For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[ChloeTzang]

If you could “cite stuff out the ying yang” where I was “wrong on Biden” then DO IT or STFU and APOLOGIZE. (And, NO, President Biden NOT giving Ukraine EVERYTHING they wanted is NOT proof that I was “wrong on Biden”.)

The only real point to consider is whether President Biden or a President Harris would have been BETTER for Ukraine than President Musk (and DonOld).

President Biden or a President Harris would have been orders of magnitude BETTER for Ukraine than President Musk (and DonOld). Full stop.

LOL. The only thing I WILL give you is that Biden did one heck of a lot more for Ukraine than Trump. Who has done NOTHING for Ukraine and a fuck-ton more for Putin. And yes, Harris would been orders of magnitude better for Ukraine that Trump because she would have continued with Biden's policies because they were both puppets for the same people.

On the other hand, Trump has been magnificent for defense industries around the world. Just, NOT US defense industries

 

[Fuzzy1975]

He was equivocating his thought process not his moral compass.

he was doing what now???? fuck off ican't, you have your head so far up Trump's ass, the only time you see light is when he opens his mouth....

 

[Lazaran]

because they were both puppets for the same people.

OK then…

The puppet masters controlling President Biden or a President Harris would have been orders of magnitude BETTER for Ukraine than the puppet masters controlling President Musk (and DonOld).

 

[Fuzzy1975]

LOL. The only thing I WILL give you is that Biden did one heck of a lot more for Ukraine than Trump. Who has done NOTHING for Ukraine and a fuck-ton more for Putin. And yes, Harris would been orders of magnitude better for Ukraine that Trump because she would have continued with Biden's policies because they were both puppets for the same people.

On the other hand, Trump has been magnificent for defense industries around the world. Just, NOT US defense industries

Fuck off harping on Biden.
You were glorifying Trump right up to the moment you final understood Trump was just saying what you want to hear. Except Ukraine for you're still a Trumper....

Did Biden do enough, no, but maybe examine the why's on what he didn't do. You're supposed to be smart, be a big girl and look deeper. Maybe put yourself in Biden's place. Trying not to draw NATO or the US into this directly with boots on the ground. Not pushing to the point of Putin needing to use nukes. Placating the countries that wouldn't donate or support Ukraine.

You act like Biden could have just ended this if did X. There is no fucking way Biden could have ended it, and he didn't start it either.

 

[icanhelp1]

LOL. The only thing I WILL give you is that Biden did one heck of a lot more for Ukraine than Trump. Who has done NOTHING for Ukraine and a fuck-ton more for Putin. And yes, Harris would been orders of magnitude better for Ukraine that Trump because she would have continued with Biden's policies because they were both puppets for the same people.

On the other hand, Trump has been magnificent for defense industries around the world. Just, NOT US defense industries

Trump's only been in office for a couple of months. At least give his administration a chance to facilitate peace. Biden caused all this shit and now Trump's administration has to pick up the pieces. Trump's cabinet is perhaps the most talented I've scene in my time on this planet. Trump is getting good advice unlike Biden who will go down as the absolute worst foreign policy president in our history. Trump has ordered air strikes on the Houthis to secure the Strait of Hormuz, which will greatly help out Egypt economically which Biden never did but demanded that Egypt take on more responsibility for the Palestinian conflict.

 

[ll74]

Trump's only been in office for a couple of months. At least give his administration a chance to facilitate peace. Biden caused all this shit and now Trump's administration has to pick up the pieces. Trump's cabinet is perhaps the most talented I've scene. in my time on this planet. Trump is getting good advice unlike Biden who will go down as the absolute worst foreign policy president in our history. Trump has ordered air strikes on the Houthis and secure the Strait of Hormuz, which will greatly help out Egypt economically which Biden never did but demanded that Egypt take on more responsibility for the Palestinian conflict.

Putin caused all this shit.

 

[Politruk]

Grow up, Laz. You couldn't figure it out then and you won't acknowledge it now. I could cite stuff out the ying yang and you would simply deny reality, as you did when Biden was the figurehead.

Biden was no figurehead.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Biden was no figurehead.

Cough cough. Seriously. Guess that autopen worked itself then. LOL

 

[ChloeTzang]

OK then…

The puppet masters controlling President Biden or a President Harris would have been orders of magnitude BETTER for Ukraine than the puppet masters controlling President Musk (and DonOld).

LOL. 100% with you there.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump's only been in office for a couple of months. At least give his administration a chance to facilitate peace. Biden caused all this shit and now Trump's administration has to pick up the pieces. Trump's cabinet is perhaps the most talented I've scene in my time on this planet. Trump is getting good advice unlike Biden who will go down as the absolute worst foreign policy president in our history. Trump has ordered air strikes on the Houthis to secure the Strait of Hormuz, which will greatly help out Egypt economically which Biden never did but demanded that Egypt take on more responsibility for the Palestinian conflict.

On Ukraine, Trump has done everything he can to unnecessarily screw over Ukraine and Zelensky and conceded negotiating items to Putin before negotiations even get started.

