in BOTH houses of Congress, the Democrats could not get enough votes to pass the Civil Rights Act within their party. But, please, never let fact get in the way of your opinion.

I'm as impressed as I am baffled by the term benign neglect!

And while you're at it, can you explain how Moynihan is wrecking Socialist Security? And how did Bush recruit a Democrat icon to achieve this marvelous task for him? Are you implying that a Democrat's soul is for sale to the highest bidder? And if that's your implication, please explain why anyone but a fool would ally or align themselves with such a political party?

You're good at repeating the Democrats' smear lines but where's the evidence that there were all these disenfranchised voters? Even with all the press recounts in Florida, even the liberal elitists of the media couldn't come up with a count making Algore the winner. Yet, for all the fury of their declarations of how Bush stole the election, now that they have had their own chance to count the ballots, are they making the same degree of proclamations regarding the outcome? Actually, their silence is deafening. Which in itself speaks volumes about the character of these people, doesn't it? But, I forget, according to the Democrats/Liberals/Left, character doesn't matter, does it?

And from all accounts, most of Florida's precincts were controlled by Democrats. Even with control of the precincts, they couldn't get enough votes to pull the Algore rabbit out of the hat much as they tried.

The whole Florida voter issue was trumped up by the Democrats as a media blitz to steal the election and, failing that, to delegitimize Bush's win. Go back and review some of the material posted and referenced here during the post election, pre-inauguration period.

As to blacks aligning themselves with Democrats, it's not as much desperation as it is blindly following the Jesse Jacksons, Al Sharptons, et all who purport themselves to be the black leadership. It's following these frauds, hypocrites and racist bigots that has them aligned with Democrats. Why do they reject the men from their ranks who have achieved the American dream as a result of their own efforts, accomplishments and hard work and offer a positive role model? Instead they choose to follow the thugs who tell them they can't succeed on their own. That they are incompetent to succeed without help from someone else and are dependent on the crumbs their noble leaders brush from their lapels. For this is the elitist, condescending message these self-appointed leaders send. But I'm quite baffled as to why it is received so cheerfully by those to whom it is so insulting and demeaning.

 

[Markov Cain]

Yes and note the amount of time in which Republicans had no power whatsoever and the Democrats failed to fix anything (as also pointed out prior, Uncle Bill is thourough [sp?] and disciplined in his thoughts and arguments, I have always admired his consistency), in fact raided most programs whenever it suited them. just think what would have happened if theat money had actually gone into a trust fund and invested in America and the world. But now, look how the Democrats go after a commision that was 50-50 and headed by one of the true stars and great thinkers of thier party.

Black America should take the examples of Indian America, Hispanic America, Chinese America, Irish America and get on with the promise of America and drop thier rascist view of the world. We need more Walter E. William's in this world. More people who have taken the American Eagle by the tail, tamed it, and prospered from it.

I came from the trailer park, a half-breed, and now I am a "millionaire" asset-wise with two homes, multiple vehicles, and no debt. Anyone who stops making excuses and starts making an effort can make it in America.

Why do you think so many are willing to die just to try and get here?

 

[rambling man]

Part of my family immigrated here from Italy in the early 1900s. They came from Italy, bitterly poor, nothing but the shirts on their backs. They moved into an isolated and mountainous area saturated with anti-Catholic feelings where the Klan never died and crosses still burned regularly. The children of the "natives" as my family called them, cursed and beat them as they went to school.

They started out on the bottom, working on a road crew but eventually raised enough money to open a general store. By working their store and farming, they became wealthy by local standards, which only aroused local resentment and jealousy further.

The father sent each of his kids to college. They became schoolteachers, one even became the all-time winningnest football coach in another state's history. None became milionaires, but all found a comfortable place in the American way of life.

They had to endure discrimination, harassment, jealousy, taunts for being Italian and Catholic but they persevered, made no excuses, and succeeded. That's because their parents accepted no excuses, didn't blame the local population descended from Scots-Irish and German settlers from one or two centuries before.

But they all did well, no one in their family lives in poverty, instead they all aspire to do better.

What have we learned here? If you think you are a victim, you stay a victim. If you put your head up and work hard no matter what, you will do well.