Forcing the Attorney General to accept orders that are not lawful

[gotsnowgotslush]

Sally Q. Yates defied President Trump, ordering federal attorneys not to defend the controversial immigration order issued Friday.

"In a bombshell letter to Justice Department attorneys working on cases filed by refugees and visa holders delivered around 5 p.m. Monday, Yates said she was not "convinced" about the legality of Trump's decision to block travelers from Iraq..."

Was this tweeted by Emperor Caligula Carrt, Donald, the first of his name?
The criticism named Sally Q. Yates, as being
"weak on borders and very weak on illegal immigration."

An insulting comment. How novel. (End sarcasm sequence.)

Is it possible to discuss Constitutional rights ?

At a Senate judiciary committee hearing for Sessions on Tuesday, Democrat Patrick Leahy said: “What we saw last night illustrates what is at stake with this nomination. The president’s decision to fire acting attorney general Sally Yates is shameful. And his accusation that she ‘betrayed the Department of Justice’ is dangerous. The attorney general is the people’s attorney, not the president’s attorney. He or she does not ‘wear two hats’.”

Analysts compared the firing to the 1973 “Saturday night massacre” when Richard Nixon sacked the special Watergate prosecutor, Archibald Cox, prompting the resignation of Elliot Richardson as attorney general.

Laurence Tribe, a constitutional law professor at Harvard University, told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow Show: “I think it’s historic. It certainly reminded me immediately of the Saturday night massacre. There are many differences but one is how quickly this has happened in the Trump presidency.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...s-democrats-sally-yates-cabinet-supreme-court

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Matthew Miller, a former spokesman for the Justice Department during the Obama administration, said the decision to fire Yates would have troubling consequences.

“It says that if you exercise your independent legal judgment and it contradicts what the president wants you to do, he will fire you,” Miller said. “This is a major violation of Justice’s traditional independence that will send chills down the spine of everyone there.”

Sessions recounted Bush-era Attorney General John Ashcroft’s refusal to sign off on a surveillance program deemed illegal by the Justice Department. “I hope you feel free to say no in the character of John Ashcroft and others who said no to President Nixon,” he told Yates.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-general-for-defying-order-on-muslims/515091/

 

[EternalFantasy]

The 'directives' were lawful. She got the right consequences.

 

[sr71plt]

The 'directives' were lawful. She got the right consequences.

Well, great. We were all waiting for your pronouncement.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Forcing the Attorney General to accept orders that are not lawful

. . . This really isn't a rape-fantasy thread, is it?

 

[EternalFantasy]

Well, great. We were all waiting for your pronouncement.

hehehe.. Thanks. Ok, here's the longer - however obvious - version.

she says her reasons for disobeying the executive order are: “I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right,”

No where in her oath that is stated. She is supposed to protect the constitution against all enemies. The constitution is for US citizens who abide by it, not for foreign policy.

her actions are purely political. but she says she doesn't believe the EO is lawful.

While anyone obtaining a visa to the US, or even for Canadians for ex. who don't need visas, every one knows, that even if you hold a Visa, the ultimate decision to be let into the country is with the immigration officer at the port of entry. That immigration officer can refuse entry still for any reason.

Yet, this AG decided Trump is wrong to put a moratorium on entry for a period of time for Visa holders.

it is entirely political, and she deserved her dismissal. Legally, the EO is entirely lawful, constitution wise, and procedural wise.

 

[Wrong Element]

Matthew Miller, a former spokesman for the Justice Department during the Obama administration, said the decision to fire Yates would have troubling consequences.

“It says that if you exercise your independent legal judgment and it contradicts what the president wants you to do, he will fire you,” Miller said. “This is a major violation of Justice’s traditional independence that will send chills down the spine of everyone there.”

Sessions recounted Bush-era Attorney General John Ashcroft’s refusal to sign off on a surveillance program deemed illegal by the Justice Department. “I hope you feel free to say no in the character of John Ashcroft and others who said no to President Nixon,” he told Yates.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-general-for-defying-order-on-muslims/515091/

Definitely a warning towards anyone at Justice who might be sincerely interested in looking into Russian hacking or pre-election Trump/Russia contacts.

 

[Eyereadtoo]

Definitely a warning towards anyone at Justice who might be sincerely interested in looking into Russian hacking or pre-election Trump/Russia contacts.