Cutting off intelligence and military aid was unnecessary and spiteful, as was his temper tantrum in the WH meeting with Zelensky. Trump's cutting off of intelligence led to the loss of the Kursk salient, and his cutting software to HIMARS and F16's was pure sabotage. His actions led directly to hundreds of Ukrainian deaths and casualties.

On Ukraine, I think he's demonstrated already where he lies and we really cannot look forward to any positive contribution from him or his Administration. I'd be happy to change my mind for a positive outcome, but I don't believe we will see one. He's not the negotiator he thinks he is.

 

[ChloeTzang]

An article from the Daily Mail on Ukraine's new "Long Neptune" cruise missile. Zelensky has revealed Ukraine has successfully combat tested its new domestically-produced Long Neptune missile with a range of 621 miles. This puts Russian capital Moscow within its range with Zelensky saying that Kyiv has had 'significant results' on its missile programme aimed at providing its own security against the threat of Vladimir Putin.

'Long Neptune has been tested and successfully used in combat,' he said. 'A new Ukrainian missile, an accurate strike. The range is a thousand kilometres [621 miles]. Thank you to our Ukrainian developers, manufacturers and military. We continue to work to guarantee Ukrainian security.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...eveals-Ukraine-missile-Moscow-ready-fire.html

 

[ishtat]

Yep, and they won't be enough to change the course of the war which is, for all practical purposes, lost.

I disagree. Wars like this are never either won or lost, they continue by other means. Ukrainians will conduct various insurrections against the Russians for generations. Ireland versus Northern Ireland, Pakistan versus India, Turkey versus Greece, North versus South Korea, Tamils versus Singhalese. The Russians might declare victory at some point but they will have to commit to the vast expense of policing their neighbours and borders for generations. These wars of neighbours (often stoked by religion) will go on for generations.There are no winners.

All Trump had to do was continue supplying the second hand and obsolete materiel to Ukraine for a year or two and he could have bankrupted Russia totally; instead Trump has prioritized his primary role as an agent of Putin.

 

[Lance_Castro]

Putin caused all this shit.

All Trump had to do was continue supplying the second hand and obsolete materiel to Ukraine for a year or two and he could have bankrupted Russia totally; instead Trump has prioritized his primary role as an agent of Putin.

Biden and the west did a good job with depleting russia without creating the imbalance of desparation

Then again, russia also did a good job stoking the unrest that got trump re-elected

Now you see russia and trump destabilizing the rest of the free world.

Cool thing is theres a backlash against their backlash politics brewing.

Good times!

 

[ChloeTzang]

I disagree. Wars like this are never either won or lost, they continue by other means. Ukrainians will conduct various insurrections against the Russians for generations. Ireland versus Northern Ireland, Pakistan versus India, Turkey versus Greece, North versus South Korea, Tamils versus Singhalese. The Russians might declare victory at some point but they will have to commit to the vast expense of policing their neighbours and borders for generations. These wars of neighbours (often stoked by religion) will go on for generations.There are no winners.

All Trump had to do was continue supplying the second hand and obsolete materiel to Ukraine for a year or two and he could have bankrupted Russia totally; instead Trump has prioritized his primary role as an agent of Putin.

There was no conflict beween Ukraine and Russia until Russia instigated it, but you're right, now that Russia has started it, it will go on until Ukraine returns it's borders to where they were on independance. As with Mossad, the Ukrainian SBU will continue to hunt down and assassinate Russian war criminals (there are are thousands....), and seek to return kidnapped Ukrainian children, deportees and POW's. All on Putin and Russia.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I wouldn't say it's a game changer but I think we'll see more Russian refineries and tank farms going up in great balls of fire rather more frequently from now on. Russian air defense has been ripped wide open and they literally can't build replacements anythung like fast enough. Add in that Ukraine will like target the factory that builds their air defences, and.......with enough missiles, Russian industry is going to get beaten like a pinata...

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[KingDJT]

TRUMP Doing what a TRUE LEADER does! Buckle up Buttercups, he hasn't even started!

 

[Politruk]

Are the Ukrainians really surrounded?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Are the Ukrainians really surrounded?

Nope. Give me 5 and I'll post a summary.

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

Kursk

With the Trump administration undercutting Ukraine, many have wondered if the brief suspension of intelligence sharing was a factor in Ukraine’s route, or worse, if the US somehow gave the Russians intelligence. Others have asked if it is really as Trumpf was claiming, that ‘thousands of Ukrainian soldiers’ were ‘encircled’ inside Russia, and Putin should ‘spare their lives’.

None of that is true.

The collapse of Kursk had many military reasons, similar to other military reversals for Ukraine. We don’t know exactly what the objectives of the operation was, or the information Ukraine had, or the details of all the difficulties they encountered, but we can make some broad observations. Finally, there is absolutely no trace of evidence for the Russians encircling any ‘bigger’ groups of Ukrainian troops, nor for them capturing more than, perhaps, 20. The fundamental question about the Ukrainian operation in the Kursk Oblast of the Russian Federation remains that of its purpose. The few (luke-warm) attempts of the officials in Kyiv to explain it, remain anything else than ‘satisfactory’: at least, all of them are making no sense.

