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For Those Who Might Be Wondering Why We Might Be In Ukraine

ChloeTzang said:
The Trump Administration goes from bad to worse.....it's clear this is a European War now. The USA has betrayed democracy and is out of it.

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You voted for him: It’s up to you to do something about him.

If, after this BETRAYAL, the tariffs fiasco, the One Butt Ugly Bill BETRAYAL, and the JEFFREY EPSTEIN SCANDAL, etc, the "republican" & "Independent" voters who elected that racist, fascist, corrupt, traitorous, orange sexual predator, have to push the impeachment /removal.

👍

We. Told. Them. So.

🌷
 
Trump surrenders to Putin's demands for Ukraine's capitulation. No sanctions on Russia applied today despite that being another of Trump's "dead lines"

A "ceasefire" and giving up ground in return for a "promise" from Putin. Trump continues to follow the Russian narrative. "Putin and Trump will agree on peace plan and inform Zelensky." According to Trump, Zelensky should agree.

Unlikely that Ukraine will even consider this nonsense. Neither will Europe. Ukraine Army officers have already said they will not listen to any such orders. Meanwhile, Trump is legitimizing Putin's aggression.

I have no words for Trump's nonsense here. He's making a WW3 much more likely.

 
Lazaran said:
DonOld sold out the Armenians to the Azerbaijani Muslims, just like DonOld is selling out the Ukrainians to the Russia orcs.
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He did, completely. It's his speciality. Selling out America's friends. Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, the UK, Ukraine. He's turning friends into enemies or at best, neutrals, so fast it's unreal. When 911 happened, a big chunk of the Western World stepped up with military contribitions. Might now have been that large in some instances, but they all stepped up and countries like the UK made significant contribitions.

After the way Trump has backstabbed Ukraine and then his tariff wars, I really can't see that ever happening again. Trump has managed to destroy the old world order in a few months - and I saw he was talking about reducing contribitions to NATO to zero. The thing is, these things can be done, there are establishe dprocesses for revissons to tariffs and trade agreements, as well as treaties like NATO, but Trump is just throwing thoseall out the window and breaking things. He makes the "Ugly American" stereotype look pretty. LOL
 
Putin’s army bleeds for years, fails to take Donetsk region, and somehow the “solution” is for Trump to gift it to him as a starting point?

Putin’s demand in the Alaska negotiations is Ukraine withdrawing all troops from the part of the Donetsk region it still controls. It would mean giving up an area where hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians live & the heavily fortified lines Ukraine has built in the area since 2014. It would make it possible for the Russian Army to by-pass these defensive lines without any suffering any casualties at all, move 85 km to the west and then be put in an excellent position to strike against the Kharkiv and Dnipropetrovsk regions through stretches of land that have no built defensive lines at all.

Ukraine would also not receive any security guarantees at all as part of the deal, meaning that they would not receive any additional help from Western powers if Russia would decided for any reason to restart the war and start taking new territories again. According to Putin’s plan, Ukraine would have to withdraw troops from the Donetsk region just in exchange for a ceasefire. A final peace plan would first be negotiated by Putin and Trump in stage 2 and it “would be discussed with Zelensky.”

Putin is presenting the “Donetsk withdrawal plan” as a “take it or leave it” situation and plans to completely pull out of negotiations if Ukraine doesn’t accept it and will then try to get Trump to agree to placing all the blame for the continued war on Ukraine, hoping that Trump will refuse to send or sell any U.S. weapons to Ukraine for the rest of the war. Wall Street Journal is the sources for the details of Putin’s Alaska Plan.

That’s not diplomacy. We have to accept that Trump is completely in bed with Putin - he has not once helped Ukraine, and everything he has done has been designed to assist Putin.

On the other hand, Putin knows Ukraine will never ever accept that deal. It is his tactic to get the Trump to withdraw US military assistance to Ukraine, something which Trump with his shortsightedness and inability to think long term foreign policy interests is seemingly inclined to do. Putin's wishful thinking is that UKrainie losing US support (which under Trump is very much a given at this point) will secure his win. But just like in 2022 he is wrong.

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It is increasingly clear President Trump stands at a Churchill–Chamberlain crossroads.

You cannot trade another nation’s sovereignty for the illusion of stability.

