Force . . . TAKING Control

[MsWorthy]

Many submissives fantasize about being *taken*, about being forced to submit, sexually and otherwise.

And, I have had several dommes come to me in confusion and anxiety, thinking that they had to somehow make themselves act in a more forceful manner in order to satisfy this ideal of dominance.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire?

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl?

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

 

[P. B. Walker]

Many submissives fantasize about being *taken*, about being forced to submit, sexually and otherwise.

And, I have had several dommes come to me in confusion and anxiety, thinking that they had to somehow make themselves act in a more forceful manner in order to satisfy this ideal of dominance.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire?

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl?

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

Mmmm you have definitely raised some difficult issues. What is a Dom/me to do when they rely on other means to assume control? I have no doubt that there are submissives that crave this form of play. But when does it stop being play and become real? I've heard of similar fantasies that involve rape. How far do you take it? When does it become unhealthy and hurtful to the submissive and to your relationship? I think that is ultimately the line... ie when it crosses over to being something that hurts the relationship and/or the submissive. This can be a mental as well as physical form of hurt. And I know there will be some hurt, but I'm thinking more along the lines of excessive hurt (i.e., require medical attention type hurt).

1. Yes, I think a Dom/me can force a submissive to submit to them. However, when is this appropriate behavior? When does it stop being play acting? Those are the difficult questions.

2. Yes, I think it has to stop at the fantasy, role-playing point. Otherwise, how do we know this is truely what the submissive wants/needs.

3. I have no doubt that such types do exist and thrive in both healthy and unhealthy relationships.

4. I think if it crosses the lines I've talked about above then, yes it can become abuse that is covered up by BDSM.

This is my opinion of course. I'm happy to discuss further.

PBW "Oh... so you literally wanted me to rip your shirt open. Ahh gotcha."

 

[Parklife]

These are great questions... and difficult too because of the semantics involved... is 'forcing' forced if it's wanted, desired, etc.. I don't know... i get this feeling that I have gut answers but that I also can see a deeper issue which i don't have answers for at all.

Personally, I'm a 'forced' fantasy junkie... I mean, there are a lot of situations, scenarios that I fantasize about being 'forced' to do.. Do theyse count as 'forced' scenarios?? I mean, I want them to be reality at some point but I know I really would need 'forcing' to do them. Is this testing limits in a way?? When this 'forcing' does happen, how much is it 'force' if deep down i really want it to happen anyway?? Am I making any sense or am i missing the depth of the question??

I don't see force being somethign that necessarily involves physical aggression (although in some instances it does) but definitely influence.

I think for any type of 'forced' activity that, as has been stated plenty of times before, good communication between Dom/me and sub are key. At least in this respect, if the situation is talked about, a Dom/me may get an idea of what is truely desired and where the 'force' comes into play.

for some reason i don't feel like i'm making a lot of sense today... perhaps i can write more clearly tomorrow.

 

[Ghost's amaris]

Forced Submission

I do believe that forced submission can be healthfully if certain things take place.

1) That it is discussed before hand and planed on to some extent with the submissive.

2) That guide lines are set and not passed.

3) That submissive and Dom/me have complete trust in the each other and that the relationship has been built over a period of time.

4) That both the submissive and Dom/me agree on all the above.



I do agree that it can go to far if medical attention is needed either physically or phycologically. There are points that have to be respected at all times. That is for the submissives safety as well as the Dom/me's safety.

Master and I have discussed this and yes have plans on this at some point but only when we are both comfortable with it taking place and the guidelines are are followed.

Ghost's amaris

 

[Desdemona]

Many submissives fantasize about being *taken*, about being forced to submit, sexually and otherwise.

And, I have had several dommes come to me in confusion and anxiety, thinking that they had to somehow make themselves act in a more forceful manner in order to satisfy this ideal of dominance.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

Maybe. Sometimes it is hard to resist someone with a very forceful personality. I have met a few predatory types that tried to force me to submit.... I got rid of them fast. I would think that having to force someone to submit would take the pleasure out of it.

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire? For me, it is a fantasy and occurs within role play. But.... we talked it all out before and safewords, limits, etc are respected. And, yes, I would use my safeword if needed.

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl? I'm sure some do live this way. It doesn't sound very healthy to me, though.

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

There certainly is potential for abuse in this sort of scenario. I wouldn't want to live this way. Once in a while, rape role play or role playing forced submission is fun. But, doing this all the time sounds pretty non-consensual to me.

 

[zipman]

Many submissives fantasize about being *taken*, about being forced to submit, sexually and otherwise.