Therefore, persently, we can only continue guessing about the purpose of this operation.

If its purpose was to hold the ground, then taking ground that is easy to hold should have been an objective. The Seym river would be difficult to cross in a military offensive operation. Any crossing would be difficult to sustain with reinforcements and supplies needing to cross a ‘defended river obstacle’ and an enemy (Ukraine) that would be constantly bombarding any bridges, boats or amphibious vehicles. With the territory from Tyotkino to Glushkovo easily protected, Ukraine could focus on fighting for Korenevo, Sudzha and territory to the north and east knowing that their western flank was secure.

Ukraine never invaded Russia before and they had to face a lot of unknowns. One thing they knew is it had to be a surprise. The longer they planned and prepared for it, the more likely Russia would get word of the preparations. The brigade commanders involved in the operation only had three days to move from fighting at one location to crossing the Russian border. That left little time for their planning. The degree of planning at the highest levels of command is unknown, but Ukrainian soldiers were surprised that their Starlink communication systems didn’t work in Kursk. Troops movements and logistical support had to be conducted independently on local radios or with messengers until workarounds re-established network communications. This impacted the speed of the advance.

Even so, by August 13th, a week after crossing the border, they occupied a large area. They would continue raiding for a couple of weeks but by August 19th they expanded to their greatest amount of controlled territory. Reason: they have failed to secure Korenevo and enough roads to expand their logistics capabilities. As a consquence, many of units had to stop and wait to receive fuel and supplies, instead of continuing to destabilise the Russian positions through raiding behind them. As a consequence, the Russians were given enough time to establish and then expand firm frontlines, while bringing in ever more reinforcements. Moreover, on September 10th, the Russians launched a large attack south of Korenevo and blew through the positions of a Territorial Defense unit. Russian forces suffered heavy casualties, but the size of their assault was greater than Ukraine’s ability to stop it and they drove over 13 km past the front line before the lines were stabilized. The next day, Ukraine made a second border crossing at Novy Put to draw off Russian forces. A month later, the Novy Put crossing had been stagnant for three weeks while the Russians slowly ground their way south and east. They also made gains in the east along the international border.

Over the next six weeks, the Novy Put bulge was reduced, and Russians advanced against the western side of the Sudzha bulge at great cost. They also continued to push forward on the eastern side along the international border. Russia was bolstered by the introduction of North Koreans into combat at the beginning of November. Over the next two months the Russians continued to squeeze the bulge. At the beginning of February, Ukraine conducted a successful local counterattack that recovered some territory near the eastern base of the bulge. However, two weeks later, Russia took Sverdlikovo which threatened Ukraine’s main supply route. This was the decisive feat. At the beginning of March, Russia brought one of their best drone teams in to focus on any Ukrainian vehicles moving along the main road to Sudzha. A week later, a North Korean force penetrated deep into Ukrainian positions between Sudzha and Guyevo, threatening an alternate supply road. Russian forces not only infiltrated Sudzha (partially with help of wearing blue identification bands!), but also crossed into Ukraine on the western side of the bulge.

Within two days, Ukrainian forces withdrew south of Sudzha. The mass of troops that used to fight north and east of the town, had to walk over 25km on foot to the safety. Dozens of vehicles were destroyed while trying to evacuate. That said, their were no "encirclements." There were no "hundreds of Ukrainian's killed." The ZSU units fell back, albeit in haste, they lost quite a few vehicles but nothing catastrophic. They regrouped and are now in defensve positions, still inside Russia, but easily defensible.

And the front has been stable for the last few days.

 

[ll74]

Disgraceful

U.S. cuts funding for Yale team tracking abducted Ukrainian kids​

 

[RobDownSouth]

Best response to "why don't you wear a suit?"
https://i.imgur.com/1KJCbpn.png

 

[ll74]

Disgraceful

EU confirms US withdrawal from group investigating Russia's war crimes in Ukraine​

 

[ChloeTzang]

Disgraceful

EU confirms US withdrawal from group investigating Russia's war crimes in Ukraine​

All part of Trump capitulating to Putin. The latest is he wants to hand over Crimea to Russia. Two sources told Semafor that the administration is considering recognizing Crimea — the peninsula in the Black Sea that Russia invaded in 2014 ‚ as Russian territory and urging the United Nations to do the same. "Such a request would align the Trump administration with the position of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has long seen Crimea as his nation’s territory," the report said.

And.....
US President Donald Trump said Monday that many elements of a final deal on Ukraine had been agreed to but much remained, ahead of a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin. "Tomorrow morning I will be speaking to President Putin concerning the War in Ukraine," Trump said on his Truth Social platform. Each week brings 2,500 soldier deaths, from both sides, Trump said, adding the war must end now.

You can see what's happening here. Trump is noy including Ukraine in any "negotiations," and is lining up to give Putin everything he wants. Zelensky has already said they won't recognize any border changes, that's a show stopper. Trump will then use Ukraine's refusal as grounds to cut off all support. And the war will continue.....

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-ukraine-territory/