For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

[Politruk]

This thinking is tremendously dangerous. No country has ever been attacked because they were to strong. There are endless examples of countries attacked because they were to weak. Ask Ukraine about that.

The U.S. defense establishment is a whole lot bigger and more expensive than needed to protect the country. We do not need a global network of 800+ military bases. We do not need to spend as much on defense as the next 10 or 11 biggest-spending countries combined.

 

[ChloeTzang]

You have no reason at all to believe that.

LOL. No? And you're telling me that Hunter is an incredibly good artist too? Despite the fact that he hasn't sold a painting since dad retired. LOL.

 

[ChloeTzang]

We don't really need to replace it. We can safely get by with a much smaller stockpile.

Probably, but I would have no idea how to estimate that. Ukraine has pretty much taken Russia out of the running so there's that, and if we fight China it will likely be more of a naval war. But either way, we should have been clear about the actual real cost of what we sent to Ukraine, and if we wanted new stuff, we should have kept that seperate.

As it is, budgetig the way Biden and Congress did it gives ammunition to people like Trump to gaslight the uninformed.

 

[TJX]

The U.S. defense establishment is a whole lot bigger and more expensive than needed to protect the country. We do not need a global network of 800+ military bases. We do not need to spend as much on defense as the next 10 or 11 biggest-spending countries combined.

Says the guy who doesn't believe "printing" money leads to inflation or that engaging in an arms race while your financial house of cards is collapsing is not a contributing factor. You may not of noticed China's expanding military. Or North Korea's nuclear programs. Or maybe you missed a resurgent Russia attacking it's neighbors again. The world isn't getting any safer.

 

[Politruk]

Says the guy who doesn't believe "printing" money leads to inflation or that engaging in an arms race while your financial house of cards is collapsing is not a contributing factor. You may not of noticed China's expanding military. Or North Korea's nuclear programs. Or maybe you missed a resurgent Russia attacking it's neighbors again. The world isn't getting any safer.

Doesn't matter. The U.S. will never fight any nuclear power. That rules out Russia, China and NK. And we will never again fight the kind of conventional war where victory goes to the side who can put more troops in the field.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

You want to know why we’re in Ukraine…this goes a long way in explaining it.

 

[Politruk]

View attachment 2510562

We are not supporting Ukraine because of Biden family business interests. That was debunked more than 200 pages ago.

 

[HumpDayHoratio]

We are not supporting Ukraine because of Biden family business interests. That was debunked more than 200 pages ago.

Nothing has been “debunked” junior. There were plenty of politicians that used Ukraine as a money launching scheme. Some just more than others. In fact Kerry’s son was linked somehow to Pudd’n Head’s kid, but he was smart enough to back out of the deal.

I guess there is honor amongst thieves…

 

[Politruk]

Pudd’n Head

You are an idiot. Biden is a lot smarter than you, even now.

 

[ty990471]

As much as we can stomach. We may not be able to spend much more money, but we absolutely should provide intelligence support.

In regards to the budget, Medicaid and social security are the major drivers on the deficit

But that's the question... how much can we stomach? It sounds like you agree there is a squeal point where even you would say "enough." Many people, like me, feel like $150 billion plus is already there. Unless you're one who says the US should be willing to make Ukraine's defense the most important expenditure of the US, there's no amount that's objectively right. Reasonable people can disagree, so that's the discussion Congress should have. Accusing those who would set the number lower than you of being 'pro-russia' isn't helpful, because it would mean you're 'pro-russia' when your dollar limit is reached. And you're clearly not pro-russia.

Also, the fact that we spend billions on other things (especially things that directly benefit AMERICANS) isn't an argument for spending hundreds of billions to defend Ukraine. It's like a guy on the verge of bankruptcy buying a new car because the car payment is less than he spends on eating out.

The US is a debtor nation, no matter how much we like to ignore that fact. Every cent of deficit spending is a tax on our children and theirs.

Instability in the global supply chain leads to much more disastrous results in regards to the economy.


The choice for Ukraine is to defend or not defend. That happens when a country is invaded. Whether we support them or not is our choice. But nobody can force them to surrender if they want to keep fighting. The majority of their country wants to keep fighting currently

No one says that Ukraine has no right to fight to the last man. What Trump said is that the US won't fund a war to the death, and certainly won't directly join it. And people who care about human life, like me, don't want to see hundreds of thousands of deaths in a war that seems unwinnable.