But not strong enough for anyone previously at Justice who might have entertained the thoughts of looking into the State Department head for housing an internet sever at home and illegally receiving and sending official State Dept. memoranda? Or that same State Dept. head using her office in a quid pro quo scheme in selling access to her as a gov't official and pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars? Or better yet, check this out, someone at Justice who actually takes voting rights seriously and indicts the entire upper echelon of the DNC for their actions in subverting a democratic primary process so only their choice gets nominated?

I had absolutely no idea who Sally Yates was until last night, but I can tell you who she is now. She was an Obama appointee, she was not going to be rehired by soon to be Attorney General Sessions, she was a cheerleader of the leftist/progressive agenda, and she is currently out of work...where she belongs. Her job was NOT to grandstand and make political points with her liberal base, and by NOT doing the job she was tasked with she got her own ass fired. As she should have been.

 

[phrodeau]

But not strong enough for anyone previously at Justice who might have entertained the thoughts of looking into the State Department head for housing an internet sever at home and illegally receiving and sending official State Dept. memoranda? Or that same State Dept. head using her office in a quid pro quo scheme in selling access to her as a gov't official and pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars? Or better yet, check this out, someone at Justice who actually takes voting rights seriously and indicts the entire upper echelon of the DNC for their actions in subverting a democratic primary process so only their choice gets nominated?

I had absolutely no idea who Sally Yates was until last night, but I can tell you who she is now. She was an Obama appointee, she was not going to be rehired by soon to be Attorney General Sessions, she was a cheerleader of the leftist/progressive agenda, and she is currently out of work...where she belongs. Her job was NOT to grandstand and make political points with her liberal base, and by NOT doing the job she was tasked with she got her own ass fired. As she should have been.

At least you admit your ignorance. Next you should get the facts right.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

"If she (Hillary Clinton) were to win, it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis."

Emperor Caligula Carrot,Donald, first of his name
November 4, 2016
Atkinson Resort & Country Club
Atkinson, NH

Emperor Caligula Carrot Constitutional Crisis#1
Emperor Caligula Carrot Constitutional Crisis#2
First Amendment Rights under Emperor Caligua Carrot

Just Emperor Caligula Carrot, and his Trump trolls, were involved.

http://dcist.com/2017/01/trump_fires_acting_attorney_general.php#photo-1


The firing of Yates represents a spectacular example of Trump lashing out at a person who has dared to assert a moral vision that conflicts with his squalid and fearful worldview. The move looks all the more gratuitous and petty given that Yates was imminently on her way out the door anyway: As a holdover from the Obama administration, she took the job of acting attorney general on an interim basis while Trump’s pick for the permanent position, Alabama Sen. Jeff Sessions, went through the Senate confirmation process.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest.html

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/28/trump_has_suspended_due_process_for_muslims.html


Customs and Border Patrol is refusing to comply with not one, but two federal judicial orders

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stop-the-constitutional-crisis_us_588fe608e4b080b3dad6fac3

Shortly after her ouster, a video segment from Yates' 2015 confirmation hearing emerged, in which Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.)—whose Senate confirmation vote to become the next attorney general is currently underway—advised the then-deputy attorney general nominee that she must be willing to stand up to the president if she was asked to carry out and defend "unlawful" actions.

"You have to watch out because people will be asking you to do things you just need to say 'no' about," Sessions said. "Do you think the Attorney General has the responsibility to say no to the president if he asks for something that's improper?"

"If the views the president wants to execute are unlawful, should the attorney general or the deputy attorney general say no?," he continued.

Yates answered affirmatively, saying she believed the role had an obligation to follow the Constitution and provide "independent legal advice" to the president.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/jeff-sessions-sally-yates-confirmation-hearing


Rabbi Jack Moline, President of the Interfaith Alliance, said in a statement: "President Trump's forthcoming executive order banning refugees and Muslims would be deeply troubling on a regular day, but he is adding insult to injury by signing it on International Holocaust Remembrance Day.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nal-remembrance-day-jews-racism-a7550491.html


A group willing to protest against the Nazi government formed around Hans
Scholl at Munich University in 1942.

The group called its publications "Flyers from the White Rose" and left the pamphlets in public spots. With the help of other resistance groups, the flyers, which included denunciations like "Every word that comes from Hitler's mouth is a lie," were also distributed outside of Munich.

February 18, 1943, Sophie and Hans were distributing the flyer at the university. Both of the siblings were discovered and arrested after she was caught throwing a pile of pamphlets from a balcony into the square below. The Gestapo, or secret police, then interrogated them.