And, I have had several dommes come to me in confusion and anxiety, thinking that they had to somehow make themselves act in a more forceful manner in order to satisfy this ideal of dominance.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire?

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl?

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

MsWorthy,

Excellent and difficult questions you raised here, but then again, you usually do! I agree with everything PBW said in the above post. My current relationship with my gf/sub is close to this, so I will try and answer your questions from that perspective.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

The answer to this is no, I don't think a dom/me can force a sub to submit. However, once a sub has given her submission to her dom/me, and the nature of the relationship is discussed and established, then being taken at anytime could be an agreed upon act. Sort of like consentual non-consent.

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire?

I think almost all women who have these fantasies definitely do not desire to be raped. However, if a sub knows and trusts her dom/me, could she then feel comfortable being "taken" by him when he chooses? I think the answer is yes.

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl?

My gf/sub has told me that she loves it when I take her forcefully, without asking. I have on more than one occasion bent her over a table or bed and fucked her without saying a word. She totally gets off on it, and to tell you the truth, so do I.

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

No, although it certainly could become that if regular post-scene communication does not take place. Or if the "force" used is physically damaging. I would never do anything to hurt my gf, and I always apply some lubricant to my cock before I would do this to her. After she told me of her desires, and I "took" her the first time, we discussed it and she told me she loved it. She has also told me that taking her while she is sleeping so that she wakes up to me inside her is another of her fantasies, and that I can feel free to do it whenever I want.

For the record, I detest rape and think it is a horrible crime. I have had several girlfriends in the past who had been raped and know of the physical and emotional pain that it causes, and how long it takes to heal. However, the activity that I have described as I have done it seems to me to be no different than any other agreed upon scening, at least the way I practice it. Anything more than that, or if it ever was unenjoyable to her I would never do it again.

 

[Ghost's amaris]

Re: Re: Force . . . TAKING Control

MsWorthy,

Excellent and difficult questions you raised here, but then again, you usually do! I agree with everything PBW said in the above post. My current relationship with my gf/sub is close to this, so I will try and answer your questions from that perspective.


The answer to this is no, I don't think a dom/me can force a sub to submit. However, once a sub has given her submission to her dom/me, and the nature of the relationship is discussed and established, then being taken at anytime could be an agreed upon act. Sort of like consentual non-consent.
I think almost all women who have these fantasies definitely do not desire to be raped. However, if a sub knows and trusts her dom/me, could she then feel comfortable being "taken" by him when he chooses? I think the answer is yes.



My gf/sub has told me that she loves it when I take her forcefully, without asking. I have on more than one occasion bent her over a table or bed and fucked her without saying a word. She totally gets off on it, and to tell you the truth, so do I.
No, although it certainly could become that if regular post-scene communication does not take place. Or if the "force" used is physically damaging. I would never do anything to hurt my gf, and I always apply some lubricant to my cock before I would do this to her. After she told me of her desires, and I "took" her the first time, we discussed it and she told me she loved it. She has also told me that taking her while she is sleeping so that she wakes up to me inside her is another of her fantasies, and that I can feel free to do it whenever I want.

For the record, I detest rape and think it is a horrible crime. I have had several girlfriends in the past who had been raped and know of the physical and emotional pain that it causes, and how long it takes to heal. However, the activity that I have described as I have done it seems to me to be no different than any other agreed upon scening, at least the way I practice it. Anything more than that, or if it ever was unenjoyable to her I would never do it again.

You stated much more clearly what i was tring to say in my post. I was just not able to word it as well.

Ghost's amaris

 

[artful]

Many submissives fantasize about being *taken*, about being forced to submit, sexually and otherwise.

And, I have had several dommes come to me in confusion and anxiety, thinking that they had to somehow make themselves act in a more forceful manner in order to satisfy this ideal of dominance.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit? It can be done,...it has been done,...but it is NOTHING I would ever do,...and I think it IS abuse.

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire? In a BDSM relationship,...it IS a Fantasy. There MAY be some individuals who would REALLY want to experience the REAL thing, (but THAT is not BDSM).-Role play is the only SSC way to achieve the desired scene,...and a SAFE word would be a *MUST*.

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl? Your question is too vague for me to give an answer.

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover? Your question is too vague for me to give an answer.

 

[lost]

.02

My .02 from the view point of someone who has been raped, but hasn't applied BDSM in RL (yet). I may be way off here.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?
Sort of, since submission is given then is it really force? I don't think serious threats should be a part of it, ie "I'm going to kill your child/pets if you don't...." and safe words should still be an option.