His choice will decide not only Ukraine’s fate, but the future security of the United States and the free world. Sadly, it seems that Trump will choose to take the Chamberlain Road. Fortunately, Ukraine is in a better position than Czechoslovakia was, but that will in no way mitigate how Trump will be remembered.

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U.S. special envoy Steve Witkoff misunderstood Russian dictator Vladimir Putin’s demands for ending the war with Ukraine, Bild reported on Aug. 9, citing sources.

The German outlet said the Kremlin still seeks to seize four Ukrainian oblasts — Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson. According to the report, Putin proposed only a partial ceasefire, which would mean halting strikes on energy infrastructure and major cities in the rear but not a full cessation of hostilities. Bild said Washington had offered to freeze the conflict along the current front line in exchange for broad sanctions relief and new economic deals with Russia, but Moscow rejected the idea. Witkoff also misinterpreted Putin’s remarks as a concession. Specifically, he took the dictator’s talk of a “peaceful withdrawal” of Ukrainians from Kherson and Zaporizhzhya to mean a “peaceful withdrawal” of Russians from those same oblasts. “Witkoff doesn’t know what he’s talking about,” a Ukrainian government official told the tabloid.

The paper said German government officials share that view. It noted that in Europe “the impression has formed” that the U.S. side “did not itself come to a unified understanding of what is happening” during the talks. That perception, it added, stemmed in part from Witkoff, whose statements about his Kremlin meeting with Putin were seen as “confused.” To European observers, the U.S. envoy appeared overwhelmed and lacking expertise when discussing territorial issues. The outlet also reported tensions between Witkoff and U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio over Europe’s role. Rubio insisted Europeans should be involved in the negotiation process, while Vice President J.D. Vance and Witkoff wanted only to brief Europe on the outcome of President Donald Trump’s next steps. On Aug. 6, Witkoff met with Putin in Moscow. Trump later said the envoy had achieved “significant progress” in talks with the dictator.

In other words, Trump appointed an udiot who's out of his depth and now screwimg things up badly. Meanwhile, no US sanctions on Russia. TACO strikes again

https://english.nv.ua/nation/u-s-en...onfusion-in-ukraine-peace-talks-50535908.html
 
ChloeTzang said:
He did, completely. It's his speciality. Selling out America's friends. Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia, the UK, Ukraine. He's turning friends into enemies or at best, neutrals, so fast it's unreal. When 911 happened, a big chunk of the Western World stepped up with military contribitions. Might now have been that large in some instances, but they all stepped up and countries like the UK made significant contribitions.

After the way Trump has backstabbed Ukraine and then his tariff wars, I really can't see that ever happening again. Trump has managed to destroy the old world order in a few months - and I saw he was talking about reducing contribitions to NATO to zero. The thing is, these things can be done, there are establishe dprocesses for revissons to tariffs and trade agreements, as well as treaties like NATO, but Trump is just throwing thoseall out the window and breaking things. He makes the "Ugly American" stereotype look pretty. LOL
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See also: DonOld capitulating to the Taliban in Afghanistan with the "Doha Deal". And don’t just take my word for it:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna983326

And:

https://thehill.com/opinion/nationa...an-set-the-stage-for-the-afghan-collapse/amp/

😳 😑. 🤬

And to think that "some people" blamed President Biden for struggling to exit Afghanistan in an orderly fashion, considering the ABSOLUTE cluster fuck that DonOld & the MAGAt republicans left President Biden’s administration.

😳 😑 🤬

We. Told. Them. So.

🌷
 
Lazaran said:
See also: DonOld capitulating to the Taliban in Afghanistan with the "Doha Deal". And don’t just take my word for it:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna983326

And:

https://thehill.com/opinion/nationa...an-set-the-stage-for-the-afghan-collapse/amp/

😳 😑. 🤬

And to think that "some people" blamed President Biden for struggling to exit Afghanistan in an orderly fashion, considering the ABSOLUTE cluster fuck that DonOld & the MAGAt republicans left President Biden’s administration.

😳 😑 🤬

We. Told. Them. So.

🌷
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Well, you knew my views on Biden, but I have to say he's almost looking competemt compared to this shit show.