Reality doesn't care who is right or wrong. An armed robber has no right to steal my wallet, but I'm not going to fight him to the death for it. Sometimes you suck it up and give up something that's less important for something more important.

To be sure, that's Ukraine's decision and unfortunately the people of Ukraine have no say since Zellenskyy has suspended elections and has assumed dictatorial powers.

 

[ty990471]

The U.S. defense establishment is a whole lot bigger and more expensive than needed to protect the country. We do not need a global network of 800+ military bases. We do not need to spend as much on defense as the next 10 or 11 biggest-spending countries combined.

Amen

 

[ty990471]

WRONG.

I stated that Putin made his INTENTIONS clear (to anyone with a functioning brain) about his designs on / ambitions involving Eastern Europe, as well as his desire to undermine (destabilize) the rest of Europe.

Here is my full comment that you alluded to:

“Putin certainly intends to take ALL of Ukraine (if traitors and cowards let him), and he has openly stated his intention on Europe (Eastern Europe so far, but the Russian propaganda operations that have undermined U.S. and other western democracies elections suggest grander ambitions.”





Now APOLOGIZE for LYING about what I stated.

TIA

Literally no one denies that Putin wants to take ask of Ukraine. That isn't the same as planning to invade Eastern Europe. That was your claim, and the link you provided (which is a political site, not a news site, but whatever) doesn't say that either.

 

[ll74]

But that's the question... how much can we stomach? It sounds like you agree there is a squeal point where even you would say "enough." Many people, like me, feel like $150 billion plus is already there. Unless you're one who says the US should be willing to make Ukraine's defense the most important expenditure of the US, there's no amount that's objectively right. Reasonable people can disagree, so that's the discussion Congress should have. Accusing those who would set the number lower than you of being 'pro-russia' isn't helpful, because it would mean you're 'pro-russia' when your dollar limit is reached. And you're clearly not pro-russia.

Politically, I think we have enough support to spend more, though the current administration has decided differently.

I am not calling someone pro Russia because of their support or not of funding. The label is due to their support of Russian propaganda nonsense.

Also, the fact that we spend billions on other things (especially things that directly benefit AMERICANS) isn't an argument for spending hundreds of billions to defend Ukraine. It's like a guy on the verge of bankruptcy buying a new car because the car payment is less than he spends on eating out.

Nope. It's a comparison. The money we've spent has gone to American companies to replenish stockpiles. The majority of support has been in the way of equipment.

The US is a debtor nation, no matter how much we like to ignore that fact. Every cent of deficit spending is a tax on our children and theirs

We have a deficit. The support of Ukraine is warranted.

.
No one says that Ukraine has no right to fight to the last man. What Trump said is that the US won't fund a war to the death, and certainly won't directly join it. And people who care about human life, like me, don't want to see hundreds of thousands of deaths in a war that seems unwinnable.

That's not what Trump has said.

Reality doesn't care who is right or wrong. An armed robber has no right to steal my wallet, but I'm not going to fight him to the death for it. Sometimes you suck it up and give up something that's less important for something more important.

To be sure, that's Ukraine's decision and unfortunately the people of Ukraine have no say since Zellenskyy has suspended elections and has assumed dictatorial powers.

Speaking of Russia propaganda.

The war has led to martial law, which is reviewed and renewed by Ukranian Parliament. (Next is May) The Constitution requires that elections be suspended during wartime declarations. Putin is an autocratic dictator. Zelensky is the duly elected President of Ukraine.

And no election would be appropriate when half its citizens are fighting, fled or under occupation by invading forces.

 

[Lazaran]

Literally no one denies that Putin wants to take ask of Ukraine. That isn't the same as planning to invade Eastern Europe. That was your claim, and the link you provided (which is a political site, not a news site, but whatever) doesn't say that either.

Cite my “claim” that Russia was “planning to invade Eastern Europe”

I’ll wait…for your APOLOGY.

TIA





Side note:

Putin’s interview with Fucker Carlson (and other comments that murderous POS has made) AND Putin’s actions speak for themselves.