February 22, 1943 a so-called People's Tribunal led by Roland Freisler sentenced Hans Scholl, Sophie Scholl and Christoph Probst to death. They were executed a few hours later. Hans' last words were, "Long live freedom!"


http://www.dw.com/en/sophie-hans-scholl-remain-symbols-of-resistance/a-16605080


Grandfather Drumpf


The ancestors of "anti-immigrant" crusader Donald Trump come from a small village in western Germany. The documentary film "Kings of Kallstadt" explores the modest roots of the family's real estate empire.


A documentary film called "Kings of Kallstadt" was filmed about Trump's ancestral village in 2014, well before he began his presidential campaign. In recent months the media coverage in the tiny town has only grown.

The town's former wine princess Sarah Bühler said in German that the billionaire's behavior was "Zum Fremdschämen," using a unique expression which means feeling embarrassment for someone else.

Young wine-grower Kai Weisenborn was not impressed, either. "I think the man is pretty anti-social. And that is absolutely not something that should be linked to Kallstadt."

http://www.dw.com/en/an-election-a-wine-cooler-and-ketchup-in-trumps-german-village/a-19094283

 

[daddysbaby150]

hehehe.. Thanks. Ok, here's the longer - however obvious - version.

she says her reasons for disobeying the executive order are: “I am responsible for ensuring that the positions we take in court remain consistent with this institution’s solemn obligation to always seek justice and stand for what is right,”

No where in her oath that is stated. She is supposed to protect the constitution against all enemies. The constitution is for US citizens who abide by it, not for foreign policy.

her actions are purely political. but she says she doesn't believe the EO is lawful.

While anyone obtaining a visa to the US, or even for Canadians for ex. who don't need visas, every one knows, that even if you hold a Visa, the ultimate decision to be let into the country is with the immigration officer at the port of entry. That immigration officer can refuse entry still for any reason.

Yet, this AG decided Trump is wrong to put a moratorium on entry for a period of time for Visa holders.

it is entirely political, and she deserved her dismissal. Legally, the EO is entirely lawful, constitution wise, and procedural wise.

Not only that, but this is THE EXACT SAME order that Obama used in previous years. She was looking for her 15 minutes of fame. And got exactly what she wanted, just not how she thought it would go down.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/20...m_hysteria_on_trump_refugee_order_401367.html

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/01/30/should-sally-yates-be-indicted/

 

[sr71plt]

THE EXACT SAME order that Obama used in previous years.

Ah, you swallowed (and expanded on) that Trumpian lie, did you? Perhaps you need to do a bit more looking into that--or you would if you weren't a Trump Duke/Dope. But then Trump's lie doesn't go as far as you do. He only claimed they were "similar."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ilar-to-obama-in-2011/?utm_term=.6207130913d7

That said, I've heard actual real-life constitutional lawyers who are saying the EO isn't unlawful, so that's an issue that's open for argument and I don't know whether it's constitutional or not (the closest to a challenge seems to be that wording giving preference to religions other than Muslims--and even there, they stupidly tried to apply the denial from the get go to Christians and people who had actually worked for U.S. intelligence before. Dumb).

What the firing of Yates was--as well as the willy-nilly tossing out of the EO without bothering to check everything out first--was pablum to his loony base. The EO could have gone out in some form after actually talking to a few people involved with immigration and who knew what they were talking about and he could have just waited a couple of days before he had his own attorney general.

It's all in entertainment industry and purposeful shock-and-awe mood.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

Sally Yates made a powerful statement about the profession of politics itself.

A large part of it is the ever more essential struggle to keep careerism and partisanship from blinding one to citizenship and principle.

“The acting Attorney General, Sally Yates, has betrayed the Department of Justice by refusing to enforce a legal order designed to protect the citizens of the United States,” it said. “Betrayed” is a shocking word here, particularly given the suggestion that she is indifferent to American lives, suggesting as it does that she ought to be seen as a traitor to her country, rather than a dissenter."

http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/what-sally-yates-proved-about-donald-trump


gsgs comment-

Trump betrayed America.
Trump is a traitor.

Treachery is Trump's prefered method of gaining advantage.
The men and women that Trump has gathered to be his intimate associates, are willing and ready to betray America and betray the Consitution.

Betray the people of America, because we are "these people, they don't know."
Betray the children of America. His American dream came true, and he does not care about what their dreams are.
Betray the women of America, because he is a sexist pig.


