Free Speech on the Ropes in England

[Zeb_Carter]

A 14-year-old girl, Codie Stott, was assigned to a six-student group to receive tutoring in science at the Harrop Fold High School. The girl had a problem with the group because all of the other five students were Asian and only one of them spoke English. Stott told the teacher "I'm not being funny, but can i change groups because I can't understand them." The teacher then told her that she was a racist and was going to get "done" by the police. She was put in isolation at the school for the rest of the day.

The teacher filed a complaint with the police officer assigned to the school. More than a week later Codie Stott was taken to the police station and placed under arrest. Her fingerprints were taken, as was a mug shot.

According to this article in the Daily Mail, Codie was then questioned of (now get this!) committing a section five racial public order offense. She was placed in a bare cell for three-and-one-half hours. Finally she was released without any charges being brought ... but the matter is still under investigation.

Yes .. it is getting this bad. The left has unleashed the monster of political correctness on our society, and every day we learn of a new absurdity. Sure, this story is about Great Britain, but how long before this type of nonsense reaches our own schools? How long hell!! It's already here! Just look at some of the so-called "free speech" codes that exist on many college and university campuses across the nation.

You can't say anything about it, though. To dare to speak up would, of course, make you a racist right along with Codie Stott!

 

[Mimi_Marquez]

ridiculous. I'd have spoken up too.

 

[Pure]

here's the story that Zeb referenced. sorry i missed the reference.

Schoolgirl arrested for refusing to study with non-English pupils

Last updated at 10:27am on 13th October 2006


NEWS HOMEPAGE

A teenage schoolgirl was arrested by police for racism after refusing to sit with a group of Asian students because some of them did not speak English.

Codie Stott's family claim she was forced to spend three-and-a-half hours in a police cell after she was reported by her teachers.

The 14-year-old - who was released without charge - said it had been a simple matter of commonsense and accused the school and police of an over-the-top reaction.

The incident happened in the same local education authority where a ten-year-old boy was prosecuted earlier this year for calling a schoolfriend racist names in the playground, a move branded by a judge "political correctness gone mad."

Codie was attending a GCSE science class at Harrop Fold High School in Worsley, Greater Manchester, when the incident happened.

The teenager had not been in school the day before due to a hospital appointment and had missed the start of a project, so the teacher allocated her a group to sit with.

"She said I had to sit there with five Asian pupils," said Codie yesterday.

"Only one could speak English, so she had to tell that one what to do so she could explain in their language. Then she sat me with them and said 'Discuss'."

According to Codie, the five - four boys and a girl - then began talking in a language she didn't understand, thought to be Urdu, so she went to speak to the teacher.

"I said 'I'm not being funny, but can I change groups because I can't understand them?' But she started shouting and screaming, saying 'It's racist, you're going to get done by the police'."

Codie said she went outside to calm down where another teacher found her and, after speaking to her class teacher, put her in isolation for the rest of the day.

A complaint was made to a police officer based full-time at the school, and more than a week after the incident on September 26 she was taken to Swinton police station and placed under arrest.

"They told me to take my laces out of my shoes and remove my jewellery, and I had my fingerprints and photograph taken," said Codie. "It was awful."

After questioning on suspicion of committing a section five racial public order offence, her mother Nicola says she was placed in a bare cell for three-and-a-half hours then released without charge.

She only returned to lessons this week and has been put in a different science class.

Yesterday Miss Stott, 37, a cleaner, said: "Codie was not being racist." "The reaction from the school and police is totally over the top and I am furious my daughter had to go through this trauma when all she was saying was common sense. "

"She'd have been better off not saying anything and getting into trouble for not being able to do the work."

Miss Stott, who is separated from Codie and her 18-year-old brother Ashley's father, lives with her partner Keith Seanor, a 36-year-old cable layer, in Walkden.

School insiders acknowledge that at least three of the students Codie refused to sit with had recently arrived in this country and spoke little English.