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire? I guess.

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?
definately could be used that way.

 

[Rubyfruit]

I have many fantasies that revolve around being "taken," much as Zip describes doing to his girlfriend above. My fantasies are non-violent in nature.

The idea that a man takes me for his pleasure alone (at times), whenever he wants, wherever he wants and in whatever hole he wants is a huge turn on for me.

 

[WriterDom]

If it's consensual, then it is really not forced. If it's not consensual, it's kidnapping, rape, or assault depending on what occurred.

 

[~Dream~]

Re: Re: Force . . . TAKING Control

well i have lots and lots to say on THIS topic control has caused me nothing but pain and heartache .. it is EVIL period whoever wants to have it has to have a death wish i guesss...i will expand more on this after 9 pm ,you betcha I will!!

 

[Ghost_of_Winter]

Hmm..interesting series of post here. I thought I would put MY couple of cents in on the subject. I have told amaris on numerous occasions that this is NOT Burger King...you get it MY way or not at all. there are many MANY things that I do that she doesn't understand what it is or WHY I am doing it, but in the end she understands.

I do things that she don't like for good reason. I thought that a submissive's goal in life was to please her Dom/Master. Seems to me like someone isn't feeling that way. that they should be doing things for THEIR pleasure. Personally I have changed the rules as we go along with amaris. I mean if I was to demand that she comply with each and every demand and rule I have from the beginning I doubt she would have even DARED to try!

I mean if I was to have told her from the get go that she was to kneel before me and address me only as Master from the beginning I doubt she would be here.

I have asked her to do things and done things that she REALLY didn't want to do, but the reasons were very clear to me. There was a goal behind each and everything I have done.

I am going to go out on a limb here and wonder just HOW sincere someone REALLY is when they say they are submissive.

 

[Rubyfruit]

Whose post are you referring to, Ghost?

 

[serijules]

Many submissives fantasize about being *taken*, about being forced to submit, sexually and otherwise.

And, I have had several dommes come to me in confusion and anxiety, thinking that they had to somehow make themselves act in a more forceful manner in order to satisfy this ideal of dominance.

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire?

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl?

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

Forced submission is a turn-on for me, but the key to it is that it has to follow a certain setting, certain things have to happen in order for it to stay withen my fantasy and not become too much of a reality. It's certainly not something I expect to satisfy my ideal of dominance, but it does add to that ideal if the setting and person falls withen my fantasies. So I guess it really is a roleplay, even if part of my fantasy is that it isn't done always just when I want it but kind of a spur of the moment, when HE wants it sort of thing.

I don't feel that a Dom/me can force a sub to submit and still maintain a healthy relationship. I believe the sub can consent to non-consensuality as someone mentioned, but in the long run, the safewords and safety of the sub is always an issue, even if it is carefully masked to not seem that way to add to the reality of it. I have been taken before when I really didn't want it, the Dom 'forced' me to take a paddling and a hard fuck, and even though I was protesting and struggling through it all, he KNEW I was consenting, and the safeword was in place if it was truly needed. The fact that I didn't WANT the paddling and the sex right then was what made the scene as hot as it was for both of us. Rather edgy play, and definatly not how I would want to live an entire relationship, but occasionally it is thrilling.

I do know of one couple that lives what I consider an actual forced-submission lifestyle. She did consent to be his slave, but I feel he takes it much too far and she is just too scared to admit that it goes beyound submission and into abuse. He uses her in whatever means he wishes no matter what her mindframe or wants or even NEEDS are in a particular moment, and it's that disregard for her in the very basic sense that makes it abusive, the hell with Dominance. She claims that is what submission is about for her, but I have my doubts...I just don't think someone can live like that constantly and not suffer from the impact of it.

In most forced-submission scenarios, I think the major difference there is the lack of real fear for one's safety. I can be "taken" by a Dom or "forced" to do something I don't want to do (but consent to anyhow) and I know he won't harm me. In a real rape or a real kidnapping, that fear is likely the domineering emotion throughout the entire time. If that fear is ever present in a forced submission scene, I think that is a clear sign that it is abusive. If that fear isn't present, then I feel that it can be done safely and consensually...withen reason.

And that was all about as clear as mud. I need a nap lol

 

[serijules]

I have many fantasies that revolve around being "taken," much as Zip describes doing to his girlfriend above. My fantasies are non-violent in nature.

The idea that a man takes me for his pleasure alone (at times), whenever he wants, wherever he wants and in whatever hole he wants is a huge turn on for me.

I like Ruby's wording much better than mine.