If only the Democrats weren't so retarded on illegals and all the woke nonsense.
 
ChloeTzang said:
If only the Democrats weren't so retarded on illegals and all the woke nonsense.
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🙄

That has been debunked ad nauseam.

Democrats NEVER supported "open borders" (just like Democrats NEVER supported "defunding the police") and ALWAYS deported undocumented immigrants and criminals. And President Biden WAS READY TO SIGN THE MOST CONSERVATIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM & BORDER SECURITY BILL IN UNITED STATES HISTORY - UNTIL DONOLD & THE MAGAT REPUBLICANS SABOTAGED IT (Now we have a MASSIVE "private" GOVERNMENT police force (“Gazpacho”) / detention industrial complex under DonOld & the MAGAt republicans - with a MASSIVE price tag:

  • $45 billion for building new immigration detention centers, including family detention facilities. This represents a 265 percent annual budget increase to ICE’s current detention budget. It is a 62 percent larger budget than the entire federal prison system and could result in daily detention of at least 116,000 non-citizens.
  • $29.9 billion toward ICE’s enforcement and deportation operations, increasing ICE’s annual budget three-fold.
  • Alongside this increased spending in immigration enforcement, between 12 million to 17 million people are at risk of losing their healthcare.
  • Caps the number of immigration judges to 800despite record backlogs in the immigration court system.
  • $46.6 billion into border wall construction—more than three times what the Trump administration spent on the wall in its first term, despite the failure of the wall to improve or contribute in any meaningful way to border management strategy
  • A new $10 billion fund to reimburse DHS for costs related to “safeguard[ing] the borders of the United States to protect against the illegal entry of persons or contraband.” This funding is nearly 50 percent of CBP’s FY 2024 budget. However, unlike a normal budget, this funding would provide very few guardrails and little guidance to DHS on how the funds must be used. As a result,this would become a slush fund for CBP to largely use however it determined.

😳 😑 🤬

As for Democrats supporting "woke nonsense": Democrats’ support for / defense of individual rights / considerations are NOT “woke nonsense”, as they protect / serve EVERYONE. Also: President Biden rebuffed those who wanted to include rules / accommodations for trans athletes in Title IX, and President Biden rebuffed the pro - "Palestine" crowd to the point that they voted for DonOld:

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5249686/arab-muslim-voters-dearborn-hamtramck-trump-gaza

😳 😑 🤬

Hope that ^ helps.

👍

🇺🇸

We. Told. Them. So.

🌷
 
Lazaran said:
🙄

That has been debunked ad nauseam.

Democrats NEVER supported "open borders" (just like Democrats NEVER supported "defunding the police") and ALWAYS deported undocumented immigrants and criminals. And President Biden WAS READY TO SIGN THE MOST CONSERVATIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM & BORDER SECURITY BILL IN UNITED STATES HISTORY - UNTIL DONOLD & THE MAGAT REPUBLICANS SABOTAGED IT (Now we have a MASSIVE "private" GOVERNMENT police force (“Gazpacho”) / detention industrial complex under DonOld & the MAGAt republicans - with a MASSIVE price tag:

  • $45 billion for building new immigration detention centers, including family detention facilities. This represents a 265 percent annual budget increase to ICE’s current detention budget. It is a 62 percent larger budget than the entire federal prison system and could result in daily detention of at least 116,000 non-citizens.
  • $29.9 billion toward ICE’s enforcement and deportation operations, increasing ICE’s annual budget three-fold.
  • Alongside this increased spending in immigration enforcement, between 12 million to 17 million people are at risk of losing their healthcare.
  • Caps the number of immigration judges to 800despite record backlogs in the immigration court system.
  • $46.6 billion into border wall construction—more than three times what the Trump administration spent on the wall in its first term, despite the failure of the wall to improve or contribute in any meaningful way to border management strategy
  • A new $10 billion fund to reimburse DHS for costs related to “safeguard[ing] the borders of the United States to protect against the illegal entry of persons or contraband.” This funding is nearly 50 percent of CBP’s FY 2024 budget. However, unlike a normal budget, this funding would provide very few guardrails and little guidance to DHS on how the funds must be used. As a result,this would become a slush fund for CBP to largely use however it determined.