But they say her comments afterwards raised further concerns, for example allegedly referring to the students as "blacks" - something she denied yesterday.

The school is now investigating exactly what happened before deciding what action - if any - to take against Codie.

Headteacher Dr Antony Edkins said: "An allegation of a serious nature was made concerning a racially motivated remark by one student towards a group of Asian students new to the school and new to the country."

"We aim to ensure a caring and tolerant attitude towards people and pupils of all ethnic backgrounds and will not stand for racism in any form."

Fewer than two per cent of pupils at Harrop Fold come from an ethnic minority.

It had the worst GCSE results in the entire Salford LEA last year with just 15 per cent of pupils achieving five good passes including English and maths, a third of the national average.

Since being placed in special measures, Ofsted inspectors say it has improved, not least as a result of Dr Edkins's "outstanding" leadership.

Salford was at the centre of a storm last April after a ten-year-old boy was hauled before a court for allegedly calling an 11-year-old mixed race pupil a 'Paki' and 'Bin Laden' in a playground argument at a primary school in Irlam.

When the case came before District Judge Jonathan Finestein he said the decision to prosecute showed "how stupid the whole system is getting".

But was himself fiercely attacked by teaching union leaders for "feeding a pernicious agenda" that aided the BNP.

The prosecution was eventually dropped.

Last night Robert Whelan, deputy director of the Civitas think-tank, said: "It's obviously common sense that pupils who don't speak English cause problems for other pupils and for teachers."

"I'm sure this sort of thing happens all the time, but it's a sad reflection on the school if they can't deal with it without involving the police."

"A lot of these arrests don't result in prosecutions - they aim is to frighten us into self-censorship until we watch everything we say."

Greater Manchester Police denied Codie had been kept in a cell but would not comment further.


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[cantdog]

A 14-year-old girl, Codie Stott, was assigned to a six-student group to receive tutoring in science at the Harrop Fold High School. The girl had a problem with the group because all of the other five students were Asian and only one of them spoke English. Stott told the teacher "I'm not being funny, but can i change groups because I can't understand them." The teacher then told her that she was a racist and was going to get "done" by the police. She was put in isolation at the school for the rest of the day.

The teacher filed a complaint with the police officer assigned to the school. More than a week later Codie Stott was taken to the police station and placed under arrest. Her fingerprints were taken, as was a mug shot.

According to this article in the Daily Mail, Codie was then questioned of (now get this!) committing a section five racial public order offense. She was placed in a bare cell for three-and-one-half hours. Finally she was released without any charges being brought ... but the matter is still under investigation.

Yes .. it is getting this bad. The left has unleashed the monster of political correctness on our society, and every day we learn of a new absurdity. Sure, this story is about Great Britain, but how long before this type of nonsense reaches our own schools? How long hell!! It's already here! Just look at some of the so-called "free speech" codes that exist on many college and university campuses across the nation.

You can't say anything about it, though. To dare to speak up would, of course, make you a racist right along with Codie Stott!

Why is it always such a slippery slope?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Why is it always such a slippery slope?

Why isn't it a slippery slope?

 

[R. Richard]

I don't understand why you people waste time discussing a free speech issue. If the incident went down as described, the girl was kidnapped. I can't say for sure in England, but in the United States, kidnapping is a capital crime. I would focus on the kidnapping, rather than the free speech issue.

As for the free speech issue. I used to work as a computer consultant. I can't tell you how many times I have had to spend hunched over a telephone, blocking out everything except the mangled words coming from a receptionist who was trying to tell me something in a mixture of American and some unknown foreign langauge in an accent that rendered the entire thing incomprehesible. On a couple of occasions, I have even got a corporate officer to call the receptionist and try to talk to her. The corporate officer was shocked at the image that his/her firm was presenting to callers. However, as far as I know, nothing was done to correct the matter.

 

[Liar]

Insane.

They should do more about the really badass 14 year old English girls instead...