Change mine to "ditto" please *grin*

 

[lovetoread]

1. Do you feel that a dom/me can force a submissive to submit?

If its agreed to in the beginning.

2. Do you feel that this is just a fantasy, and role-play is the only way in to satisfy this desire?

No

3. Are there some types of dom/me and subs who really live this way, irl?

Yes

4. Is this just another form of abuse with bdsm used as a cover?

It all goes back to what you agreed to.

If I agree to let you do to me as you wish,I cannot go back and claim abuse if I dont happen to like it.

However,if its stated clearly that I dont want something to happen and it does,than that is abuse.

There is a fine line between being "taken" which I admit is what gets me going,I have no shame in admitting that, and being "forced" to do it irregardless of what my thoughts about it is.

I think the problem comes in when you feel that you have to do it. Or that your dom/domme threatens you in some way.

Abuse is abuse no matter what sexual kinks that you have.

I not only enjoy being taken,but the rougher the better. It does not make me bad,nor the person who is doing it.

But of course these are only my opinions.

 

[Lancecastor]

Outside of role-play, I see nothing attractive in force of any kind.

Now persuasion....there's a topic I really enjoy.

 

[Ghost_of_Winter]

Rubyfruit I was making a general post there....but in MY opinion if someone decides as a subnmissive that they will do something for their OWN pleasure rather than for their Dom/Master then you have to wonder at their sincerity

 

[P. B. Walker]

I also think that just like submissives have these type fantasies, some of Switches, and Doms have the same perk. I know I've always had a thing for being dressed up in a black ski mask and sneaking into her bedroom late at night. I have one of those geniune looking buck knifes and I hold it to her throat as I wake her and tell her not to move. I tell her to be absolutely quiet still as I tie her hands to the headboard. Then I take her nightie and every so slowly cut it right down the middle, hearing her whimper and beg me to stop. And you can imagine where it goes for there.

However, this is just a fantasy... I'd never do this in real life. In fact, it's not really even a turn on unless I think about with the woman I'm with. I would never even begin to think about making this a reality unless we had talked about it at length beforehand and it was something she was not only comfortable with but was turned on by it as well.

Anyhoo... just wanted to remind ya that this doesn't have to be a one-sided fantasy.
PBW

 

[P. B. Walker]

Rubyfruit I was making a general post there....but in MY opinion if someone decides as a subnmissive that they will do something for their OWN pleasure rather than for their Dom/Master then you have to wonder at their sincerity

Ghost_of_Winter

I believe you are assuming something about Rubyfruit and her sexuality. I would agree with you when it comes to a submissive that is collared and in a 24/7 Total power exchange type relationship. However, for a non-collared submissive or even a bottom for that matter, that only keeps their BDSM to the bedroom, they have every right to have a say in what is being done to them. For example, if a submissive were not a masochoist, then there is no way you should expect them to submit to a Doms whippings. And vice versa if they are a masochists.

Just my opinion, respectfully.

PBW

 

[Rubyfruit]

Rubyfruit I was making a general post there....but in MY opinion if someone decides as a subnmissive that they will do something for their OWN pleasure rather than for their Dom/Master then you have to wonder at their sincerity

If you were speaking to me, I have never claimed to be a submissive.

I am submissive, I am not a submissive.

 

[lovetoread]

Outside of role-play, I see nothing attractive in force of any kind.

Now persuasion....there's a topic I really enjoy.

And what kind of persuasion do you use?

 

[serijules]

Rubyfruit I was making a general post there....but in MY opinion if someone decides as a subnmissive that they will do something for their OWN pleasure rather than for their Dom/Master then you have to wonder at their sincerity

Ghost,

I feel that the level of submission that a person or a couple is a better judge of their 'sincerity'. I am submissive, but it is not all about my Dominant partner and his/her pleasure all of the time. That isn't a level of submission that works for me, but it doesn't make my own level any less sincere.

 

[UCE]

I have a question related to the topic of this thread. It's something I've always wondered. Say you know a submissive whose hottest fantasy is rape. You and she know each other well, maybe you've met; maybe you haven't. She wants to have this fantasy happen to her in real life and has told you so. But how can you make it happen with somebody who _knows_ you and who would willingly go to bed with you (or is going to bed with you) in the first place? Is it still possible to rape somebody like that, or make it feel like rape to them?

I've wondered about this one for years. I've come up with a couple of half-way solutions but I want to hear others' ideas first.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Did I post one of this guy before? Well, he's such an old perv, he can stand to be shown again. I think the ass in the image belongs to Gauge, a popular teen porno star.