😳 😑 🤬

As for Democrats supporting "woke nonsense", Democrats support for / defense of individual rights / considerations are NOT “woke nonsense”, as they protect / serve EVERYONE. Also: President Biden rebuffed those who wanted to include rules / accommodations for trans athletes in Title IX, and President Biden rebuffed the pro - "Palestine" crowd to the point that they voted for DonOld:

https://www.npr.org/2025/03/03/nx-s1-5249686/arab-muslim-voters-dearborn-hamtramck-trump-gaza

😳 😑 🤬

Hope that ^ helps.

👍

🇺🇸

We. Told. Them. So.

🌷
Click to expand...

And all this denial is why Vance will win in 2028
 
ChloeTzang said:
Well, you knew my views on Biden, but I have to say he's almost looking competemt compared to this shit show.

If only the Democrats weren't so retarded on illegals and all the woke nonsense.
Click to expand...
Observations:
  • Biden had a measured plan in place for Ukraine. It wasn't the one I would have preferred, but it steadily strengthened their military while attempting to weaken the Russian economy. The USA should have sent every available spare unit we had to Ukraine, along with ramping up factory production for air defense on a finance basis, a loan to be paid back. The EU should have done the same. Slammed the Russians back across the original borders and let Ukraine decimate their war infrastructure, sans our troops in that effort.
  • Trump is still trying to shake down the Ukrainians with bastardly grabs for mineral rights, giving up their land for peace, maybe peace in Alaska of all places. TACO warfare idiocy without a general speaking up against the lunacy.
  • The USA policy makers made another mistake in giving away Ukraine's protection to Putin the first time. And will do so again under this dolt of a president, the peacemaker salivating for a Nobel Peace Prize. We didn't learn then and won't realize it now. It takes a rational man in control to empower a victimized nation that is willing to shed its blood for freedom. At the very least, we should give them the weapons and sanctions to grind the purportator to a crushing end. A noose in the Red Square might be appropriate before the Hague gets to him first.
  • Thousands of Ukrainians are dead because of Putin's unprovoked war. Over a million Russians are rotting on the battlefields as well, all needlessly, because of a dictator's thirst for forging the return to a glorious old-age empire, and he at its head.
  • The Illegals, well, contrary to Trump's claims, the vast majority are not from other countries' insane, their mass incarceration releases into the USA, nor single men of military age [whatever the hell that implies] either. Yes, some criminals, yes some sensational crimes, but on a statistical average far fewer than crimes by USA native-born citizens. The point is that you can have your gripe on that, but that's the data points. Trump has found out we can't do without them: the farm workers in particular, since, as Trump said, the 'inner city people' won't go to the farms to work [we know what that implies, also.] All said and done, those illegals are not taking away Republican MAGA jobs, they are not eating the people's pets for god's sake either. They are people, real people, seeking a decent life in what we call the best place on Earth to live [maybe so before this last election cycle, I'm doubting that now, too.] Give them a path to survival and citizenship if they want that. Don't claim they are Democrats that are stealing your votes. That's just blind fearmongering. [More than half of Miami's descendants of the failed Cuban CIA-backed overthrow are voting Republican. [Damned them! LOL]
  • The WOKE. Didn't and are not hurting the economy, nor anyone's rights. Perhaps pushing too far in some fields, but those can be dealt with via Congressional acts. For damned sure, we should not be taking over universities or threatening billions of dollars in lawsuits to tell them what to teach or who to hire for those roles. What the fuck, Republicans? You wanted government out of state controls and now you want in on the educators' roles. Your leader has gone nuts, overboard, radicalized the judicial system, and you howl with glee over it. Crazy bastards and bastardettes.
What's nonsense is Donald J. Trump and his minions, his 'Elks', and his unstable mental dementia and narcissistic bent.
 
Sounds like Witkoff has no idea what he's saying or negotiating and Trump may have been misled. Zelensky has already made it plain the answer to Witkoff's nonsense is a "no" and the whole thing is dead in the water.

Trimp's going to look like more of an idiot than he already does and he will no doubt try to take it out on Ukraine and blame Zelensky.

France, Germany and the UK should make it plain to him that all he needs to do is STFU and sell weapons to Europe to hand over to Ukraine. That's all Trump needs to do.

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