Girl, 14, accused of supplying machine guns
By Ruth Holmes

A FOURTEEN-YEAR-OLD girl from north-west London stands accused of conspiracy to supply a machine gun capable of firing 1,000 rounds a minute.

The teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, is one of four suspects from the area who appeared at High Barnet magistrates' court charged with gun-related crimes.

She was charged with possessing two revolvers, a Mach-10 machine gun and a second machine pistol.

A 16-year-old male youth was also accused of possessing a revolver with intent to endanger life, as well as drugs and CS sprays.

18-year-old Korrey Johnson-Bell, of Westfield Close, Brent, was charged with possession of a machine pistol while Genevieve Sahel, 31, also of Westfield Close, faced charges of conspiracy to supply firearms, possession of prohibited weapons and possession of ammunition.

Their court appearance on Saturday follows an investigation by London's Trident crime unit, which handles gun crime in black communities. It occurred as five more victims fell prey to gun crime in the capital this weekend.

An internal police report, revealed by the Observer newspaper on Sunday, painted a grim picture of the surge in gang warfare and "post-code killings" in London.

The report focuses on Hackney, where father-of-two Steven Nyembo-Ya-Muteba was murdered outside his home two weeks ago after asking a gang of youths to be quiet. Steven Nyembo-Ya-Muteba was murdered after asking a gang of youths to be quiet.

It says gun and knife crime in the north-east London borough is increasing more rapidly than anywhere in the capital.

The report, written by Superintendent Leroy Logan, highlights the "terrible acts of gratuitous violence" that have afflicted the area, "ending up in young people losing their lives or being badly injured, because they were visiting the area and were known by the local violent youth, showing the serious implications of district code warfare".

The police chief points to a growing trend which is seeing gangs produce music videos, being broadcast on digital music channels, encouraging violent attacks on rivals.

The report, circulated across the Metropolitan police four months ago, warns that if "gangster glamour, was not "shattered" it would "continually end up in predator-type packs of youths committing the most disgusting acts of violence and other forms of crime".

According to the Observer, police are particularly concerned about Sky television's Channel U which is seen by some as glamorising gang culture.

Darren Platt, the director of Channel U, told the paper it had "tightened things up" and now rejected videos advocating violence and guns.

One solution put forward by Superintendent Logan is the US initiative of "street pastors".

Under the American scheme volunteers from local churches, wearing overtly religious clothing, patrol crime hotspots.

The report claims that black males aged between 13 and 19 are less likely to commit crime if they know a pastor is around.

 

[R. Richard]

Insane.

They should do more about the really badass 14 year old English girls instead...

Well, yeah. However, at least she didn't say she couldn't understand Urdu. That last has to count for SOMETHING!

 

[neonlyte]

I'm suspicious about this story - here's why.

1. It is in the Daily Mail - a newspaper that couldn't be published today as a 'new title' because of its extreme right wing views on immigration.
2. The girl is named (see Liar's post) 14 year old's have protection from being named, even the Daily Mail respects some aspects of the law.
3. The story is not carried on the BBC despite their carrying several recent cultural dogma news items: eg: British Airways ban on staff wearing an 'exposed' crucifix, the Muslim teacher sent home for wearing her veil in class.
4. It is not racist to claim you cannot discuss a project with class members if their domination of English prohibits discussion

The story does, however, usefully reinforce the Daily Mail's protestation that our schools are being 'over run' by immigrants. Some areas have very high percentages of immigrant communities, up to thirty different languages can be spoken by a single class in some deprived urban areas. Arabic is taught as a second language in some schools in UK and there are plans to widen the teaching of Muslim languages. All real concerns for the Daily Mail who would rather see immigrants repatriated.

I wonder who Daily Mail readers think will run the trains, hospitals, collect refuse and clean their houses.

 

[matriarch]

I'm suspicious about this story - here's why.