Divine what Putin’s true goals and agendas are at your leisure…

 

[Philthy_Phil]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480576958_10225622109650865_1942712180085775228_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296_tt6&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=dsI1_wOcCrMQ7kNvgEzrs88&_nc_oc=AdikmhSnp78VQvONT10SkaptMwtWx_3CMIRy1vtIVfnhU7Nf_qPRTX2KCpnQak26fnU&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_gid=AwUbxhGeVyiGM0i5G3aalY9&oh=00_AYHoL9waDdlUoCL3qWFGGPkSig-cCUZI5BC7t5eFrRf4Zg&oe=67D53DFF

 

[MajorRewrite]

The US is a debtor nation, no matter how much we like to ignore that fact. Every cent of deficit spending is a tax on our children and theirs.

Are you one of the MAGAs who conveniently forgets that Trump set the record for deficit spending and growth of the national debt?

 

[TJX]

You guys don't get it. The US isn't spending money to defend Ukraine. We're spending money to defeat Russia. Russia, our mortal enemy. Russia the country who has killed more than Nazi Germany. Russia, who has nuclear weapons targeted at every major city in the western world and routinely threatens to use them. Russia, who stands for everything the western world is against. Truman got it. Kennedy got it. Johnson got it. You people have lost your way.

 

[Lazaran]

You people have lost your way.

“You people” is a scattershot statement.

MAGAts have DEFINITELY lost their way.

 

[latecomer91364]

https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480576958_10225622109650865_1942712180085775228_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296_tt6&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=dsI1_wOcCrMQ7kNvgEzrs88&_nc_oc=AdikmhSnp78VQvONT10SkaptMwtWx_3CMIRy1vtIVfnhU7Nf_qPRTX2KCpnQak26fnU&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_gid=AwUbxhGeVyiGM0i5G3aalY9&oh=00_AYHoL9waDdlUoCL3qWFGGPkSig-cCUZI5BC7t5eFrRf4Zg&oe=67D53DFF

What the fuck is that even supposed to be? I mean, I know you're not smart or clever, so maybe explain what your thread mastery is here.

 

[Politruk]

To be sure, that's Ukraine's decision and unfortunately the people of Ukraine have no say since Zellenskyy has suspended elections and has assumed dictatorial powers.

Lie. He has no more power than any wartime president of a republic, and the constitution does not allow elections in wartime.

 

[ShandyLeer]

You guys don't get it. The US isn't spending money to defend Ukraine. We're spending money to defeat Russia. Russia, our mortal enemy. Russia the country who has killed more than Nazi Germany. Russia, who has nuclear weapons targeted at every major city in the western world and routinely threatens to use them. Russia, who stands for everything the western world is against. Truman got it. Kennedy got it. Johnson got it. You people have lost your way.

It isn’t necessary to defeat Russia, what’s necessary is to deny them victory. It’s a subtle difference but possibly the difference between defusing things as opposed to triggering a wider war.

As the mineral deal shows your money is secure - but it’s still unclear why Trump keeps inflating what the US has spent by a factor of 3. It’s ridiculous, but just his way…..and the fanboys don’t mind.

This can be fixed by deploying private contractor security of the Blackwater kind for US ventures in the country provided these are bound to protect not just the facilities but the territory - it’s plainly the case the Russians will be back for more when their fucked up army has chance to regroup unless there are either US or Chinese interests preventing them.

 

[Politruk]

It isn’t necessary to defeat Russia, what’s necessary is to deny them victory.

It is less important that Ukraine should win this war than that Russia should lose it.

Lose it good and hard, in an utterly humiliating fashion.

Because nothing less will suffice to destabilize Putin's regime.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

What the fuck is that even supposed to be? I mean, I know you're not smart or clever, so maybe explain what your thread mastery is here.

https://preview.redd.it/my-own-contribution-the-jd-vance-memes-jd-humpty-dumpty-v0-aadgsdf167ne1.png?auto=webp&s=86dfb90e9a9264f19b5ce78cf586cc315b8c6c0e

 

[latecomer91364]

https://preview.redd.it/my-own-contribution-the-jd-vance-memes-jd-humpty-dumpty-v0-aadgsdf167ne1.png?auto=webp&s=86dfb90e9a9264f19b5ce78cf586cc315b8c6c0e

Okay - whatever that's about, it's apparently more Leftard idiocy in action.

Whatever, I presume you made whatever point you thought you were making to your Leftist idiot friends. Have a good time with whatever that is...

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Okay - whatever that's about, it's apparently more Leftard idiocy in action.

Whatever, I presume you made whatever point you thought you were making to your Leftist idiot friends. Have a good time with whatever that is...

u mad, trumptard?

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1As5sJ.img?w=660&h=959&m=6&x=318&y=271&s=82&d=82