There are many old films that made an impression on me, when I was a child.
Two films make statements that apply to Trump, and the international corporations that made is possible for Trump to sit in the Oval Office

"Key Largo"

Johnny Rocco: There's only one Johnny Rocco.
James Temple: How do you account for it?
Frank McCloud: He knows what he wants. Don't you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Sure.
James Temple: What's that?
Frank McCloud: Tell him, Rocco.
Johnny Rocco: Well, I want uh ...
Frank McCloud: He wants more, don't you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Yeah. That's it. More. That's right! I want more!
James Temple: Will you ever get enough?
Frank McCloud: Will you, Rocco?
Johnny Rocco: Well, I never have. No, I guess I won't. You, do you know what you want?
Frank McCloud: Yes, I had hopes once, but I gave them up.
Johnny Rocco: Hopes for what?
Frank McCloud: A world in which there's no place for Johnny Rocco.


Born Yesterday


I don't think that Harry should talk
to you like that. You're a senator.
Well, the operation of government
is... complex.
I don't think anybody
should talk to a senator like that.
- A senator's a wonderful thing.
- Thank you.
It seems to me
that if Harry pushes you around,
he's pushing around
the millions who voted for you.
Well, not quite that many.
How many, then?
Eight hundred and sixty-three thousand,
four hundred and thirty-four.
That's a lot of people
to push around.
Why do you let him?
Who voted for him

 

[EternalFantasy]

Not only that, but this is THE EXACT SAME order that Obama used in previous years. She was looking for her 15 minutes of fame. And got exactly what she wanted, just not how she thought it would go down.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/20...m_hysteria_on_trump_refugee_order_401367.html

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017/01/30/should-sally-yates-be-indicted/

Yes indeed. Its just that Trump addressed it differently.

Obama had put restrictions but in a different manner. Iraqi refugee request were no longer processed for 6 months, and certain citizenship were not allowed entry if they had passed through those countries listed on the "ban" today.

 

[KingOrfeo]

The 'directives' were lawful.

At least one judge says otherwise and she probably knows more about the law than you do.

 

[phrodeau]

Well, great. We were all waiting for your pronouncement.

I think we've found the ninth Supreme Court Justice.

 

[RUlookingup]

Someone cut another onion for Chuck "Ellis" Schumer.

 

[Eyereadtoo]

At least you admit your ignorance. Next you should get the facts right.

You mean a fact like she got her ass fired because she was an activist for the left? There were no lies in my previous response and you know it. To paraphrase your president, "Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day we won."

Both you and Sally Yates can suck on it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You mean a fact like she got her ass fired because she was an activist for the left?

Nobody in the Obama Admin was that, more's the pity.

 

[phrodeau]

But not strong enough for anyone previously at Justice who might have entertained the thoughts of looking into the State Department head for housing an internet sever at home and illegally receiving and sending official State Dept. memoranda? Or that same State Dept. head using her office in a quid pro quo scheme in selling access to her as a gov't official and pocketing hundreds of millions of dollars? Or better yet, check this out, someone at Justice who actually takes voting rights seriously and indicts the entire upper echelon of the DNC for their actions in subverting a democratic primary process so only their choice gets nominated?

I had absolutely no idea who Sally Yates was until last night, but I can tell you who she is now. She was an Obama appointee, she was not going to be rehired by soon to be Attorney General Sessions, she was a cheerleader of the leftist/progressive agenda, and she is currently out of work...where she belongs. Her job was NOT to grandstand and make political points with her liberal base, and by NOT doing the job she was tasked with she got her own ass fired. As she should have been.

You mean a fact like she got her ass fired because she was an activist for the left? There were no lies in my previous response and you know it. To paraphrase your president, "Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day we won."

Both you and Sally Yates can suck on it.

Your first paragraph was packed with them.

 

[EternalFantasy]

At least one judge says otherwise and she probably knows more about the law than you do.

Which judge is that?


Edit: So you ppl on this site make stuff up just to appear knowledgeable?

 

[sr71plt]

Edit: So you ppl on this site make stuff up just to appear knowledgeable?

At least you do, and you seem to be a "ppl" on this site.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Which judge is that?

The federal judge in Brooklyn who entered a stay of the EO.

 

[EternalFantasy]

At least you do, and you seem to be a "ppl" on this site.

Point to what I made up.

The federal judge in Brooklyn who entered a stay of the EO.

That judge made a reasonable exception for those who were already traveling towards the US or at a port of entry when the EO was issued - coz they couldn't have known.

That does not make the directive unlawful.

That's what you have as justification for the condescension you threw my way? LOL!

 

[EternalFantasy]

Gee.. not even an apology from the above two clowns.

Well I suppose now they've earned their nicknames.