1. It is in the Daily Mail - a newspaper that couldn't be published today as a 'new title' because of its extreme right wing views on immigration.
2. The girl is named (see Liar's post) 14 year old's have protection from being named, even the Daily Mail respects some aspects of the law.
3. The story is not carried on the BBC despite their carrying several recent cultural dogma news items: eg: British Airways ban on staff wearing an 'exposed' crucifix, the Muslim teacher sent home for wearing her veil in class.
4. It is not racist to claim you cannot discuss a project with class members if their domination of English prohibits discussion

The story does, however, usefully reinforce the Daily Mail's protestation that our schools are being 'over run' by immigrants. Some areas have very high percentages of immigrant communities, up to thirty different languages can be spoken by a single class in some deprived urban areas. Arabic is taught as a second language in some schools in UK and there are plans to widen the teaching of Muslim languages. All real concerns for the Daily Mail who would rather see immigrants repatriated.

I wonder who Daily Mail readers think will run the trains, hospitals, collect refuse and clean their houses.

Thanks for this Neon, it just didn't sound right to me. I've worked in the education world, and schools in particular, and I can't think of a single teacher that would 'scream' at a pupil that way.

I don't rate the Daily Mail as a reliable source, its a trash paper, only good enough to use for my muddy boots.

Other reports I've read, say that the girl was arrested for making racist remarks TO the Asian pupils, not to the teacher about them.

I'm waiting to see how it pans out. Strikes me, there's more to this than we're being told.

Edited, because the wife found the link to BBC on line.

 

[gbarnes59]

I would not take the Daily Mail as a reliable source......

 

[R. Richard]

I would not take the Daily Mail as a reliable source......

From Matriarch's link, the BBC has essentially the same story. The main difference between the BBC version and the Daily Mail version is that in the BBC version the girl was held in a juvie facility and in the Daily mail version the girl was held in a police facility.

As an expert in the matter, let me tell you about juvie facilities. A detainee has NO RIGHTS in a juvie facility. No right to a lawyer, no right to habeus corpus [US law,] no right to have anyone notified, no limit on interrogation. PLUS, if you bust up a juvie officer, it rains police for the next hour, even if the juvie officer had it coming!

 

[neonlyte]

Thanks for this Neon, it just didn't sound right to me. I've worked in the education world, and schools in particular, and I can't think of a single teacher that would 'scream' at a pupil that way.

I don't rate the Daily Mail as a reliable source, its a trash paper, only good enough to use for my muddy boots.

Other reports I've read, say that the girl was arrested for making racist remarks TO the Asian pupils, not to the teacher about them.

I'm waiting to see how it pans out. Strikes me, there's more to this than we're being told.

Edited, because the wife found the link to BBC on line.

Thanks for the link M&M's - still doesn't make sense to me. The BBC are running the iitem with her name alleging racial intolerance. Who carries the can when someone decides the teach the 'little racist' a lesson? I find it extraordinary and odd that her name has been made public even though it is clear (ish) that her comments did not merit police action.

ETA: If Og's supposition is right (next post) - that her name came from her family - that is one stupid family.

 

[oggbashan]

From Matriarch's link, the BBC has essentially the same story. The main difference between the BBC version and the Daily Mail version is that in the BBC version the girl was held in a juvie facility and in the Daily mail version the girl was held in a police facility.

As an expert in the matter, let me tell you about juvie facilities. A detainee has NO RIGHTS in a juvie facility. No right to a lawyer, no right to habeus corpus [US law,] no right to have anyone notified, no limit on interrogation. PLUS, if you bust up a juvie officer, it rains police for the next hour, even if the juvie officer had it coming!

1. The identification of the girl and her family can only have come from the family. There is no way that the school or police would/could identify the girl to the press. So what we are reading is the FAMILY's version of events.

2. UK juvenile facilities are VERY DIFFERENT and the rules are very different. The girl could not be questioned without a parent being present. Their rights under the Children and other Acts are so extensive that child criminals can run rings around the authorities. The juvenile facility is NOT a juvenile prison but a special suite in a Police station designed for questioning children.

Even convicted child killers cannot be restrained unless absolutely necessary and the paperwork necessary after each physical restraint is enormous.

Og

 

[S-Des]

1. The identification of the girl and her family can only have come from the family. There is no way that the school or police would/could identify the girl to the press. So what we are reading is the FAMILY's version of events.

2. UK juvenile facilities are VERY DIFFERENT and the rules are very different. The girl could not be questioned without a parent being present. Their rights under the Children and other Acts are so extensive that child criminals can run rings around the authorities. The juvenile facility is NOT a juvenile prison but a special suite in a Police station designed for questioning children.

Even convicted child killers cannot be restrained unless absolutely necessary and the paperwork necessary after each physical restraint is enormous.

Og

But those are the insignificant points. The question is, did this really happen? If a 14 year-old girl was taken away by the police (I don't care if they took her to get ice cream) for complaining that the group she was assigned to work with spoke a different language than her, so she couldn't get her work done, that is beyond insane. I hope it's a made up story. There was another thread where a number of Lit regulars decried religion and how the crazy bible-thumpers were attempting to take over and destroy all of us (some indicated they felt the need to hide out of fear). I'm a lot more worried about a world where my child can be arrested for complaining (even if she said something to the students and not the teacher). Have we really come to the point where it has become a crime for kids to insult each other? Even if it's one student saying something to a group (instead of a group intimidating a lone student)?

 

[R. Richard]

2. UK juvenile facilities are VERY DIFFERENT and the rules are very different. The girl could not be questioned without a parent being present. Their rights under the Children and other Acts are so extensive that child criminals can run rings around the authorities. The juvenile facility is NOT a juvenile prison but a special suite in a Police station designed for questioning children.

Even convicted child killers cannot be restrained unless absolutely necessary and the paperwork necessary after each physical restraint is enormous.

Og

Og:
Thanks for the info. However let me correct your post. What you meant to say was "alleged child criminals." As to running rings around the authorities, I'm not sure how they staff juvie facilities in the UK, but in the US it seems to be an alternative to putting the same people in a home for the mentally retarded.

In the US a juvie prison is normally a separate facility. The goons who run the facility will attemot to use physical force on the alleged child criminals. If initial attempts at physical force fail, they will often turn hard core inmates loose on the poor alleged child criminal. The last tactic normally works, unless the poor alleged child criminal be Whi' Boy. When the encounter ends, they don't fill out no steenkin' paper work, they get a custodian in to hose down the area.

 

[oggbashan]

But those are the insignificant points. The question is, did this really happen? If a 14 year-old girl was taken away by the police (I don't care if they took her to get ice cream) for complaining that the group she was assigned to work with spoke a different language than her, so she couldn't get her work done, that is beyond insane. I hope it's a made up story. There was another thread where a number of Lit regulars decried religion and how the crazy bible-thumpers were attempting to take over and destroy all of us (some indicated they felt the need to hide out of fear). I'm a lot more worried about a world where my child can be arrested for complaining (even if she said something to the students and not the teacher). Have we really come to the point where it has become a crime for kids to insult each other? Even if it's one student saying something to a group (instead of a group intimidating a lone student)?

If she was taken away by the Police, instead of being interviewed by a Police officer at the school, it was probably for something very different from that reported. The report is not consistent with my understanding of UK law. I suspect that the FAMILY is alleging that this happened to cover up another offence the girl is accused of.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

Og:
Thanks for the info. However let me correct your post. What you meant to say was "alleged child criminals." As to running rings around the authorities, I'm not sure how they staff juvie facilities in the UK, but in the US it seems to be an alternative to putting the same people in a home for the mentally retarded.

In the US a juvie prison is normally a separate facility. The goons who run the facility will attemot to use physical force on the alleged child criminals. If initial attempts at physical force fail, they will often turn hard core inmates loose on the poor alleged child criminal. The last tactic normally works, unless the poor alleged child criminal be Whi' Boy. When the encounter ends, they don't fill out no steenkin' paper work, they get a custodian in to hose down the area.

No. I didn't mean 'alleged child criminals'. I meant CONVICTED child criminals accused of a further crime can still be treated with kid gloves even when everyone knows that they did the crime and were perhaps caught redhanded.

Secure units for children in the UK are run by social workers, not prison staff. Physical force is not permitted unless the child is in danger of harming itself or another inmate.

Og

 

[Retrieval]

I've seen a few people in here referring to the BBC, well let me tell you about the BBC... every time there is a racist attack against a black or Asian person they run it over everyone of there stations for days. But every racist attack against a white person(and there have been many) goes completely unmentioned, if you're lucky you might find it on one of their web sites but you will never see these attacks reported on TV or in the national papers. Everybody in here needs to ask themselves why this is.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I've seen a few people in here referring to the BBC, well let me tell you about the BBC... every time there is a racist attack against a black or Asian person they run it over everyone of there stations for days. But every racist attack against a white person(and there have been many) goes completely unmentioned, if you're lucky you might find it on one of their web sites but you will never see these attacks reported on TV or in the national papers. Everybody in here needs to ask themselves why this is.

Uh, government run TV and Radio has it's advantages?

 

[R. Richard]

No. I didn't mean 'alleged child criminals'. I meant CONVICTED child criminals accused of a further crime can still be treated with kid gloves even when everyone knows that they did the crime and were perhaps caught redhanded.

Secure units for children in the UK are run by social workers, not prison staff. Physical force is not permitted unless the child is in danger of harming itself or another inmate.

Og

It would appear that the UK is light years ahead of the US in juvie prisons. It is possible for a juvenile in the US to be "convicted" and imprisoned without the formality of an open trail. The juvenile is often "represented" by a lawyer who has no contact with the child before they "march the guilty bastard in." The evidence is often presented by another juvenile inmate and would have no standing in an open court trial.

Secure units for children in the US are run by ANTI-SOCIAL workers, not prison staff. Physical force is routinely used, although not permitted under law. A juvenile killer, who has been caught red-handed typically receives 90 days or less.

If I had it to do over again, I would definitely have preferred to be in a UK juvie facility. It sounds very civilized.

 

[neonlyte]

Uh, government run TV and Radio has it's advantages?

Not government run Zeb - many of the biggest problems for the BBC in recent years has come from their reporting what government is actually doing rather than what they would prefer to be thought of as doing.

An answer for Retrieval - 'minority' attacks on the cultural majority is a can of worms no body wants to touch. To begin with, how would they report such a story without carrying racism overtones?

 

[Retrieval]

Not government run Zeb - many of the biggest problems for the BBC in recent years has come from their reporting what government is actually doing rather than what they would prefer to be thought of as doing.

An answer for Retrieval - 'minority' attacks on the cultural majority is a can of worms no body wants to touch. To begin with, how would they report such a story without carrying racism overtones?

It's their duty to report such attacks, the fact that they don't is racism in itself as far as I'm concerned. If they were that bothered about it they wouldn't be reporting attacks against ethnic minorities or anything to do with religion, but they do.

 

[wazhazhe]

Free Speech on the Ropes in England

... The left has unleashed ...

This isn't about free speech and it's certainly not about politics. A teacher claims a student made some type of racist remark and a student who claims she didn't. (Apparently some racist remarks can constitute a hate crime in the UK.) The police questioned the girl and released her without filing charges. That's it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

This isn't about free speech and it's certainly not about politics. A teacher claims a student made some type of racist remark and a student who claims she didn't. (Apparently some racist remarks can constitute a hate crime in the UK.) The police questioned the girl and released her without filing charges. That's it.

Of course it isn't!